The 'Holiday Plan'

scarlett2001April 23, 2008

This is rather delicate, so I will try to be subtle and not get myself kicked off the forum.

My DH and I have a successful physical side of our marriage, which is why I put up with a lot from him! (And probably why he puts up with me, as well!) However, there are some things he really likes that I don't care for too much. We compromised by agreeing that I will go along, but only on holidays. Now, I was thinking of major holidays, like July 4th, his birthday, etc.

But NO-O-O-O, he's thinking also Earth Day, Arbor Day, United Nations Day, National Nurses' Day, Administrative Professionals' Day, etc. He says a deal is a deal and I should not go back on my word. At this rate, I would even have to do what I don't wanna do on my birthday, which falls on Flag Day.

Any ideas on how to get out of this gracefully? If I just break my word, he will break his word on something else. I need female subterfuge and fast, because today is Secretary's Day and I'm still getting over Earth Day yesterday!!

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Now in my book, 'Holidays' are generally commemerated with cards, gifts, flowers, nice dinners out or other special treats. If the occasion isn't worthy of marking somehow, it really isn't a 'holiday'. Perhaps he would be willing to give you a gift of your choosing (intimate or material) so things aren't 'one-sided'.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 2:20PM
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As a sidenote (sorry to the censors if it offends), I was reading on Wikipedia the other day on the subject of euphamisms and the evolution of language and came across a trivia fact that might be on point.

From Wikipedia:

"One modern example is the word "sucks". "That sucks" began as American slang for "that is very unpleasant," and is shorthand for "that sucks XXXX," referring to XXXXatio; along with the exactly synonymous phrase "that blows",

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 2:27PM
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Hey, Sweeby, I purposely did not say what "it" was. You are jumping to conclusions. "It" could be making out on top of the toaster while wearing matching gorilla suits, for all you guys know. I'll leave the deed you are describing to Monica Lewinski. (Where is that girl when the country needs her, anyway?)

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 2:59PM
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I would just tell him he is abusing the boundaries you set. I bet he knows he is going overboard with the holiday thing, but he wants to get what he wants because its enjoyable for him (he probably believes you really enjoy the act even though you may say otherwise-I've had to deal with that issue with my husband). My husband read something and showed it to me once. He was scared it was how I was feeling and we talked about things. What he showed me was something about one person starting to feel victimized by their spouse or significant other person's...huh...intimate preferences. I don't remember the whole thing, but it talked about problems intensifying when your feelings are dismissed. It was like trading relationship needs for sexual needs. If you are doing things because you are scared of his reaction if you choose not to do it, then there is a serious problem. You should be able to communicate with him about these things and he should be respectful of your choices. It is your body and if you don't want something done to it or if you don't want to do something...then don't do it. If you are willing to compromise on something and throw him a bone- hahaha, then he needs to respect those boundaries.

I know this is a touchy subject, but your mental health relies on you dealing with this, sooner than later. I hope that he sees you as more than a person he can use for his personal pleasures. I hope your overall relationship is the important thing for him. If itis, than you should be able to work this out with him.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 3:39PM
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Not quite 'jumping to conclusions' though, admittedly, that was my first guess. Lots of other possibilities that don't really bear exploring....

Sandieanne's point about feeling burdened or victemized is an important one.

I remember a discussion with my husband a few years ago on a similar point. He used to sometimes get his feelings hurt and would pout if an invitation from him came at a time that wasn't good for me. So after a few pouts, I gave in a few times when I really didn't want to, and ended up feeling used and resentful. After stewing about it for a little while, I realized that making me feel 'used' was the very last thing Hubby would want, and that I needed to talk with him about it honestly. To his credit, he really listened. And having the ability to now say a "guilt-free no" makes it much easier to give an "obliging yes" at times when I'm ambivilent, and an enthusiastic "Yes!" more often.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 5:33PM
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Scarlett, it all boils down to how YOU feel about the situation you find yourself in. Do you have real built up resentment about this situation, if you do, then Sweeby's words show great wisdom. (as they stand on their own, they still show great wisdom !)

"And having the ability to now say a "guilt-free no" makes it much easier to give an "obliging yes" at times when I'm ambivilent, and an enthusiastic "Yes!" more often."

Do you feel comfortable saying "no" ?

I guess we all need to feel like why are in control of our own bodies, and if we can say "no" we are in control, and the marriage will flourish.

But on the other hand, you may feel that its okay to do this for your hubbie, because you want him to be happy and this makes him happy. A bit of give and take would come into play. Perhaps you could raise the goal post....only on his birthday ! You know that only comes once a year.

Interesting situation for all of us to think about.


    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 9:49PM
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"....if we can say "no" we are in control, and the marriage will flourish."

Huh? I'm sure there's logic in there somewhere.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 11:43PM
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That's if you CAN say "No" --
Where are you if you feel you can't?

    Bookmark   April 23, 2008 at 11:54PM
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Scarlett, your marriage is never dull to read about!

Leaving aside the relationship dynamics (and sex is one of those things it is a little weird to "owe" someone), I think he's taking advantage of you. Holidays mean major holidays, sheesh!

Re feminine subterfuge, I was never very good at it, but you could try killing him with kindness-- provide It (whatever It may be) twice a day, every day, until he gets overwhelmed with it. Maybe It will lose its forbidden thrill!

Asolo, I think the point was that being able to say No implies self-respect. Some people just don't have that. Sex is one of those weird things where it is both a want and a need, a mark of affection and an entry into highly personal space. I'm the first to agree that refusing your partner over long periods is just cruel. But it's also true (let me think back to those days!) that to learn to like it, you have to feel seduced rather than obliged. And honestly I've never engaged in activities I didn't like, period. At least not more than once :)

    Bookmark   April 24, 2008 at 7:13PM
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Scarlett--there's also compromise. No to the gorilla suits--but okay to the toaster.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2008 at 7:36PM
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IMHO, nobody should feel pressured to do anything they don't want to do any more than they should feel pressured to eat something they don't want to eat. (Uh oh. Was that a double entendre or something?) Seriously personal stuff. And fertile ground for serious resentment if poorly handled. If my lady doesn't want to, I'm not going to like whatever it is anyway.

Everybody has some boundary they can't make it across for whatever reason. That boundary deserves respect rather than challenge or assault.

Conversations are long as either party retains absolute veto power...without consequences for using it. Isn't that what dating's for?

On the other hand, if my lady has an itch that needs scratching.....I know somebody who can do that.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2008 at 8:13PM
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Looking at it from a negotiator's perspective, you should argue that "holidays" means the holidays you celebrate. New Years, Christmas, Valentines, Thanksgiving, (some might add Independence Day, Memorial Day, Labor Day, mothers/fathers day). I don't think birthdays and anniversaries are holidays. The absolute outside of what you should accept (the maximum) is the legal U.S. holidays as designated by Congress. Who can argue with that (other than non-Americans?). They are:

New Year's Day
Martin Luther King Day
Presidents Day
Memorial Day
Independence Day
Labor Day
Columbus Day
Veterans' Day
Thanksgiving Day
Christmas Day

I can pretty much guarantee that if this ever ends up in litigation (I admit unlikely, but this whole thread is so silly I thought I'd just mention it...) the court would say the term "holiday" means LEGAL holidays. So, he gets "it" 10 times per year. You can throw in his birthday as a bonus if you feel generous. Flag day is no dice.

Here is a link that might be useful: US Code

    Bookmark   April 24, 2008 at 11:42PM
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I don't know... I must be the only one that likes doing odd things in bed - LOL. But if there was something that I really didn't want to do, I'm not sure a holiday or birthday is going to make me do it.

I think your husband is probably joking around in a way seeing how far he can push you. Really, he can't think Green Peace Day and Doris Day's B-day are Holidays. Kudos to him for trying, though.

I really can't imagine making my partner do something they don't want to do. I guess without knowing the exact specifics it's hard to know if it's just more along the lines of being too much effort...(like dressing up in maid outfits and wigs) or if it's really participating in something you don't like. If it's just a too much effort thing, yes you can compromise and do Holidays.. but I'd define them the same way the federal government and banks define them. If it's something you really don't like or want to do, then I'd think twice about doing it at all.

Then again, it's hard to really give an opinion without knowing what you are talking about. I have to say, and this is not to start a new topic or argument... but sex and foreplay should be fun. I find people with hangups sometimes need to work on finding out why they think of sex or certain sexual acts as dirty. Granted, of course, some will cross the line. But I never really did understand people's adversion to some sexual acts. Maybe a sex therapist who could explore why you don't like the acts or even help you change your mind about how you view them would be the best route. Again, it's hard to tell without knowing exactly what you don't want to participate in. But, generally wouldn't it be great if you really did like to participate in the same stuff your husband did?

    Bookmark   April 25, 2008 at 12:25AM
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I agree with everthing carla has said.
scarlett can you please tell us what it is he wants you to do.I am so curious as to what it is.Surely its not that bad.unless its anal ,then ouch.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2008 at 9:23AM
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Tracy, No, I am not going to tell and no, it is not the Back Door!

Carla35,yep, you nailed it, he likes to push the envelope to see how much I will tolerate in everything. He drives me crazy but it is never dull with him. I confess to enjoying the game! (Oh, I will get jumped on for that.)

And, no, it is not a hangup on my part, I'm not a fainting Victorian, being forced to do anything I absolutely can't stand. I just don't get much from this particular thing and it bores me.

Asolo, I'm not sure what your last sentence means? WHO would scratch?

Sue, I think you have given me the answer I wanted! Thanks.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2008 at 12:10PM
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Scarlett, without specifying It (personally I'm having more fun with conjecture), I hope it all works to your satisfaction. I think Sue chiming in (I believe she's one of our resident lawyers, am I right?) helped establish the meaning of "holiday." I believe Asolo meant that he would be the obliging party if his SO had a fancy for something, and more power to him. Yay, Asolo!

    Bookmark   April 25, 2008 at 6:05PM
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