I think I got it - Round 2

NYMKJanuary 8, 2013

Two days I posted my original request for help on a layout. I took everyone's comments and read a bunch more on GW, and I think I now have a great layout. Please comment and tell me what is wrong with it. Feel free to criticize as much as you would like... better now that me realizing after everything has been done.

If you want to take a look at my current layout or round 1 of my proposed layout, please take a look at my original request for help.

Here is a link that might be useful: current layout and round 1

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I think it looks good. Above the fridge just be sure to build out the cabinets as far as possible so you can reach then. With a full depth fridge if those cabinets are too shallow they are useless in my estimation.

I like the banquette and am planning to put one in my kitchen as well. I think having that half wall behind one side is a good idea because it will keep it from feeling closed in. With a nice pendent light above it it will be a great spot for your family to gather.

My biggest suggestion with a banquette is that you don't skimp on padding. I'd stay away from fussy pillows for your back that I think would just be falling on the floor all the time and getting messy. I think built in upholstery for the back and bottom is best. If you want it to be comfortable and cozy for long periods of time you really need some good padding for your bum in my opinion. Also do everything you can to make the fabric as bullet proof as possible. I think a faux leather is great. Something you can wipe up and will also be easy to slid in on without wearing holes in the fabric. Even durable fabric is going to show wear and tear very quickly.

My family had a nook with banquette seating in it when I was growing up. It was such a magnet for the whole family that's why I think you want to make it as comfortable and durable as possible.

Anyway you could put recessed shelving on the full wall behind the banquette? It would be a nice place for some decorative elements, books or maybe even a small tv if you wanted one in there.

This is getting long isn't it? Almost done.

Here's a pic of a banquette I think looks comfortable cushion wise, but two things it needs are a slanted back and a toe kick. People like to be able to have their feet resting slightly under their chair sometimes and if it's too boxy at the bottom they can't do that. it think that would be restrictive feeling. A banquette is a more casual way to sit and the slanted back lends its self to relaxation. No body wants an uptight banquette.

Source: houzz.com via Jeannine on Pinterest

This pic shows a better design with a slightly slanted back and the toe tick, but that seat would get hard fast.

Source: heidifaziophoto.com via Jeannine on Pinterest

Ok. I'm done. Good Luck.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2013 at 11:55PM
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Sophie Wheeler

Mirror image the banquette so that it faces the family room and scoot it out a bit. Then you can have a bit of counter space on the banquette walls that can serve as landing space/secondary workspace to the kitchen.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 8:03AM
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You show a 24" sink base. You must mean 24 is the sink size, so you'll need to add inches for your sink base. My sink base is 28" and I don't see how you can go smaller than that and fit a plumber underneath. You can use a smaller trash cabinet to add inches to your sink base. I have a 13 1/2" cab with a Rev-a-Shelf top mount. I'm sure I've seen 15" posted in other layouts.

Looks like your fridge opening will accommodate a 36" fridge in the future? You may want to change out to a counter-depth fridge one day, so it's good to plan for it now. We debated keeping our 32" fridge and modifying the opening with a filler piece, but in the end we bit the bullet and bought a CD fridge. It's nice not to have that protrusion into the walkway. You can also reach your upper cabinets easier with a CD fridge. In a small kitchen like yours, you need to be able to use every inch of storage.

Do you need a 3-drawer base? Have you measured all your pots and pans? You don't have much drawer storage, so another 4- drawer base might work better for you. I get by fine with two 4-drawer bases besides my range, and I don't even have a lazy Susan. I like to be able to lift a pan out of the drawer without digging through nested pans.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 8:36AM
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For your corner with the 36" lazy susan, I recommend 36" diagonal corner cabinet with a super susan. This gives you full 360 degree shelves so holds much more and you don't have to be extra-careful handling a bifold hinged door like the one in your plan. The diagonal also gives you more counter space. My kitchen is smaller than yours. At first I was concerned that it would make my space look smaller, but in reality, it looks just fine.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 10:06AM
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hollysprings presents a good point about mirroring the banquette toward the family room; however, you'd need to consider whether you want the kitchen open to the living room or not.

And may_flowers brings up a good point about your sink base needing to be wider. To do that in your layout, you'd have to offcenter the sink slightly from the window because you'll infringe upon the 36" lazy susan if you distribute the extra needed inches evenly.

I also have concerns about your trash can being on the other side of the dishwasher. I have this setup currently and I hate it. I would consider putting a pull out trashcan under your sink and making the trash cabinet a 4 drawer stack where you can store cutlery, dishtowels, etc. Keep in mind it will only be 14" wide if you change the sink cabinet to 28".

If you were to change out the trash can cabinet for drawers, you might consider converting one of your other drawer stacks to a regular cabinet for more versatility.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 10:25AM
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I really like hollyspring's idea and the picture she posted. That would give you some nice extra counter space.

If you want more separation b/w the kitchen and DR and want to keep the banquette oriented as you have it shown, you can use narrow cabinetry as the back of the banquette instead of the half wall. The cabs (or drawers) could open toward the DR for storing china, table cloths, etc. Also your cabinet maker should be able to build drawers into the bottoms of the benches that pull out long ways (e.g., not toward where your feet would be.) Some call these 'morgue drawers' or 'coffin drawers' which sounds grim but are handy! :) bethv posted some helpful picture of hers being constructed (see link.)

Anyway, can you tell I feel like I could use more storage? That's why I'm looking at your banquette as potential for more storage.

Here is a link that might be useful: drawers in banquette

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 10:32AM
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jfay - my husband was initially against a banquette because he thinks they are so uncomfortable. But I think they can be very comfortable as long as they are done right. Like you said the back has to be angled, great seat and back cushions (not just fluffy pillows), durable fabric and toe kick (thanks for this one - would not have even thought of this issue).

Hollysprings - I will have to play around with that layout. thanks!

may -flowers - I currently have a 24 inch sink base with an overmount 25 x 22 inch sink in it. The sink base fits within the cabinet but if you look, you can see it extends over on the countertop. I imagine it fits because the inside of the sink measures 20 x 16. A few kitchen cabinet designers have said that I could use a D shaped sink for this cabinet base.

I need an 18 inch cabinet because I need a trash and recycle bin (we are pretty hard core about recycling). I'm hoping to have enough space under the sink cabinet for another small recycling bin. I'll have to find a small plumber ;)

My current fridge is about 32.5 inches wide but I thought you needed a bigger space for it. Will it fit in a 33 inch space? No plans to replace the frig yet. Trying to save some bucks in the reno. We also have another frig in the basement so I don't feel the pressure for a bigger frig. I'll have to look into CD fridges to see it's something we can swing. Did you buy a 32 inch CD frig? Any recommendations?

I always assumed I needed a 3 drawer base but I could be wrong. I will definitely measure. I was being lazy with this one. Thanks for making me think this through.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 10:34AM
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When designing or shoppng for the table that goes with banquette, keep in mind that it actually must be bigger than merely the measurements of the space between the two legs on the bench seat. That's because the table overhangs the benches. Look at the pics of typical baquettes to see what I mean.

Also the end chair position which stcks out into the open space will not be the most comfortable position as it will feel very exposed being beyond the wall. If it is essentially overflow seating, then no problem, but if it will used all the time then consider extending the wall (even if not the banquette) to give that seating point some sense of enclosure.

Also if your table is properly sized to over hang the banquette (see above) you may be able to have more than a single chair position on the long side. This will allow you to skip the end seat.



    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 11:03AM
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How about ... Put the pantry beside the fridge where you currently show the trash. On the oven wall, move everything down 18" to fill in the space where the pantry was. Then put the trash pullout between the lazy Susan and the 24" 4-drawer. The would make the trash convenient for use at the sink and also more convenient to the range. It will also make unloading groceries more convenient with the fridge and the pantry beside each other.

Find out the interior measurements of your different drawer stack options and measure what you will be storing in them. I had wanted to store all of our pans on edge in the drawer so they wouldn't have to stacked. Most of them fit, but the 12" skillets do not fit on edge, the interior measurements of the drawer is not tall enough. All of the other baking pans, frying pans, pots, lids, etc will fit on edge. But what to do with the 12" skillets - store them flat on the bottom of the drawer which uses too much space ? Store them somewhere else in the kitchen ? Ugh. Also, my big pots do not quite fit 2 of them in the depth of the drawer from front to back. It will fit 1 big pot and 1 med pot, but not 2 big pots. If only the drawer was 1" deeper. There is unused space in the back of the cabinet where the drawer could have been deeper. And my cabinet line allows for size customizations, so if I had known, I could have requested this.

Another thing they may have been able to do would have been a slightly lower toekick, which would have left room for the drawers to be taller. Someone on Gardenweb has done that before and is very happy with it. Another option may have been to have toekick drawers. If it was our primary residence, this is what I would have done for the 12" skillets. Plus, lots of other things would be great in toekick drawers. But, it is a vacation rental property and I just don't think the renters would be able to easily find that drawer.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 11:32AM
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This may already have been asked, but have you thought about replacing the banquette with a counter height peninsula...with seating for two on each side? If you use stools without backs (at least on the range side) you could scoot them under the counter, when you want to use the peninsula for prep. When you want seating for four, you would have the extra work/entertaining space.

I like the idea of opening the kitchen to the dining room (with that lovely slider) and getting more light into your space. Then, the peninsula will serve as a divider between the two spaces, as well as give you more work space.

Normally, I like a banquette, but with your kids getting older (and having bigger friends over) the banquette seating looks a little cramped. Just an idea :)

From Cottage house plans

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 12:58PM
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Texasgal147 - did the diagonal cabinet create any additional costs with the countertops (since it's wider at one point than the rest of the countertop)?

stacylh &may_flowers - i am going to go out and check out what undermount sinks are available for a 24" cabinet before I decide to make it bigger. Never thought of this issue because I currently have an overmount

chicagoans - I am all about maximizing storage. thanks for the tips

Liriodendrum - Thanks for the tip about the size of the table. I knew that it would have to be bigger but haven't had the time to figure out the dimensions of it. I wonder if I am going to have to get the table custom made too. I'll have to do a search on GW and Houzz to see what everyone does.

Angela12345 - that would leave me a 15" cabinet above my MW - I guess I could put my glasses in there. And then in the upper cabs, I could put a 24" and 30" above the trash/recycle and the 24" 4 dwr lower cabs. And, I really need to get all my pots and pans out to size the drawers I need. I've been lazy in that area.

lavender lass - I was originally considering knocking down the kitchen/DR wall and adding a peninsula. It's not out of the running yet, I have to run these layouts by my DH when he gets home from out of town. I just think banquette seats (when done correctly) are so much more cozy than counter height stools. We'll see what the hubby thinks.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2013 at 3:40PM
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robo (z6a)

I don't know how desperate you are for supersusan storage, but have you seen this setup?

For the truly recyclaholic. That would allow you to use your 18" drawer stack for cutlery, glasses or dishes, which would be awesome. In fact if you don't NEED that 6" utility closet, I might just push the fridge right to the end of the run and make that stack 24" - then it will hold all your dishes!

Personally, I wouldn't switch fridge and pantry unless you're going to scoot your sink over to the left. Or unless you decide to join the U crew (of 1 - me) and run a peninsula off the top wall where the fridge is.

I would consider putting the microwave back on the wall where the fridge is. Four reasons:
* convenience, to fridge and water. Snack corner!
* microwaves and coffee makers go together and seems natural to have them there.
* that stretch of counter is good landing space but I see your main prep space elsewhere (to right of sink)
* less visible from dining room.

Personally I would consider:
*pulling back the sink cabs on either side of the window 4" (so your EZ reach would be 24 x 24 and your cab to left of window would be 27")
* pulling out the cab by fridge (to left of window) a good 3" so you can comfortably stash a microwave in there.
A bit of breathing room between cab and window will make it seem less oppressive to be pulled out.
* If you do push the fridge over 6" and this is my ideal scenario, you could do a 24" pulled out to 15" with micro in it, then a 15" pushed back to regular depth over to window, and then forget what I said about making the EZreach shorter because the doors around the window would totally match.

    Bookmark   March 5, 2013 at 11:25PM
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