He bought the house because 'I' make SS uncomfortable here.

catlettuceFebruary 21, 2009

It came out today. We had a huge fight on speakerphone while I was cooking dinner. DH asked me to help with household bills here I said fine-keep in mnd he makes 3 times what I make, no problem but SS should kick in a third too. Well DH though that was terrible and I was picking on him.

He brought up how he supported me including paying my bills while I was off work a yr & a half. I agreed and said he was also supporting SS & GS this whole time and never asked him to help with any bills. I also have paid for our health ins 6.5out of the 8 yr.s we have been together and still do.

It go really ugly with me having a complete meltdown & screaming into the phone. He brought up the new house and how much he was putting int othat etc. I told him to never throw that in my face again or I would sign it over and walk away. He wanted to do the house thing not me. Anyway, lots was said, including him bring up my son living here and not paying bills-he moved out when he was 20!

One thing in the whole ugly throw down that is sticking with me now is he said "I bouht this house to seperate you from each other because your b****ing is making him uncomfortable and he wants to get an apt." Ummm, ok how about how him & the kid moving in here made ME uncomfortable? How about ME, do I count? So effectively he got this house, not for a fresh start for us but to make it easier on his son so he doesn't have to listen to me *i*ch about cleaning up his crap every day.

Just where do my feelings fit in here? I told him your son/kids is not theproblem YOU are! I have never in my life lost it like this ever and an hour later I am still so angry I am shaking inside. I'm supposed to go on vacation with him now in a week? How can we do that if we are so broke? I am so furious. To me he bought that house for SS, not us, and certainly not me. I don't want a thing to do with it anymore.


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pardon my poor spelling, I am absolutely infuriated and I'm sure it spills over into my writing.

I think it is tme for DH & I to seperate. Perhaps time apart while he does whatever needs to be done to the house will do us good. Obviously if "I" am the one making everyone uncomfortable then "I" should be the one to leave. Immediately if not sooner.

I am so angry I am having trouble verbalizing it. He said when we got together I agreed that I would handle the household bills and he would do the mortgage etc. I said true, but I did not agree to support an adult child with a kidthat is fully capable of supporting himself! Unreal. I still cannot believe it. I have no problem helping out with the bills but I have a HUGE problem supporting SS while he is living scott free and not even paying his car payment on time. DH still pays his cell bill.

Um, Hello? Am I crazy or is this insanity??

    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 4:41PM
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I have read a little of the other threads that you have posted. I am very sorry for your situation.

You are not crazy. What was said about the house was cruel and IMHO changes everything. Some things can be forgiven but never forgotten and never moved past. It would be a defining moment for me in my marriage if my husband had sad that to me. I am not urging you to divorce. That is solely between you and you mate.

What we hope for and need in a marriage is to have a mate that puts our needs before their own. Someone that would rather suffer the hurt themselves than to cause you to feel it. We need someone to put us first, someone to have the desire to take care of us and someone that is uncomfortable when we are unhappy. Not because we complain but because our happiness in life is so close to their hearts and their happiness that they almost cannot be separated.

I would be hurt, deeply. I would probably want to be alone. I certainly would not understand putting a capable young adult males bad habits and immaturity above my spouse.

I will pray for you. I'm very sorry.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 8:28PM
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Thank you. I need all prayers @ good vibes I can get .

    Bookmark   February 21, 2009 at 10:53PM
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Oh Cat, I'm so sorry you're in this situation. It sounds like your husband is being a real jerk. How a spouse can complain about supporting a sick partner while enabling an adult child who could work if he chose to is beyond me. He clearly has put his son and grandson ahead of you, which is sad. Ans as for "your b*tching making his son uncomfortable and wanting to get an apt"- fine! It should! If he's not contributing to the household either financially or in help around the house, not studying or sick, he SHOULD be in his own apt, paid for by himself. That's what ADULTS do.
I hope you can find happiness.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 4:08AM
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Thanks. Keep in mind the whole convo went south went I asked about SS kicking in some $ towards the bills. He's not a kid anymore, bring home a decent wage and spending it on what he wants. I don't feel it is a unreasonable request but DH does.

Also he is very concerned about me making SS uncomfortable living here, but is not concerned with my comfort at all!!

The more I stew on this the angrier I get. I will give him "rent" money today. He can do with it what he wants.

It makes me so angry I am expected to help support a able bodied adult that is not expected to support himself. Esp after my son not workng for 6 months at age 19 I gave hime the boot when he hit 20. Best thing I ever did for him. What am I supposed to be an everflowing breast here?

My son hasn't lived here since age of 20, yet he brings him into it and ow we supported him. Yea, when he was a KID. I am not asking anything of his kid that I would demand from my own. I have no repsect here.

    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 9:06AM
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Ugh, I am just so sad,drained & tired now. I've stayed in bed all weekend.
What a sucky weekend.

Of course now everyone is on their best tip top behavior. But now that I know no one gives a crap about my feelings or if I'm uncomfortable in this situation I just feel horrible.

What I can't figure out is if I make his children so uncomfortable that he feels compelled to buy a home to seperate us then why would he want to stay married to me?

I don't get it. I'm tired.

I just want to disappear. How am I ever suppsed to feel that I matter and I'm important to this man?

    Bookmark   February 22, 2009 at 9:26PM
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Cat... On the other post for you titled: "Cat-What did you do about ss" I responded on Thurs. Jan.22 11:24. Perhaps it will still help in some way. Could you re-read it?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 6:53AM
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Oh Cat, I am so sorry to hear this....I have been following your posts and wishing you well.....I had hoped that things had improved for YOU....but sounds like his only concern was the SS. Sorry as I am to say it, I think it is time for you to cut your losses and move on with your own life.....he will never choose you over his son...and you don't deserve to be "second" all of your married life! If he bought the house in your name....and you want to....keep it....fix it up and make it your own...if you can feel comfortable living in it now. You deserve that house for all he has put you through~~~~ Take care of yourself.....first and most important~~ Keep us posted and God bless you and your decisions that you must make.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 10:46AM
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This man is crippling his son..and he doesn't see it.

Cat, please scream all you want here..it won't do any good insofar as communicating with your husband. All they hear is the screaming, not the words. Then you and your
"b!tching" are blamed as the cause of the problems. I know it's very hard to stay cool when the emotions are boiling over.

This situation is so toxic. Best to remove yourself, even if it is only for a break. Can you get away for a weekend? A girls' night out? An afternoon? Just find something you like to do and get some "fresh air" into your life. Toxicity kills joy.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 4:42PM
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Yea either way I lose. We texted back and forth but nothing was really resolved. He asked me to be patient as he is workking very hard to get us into the house so none of this is an issue. I told him I felt I didn't count and my feelings or comfort didn't matter, he said of course it did.

I asked him why he wanted to be witrh me if I made his children so uncomfortable, he turned it around and asked me why I wanted to be with him if he makes me so unhappy-Ugh!

Because I love him. He does so many little thoughful gestures and things to make me happy. He's very thoughtful but on the biggies will not budge.

I have to concede every major issue in this marriage period. that's the way it is. I do not get a say in anything affecting how we live or whom we support for how long, period. End of story. If I want to stay married. I'm not all that sure he does anymore as quickly as he turned it around.

No progress here. He's angry & sad-I'm angry & sad.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 5:06PM
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"he is working very hard to get us into the house"

Yeah. His son really needs a break!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 5:16PM
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I am sorry. I hate repeating same thing but maybe you need to separate. don't rush with divorce, but seperate and see how you feel on your own. It doesn't sound good, you don't need this stress.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 8:28PM
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Am I crazy? I do believe he truly loves me but he is torn. He is angry with me now or hurt, not talking. I am so sad over this. I don't want his kids to hate me or to lose my marriage.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 8:40PM
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Sorry, wishy-washy I can't stand myself. Wondering what happened to the confident woman I used to be? Think I need to get back to coda, get some sort of counseling & get a grip. Thank you all for Listening & the Wise words. I feel so out of sorts right now.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 10:21PM
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What I have always wondered is why women swap self respect for love. Why is it that "because I luuuuve him" wins out every single time and is more important than how they are treated? All the sweet nothings, I'm sorries, and 100th empty promise doesn't change the facts. And "he loves me" does not justify or erase the obvious and repeated evidence that he doesn't or his continuous disrespect. I refuse to live my life by a man's approval, permission, or conditions. Why am I the only one? It sure seems that way to me.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 11:11PM
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Wow thermometer you hit the sore spot for me. I do feel I'm doing exactly that. I feel really beaten down buy all of it, emotionally.
Prior to this relationship I Wouldn't have ever pictured myself being like this.I think that is the crux of it, why AM I staying really? Yes I love him but I love other people too & don't live with them. I realize there is more to it since its a marriage. But you get what I'm saying.

Sorry if this comes out one long paragraph typing on my BB.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 7:31AM
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Your problem now, catlettuce, is you're caught up in it all, meaning you are unable to sort your hurt feelings from the logistics of your circumstance. That makes it doubly difficult. What worked for me was I established standards for myself beforehand to determine what I would and would not tolerate from a man and what I would do in their unavoidable event. It's like the reasons people go through training. They prepare their minds for action in unexpected events so they know what to do when the unexpected happens, rather than end up confused in the chaos of the moment. Those convictions allowed me to see through what would otherwise have consumed me completely. Executing the pre-determined wasn't completely easy because there is ALWAYS the emotional factor, but those standards were able to guide me when I was unable to see straight. After you climb out from the emotional turmoil and are of a sounder mind, just try to think about things without applying emotional attachment to them. Think about yourself, what you need, what you deserve, and what you will not tolerate when presented with situations that compromise your self worth. You will be in control of YOU, even if someone else controls the roller coaster.

Be strong.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 10:52AM
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Cat: Just let me know you read my post on the other forum titled "Cat-What did you do about SS" - The post I am referring to I entered on Thurs. Jan 22 at 11:24. There were some points on there I still think would be helpful to your situation.

As others tell you to walk away...I am going to suggest that you take a deep breath, and wait this out a bit, until you are in your new home, with your DH, and give it some time to settle out, and then see how you feel about the whole thing. From reading your posts, you are menopausal, and not only suffering health problems, but long term insomnia as well. I think everyone agrees that you needed to change your living situation, for not only your physical health, but your mental and emotional health as well. You need to heal. But you have found a man you adore. How many people actually find that? (Especially at that stage of life)? And it seems to me that most people (if they are honest) have problems of one type or another. For some, it is a MIL/FIL. For some, it is husband who can't hold a job. For some, it is financial problems. And for some, it is problems with the ex or the ex's kids. For some, it is fidelity, and for others, substance abuse.

If you walk away, what are the chances of finding another mate you actually adore? What are the chances of finding a mate you adore, with no problems?

It seems you have a husband who loves you. His weakness is not other women, it is his total inability to launch this son into adulthood, as an independent man. He is in plenty of company. If you google "Failure to Launch" or "Boomerang kids" or "Can't get adult kid to move out" there are many articles on the subject. It is a huge problem in the US, Japan, and Canada. Is your DH hurting his son? Of course. What he see's as love, is creating a situation where his son is not an independent male, but a dependent one.

If you walk, as the others suggest, you may solve some of your problems. But are you prepared for what may be several years of being on your own? Why not see how you feel once the house is finished, and you and your DH are alone for a few months...and see how this all shakes out?

People say hurtful things when they are stressed, angry, sleep deprived, and discouraged. In long marriages, there can be that roller coaster ride, where there are days when you just want off. But sometimes, if you hang in there, the sun will shine again, and it will all be fine.

I am wondering if you are in the storm, before the calm. Your DH is working very, very long hours, and working on the house too boot. It is discouraging, of course. But that day will come when you will move in, and you will both have a place of your own. And it will be quiet. And stay clean as you left it. And you will have the husband you adore by your side. And you will be able to simply relax, and find your haven in this world.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 12:16PM
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Bnice, I hope you are right, my biggest fear is that we will be happy in our new home, SS will not pay the pyt.s on the current one, it will be foreclosed on, leaving SS homeless knocking on guess who's door?

That is what I really fear as DH would never turn him away. My home or not on paper, he would be moved in while I was away at work, like this past time and the time before when he moved his GF, her kid & cat in without my knowledge or agreement beforehand.

I so WANT to be hopeful that the new house will resolve it, but have just plain run out of hope based on the past experiences. Bottom line I have asked DH what if that situation occurs in the future and his response was "Well, I can't leave him out on the street."-Ugh.

Does it ever end?

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 4:10PM
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"I've stayed in bed all weekend."
Of course now everyone is on their best tip top behavior. But now that I know no one gives a crap about my feelings or if I'm uncomfortable in this situation I just feel horrible."

This is the cycle of abuse;
when the abuser has put the victim in the hospital, or made her sick, or pushed all her buttons, then the honeymoon follows, when the abuser is sweet as pie & the victim feels like maybe it won't happen again.

but it does.

"What I can't figure out is if I make his children so uncomfortable that he feels compelled to buy a home to seperate us then why would he want to stay married to me?"

because he can get you to subsidize his/their lifestyle.

but why do *you* want to stay married to *him*?
(My guess is that, like every other abused wife, you've been beaten down so much that you doubt your own ability to live in the world without a keeper...him.)

"I just want to disappear. How am I ever suppsed to feel that I matter and I'm important to this man?"

see how insidious it is?

Your real self, your healthy self, would want him & his whole entourage to disappear!

& the reason you can't feel like you're important to him is that you're *not*, except for what he can get out of you.

This guy has drained you & will continue to drain you, & when he can't drain any more out of you...
he'll find someone else.

Get some good legal advice & extricate yourself form this nightmare.

I wish you the best.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 5:26PM
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Nope, some cannot see how insidious it is because they are afraid to be alone, and have other people telling them to sit there and take it.....take it with a grain of hope it will get better.....take it until he changes.....take it because you might never find anyone else.....take it because you might never find anyone else's abuse to adore.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 6:19PM
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Cat: Set your boundaries. Your line in the sand. If your biggest fear is that his adult son will fail to make mortgage payments, and the house will be foreclosed on, and there he will be at your doorstep, again, if that is your line is the sand, then let your DH know. At that point, he will choose either his marriage, or forever enabling his adult son, bailing him out, even at the expense of losing his wife/marriage, whom he loves.

Should your DH make that choice, then you will make yours, I imagine. Perhaps he will be supporting this son into old age. And I imagine the son will live off of him, draining his fathers retirement savings. And one day, your DH will need help, and I imagine the one that will help him will be the son who is independent, and self supporting. I don't imagine that this one will one day support his father financially. But he may care for him physically, or be there to look out for him.

I imagine your DH enjoys the company of this son, and grandson. I also imagine that he likes being needed.

Perhaps your step son can bring in a few room mates to help pay the mortgage. Perhaps the room mates can pay the majority of the mortgage, with your stepson living there for free, or next to free.

Only you know whether your marriage is worth waiting to see how this all shakes out. Your right...you could put another year or two into this marriage, and be right back where you started, with this SS at your door, and a foreclosure on your record to boot. And a DH that is simply unable to turn his son away. But I imagine that would be your line in the sand.

I do not imagine there are many women who would be lining up to share their home, and support a full grown "step" son, who even as an adult, fails to make payments on cars, etc. so they are repossessed, using whatever money he earns on "other" things. Or many women who would accept having to work to contribute to all of the bills, but the third "adult" living in the home - gets to live like a teenager, contributing nothing. I do not imagine it would go over big with many women. Your DH is not seeing this clearly. It sounds as though he is scrambling as fast as he can to make you both "happy" - and cannot understand why you cannot understand his massive efforts to show you both he loves you. I imagine it would take a professional counselor (third party) to help your DH get perspective on this. Often in a marriage, it takes a neutral person to get the other person to "get it". But often, that third neutral person, that counselor, can make all the difference.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 7:21PM
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Remember your vacation Catlettuce?
That week away (or was it two) when your health rebounded and you felt free and hopeful?
When that great weight had lifted from your shoulders for a while and you were thinking clearly?

If I recall, you had a clear plan of action then --
Something along the lines of moving out and into a place of your own,
and letting Hubby know it was because you could not and would not live in the same house as his son.
Frankly, it seemed like a really good plan.

But now Hubby has co-opted it and morphed it into something that sounds sorta the same --
but isn't.
And isn't the same in that HE's the one calling the shots, not you.
And if SS doesn't pay the mortgage on house #1, you know exactly what will happen.
You know exactly what will happen. (repeat intentional)

This isn't your plan.
This isn't your answer.
It's a Band-Aid!
And a darned expensive Band-Aid!

When what you really need is surgery.
Get control of this situation back into your own hands.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 7:45PM
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Catlettuce - I found this quote this morning dealing with an entirely different situation (thanks Carolyn Hax) but immediately thought of you --

"When you're down to two choices -- staying in the marriage on [his] terms, or leaving it on yours -- it has a way of cutting through the emotional noise."

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 9:18AM
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Catlettuce~~ I hope that you take the messages from the above posts to heart. You are being ABUSED!!!....and need to remove yourself from this situation. I once "hung on" to a 12 year abusive relationship with a "man-friend"...thank God we never married.....who sounds so much like your husband. He wanted me only on his terms....when I tried to break it off, he came back with promises, promises, promises....and I fell for it.....until one day it turned physically abusive....I knew then it was ENOUGH.... It was not easy, but oh my the relief I felt was like a ton was lifted off of my shoulders. He was bi-polar....up and down in moods...and this sounds like what he is doing to you....

You felt so good when you were gone on vacation....remember that feeling?....your health was so much better and you had a plan for getting out and being on your own....then you let him suck you back into his life. You may think you "love him"....but is it dependency instead....are you afraid of being alone?

I hate to be harsh, but I have followed your posts about this for quite awhile....and dear gal, it is time to make that break once and for all.....it will turn to physical abuse, and you don't even want to go there!!!! Take a stand and get out on your own~~~~it is time!

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 11:15AM
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I have to agree with the others that say it is time to be on your own, in an apartment of your own. Being in the new house won't make much of a difference. Your husband hasn't been willing to change even though he knows that it is hurting you in so many ways, so what difference will a new location make. Not much imo. Same problems will be following you there. I don't think you drawing a line in the sand will mean much to your husband or your SS either. They haven't considered your feelings before.
You asked "Does it ever end?"...it will when you, yourself put a stop to it. NancyLouise

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 11:32AM
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Cat, you have seen the pricetag. You have to decide if it is do-able or too steep. My guess is, way too steep.

The new house will be a panacea for all your troubles? Or will the same troubles live under a new roof?

And finally- the "threat" of leaving him and then never finding another man - big deal! Millions of women live quite happily without a man, or with casual male relationships. The days when you needed two people to walk behind the plow are long gone.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 12:32PM
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((((((((( Cat )))))))))

((((((((((((( BIG HUGS )))))))))))))))

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 2:03PM
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He would say he was abused and that I terrorize him with him with my demands and such. I'm so demanding, wanting my home the way I want it and all..

I hhear you all and thank you so much for the support, wise advice & HUGS too :0)

I made a counseling appt for Me alone next tuesday. Not up for marriage counseling at this point anymore.

I've sure got a lot to think about and do to get back to being a self confident, self assured woman again someday. I hope.

Thank you all,


    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 4:58PM
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bnicebkind says:

" Perhaps he will be supporting this son into old age. And I imagine the son will live off of him, draining his fathers retirement savings. And one day, your DH will need help, and I imagine the one that will help him will be the son who is independent, and self supporting."

How true her statement is. I've seen this happen in my DH's family. His sister has 2 sons. One of them took absolutely everything they ever had. First he took a home they weren't living in, then a place on the lake, then their money, including her retirement (convinced her to put it in his young son's name who they adored). Of course HE had access to it. Finally the nice home they were living in was gone. When he lost it for them he moved them to a nice apt. That lasted only a few months, then they had to go to a low rent place for older people with no money in a bad part of town. He wasn't satisfied with that so he got their car. All they had to live on was their social security and he had his name on their checking account and got most of it. She and her DH would call us wanting money. When my DH wouldn't give them money he knew would go to the son they then started asking for money to buy groceries. He and another sister would buy groceries for them. Meanwhile during all this the son had a condo on the beach, an airplane, bought a restaurant, etc., lived very well. Finally they both had to be hospitalized and the father died. Life insurance was of course in this son's name so his mother didn't have the means to live on her own. She managed to get the doctor to sign to put her in a nursing home, not that she was to the point she needed to be there, just didn't have an alternative. At this point the son wanted nothing else to do with her so the 'good' son that she had never had much to do with took over. Her SS check was susposed to go to him to pay the nursing home but somehow it went to the previous bank account. The 'bad' son took it, not concerned with who would pay the n.h. and that's the last she heard from him. That's been several years and he's never been to see her and she doesn't know where he is. Meanwhile it's up to the other son to take care of her needs, along with my DH & SIL. Of course they LET the son do this to them, all the while saying that he would take care of them. This is what not making your kids be independent will cause.

Sorry to ramble on but I've followed your story, Cat, and can sympathize with what you have to deal with. I don't have the answer that will fix your problem, just wanted to give my version of what can happen when kids are allowed to live off parents and not be responsible. I hope your DH wakes up in time to make his son be responsible AND salvage your marriage. I think people who are old enough to have kids are old enough to support and take care of them. It's way past time for the son to grow up. Good luck with whatever choice you make.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 5:01PM
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"He would say he was abused and that I terrorize him with him with my demands and such."

Abusers always insist, convincingly to their victims, that everything is the victim's fault.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 5:38PM
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I have to disagree with the posters here that are so convinced your husband is abusive. I dont see anything here that is abusive to me. He is caught between you and his son. While I agree that he needs to get his son out of the house and he's too old to be dependant on daddy, I dont believe he is abusing you. I looked back at some of your other posts, he seems like a genuinely good guy that tries to do the right thing, maybe to a fault.

This was one of your comments on another post.

He's a good guy, a good provider, he will do anything for y friends or his kids or family. He does think of me and picks me up little tihngs here and there. He tries to make me happy and do for me.

That is not an abuser. If Im going to brutally honest here, you do seem to bit$$ quite a bit about his son. That is probably because you are growing increasingly angry about the situation. Stop letting the son put a wedge between you and his father, and you should stop being the wedge between him and his son. All of you should sit down and calmly discuss this issue. His son needs to understand that he has become a burden. He's 29 years old and needs to start taking care of his own business. If he can go out and buy his own new truck, he can afford to pay rent. Screaming to your husband about it isnt going to change it. A calm discussion with your husband, his son and yourself might lead to a situation that his son has no other alternative then to find his own place to go.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 8:11AM
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I am in full agreement with linda. And no, he is not an abuser, but a man desperately trying to make his wife happy, (geesh...the man bought his wife a house, paid for it in cash, and put it in her name only)!!! But he also happens to be a man who is a good guy, and will do anything to try and help everyone. The problem is that he does not have it in him to throw his own son out. He cannot bring himself to do this, and as cat said, it is because he knows this son is not ready, and will end up on the street. He does not yet have what it takes to be independent.

I see a man dancing as fast as he can, working hard to make cat and son happy, and nothing is enough. Because cat wants the quiet life now with just her DH. And who can blame her?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 9:22AM
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But the reality is, cat has tried to calmly discuss the situation with her H, and he has refused to either discuss it or make any moves to change the situation of the son.
Maybe he can't being himself to throw his son out as he is not ready for independence, but he is doing nothing to encourage independence in his son so that one day he WILL be ready to move out.
So, unless he does, things will never get better for cat, no matter how many houses her H gifts her with. And she's been asked to help pay for her gift, while the son has no responsibility to contribute anything, financially or in help around the house, for his gift (free room, board and a car). That is supremely unfair and to me indicates that to her H cat is low man on the totem pole and likely to remain there. That's no place for a beloved wife.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 10:45AM
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I have to kind of shee with Linda @ Bnice in that I don't think he is intentionally abusive & I am positive he would never lay a hand on me physically. I think for me the biggest issues are he continues to enable SS @ put his emotional wants and needs way before mine & ours as a couple. I just do not think I will ever matter to him as much as his "familiy"

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 2:09PM
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"Not laying a hand on you physically" doesn't mean he's not an abuser;

some of the most exquisite torment an abuser can devise is mental & emotional.

If you don't think it's abuse, why are you so unhappy?
& if you're so unhappy, why are you still there?

"I just do not think I will ever matter to him as much as his "familiy."

You don't, & you won't, & you never have.

He's proven it to you with every move he's made, every accusation he's leveled at you, every criticism he's launched.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 2:16PM
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Linda117, if you have been keeping up, you would not have said anything you stated. I have been keeping up though I didn't comment until recently. I remember back in November or December, Catlettuce was completely outdone and had given up entirely. She was so beaten emotionally that she had no more fight left in her and couldn't even form another coherent thought about the situation because she had done and said all that she could think to do and say. Not only was she defeated emotionally, she felt unloved and unimportant to her husband. As was stated, torment is abuse because abuse comes in many forms - physical, sexual, mental, and emotional - none of which are always so pronounced and crystal clear, especially to the one being abused. The main reason is that there is always the interim - those tender moments and the nice things he does are only to keep her hanging on, giving a woman hope things will get better and false assurance that he loves her. All so he can keep doing what he is doing to her and benefiting from having her there. Linda117, I think you were trying to say he is not a horrible person. I agree, but that does not de-classify him as an abuser because he is and because she is mentally and emotionally tortured.

Also, I don't think you should tell her she is causing trouble with him and his son. The guy shouldn't be there, not under these circumstances, being that he screws up everything, moved his girlfriend and the baby in, and spends his money however he pleases, with no plan or attempt to get out on his own. The guy simply should not be there. Catlettuce should not have to put up with it and definitely should not be paying any bills there, much less be expected to pay, actually requested to pay, thereby, to contribute to the SS's behavior and maintenance. And then get insulted when she protests? No way. On top of being told "she makes them uncomfortable?" No way.

What Catlettuce wants to keep doing is bleed her emotions all over her husband, who is immune to her feelings. She wants to matter to him, but he is not capable beyond his own limitations to prioritize the concerns in his life. She wants him to consider her opinion, but he is thoughtless. She suggests counseling, but he responds by objectifying her sexuality. In other words, she does not get what she needs but receives plenty of what she doesn't need that hurts her feelings and renders her irrelevant. If you don't see a tormented woman, please tell us what you do see, and how would you define it if not abused?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 5:45PM
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Well said, thermometer~~~~ Catlettuce is definitely being abused....emotionally and mentally.....and the physical will come also. I worked with women at the shelter for the abused, and believe me, she fits that category~~~
As I said before, this "house thing" is only a "carrot" to dangle in front of her to keep stringing her along.... If writers on this site have been keeping up with Catlettuce for the many months as most of us have, you would see how down beaten she is......

Catlettuce, we are pulling for you, but only YOU can do anything about it....we have been giving you support for months to do better for YOURSELF......you just need to do it!!!!...and sooner rather than later~~~~

Good luck and hugs

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 8:13PM
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Gosh, everyone makes a lot of inferences here. Maybe Catlettuce is venting and wants an ear, rather than everyone telling her what's *really* going on.

Those who don't have stepkids or stepparents have no idea what a tough balancing act it is. Not saying Cat's partner is doing a good job (or not) just saying...

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 8:26PM
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Thermometer I read quite a bit before I posted. I also didnt say she was causing trouble. What I said was, that her DH's son is a wedge between them, and she is a wedge between her DH and his son. What I see is a woman who seems to have alot of anger towards her step son, because he is interfering with her life. It may be justified, maybe not. I dont know. What I do know is that people here are only hearing one side of the story and to tell someone they are abused is abuse in and of itself. If she is that fragile, we should not be filling her head with any ideas of what she is and isnt and what is and isnt in her marriage. Just because her DH can't bring himself to throw his son and grandchild out doesnt mean her feelings are unimportant to him. I imagine he feels that his feelings are very unimportant to her and that she just doesnt understand how hard it is for a man to throw his own flesh and blood, (grandchild included) out with no where to go. IF he did that, would that make her feel better about the situation? IF it does, then maybe her DH is the one being abused huh? There are other ways he can make her feel like she is a priority to him then making him choose between his son and her. Its abusive to make a man choose between his child and a second wife.

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 9:28PM
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No, I would never suggest he should throw his son and grandchild out of the house. Catlettuce never said that either. You say you have been keeping up with her posts, but I don't recall her saying any of this. What kind of monster would she be? What I recall is she wants DH to set boundaries for DS and rules of the house to live by. What household does not have those? And what wife should have to live in her own home with no say in the matter? She also wants him to give DS x amount of time to get his act together, rather than living capriciously and leisurely off his dad and stepmother. She is not asking too much.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 1:39AM
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You must have missed this thread or surely you would not say I am the one abusing her.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 2:39AM
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Sorry, Linda, but you are so off the mark it isn't funny. Even in this thread Cat says how her H asked her to contribute financially, and got angry with her when she said Fine, but SS should also contribute. He also complained about supporting her financially for a time when she was sick and unable to work, yet has no problem continuing to support SS and GS indefinitely when SS is able to work and choses to blow his money on toys instead of boring things like rent and car payments. SS isn't even expected to contribute assistance around the house, but I bet you whatever you like Cat is doing the lion's share of the housework. Even Cat's bedroom is not private, SS and GS have free reign there. So exactly how does this add up to Cat even being EQUAL in importance to her SS and GS, much less a priority? All she wants is to be an equal, and she's so far away from that I don't know why she doesn't just pack up and go somewhere where she WILL be treated as somone whose feelings matter, even if it is by her self.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 4:57AM
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Thermometer, actually that was the thread that was the icing on the cake for me. I think there is a lot more going on here with cat than her DH's son living in the house. I said I agree that is an issue and it should be dealt with, but abuse is not here. THe man goes to work, she complains about his job. He comes home and shows her love and she doesnt want to make love to him. She feels disconnected from him but then complains they dont do anything but sleep together. She has a part in this marriage too. Why does she wait for him to make the plans, why doesnt she make some plans of her own for him? Not just say, Do you want? How about just doing? I am simply saying, we are getting half the story here. HER HALF. WHen she talks about how her DH is towards her, what he does for her, what he buys for her etc, it seems to me the man is doing everything in his power to keep her happy and she never seems to be happy. There comes a point where you have to really look at what you're reading. He doesnt tell her too bad, it is what it is, the man is having an extremely difficult time of choosing between his son and his wife. This is not abusive, this is an enabler. So, my point is, it doesnt sound like abuse on his part, it seems like there are other issues here. I'm not here to argue. You see it your way, I see it a different way. This is the whole object of a forum isnt it? We dont have to agree with each other.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2009 at 9:39AM
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Yeah, we see things very differently. What you cite as causes, I see as being logical outcome. And vice versa. It's also weird to me that you concentrate solely on her complaints as if complaints precede and cause the problem and therefore have no basis. I do agree though that she needs to make decisions other than deciding not to make any decisions.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2009 at 10:04PM
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just had another thought that might help:

Victims always defend their abusers.

It isn't that the victim is dumb or masochistic or any of the other accusations that fly around ("she must like it, she went back to him");
it's the dynamics of abuse.

The abuser gradually takes more & more control & makes the victim's life more & more chaotic, & eventually the victim comes to believe that the abuser is a) right & b) all-powerful.

My mother mistreated her sister (my aunt) until they were both in their 80's;
if you said anything to my aunt about taking up for herself or if you said anything that my aunt construed as critical of my mother, my aunt would always be ready to do battle on behalf of my mother.

It was the weirdest thing, yet it was "normal" for the situation, very much like the Stockholm Syndrome.

catlettuce, you need to back up, disengage, get away from him for at least a month, & get a restored perspective;

right now you are in no state to declare that you are not being abused, *just like anyone else in your situation*.

I wish you the best.

    Bookmark   March 1, 2009 at 5:14PM
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Abuser might be the wrong word to describe your husband as I believe an 'abuser' has intentions to isolate or cause his/her victim to become dependent on him, etc. What I see is that your husband's pathology is similar to an abuser's but it doesn't seem 'intentional'. The results are the same. You are suffering just as much as an abuse victim all the same. I guess, in my opinion, that it's worse for you because he thinks 'you' are the problem... thinks he's doing nothing wrong, except being a loving parent and 'you' are trying to get in the way of his relationship and he has to take such drastic measures to 'mediate' between you and his adult son... because he loves you both. He obviously doesn't realize that he is really limiting his son by enabling him... and by enabling his son, it is also going to affect his grandson. His grandson is watching dad sponge off grandpa and the cycle will continue to repeat itself generation after generation... that is their family pathology. Maybe that is 'normal' in their family but not what you were raised with. He isn't going to change unless he wants to and I don't see that he will want to because he thinks he's doing nothing wrong.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 10:14AM
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agreee with sylvia, cat is defnding her DH no matter what he does and it sounds like a victim behavior. I think he is an abuser because he refuses to calmly discuss her view point. This is emotional abuse not willing to discuss problems. He might not be a horrible man but what he does makes cat extremelly unhappy, and he is not even trying to change anything.

great idea, cat, about therapy. that should help!~

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 6:52PM
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All this "abuse" diagnosis-talk is nuts. Apparently hair-trigger issue for several respondents IMHO.

Two people on two different planets, OK. But "abuse" isn't on the table.

My advice would be to get out of there but -- let me guess -- she can't afford to. Could be wrong but there's some mutuality going on here.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 6:54PM
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I think enabler fits the bill here, really. Yes I am unhappy, though tensions have eased this week considerably. Perhaps I freaked them all out with my meltdown last week? I dunno. I start counseling this week to help me sort through my feelings.

Also not trying to defend or anything, but I am having severe menopause symptoms which I am sure do not help the situation.

Saw the house this week and will say SS was over helping DH work on it and he spent his whole weekend off working very hard on it. Yea DH will probably flip him some bucks for it, but I'm pleased he was helping his father and I. I will not b**** over a few dishes when he is busting his butt working.

Reading backwards on this thread I am starting to feel really badly it has caused such a uproar. Yes , I want support and suggestions but no I do not see my DH as an abuser, but a bigtime enabler. He does treat me very kindly on a day to day basis, of course I guess I hae not been posting the good as well as the bad, life has hit crisis point with me on many levels, so I guess I have focused on that.

Yes, I have the money and abilty to leave should I choose.
I am still hoping the home will be our chance to really make it work. Maybe I am completely disallusioned, wrong, in denial. I don't know but I do know I have to know in my heart that I have done everything I can do myself to try and make it work. Even if DH isn't willing to go to counseling or stop supporting SS, because if I leave I don't want any regrets that I didn't do everything I could to save my marriage. He is a good person, I feel like I have made him out to be such a bad guy here that really isn't the case. No, he is not willing to budge on the big issues and yes that has got to change in order for things to work for me. Yea, I'm still angry about some things, and I'm not sure I'll be able to get past some of them or not yet. I just don't know. But I do know he is trying to the best of his ability to make me happy and get us our place together.

I'm hoping counseling will give me some coping skills for the stuff that makes me unhappy, including myself and also that those things will no longer be an issue when we move.

I do know that kids moving in with us at the new place would be a complete dealbreaker for me and I would walk away. I am praying and hoping that doesn't happen.

I'm so sorry I have caused such disent on the board here. Please do not think him a monster. Many times with this menopause crud I have telephoned him having a panic attack to talk me down from the ledge so to speak and he is very understanding. This man wil hold my head when I am sick, and stay with me when I am in the hospital and frightened. So it's just a lot more complicated than that.

I wish you all could see what a kind person he is too so you would get an unbiased opinion.

He is just a lot older than me, very old school and i do think it is very painful for him and he is unable to let his kid flounder a bit and find out how to be on his own. I'm not excusing the enabling but no, I do not feel he is being abusive..

Yes I have been unhappy and vey frustrated with our life lately, but I'm just not ready to throw it away. I still want to hope it will be ok eventually, soon hopefully.

I have spent a lot of time the past few days reflecting on why I married this man in the first place and all the qualities I was attracted too. They are still there. We are under massive stress, and I have major health issues going on. All of this makes it hard to deal. I suppose with my medical problems the past 4 years I have not been a treasure to be around either. Hopefully he also still sees some good in me too. I know feel quite guilty for even posting such intimate problems at all because I wonder are my hormones just that out of whack that they are cuasing me to overreact and not be able to deal with normal day to day life in general?

I really hope we make it. And again thank you ALL, very very much for support, advice, input. Whether I agree with it or not I ALWAYS think on it and what you've all said and mull it over and apply it as it fits..


    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 8:33PM
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I rest my case.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 8:39PM
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Rest it and rock it, Asolo. I think your post is a fresh breath of cool air on this overheated thread.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 9:47PM
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So you rest your case what?

I am simply trying to clarify, but do not understand what you mean by that comment? Yea we have issues, no I am not claiming to be innocent of participating. No I do not feel it's an abuse situation. Though I do carefully consider what everyone posts.

Yes, I can leave when & if I need too.

I love him. I still want to try.

Again, what is it you are trying to say?

I don't understand.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 9:52PM
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Ugh, nevermind. Sorry.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2009 at 9:56PM
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I think Asolo was referring to all the conclusion-jumping everyone ELSE has been doing. I think some were reaching with a pretty long bow.

I agree with what you say. A bit of an enabler? I could see that. A lot of parents are "my kid right or wrong" - my beloved wife is, with her son, my stepson. Drives me crazy too, and he sometimes takes advantage of it.

Probably he needed a dad, a long time ago, who would have pulled him up short when he was being so selfish and mean to his mum, but no-one was there to do so. I've tried to get him to be a grown-up to some to little avail, but he's moved back out which is probably better for us, at least at the moment - however, if he does want to move back in I'm putting my foot down about him sticking to the things he agreed to, but did not stick to, last time.

I think your husband sounds like a good person, just kind of trapped. A lot of other people who are telling YOU what you are thinking/he is thinking/what is going on, would be quick to jump on hubby and say he's not standing up for his kid. Do you see the sort of paradox he is trapped in? Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I think buying the house is an amazing heartfelt gesture - despite his faults. Try to step back and see it for what it is, not just your outrage as posted in your first post - I'm not defending the stepson but it's probably uncomfortable for everyone.

I know you have a lot going on - stick up for yourself by all means, but step back and look at it from everyone's eyes, try to lose your and everyone else's blinkers, and look at it dispassionately. Maybe that's a way to move forward. Again, not saying anyone's right or wrong.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2009 at 12:46AM
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Cat- you know the truth. Do not let a few posters try to make your DH out to be an abusive man. Many reading your post do not see that at all, and believe they are really stretching to come up with that conclusion, to what you have posted.

As I have stated before, I see a man working hard to make you both happy, in the midst of an impossible situation. He does not see that no matter how hard he tries, it will not work. What he needs to do, and does not know how, is to do that hard step that all parents must make, and get this son on his own two feet...independent and self supporting, and making a home for the grandchild.

    Bookmark   March 3, 2009 at 10:06AM
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I don't find his supporting his son that unusual, plenty of parents enable their children. it certainly is not abusive behavior.

i do have a problem wiht him guilting catletuce when she was ill and enable to work, he didn't like the fact that she was not working a month or so(she had to take time off as per doctor because of her knee). She was forced to go back to work much earlier than she was told by her doctor simply because her DH said somehting like he is not going to support her sitting home. Unless I am confusing her wiht someone else, but that's what i remember from the stepfamily forum.

i mean maybe people here think that it is OK to do this to your spouse but I find this behavior abusive. he was not willing to allow his ill wife to stay home until her knee heals (even though he can afford it), but he is willing to support his son who is also an adult and is healthy! Because she didn't allow enough time for her knee to heal, she was facing surgery. I think it is unfair and cruel treatment and yes it is abusive in my opinion.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2009 at 8:32PM
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Perhaps because so many parents will always see their kids, as kids. Even though they are grown up, the parent(s) still sees themselves as the "protector". That's why you will hear when an adult goes home, they feel like they are 12 again in their parents home.

I know adult parents who are like this with their adult kids who are in their late 40's.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2009 at 10:44PM
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I would so love to see you move your son into new house. Hey it's YOUR house, isn't it?

    Bookmark   March 12, 2009 at 11:22PM
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Lol Jessy, too funny, but DH has nothing good to say about my son, at least nothin I've heard. He is incapable of having a relationship with him for some reason, throughout our marriage.

Anyway that would be a big huge no-go from my son too. That's why I travel to go see him as often as I am able to get away. I miss him terrible butI understand too.

But if DH tries to move SS in at anytime I'll say "Sorry, already told my DS he can move in-HA! Just for kicks.

At this point I'll be surprised if I end up living there. We'll see. 2.5 months is a ways away and my BS tolerance level is sub zero..I'm tryin, but I don't know. Dealing with lots of hard feelings that I just don't know if I can get past.

But thanks for the chuckle. I'm visiting DS now and we both had a good giggle over the idea.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2009 at 1:35AM
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I am glad you are having time with your son this week-end....enjoy it!!!! He is much closer to the scene than we are, does he think DH is being emotional abusive to you? (Surely he has read all of the comments on this subject). I have been in a similar situation to yours for 12 years....and you can bet that since I got involved in a battered woman's organization and know the facts on abuse, I WAS being emotionally (and it did turn physically) abused.....I still think that is where you are at. Your health improved so much when you were away from him.

You know there is a big difference in loving someone than being "in love" with that person.....I think that is where you are right now......and only YOU can decide what you need to do......live the rest of your married life with SS hanging over your head or make a clean break and get out from under it.

Thinking of you and wishing you the very best.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2009 at 2:04PM
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I have been wondering what is going on with you and your DH..and his son..... I hope things are great...but let us know from time....'cause I care about your welfare.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2009 at 10:57AM
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Hi, Thanks for asking. Not much has changed, things have escalated a bit more at times. Different triggers, same story.

SS continues getting deposits made directly into his bank account several times a month from DH in addition to his wages, but no helping with bills or house or cleaning. He does however go on long fishing/shopping trips and has one of his two girlfriends spend the night here (in the room with him & GS) 3+ nights a week. DH asked me why I had such a bug up my **s about it. I feel it is inappropriate on so many levels. I believe DH enables SS to continue living a life making poor decisions that have effects not only on him but his child and everyone around him. BUT, that is not my cross to carry and I cannot make him stop.

Anyway, I am actively looking for a place, with a short term lease 6 months for this reason, I really don't know if our relationship is salvedgable any longer and if it isn't I will not stay in this geographical area.

Dh knows I am moving out asap, seems to be ok with it though he did say that the money I spend on rent could be used to fix up our rehab house. I said "Yes, that is true, it could." And continue with my plans. Work has all but stopped on the house as DH is back into his workaholic thing and that is that. No real surpises. I love him, I do but honestly there is no room for me in this marriage. I expect I will end up signing the house over and walking.

I don't expect things to get nasty, or least as long as I do everything in my power to not say anything that may remotely make SS uncomfortable in anyway- like "could you do your dishes?" or "I'll need to use my washer and dryer tonight, can you make sure it's availabe?" you know stuff like that. Then things will be ok.

I was very ill with flu all week and must say DH was very good about stopping at store for me and getting my medications filled, popsicles, water and the like almost daily. He is a very good caretaker. Too bad there just isn't any way to make our marriage a priority that comes first.

But I'm just tired of it all now and have no energy left to fight for it anymore. I think the parting will be peaceful, painful in some ways as I am already so lonely and alone much of the time and grieving the time spent waiting for "someday". Sometimes someday just doesn't happen. It's not a realistic hope anymore and I have to let it go for my own health and peace of mind.


    Bookmark   May 1, 2009 at 7:02PM
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