Faciliting the Situation.....

kcilsJanuary 10, 2008

sorry its so long, i appreciate anyone who reads and responds.

Hello all, I just need some advice, my wife and I have been married almost 2 years, both 25, baby will be here in 3 months, 6 months back seperation was about to take place but we learned of the baby, now here we are, I know that its not right to stay together for the child, but its the right thing to do...right?

In my opinion our marriage was doomed from the start, we were together at 17 in highschool, after highschool we both went to colleges 1000 miles apart, and rushed to get married 2 months after graduation not realizing we've become 2 different people, its easy to realize this now, but at the time we were blind.

I know that I am in this marriage half heartidly, as I am sure that my wife is not the one for me, however i keep a smiley face to cover how I really feel, especially now that she is carrying our child, i would never bring the kind of stress seperation can cause to her right now, plus its not like I hate her and don't love her, just not in love.

I also know that she knows that I don't feel the same way about her as I did in the past, we have both talked about it and she will even tell me I don't look at her the way I used to, and its true, all I can ever come up with is i'm just trying to do the right thing.

My wife is very clingy, needy, and spoiled, I should have seen the early warning signs especially when a month before we were married the ring I gave her wasn't big enough and she traded it in, no matter how much i pleaded that it's not the size its the meaning. I also believe that she may have some deep psychological problems being that I have to actually tuck my wife into bed every night i believe this stems from her sleeping in the bed with her parents until we were married, again being young and blinded by what you think is love didn't allow me to see that this would be a problem in the future.

I know that we are suppose to live and learn, and I know that I have learned, I just want to do the right thing.

sorry this is so long, and thanks for any advice I recieve

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What is it that you want the forum to facilitate?

You're young, you have a baby on the way, wife 6 months pregnant, you're disillusioned, & it's all your wife's fault.

It sounds a lot like you're fishing for permission or blessing to kick your partner/child/marriage to the curb.

The fact that you "know she's not the one for me" (women aren't manufactured to be "the one" for self-centered men), & that you think she "has deep psychological problems" (firstly, I'm skeptical that you tuck her in like a child anyway, who would have done this when she was away from her parents?, second, have you asked a professional if this does indeed constitute deep psychological problems? third, when you marry someone, you're supposed to *help* them along their journey. "better or worse, sickness or health" sound familiar?) doesn't add up to entitlement to dump your partner.

Grow up & give your child's mother the support, protection, & love she should have.

ps: you mentioned the word "right" at least 4 times-who are you trying to convince?

    Bookmark   January 10, 2008 at 5:45PM
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You sound like a nice guy and I would bet your wife isn't all that bad herself. You have fallen out of the passionate love, your wife's faults are at the more than annoying point, and, I'm guessing, you are probably scared at the impending unplanned birth of your child. I don't think it's all that important that you are not "in love" with her right now. There are often periods. long periods, in relationships were people don't feel "In love". I don't even know what "in love" means other than I think flowers are usually involved.

You still love her in some way; and that means a lot. Everyone changes and becomes a different person throughout the years.. no one is ever the same person at 40 they were at 30 and so on. You have to adapt. And, sorry to over generalize, but I tend to think most women are clingy, needy, and spoiled at least at times. I have stories about women and engagement rings that would turn your head full circle.

Advice: Act like you are "in love" with her. Try to stare at her a little too long. Laugh with her; wink at her. Touch her hair and hands. Really try to notice her beautiful eye color or her freshly shaven calves (just imagine they're shaven if they're not!). Write her a poem about being excited about having a baby with her. Bring home her favorite candy for no reason. You aren't doing these things for her or to make her fall in love with you (although they may help) ... but you are doing them for yourself to try to bring back those feelings and memories you once had. Act like you are "in love" and you may become in love... Act like you are separated and you will probably become separated so don't be in the marriage half-heartedly, like you say. Put your whole heart into it... it sounds like you have nothing to lose especially with a baby on the way, only things to gain. Just becasue she is a different person now, doesn't mean you couldn't also fall in love with this different person.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2008 at 5:49PM
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I think its sad to be in a situation where you look back on your life and have a feeling of despair, because you have regrets. This OP might be in that situation if he continues down a road of a sad marriage.

Is it so crazy, to dissolve the marriage at this stage, before the child is born ? Have some firm plans in place, regarding the welfare of the child, and the mother ?

Perhaps you need some sensible advice, regarding your options, from an independent person, like a counsellor.

You don't want to end up hating each other.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2008 at 7:11PM
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When I was younger I would have advised you to work it out. Now that I am 70 I value my self more than I did back then. I wanted to leave my husband after we were married 5 years, but decided to stick it out. If I had left after 5 years, it would have been much easier on my boys, they were just babies. I don't believe in wasting your life living with someone you don't love. It's not a healthy situation for anyone in the family. I also believe a couple should try a trial separation to be sure they know what they want.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2008 at 10:09PM
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jonesy, without actually going through it... how do you know it would have been much easier on your boys? I just don't see how people know they would have been happier if only they would have left, etc... You're life could have been worse... you could have left your husband, got involved with an abusive man who sexual assaulted your kids or killed you in an car accident. You could have had to work three jobs and never even saw your kids. I just don't know how anyone knows how their life would have been under different circumstances.

Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't really sound like there's much wrong with the OP's wife or their relationship. I think a lot of these "I'm unhappy in my marriage" problems just may boil down to wanting sex with other woman. Am I the only one thinking that? I think the OP may just have not sowed enough wild oats and that could be causing his unhappiness. He's young, immature, not ready for a kid, and probably hasn't had enough other girlfriends. But to leave for that reason, if that's part of it, seems just irresponsible to me, and, I would bet when he's older and more mature, his regret would be more with the leaving than with the staying. He can always leave; he can't always go back and experience being a full time father. There's a new baby; this is no time to leave. Plus, he still loves her, that should be worth something.

Really, kcils, how would leaving your wife right now make you happy? How is your fantasy happy life different? Picture it...what specifically is different? (Different job, lottery win, cute girlfriend, no kid at all, better hair, what?) I think at least knowing what you are looking for may be able to help you make a more mature decision. Just realize that another woman is probably not going to be perfect either and many "A" and even "B" list girls your age aren't going to want to deal with a divorced man, expecially one with a kid. So, fantasy is fine as long as you realize that's what it is, but don't confuse it with reality. You have a kid on the way, and a wife you say you still love... don't blow it.. cause my guess is, you'd be even more unhappy if you left.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2008 at 11:14PM
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I and my X got divorced after less than 5 years of marriage, we were in out mid 20s. We got divorced for the same reason that OP described: not in love, wrong person, not happy. As I think of it now, we could try harder to save the marriage. At least we could try. Years after divorce we both said to each other: "why did we divorce so quickly" and neither one of us could remember what excatly was the reason for divorce.

As about tucking in bed..my 50-year-old boyfriend ocassionally likes to be tucked in bed when he is tired or sick. He is certainly not needy, but who doesn't like a feeling of being like a kid once in awhile. What's wrong with that?

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 9:22AM
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I should have left my X when I first considered it after 5 years. Instead I stayed in it from a mistaken belief that marriage is "forever". Instead, my kids and I endured 20 years of physical and mental abuse that scarred us for life. The ONLY good thing to come out of staying was that I went on to have 2 more beautiful kids.

No advice to leave or stay, follow your heart.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 12:44PM
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this most certainly has nothing to do with any royal oates, or any other women, and i am here for her and our child, we are not walking around out household dropping F-bombs at eachother, contrary to some of the stories here,we do have a very strong respect for each other, in saying that let me apologize if i came across like i was putting her down, i'll be the first to say she is a good women, but that doesn't make us good together, i am in no way fashion or form running away from anything, do i feel that we should have waited on marriage, absolutley, we are young, but we are both two young, and responsible adults, we've been in each other's lives since we were 17, can't two people just grow apart? we are in couple and individual therapy, we have talked to both our families, we are trying to sort things out, but it is forced, you can't fit a square block into a circle hole. And furthermore, i would never leave her right now, i would never even bring this to her right now as she carries our child.

I honestly can't believe that you would say this...... "

Just realize that another woman is probably not going to be perfect either and many "A" and even "B" list girls your age aren't going to want to deal with a divorced man, expecially one with a kid"

this is the furthest thing from my mind, i don't even know what made you fathom this, don't assume that every situation is your own, i don't know your story, and i woun't assume i know you and how or who you are from a few paragraphs that you post on a message board. don't assume that there always has to be another woman.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 3:45PM
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You're a 25 year old guy who has been going out with the same girl since highschool. Not sure why I would jump to the conclusion that you would be thinking about other woman. I just must be a complete moron for even considering it. Of course you're not, my bad.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 5:09PM
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you know its funny, when a man asks for advice, and discusses his problems searching for answers, for some odd reason sex is always the elephant in the room or it always has to be another women, or some kind of side agenda, and when a woman asks she's is dealt with like a delicate flower, not all men are the same.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 5:26PM
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This is a tough situation to be in...
And judging from my own life experiences (which is all I've got), I know I went back and forth for a long time before deciding to leave my Ex. Like some others have said, being "in love" and being "happy" are actually quite a lot to ask for. Being "content" and "a good team" is actually quite a bit to have, and not something to be taken for granted. I was not in love and was not happy in my marriage, but Ex and I were an effective team, and with a job I loved and good friends, I was reasonably content with my life, despite the hole where my heart used to be. You can live like that if you spend your time on the good stuff and DON'T dwell on the missing parts. You can live like that.

Instead of asking yourself if you still love her, or if you're still 'in love wtih' her, I'd suggest you ask yourself (be brutally honest) if you still LIKE her as a person, and if you still RESPECT her as a kind, moral, responsible person whose character and values you want molding your children. If the answer to all of those questions is "yes" -- then IMO, you have a marriage worth saving, even at the cost of some happiness. If the answer is "no" -- then you've got real problems that won't go away just by not looking.

Again, I'm just guessing -- But I'd guess that at age 25, the real issue is not finding some other woman to have sex with (as it sounds like you think Carla is saying) -- but rather the whole scary issue of "Is this all there is?" and "Is it always going to be this way and never get any better?" or "This is my only shot at happiness and it's already gone?"

Kcils - If this is what you're thinking, you've got to stop that mindset now, because that way of thinking will cause you nothing but emptiness.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 6:04PM
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quite honestly, kcils,

If it was your wife with the same story (which she has by the way, so you may want to ponder)... 25 yrs old, been with the same guy since highschool.. nothing really wrong with husband just growing apart... I would think the same thing... that she was interested in other men and finding a more fulfilling relationship with someone else... I'm not talking just about sex with either you or her.. but the relationships that come with having sex. The relationships I would bet a lot of your friends your age are having.

You may "say" the opposite sex has nothing to do with it, but, if there's not abuse or big mental problems, the opposite sex almost always has something to do with just about everything... well, unless you're gay, and then it's the "same" sex.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 7:02PM
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I was thinking about you Kcils, whilst plodding around my daily toil.

When your baby is born, your life will change, your priorities will change. You might find that your focus, now, which is on your unhappiness in your marriage, will change to the love for your child. You will want to have the best for that child, you will think about his/her future.

It is such a transition in one's life to have this little person, who is half YOU, to care about.

You also might see your wife in a different light.

As a mother,myself, I think my love for my husband has increased purely from seeing him care for the children. For getting up in the middle of the night and changing nappies (we call then that in Australia!). To "taking over" when I was distraught from sleepless nights (for months on end), and just couldn't get out of bed to feed the baby.

I spose what I am saying is, you really don't know what the future holds for you, perhaps you should see what doors are opened for you, when the baby is born. You never know how things could change for the better, or new sides to both your personalities could be revealed.

Jonesy brings up a good point, she is 70, she has experience.

Good luck my friend.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 8:41PM
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Huh, jonesy advised him to leave, that it wasn't worth wasting his life with someone he didn't love, etc.... How's he gonna get to know that baby and his wife with it if he leaves or gets separated?

    Bookmark   January 11, 2008 at 10:12PM
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I can't imagine my life if I had stayed with the person I was dating in high school!

I think you need to buckle down and get ready for the baby right now. Let him or her be your focus BUT set a time frame when you will make a decision. If you energy in 10 months or so, spend some time re-evaluating your situation. Maybe you could discreetly look into what your housing options would be (can you live near your child?).

Even the strongest marriage weakens during the first couple months of parenthood -- if your marriage is shaky now, please believe me that it will get worse when you're sleepless and physically exhausted.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2008 at 12:51AM
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My first instinct was to say MARRIAGE COUNSELING and the thought also crossed my mind, "he needs to sow his wild whatever" but then he denies that and is in counseling. Since you have the respect for each other and can talk rationally, I would continue with marriage counseling and exhaust that before giving up. But in honesty, it sounds like a time bomb ticking to me. You've already decided she's not the "one" for you. The "in love" feelings come and go, it's the deeper love that stays. I'm very much against divorce and believe people sometimes rush into marriage and don't take their vows as seriously as they should. That being said, there is a baby on the way. In my opinion, it would be harder on the baby (or child) for you to stay in order to do the "right" thing and end up resenting your wife and getting to a point where you don't like or hate each other, then divorce. A divorce when your child is older will be more traumatizing, in my opinion.

I don't believe in divorce, but if it's inevitable in your mind, then it will probably happen eventually and that may be worse for your child. That's just something to think about. Staying together is the "right" thing to do but that's only if you really stay together forever and your child doesn't suffer from it (by having parents fight all the time). If the marriage counselor doesn't help you work it out to stay together, he/she should help you work it out to co-parent your child as friends. Good luck.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2008 at 9:09PM
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I keep telling myself over and over, "you have to want to be in this marriage", I know that its not just about me anymore, but then i tell myself, the energy that is being put into your marriage, all the stress, the therapy, everything that we thought would come natural because we just knew that our love was strong, needs to now go into being the best parents that we can be, albeit together or apart.

I have a question for anyone that has seperated or divorced for a non-malicious reason (infidelity, domestic abuse, are what i deem malicious), Did you ever feel that no matter what you did to make each other happy, and i don't necessarily mean material gifts, that it just didn't matter, even if the person pleaded that they were happy, did you just know it was false and that the other person would be happy without you in their life?

sweeby..what you said about being a good team does kind of define us, as far as responsibilities, it's like we both have the mindset of this is a situation that we are in and we are just making the best of it, we have never had money issues and our best times are when we just let the stresses of marriage go and relax and just focus on the friendship, the partnership.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2008 at 1:31PM
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"....anyone that has seperated or divorced for a non-malicious reason...Did you ever feel that no matter what you did...that it just didn't matter, even if the person pleaded that they were happy, did you just know it was false..."

Yup. That would have been #1. She was a fine person (still is) but I did a stupid thing by marrying my "friend". 100% my fault. I knew it and went ahead anyway. Should have called it off, but I was a coward. About your age at that time. We were more like brother and sister than husband and wife. Divorced after a couple of years. Still friends after decades more. I have no wisdom to offer in your case because we didn't have pregnancy/child to consider. If there had been, perhaps the outcome would have been different. As it was, the operative question for me was simply: "Is this how I want to spend the rest of my life?" The answer was clear as crystal. Painful for me because I knew I was hurting her when I acted. Treated her very well financially all along the way but that didn't do much to assuage my guilt. I knew making a marriage out of it was a mistake but went ahead anyway. Sounds to me like maybe that's what you did, too. Don't know.

    Bookmark   January 14, 2008 at 7:15PM
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kcils, Breathe. Deep breathing when you feel scared about the upcoming birth of your child. This is not the time to be questioning whether or not to stay in this marriage, or whether your wife has changed, or if you are "in-love" with her any more.

This is the time to put those thoughts aside for now, and re-examine them a year from now. Or two, or five years from now. But not now. Because what you feel will change so much as you become a father, and in many ways, a man.

A man, with a son, or daughter depending on you to be a better man than your father was. To get this right. For them. To give this son, or daughter of yours a chance, with a great start in life, with two parents who love him, or her, and are cheering this child on!

A few years from now, you will not believe the depth in your thinking, and the sheer joy of watching this beautiful son or daughter that you brought into the world, grow, who believes that you are the greatest person ever when you walk into the door at night. Your thinking will evolve and you will have some depth and substance to you.

Here is my take on your situation. Just tossing it out there for you to consider. If I am off base, just toss my opinion aside. I have gone back and read your old posts. I believe that your expectations on marriage are unrealistic, and based on fantasy. You are expecting to feel that "in-love" high, that feels so great in new love. But life comes in, and love settles into something different. And if you are looking for "any" relationship to give you that "new love excitement, or high" than you will find yourself in relationship after relationship chasing those feelings to prove that you and your latest woman are still "in love". And you will make yourself and others miserable. You could spend your life "chasing" that feeling. And be disappointed when life, and familiarity make those feelings of new love elusive. Most people learn and understand that those feelings come with new love and the excitement of a new relationship. They do not expect them to be the measuring stick of whether we are in-love with our spouse. They understand that love settles down. It is those addicted to those feelings that often end up being unfaithful throughout their marriages. Always chasing another relationship to experience that excitement and high of new love. And once those feelings become elusive, they question whether they ever loved the person at all.

Every time you think about divorcing your wife, spend some time on the step parent forum, going back into the posts of 2006, etc.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 9:54AM
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I tried to suggest the same kind of idea to kcils as you did in your big paragraph... of course, maybe not in as "nice" or as "kind" of a way as you did :-)..... But, he assured me that he has no desire for another relationship with another woman whatsoever, and that it wasn't at all what it was about... that he was really just moving away from his wife.

It too think that he is just chasing the "in-love" feeling that comes with newer (and often less mature) love and, yes, even the sex in new relationships (especially after reading his older post), but I'm sure he knows best what the problem really is.

Hopefully he won't give up on what he has just yet.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2008 at 12:56PM
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kcils, I've been reading this forum and have seen several of your threads. You've been wrestling with your feelings for a while about this marraige. I have to agree with you that you're in this half-heartedly at this point. Please bear with me, and don't think I'm judging you. But maybe you can gain a new perspective on a few things, or shed some light for us on them so that we can better understand. Remember, men and women often have different perspectives on things, and that is likely why you asked for opinions....

You mentioned a few things that I'm suprised about. These things are typically addressed in marriage counseling right away as surface symptoms, since they go way back in your relationship.

"My wife is very clingy, needy, and spoiled, I should have seen the early warning signs especially when a month before we were married the ring I gave her wasn't big enough and she traded it in, no matter how much i pleaded that it's not the size its the meaning."

How does trading a ring for one that fits equate needy and spoiled? To me this seems to be a matter of practicality. In addition, a woman wants a ring she can actually wear. Many many women don't even take theirs off for showering. I wonder if maybe you are undervaluing the importance of this for her. While it may have fit a percieved romantic ideal for you, it would have totally gone against a woman's romantic ideal. When my ring was stolen last year, I freaked. I can't stand the thought of not wearing it. Not all women feel this way, but many do. Honestly, as a new bride, I would have felt hurt that I'd be expected to not be allowed to have a ring that fits that I could wear. I have to ask, why would you beg her not to get one that does? I don't understand that.

I guess I sense you are finding faults now that you hadn't let bother you before. I would also suspect that she notices too, and it may have something to do with her perceived clinginess, which often comes from insecurity. I think she may well feel insecure if she senses she may be losing her marriage. I would consider that a strong possibility were I you.

"I also believe that she may have some deep psychological problems being that I have to actually tuck my wife into bed every night i believe this stems from her sleeping in the bed with her parents until we were married,"

I just don't see that as a deep psychological problem. I often ask hubby to tuck me in, call me crazy. I've been married 17 years and my husband and I have different work schedules. He's a chef, and that often means some erratic hours. If I'm ready for bed, and he's not, sometimes I'll just say, "hey sweetie, come tuck me in?"

I don't want to go to bed without him, but I can't realistically expect him to go right to bed a few minutes after he gets home from work -- he needs time to unwind. I have to be up early though, so I have to go to bed. It allows us to have a goodnight kiss and a hug, and I drift off to sleep peacefully. I perceive it as a really sweet gesture and a sign of affection. Maybe your wife is feeling some insecurity and is using this as a way to find some sort of closeness to you. Even if it did stem from her parental closeness, the reasoning STILL fits. Give some thought to this. It doesn't sound as though she's demanding you come to bed with her.

I am not judging you, I am just giving you a few things to think about. The more you look for things to dislike about her to justify a divorce in your mind, the more you will find.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 7:13AM
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"the ring I gave her wasn't big enough"

I took kcils to mean carat size, not the band size.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2008 at 1:09PM
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That wasn't my understanding Carla. Given the romanticized ideals I'm seeing, I had to ask.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2008 at 3:00AM
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I also took it to mean that the diamond wasn't big enough, and she traded it in for a bigger diamond.

kcils, did she really sleep in her parents bed, with her parents, until marriage? I have never heard of anyone sleeping with their parents until they became an adult. Seems odd. I imagine her clinging is due to (you) having one foot out the door, throughout this marriage. Anyone would feel very insecure in this situation.

kcils, you do understand that love feels different after marriage? That "real life" kicks in with jobs, dinner/dishes, cleaning the house, buying groceries, endless errands and responsibilities etc., and is not the fantasy so many imagine it will be like when they get married. I think many people are unrealistic about what marriage will be like.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2008 at 9:55AM
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I read this forum occasionally but have never posted here before. However, I too was wondering why no one (other than bnicebekind) commented on the poster's remark that his wife slept in bed with her parents until marriage. What??????

    Bookmark   February 6, 2008 at 11:25PM
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What can you even say to that?
It kinda speaks for itself...

    Bookmark   February 7, 2008 at 11:21AM
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