More banks of drawers than double door cabinets: wise or foolish?

akcorcoranJanuary 31, 2013

So, we are ordering our cabinets next week and in looking over the final plan, I realized that I have only one set of a double door lower cabinet.

All the others are either three or four-drawer banks. We started with assessing what we have in the kitchen and what I use, and I kept coming back to things that could go in deep drawers - tupperware, pyrex bowls and dishes, service pieces, etc.

Right now, all the stuff in our two-door lower cabinets is kind of stacked and jumbled. We're also 5' 11" and 6'1 tall. And, we have a 24" full-size pantry with pull-out shelves in it.

The double door cabinet is to the right of the stovetop (very right of the attached drawing.

Am I right to go that direction or do you think I should switch something to a door cabinet on bottom?

Thanks for your advice!

P.S. Specifically, to the right of the ovens, I changed those from a drawer and two doors to a bank of four drawers. My rationale is that things that would go there include: drawer of non-traditionally sized cutlery, cooking utensils; drawer for saran wrap, aluminum foil etc.; tupperware and other misc sized serving pieces. Does that seem like the better choice?

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I would even make that double door cabinet into a drawer stack. It looks lonely as the only lower cabinet with doors.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 9:40PM
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Drawer, drawers and more drawers. Unless there is a very specific reason for having a lower cabinet I would go all drawers. I talked my KD into letting me have one lower cabinet and it is a junk collector. Should have gone all drawers as she suggested.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 9:58PM
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My cabs are being ordered tomorrow, and I did all drawers, too! I am even trying to figure out how to put a trash pullout under my prep sink to avoid that dead space. It sounds like you have already mapped out where you would put what, but that really helped me make my final decision. Good luck with the cabs and dishwasher!

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:06PM
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Yay, y'all are making me feel better! The only reason I did the one set of double doors was "equipment" like my mix master (it has a pull out shelf in it.) I couldn't figure out where else to put that stuff since I didn't have room for a butler area...? And that lonely guy has a little friend on the other side of the range top that you can't see which is a cookie sheet/tray cabinet. :)

And, Momto3kiddos, that's too funny! I asked for a pull out shelf under our prep sink (in the 21" cabinet" so I could put a small trash can there (it's in the island!)

The one I sort of dread but is inevitable is the lazy susan in the corner. Had to make that turn somehow but those are always such a pain to use.

I think it's just going from an old reality (all two door lower cabinets - you're classic nightmare tupperware cabinet that falls when we touch anything!) to a new reality!

THANKS, Y'all! I really really feel better now.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:13PM
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akcorcoran- where do you plan your heavy and/or tall cooking pots (stock pot, 3 quarts, soup pot etc)? If in drawers, you might upgrade to extra weight bearing undermounts or ball baring glides. Then too, nothing like a cabinet with tall shelves to stack/put them on.

Momto3-perhaps this will help:

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:16PM
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Yes, very wise! The only doors I have are under my double sink. I do have a deeper 15" drawer for my tall stock pots, extra blender, fire extinguisher and other tall things. Other than that they're all 3-drawer and 4-drawer stacks. Works like a dream, would never go back to doors.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:24PM
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Put drawers everywhere unless you have a specific need for the vertical space inside a door cabinet; otherwise it is not ergonomic or efficient use of that space. I have drawers in all lower cabinets except the trash pullout (which is essentially a tall drawer), the corner susan, and under the main sink. My prep sink cabinet door is also a pullout that holds a second small trash can, and there is even a small interior drawer inside that cabinet under the sink (shallow to clear the pipes).

I keep all my pots including the tall stockpot, popcorn maker, blender etc, in my corner susan, which is right next to the stove. I used super susans on shelves rather than one with a pole, and it is incredible how much I can fit in there. I dug my tallest items out of storage when they were installing the shelves so we could be sure to space the shelves to accommodate them. I store a few flat things on the sides of the corner cabinet next to the turntables.

My over-fridge cabinet holds the rest of the big bulky things that I don't need often, like the ice cream machine and the cake holders.

I love having drawers.

Here is a link that might be useful: Corner susans at Hardware Hut

This post was edited by northcarolina on Thu, Jan 31, 13 at 23:12

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:11PM
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The only lower doors I have are the sink base and the trash pullout. Everything else is drawers. I was skeptical at first but now I know that it was absolutely the right decision. Drawers are the best!

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:21PM
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This is all such great feedback. I need to think about the really tall stockpot (or, we call it the "corn pot that we use twice a year in the summer but takes up tons of space." :-)

And we have things like a crockpot, blender, etc.etc. The corner susan is a great idea for that and I think mine pulls out like that - gotta check the Fieldstone website (vs rotates) I gotta fit that MixMaster somewhere but I don't have one of those "specially-designed cabinets for it" - just thought I'd put it under somewhere. It's not the HUGE one but big (I should measure it?). I'm not a baker so I don't want it out on the counter.

Hmmmm... so do you think I should change the double door cabinet to the right of the Themador rangetop to drawers?

I am so thankful for you invaluable GW folks!

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:24PM
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Here's view of that stovetop wall - You can't see the "lonely" double door on the right from this view. The door cabinet to the left of the rangetop is the "tray/sheet" cabinet (hmmm... wonder if that should have gone by the oven or in the island? No room there though...

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:26PM
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Drawers, the choice with no regrets. None.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:26PM
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I could also do something like this in there - so it's like drawer space but has the doors? Or is that just a waste of space around those pull outs?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:32PM
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On a similar note, b/c you guys have BUILT kitchens and I don't, would you rather have a larger prep sink OR larger drawers?

Thinking specifically of my island.

Originally I had an 18" cabinet for a prep sink and then 36" drawers next to it.

A sink smaller than 18" is not all that useful to "prep" - so she was going to bump it to a 21" cabinet so my drawers were now 33" wide. I felt like that was still a healthy width. Thoughts?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 12:21AM
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I'll add my voice to the chorus of drawers. Draaaaaaawers!

The problem with the cab you just posted with the pullouts is that you have two motions to get to the contents. You have to 1. Open the door, and open it all the way too. 2. Then pull out the shelf. When you go to shut the cab, you have the same two motions in reverse, but you also must wait for the shelf to be completely inside before you shut the cab door. If you don't, the shelf hits the door and can damage it. Ask me how I know. :)

Yes!! Measure your appliances! That's essential to coming up with a great storage plan. I was obsessive about measuring everything and so was able to fit almost everything in the zone where it would be used as a result. If it fits in a drawer, store it in a drawer. Do everything drawers that you can.

What will store over your ovens? To me, that makes a better spot for sheet pans (cookie trays) etc than a lower cab because the cab over the oven doesn't lend itself to a lot of good storage otherwise. A lower cab full of drawers can be used for much more versatile and valuable storage.

I'd do that and then covert your lower cab for sheet pans to more drawers. Covert as many as possible, actually. I have never longed for the days when I had to get on my hands and knees to search the back of a dark lower shelf in a doored cab since I have my drawers. Hard to believe. ;)

My prep sink is a 15-16" wide silgranit. I had wanted a sink about 18" wide and would have purchased that size if Blanco made one, but they don't. I have a 30" wide 3-drawer stack next to it where I keep all my small and large prep/mixing bowls, essential prep tools, vinyl gloves, measuring spoons and cups, etc. I find my prep sink to be perfect about 98.97861% of the time. I'd much rather have a huge expanse of prep counter next to my sink than less to have a larger sink.

Have you chosen your prep sink?

Do you have a pantry, garage, or basement space to store that tall stockpot? I have a really tall commercial one that I only use a couple of times a year also. I store it in my corner Susan with my crockpot inside of it (don't use that much either). I wouldn't plan a doored cab just to store a tall item I rarely use.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 1:10AM
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I COMPLETELY FORGOT about overtop my ovens - duh! The only issue is that my kids won't be able to reach them (my daughters bake quite a bit, actually BUT) that is more logical for sure. We're getting Elux Icon ovens so the only thing is that the Wavetouch panel is pretty tall but I could still get that measurement. And, if the girls have to ask for help or stand on a stool, they won't be 9 and 11 forever!

THEN the 15" cabinet that is next to the range top could be much more functional! It was originally a pull out for oils, spices, etc. but that just seemed a little overkill to me?

I haven't chosen my prep sink yet (yours is nice!)

And, I think you're right. I emailed my kitchen designer to ask if the corner susan has pull out shelves (I think it does - they were straight with a V in them as I recall. Then I can store the corn pot, the crockpot, the blender, etc in there and change out that double door cabinet to drawers for sure.

Would you do a bank of three so bottom one is deep? Or four b/c it's a pretty narrow space? The thing about three is that unless it's for deep dishes/pots, etc., you can end up with a lot of wasted space above whatever your storing.

One thing that I'd add is that we have a floor plan where we have a table just across from the island, separate the kitchen from a family room/fireplace. I'd even consider putting placemats in a drawer over next to the range top b/c it will be on the way from the kitchen to the table, a few steps away!

I LOVE this - you're all giving me so many ideas - good thing I didn't order this past Wednesday!


P.S. Ironically we use our crockpot at least once a week but that still doesn't mean I want to see it all the time! Before, it was in a cabinet below our oven which means I have to crawl on the floor to get it. I enjoyed the demo of the kitchen iMMENSELY!

This post was edited by akcorcoran on Fri, Feb 1, 13 at 1:29

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 1:21AM
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This is what she originally had left of the range top - for spices and other baking / cooking needs. Should I go back to that if I move the cookie sheets/trays above the ovens?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 1:26AM
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That seemed sort of like overkill to me but does anyone have one and love it?

What I'd really like is a more narrow spice rack (we don't use spices a tremendous amount so spices and then maybe oils on the bottom)

and then maybe one of these utensil peg boards. I hate throwing our spatulas etc in a drawer or shoving them into the age 'ol ceramic jar that everyone has on their countertop.

Anyone have one of those and vote yea or new?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 1:28AM
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And, while I have you, I didn't order the appliance garage under my corner susan cab b/c I thought it wouldn't be that useful and hold much so I didn't want to give up counter space. Should I reconsider?

Looks like it holds more than I thought...? (Ours has wood turn tables not the plastic ones)

We don't drink coffee, so no coffee machine, and don't use blenders that often. Do have a can opener... and unfortunately a big toaster oven not a little toaster that would fit in there. Could use it, I suppose for the on-counter utensil jar (see, they have one too!) or anything like that?

OH, we do have an u-g-l-y iced tea maker but you can't take the iced tea out of this NC girl, so that could go there?

Oh gurus, would you go for the garage or keep the counter space?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 1:49AM
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Lots of little answers here.

I would still put the tray storage over the oven. Do the kids bake without adults around? If not, then you can get the sheet pans down for them. If so, then the 11 year old is probably tall enough and old enough to get a stool to reach.

I have a regular corner Susan with shelves that rotate within the corner and still find it to be a tremendous amount of storage (huge mixing bowls, toaster, giant stock pot with crock pot inside, large food processor and accessories, small food processor, spice grinder, casserole dishes, and more bowls). If I had to do it again, I'd get a super susan without the middle vertical bar down the center instead of the regular lazy susan I have. I actually think some of those fancy corner units that pull out have much less storage space.

IMHO, those two last pics you posted look cutesy but completely impractical for a busy cook. Bending over and stooping down every time you want the cooking oil or a spice seems like a giant PITA to me. I keep my olive oil in a pretty bottle with bar pour spout for easy access, and the remainder of my oils are in the pantry where it's cooler and dark.

My spices are optimally organized in a drawer in cute and functional tins. (Old pic.)

If you can't use that small space for anything except a spic pullout thingy or tray storage, I'd do tray storage. That maybe just me though. Like I did, the oil/spice thing would annoy me.

Speaking of annoying me, that tool storage gizmo would drive me to drink. I don't have time when I'm cooking to gently open and unhook a frequently used tool like shown there. Not to mention the unnecessary time and energy it would take to out them away back on that thing. If your kids ever empty the DW, I would doubt they'd ever get tools arranged on there to your satisfaction. I love being able to pull my favorite bamboo spatula right out of my utensil bin on the counter, but sometimes don't like the visual mess of it. Could you look for a creative or cool storage container that would fit your new kitchen better? Why not store them in a shallow drawer with dividers like I do with my less frequently used tools? My dividers are temporary, but you get the idea.

In short, a big NO to both those gimmicky pullouts.

As far as 3 vs 4 drawer stacks, it all depends what you want to store. I knew the 3 stacks wouldn't work so many of my items because they are small and need shallow storage.

On the other hand, I love the 3 stack in my prep zone for my large bowls and stacks of small prep bowls. (Drawer not full as I hadn't emptied the DW.)

You might not have time for this, but if you do, make a list of every item you want to store in the kitchen. Then assign them to a zone (prep, cleanup, cooking, storage, baking, etc). Once you know what goes in which zones, you can decide what kind of storage works best for those items. I did put my sheet trays over the ovens despite my baking zone being down the perimeter on the other side of the rangetop because that was the best use of the cab over the oven.

Good luck!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:07AM
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holy moly, breezy girl, look at that spice drawer! Are you a professional organizer - that's amazing! Will you come help me put together my kitchen when it's time?!

I'm so impressed with and inspired by your organization! And, it's so lovely to see SPACE - I'm hoping for that as opposed to everything crammed in the way it was so I also need to purge.

I've got an inventory via photos of a lot of our stuff but unfortunately, I didn't take a full inventory before we packed up the kitchen for demo. So, that's sort of why I'm casting about trying to figure out what goes where before I get a kitchen full of places that are "just not quite right."

So, I think I should go four drawers in the space that the lonely double door cabinet was to the right of the stovetop.

What should I put to the left of the stovetop then? First it was that pull out thing for spices and oils (nixed,) then it was cookie sheets (you just helped me nix,) now it's free? It's 15" wide I believe.

And, I think we might have a Super Susan - the letters on the diagram say SSSW (I looked in another catalog and SS was Super Susan - the W was wood interior.) Hmmmm...?

And what do you think about the appliance garage?

I'm moving in with you! :-)

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:26AM
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I was typing and missed your last post. While I'm on an opinion-giving roll here tonight, I will say that I dislike angled corner uppers and angled appliance garages. I never liked them in theory but now that my DB's and SIL's house has them, I can say I dislike them in practice also. It's difficult for me to find things in their angled upper, and things get lost in the corner of the garage. Plus, it's difficult to get big items out through the small door. And, visually, the angled cabs just bug me. I like appliance garages in general though.

What to store there goes back to making the inventory and evaluating with measurements. How big is the iced tea machine? Will it fit in a deep drawer? Do you have a pantry for storage? How often do you use it? Can you instead make iced tea the old fashioned way with hot water and tea bags in a pretty glass pitcher in the fridge? Just asking these questions to make you think.

As to counter space, you'd need to post a layout with measurements to answer that. It looks like you've got plenty, but I can't really tell how much or in which zones it is.

If you really don't want to keep utensils on the counter, then designate a top drawer immediately right (or left if you're a leftie) of the cooktop for them. Easy to reach and store, and if you ever change your mind in the future, you have a versatile drawer for storing other items instead of a wacky utensil grid pullout that can't be used for much else.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:30AM
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And, one more last question since it's 2:30 am here!

Our island isn't oriented the way that most are b/c of space considerations (and my husband's desire to have a full-size fridge and freezer! It's basically a 4 x 4 1/2 square sort of shape and then a lip for a few stools at the end. So, in the end it's medium wide but is very deep.

Consequently, all of the working action is on the SIDES. In the end, I have NO storage at all on the sink side and obviously none underneath the extension of the granite for seating.

Is that strange? On the one hand, I like it b/c I'm not trying to pull anything out while people are at the sink, no dishwasher interference, etc. And the working space is basically across from the places you might want it - the fridge/freezer on one side and the stovetop on the other.

That said, it's just so funny to see those plain panels on the side of the island, completely devoid of storage?

IF you stood there you are FACING the open room - our table and then our family room with a fireplace, so maybe it's better there's no storage there b/c then it's a place I can work while facing everyone?

Maybe it's all in my head - and most people's islands aren't oriented the way ours is - but once we were slotting in a 32" fridge and 32' freezer next to a pantry, the island got shorter and longer lickety split!

Here's the cabinet spec plan -

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:38AM
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LOL! No, not a professional organizer. Just very OCD about my things, especially in the kitchen. Life just functions better and less stressfully with organization.

I hear you about the inventory. My items were packed also during our whole house reno when I made my inventory. I went through each drawer and cab in my old kitchen in my head to make my list. It's time consuming, but I'm very happy I did it.

For the 15" space, see my earlier answer. Will the over-oven cab be enough tray storage for sheet pans and your serving trays? D you have another storage spot for serving trays? Maybe you want that cab to stay as tray storage if you think about it. Otherwise, I'd recommend drawers. They won't be wide, but they will be useful. I have a 15" 4-drawer stack between my MW drawer and my prep sink. Interior drawer space is 12".

On top, I store my knives. (Not all are loaded here.)

Then my food scale, bowl citrus reamer, funnels, etc.

Next is my box grater, handheld graters, lesser used micro planes, etc. (don't have pic.). And on the bottom I store my hand blender and stick blender with lots of empty space.

I find narrow 3-drawer stacks difficult to use.

P.S. aren't you on the east coast? Go to bed!! It's late! ;)

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:45AM
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LOL! We keep typing over the top of each other! I thought you were east coast. :)

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:46AM
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I really need to run another DW load and do some laundry before bed, so one last post.

Have you posted this layout before for the pros here to take a look? Sorry if you have and I missed it. I'm being blunt, but working in that layout would make me want to shoot myself. The way I see your plan, you'll be prepping on the long side of the island facing the fridge freezer with your back to the cooktop. You will have to walk around the island to get to all the food in the fridge, freezer, and pantry. I'm getting better about pulling ingredients out of those areas before I start working, but still am into those areas many times during a meal. Having to walk around each time would be too much for me.

You have lots of counterspace around the cleanup sink that could be better used other places.

I'm guessing at this point you can't move windows or plumbing, so I'll shut up now. You NEED storage in your prep zone, regardless of where it is.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 3:03AM
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Oh dear - I haven't b/c I sort of just discovered this forum and I somewhat trusted my architect and then kitchen designer (could be famous last words now.) :-(

The issue has been that when you are putting in 7' of fridge/freezer (the Electrolux Icon set,) there's only so many places it can go? That shorter wall was really the only place it could be in order to keep counter space (it could flip around but then you're in the same boat. And, I was trying to keep the ovens on the periphery (and closer to the serving area like the dining room) vs farther.

And, the only opportunity for a window is on the outside wall (where it is now,) so it's the logical place for the sink.

I do have a bank of 36" trip drawers in the side of island by the stovetop (intended for all the pyrex and cooking big stuff) and then on the opposite side, drawers underneath a drawer microwave.

Originally, the sink was even closer to the stovetop - and farther from the fridge/freezer bank but b/c of our old colonial house structure it had to move more to the center.

I only mention it b/c there was actually NO prep sink in the island at all. Just a big beautiful (assuming I find the right slab of the granite I want!) working island.

The prep sink only went in once the sink moved down a bit. I was surprised at the way it faced, honesty. Folks said, oh, you'll want to prep near the stovetop but I was thinking I'd want to prep with my back to the main sink, in the middle, and facing towards the room.

If I turned the prep sink counter clockwise, so that working to the right of it would having me facing the room and be more central, then I necessarily make the big drawers of storage across from the stovetop smaller?

I didn't want the stovetop in the island for lack of counter space (and mess) and I don't like the primary, kitchen sinks in the island (have you met my kids?)

So, that's sort of how we ended up where we are now.

If you run all the elements through your head though, I'm not sure how else we could have laid it out (unless you move the stovetop in the center of the island?)

ugh - now I'm paranoid. I hear what you're saying - no easy way to grab milk or butter while you're standing at the stovetop.

Is there any way that I can rework the prep sink to help me? I'm actually not a huge cook - we own a food business that does :Make and Take meals (Let's Dish!) so I'm not having to prep a whole lot but make a salad or side dish. That said, I don't want an idiotic kitchen for the amount of $ we've spent on this remodel (and these cabinets!)

Sigh - now I'll never fall asleep!


P.S. I should add that we have a butler's pantry/wet bar next to the kitchen (between the formal dining room and the kitchen) that has more storage in it. Intend on keep more formal serving stuff out there. But that's a different type of usage.

This post was edited by akcorcoran on Fri, Feb 1, 13 at 3:46

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 3:31AM
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To follow up, ANYTHING you see that might be able to be done, I'd love to hear. No cabinets are ordered yet - and the window must be that sized window on the plan, but it's not in place yet.

Like I said though, the wall where the sink is now is the only exterior wall - butler's pantry to the left (when you walk through the area to the right of fridge and left of ovens) and then mudroom on the flip side of the stovetop.

So the window can only shift left or right (and even that's complicated b/c there is a transition from the new addition to the old house that happens about 45" in (basically the juncture to the right of the dishwasher.

Appliances are committed to but not truly ordered - some leeway there. plumbing and electric is just now going in but I could scream, "Halt!"

I think that somehow if I can shift back the main area of working /prep to the center (with my back to the kitchen sink, facing the open room which you can't see,) it would make it more workable...? It's that prep sink that changes the orientation...? Or I kill it all together?

crud. i'm all ears. or tell me who to ask. :(

This post was edited by akcorcoran on Fri, Feb 1, 13 at 3:48

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 3:39AM
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I really don't want to make you paranoid! Sorry! My advice is coming from someone with a super functional kitchen who cooks from scratch every meal, every day. Architects do seem to design the worst kitchens around here.

Moving the sink to a different spot on the island won't help with this layout.

Do not put the cooktop on the island.

You're right in that when you commit to that much cold storage (especially since you don't cook much), something has to give. If I were you, I'd move the cooktop to where the cleanup sink is now and move the prep sink to the other side of the island so you would be standing with your back to the fridge freezer. Move the cleanup sink to where you show the cooktop. Yes, the sink won't be under a window, but.....sacrifices. You can still have a largish window to the right of the new cooktop location so you can still see natural light from the prep zone and cooking zone. Even the cleanup sink would get light.

You will get interference when you prep from people coming in to the fridge freezer behind you, but it's better than walking around the island every time you need a food item.

The best place to prep on that island in your old layout is with your back to the rangetop. You'll want to be close to the cooktop so you're not walking around the island to get there. You want a simple pivot with maybe a step from prep zone to cooking zone. And you NEED storage in the prep zone for knives, measuring spoons and cups, whisks, can opener, mixing bowls, etc. If I'm reading it correctly, you intended to store Pyrex there? That's a cooking zone item (or more for baking, depending) so it's better off on the perimeter near the cooktop.

This is just my late night, tired, 2 cocktails-at-dinner take on your space, and I'm not an expert. If you want better help from the layout pros (some of whom are KDs), post your layout in a separate thread with appropriate title. Hopefully, Rhome410, Live wire oak, Green designs, or Hollysprings will jump in and offer better options. These people KNOW about kitchen design!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 3:59AM
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Hi - I may post in a new thread - the problem is just explaining all the parameters (some structural with the old house/new house transition.)

I was playing with a new idea but it doesn't really help if I want prep across from the stovetop.

In what is a terrible, not really-to-good-scale, 4 AM sketch, you can see kitchen (and butler's pantry/wet bar to the left of it,) -

For a possible idea, I was re-orienting my main prep space to be facing out towards the room, back to the sink, in the middle with the fridge to one side and the stovetop to the other. Sort of working either side then, remember it's not that WIDE of space, unlike most islands.

So on the side with my back to the sink, now the main prep area, I've added drawers with the prep sink then facing the window side to my left if I was standing there.

That requires me moving the microwave drawer (which can be done - it could actually move wherever.) And killing my hubby's beverage center ("beer fridge") - he'd be less than thrilled but could suck it up. (I wish I could put it under the seating area - think he'd notice! wink!)

The fact of the prep sink between the movement to the stovetop is still the problem. Is there not any other way to do a prep sink - could it move to be more central since my island is so deep? Do I really need it?

Assuming I must keep the working sink and stovetop where they are, Is this any better?


P.S. The stovetop could shift left to start where the Super Susan ends but then you're sort of jammed in the corner with too much counter to the right?

P.S. 2 THANK YOU. I may be stressed but I recognize good advice!

This post was edited by akcorcoran on Fri, Feb 1, 13 at 4:55

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 4:41AM
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I posted a message to the main board but don't know if anyone has any ideas - I really think that something can be done with the island but maybe I'm being naively hopeful. We'll see what the morning light brings. Thx -

This post was edited by akcorcoran on Fri, Feb 1, 13 at 5:42

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 5:41AM
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Thanks to you both for this detailed organization thread. I'm at the same point.

Breezy, you're a great help. I'm persuaded to maximize drawers but may end up adding super duper heavy glides given my husband's cooking pots and their weight. I guess the other option is to use shorter, deeper drawer stacks which ad to expense. A super susan may hold up to 450 pounds but I'm trying to get a speed oven on the run which would otherwise accommodate it and am limited by inches.

Thanks again for your continued posts last night/early morning on this subject.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 8:11AM
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We are used to seeing layouts of spaces with restrictions and structural issues. You gotta love it when someone posts a 12'x12' kitchen with five doorways and two low windows asking for double wall ovens, 36" cooktop, and an island! :)

I'll go check out your other thread. I'm sure you could get by with the kitchen the way it is now, but I think it could be even better.

Did you get any sleep?

Sparkling--you're welcome. I would definetly ask about the super duty glides for very heavy pots and pans. If I had an actual scale in my house, I'd weigh the contents of my two pots and pans drawers to see if they're overweight. I suspect they are now that DH has brought home more pans. I do worry about those drawers now. Next time my cab maker comes, I'm going to ask him to take a look. Good for you for thinking ahead!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 12:13PM
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Hi all! OK, so the debate muddles on about layout but it's over on another post - follow or contribute there if you'd like (Link below)

BUT, back to the intent of this post... I met with my kitchen designer and made many improvements, I think, thanks you y'all!

Changes made:
1) Lonely double door to right of range top changed to bank of 4 drawers. Good stuff.

2) Tray drawer to the left of range became two deep drawers like taggie's (pic below) - yay, thanks for that idea! I love the idea of quick access to cutting boards and cooling trays and things like that at waist height rather than pulled out near the floor.

3) Tray divider above double ovens added. I went with six dividers - they are removable but that gives me 5" between each. I thought that with the double drawers I mentioned above (and photos below) that I might want to store some more decorative trays and then muffin and odd shaped trays up there so they are a little wider than in breezy's photo. good idea or no?

4) Verified that it is a Super Susan with no pole so I can store bigger pots, my crockpot, etc under there.

5) Skipped silly spice narrow pull out in base cabinets but did add a rack to the upper cabinet to the right of the stovetop that would allow for spices or other baking needs on the door as well as in the cabinet. Otherwise, will put them in the drawer(s.)

6) Ordered another peg divider for the big drawer underneath the microwave - thinking that's the new home for our tupperware collection!

7) Roll out shelf and towel rack added underneath the sink (already had the little tip down sponge catcher.)

8) Customizable wood cutlery tray ordered - it can go in either one of the 21" drawers right of the dishwasher or left of trash.

Wondering if I should order a second one for utensils or I'll just do Bed Bath and Beyond option...?

9) Considered other optional drawer organizers and decided I should wait until I get them and then order once I know where things will go and what space I need.

Only exception here is maybe breezy's knife rack? We only have about 10 knives but I really like the idea of that in a drawer and it looks like it's one the drops in from the cabinet company, yes? I may get one of those but need to figure out the location and size...?

  1. The big one... and open to discussion on this one...?! I did go ahead and add the appliance garage in the corner above the super susan and below the corner cabinet.

I know it will take up some counter space, and that's an area that I might have liked clear (although I argue that deep corner really is dead space:) We drink iced tea. We make pictures of it every day. It is made in an u-g-l-y blue plastic Mr. Coffee brewing contraption. It sits on our counter ALL day, every day. So, forget the pretty chrome blender or fancy toaster, it's that iced tea maker that I'd like to hide. Tea can be brewing away and no one will ever know. Except happy me.

If you think that's a mistake, shout it out - but I'm thinking it's the right call.

OK, so that's the scoop, folks! I think I've maximized most all that I can, save the whole debate about layout. Thanks for all your advice b/c I wouldn't have made all those tweaks without you - and I think they might be the things that make the kitchen so much more functional!


(This is a photo of taggie's narrow drawers next to her rangetop for cutting boards, trays, etc. Her actual post in the thread about the layout of my kitchen.)

Here is a link that might be useful: Post discussing the layout of my kitchen

This post was edited by akcorcoran on Sat, Feb 2, 13 at 4:44

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 4:42AM
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Here is one more option for above the oven storage. I love having space for my large stock pot and roasting pan.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 8:10AM
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OOH - like that layout A LOT for the over the oven space, especially since where that twice-a-year corn pot, as we call it, will go! Going to see if that's an option for me. Thanks for sharing!


    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 12:35PM
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I think you did really well with your drawer and storage decisions!

Since you asked, my opinion is to definitely add the knife storage. I have knife storage envy every time I see that pic of breezy's knife drawer.

And my strong opinion is to nix the corner appliance garage. I love the thought of appliance garage storage in general, but NOT in the corner. Takes up way too much usable space and is only accessible from a smallish opening. And, in my own personal opinion only and I don't mean to offend anyone who likes them, they don't look that great. Plus you need to have the garage door open and preferably the appliance pulled out while in operation anyway otherwise it's a safety hazard, so if you'll really be using the tea maker constantly then the garage won't be hiding it anyway.

You have a huge butler pantry run right on the other side of the fridges and pretty close to your main sink. Can't you keep the iced tea brewer there tucked in behind the sink run wall? Or buy a beautifully GORGEOUS new iced tea maker that you'll love to display. You can buy a pretty nice looking new appliance for the price of an appliance garage. :)

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 3:55PM
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Not sure how tall your ceilings are and if you are going to the ceiling. We have veritical and horizontal over the oven. And horizontal over the fridge.

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 4:32PM
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Blurgh. Wrote a whole reply and must have forgotten to hit that second submit!

I really like that option for up top too (we're 5' 11" and 6' 2" so I'm not afraid of high cabinets and storage. I'm going to ping the cabinet designer on both of those!

taggie, as for the appliance garage. I hear you and am still debating. I guess I never really saw that far back corner as functional space that I'm giving up - it's so deep to an angled cabinet, what exactly would I put there? It is a small entrance which is why I initially didn't add one - we use a full Cuisinart toaster oven and it won't fit in there, for sure.

That said, the iced tea maker could probably stay and brew in there - it's simply plastic, nothing hot like a toaster or coffee pot, etc. I just hate the idea of it being on the counter. We drink so much iced tea, we debated putting in a restaurant hard-lined brewer but then didn't want to have to go through the pain of cleaning it.

If you find a GORGEOUS home iced tea brewer that makes 3-qt pitchers at a time, let me know! :-)

I'll have to decide in the next day or so. Will sleep on it - I hate making all these decisions in the absence of usage. I like to live with things a while before making major decisions - this is SO The opposite way of how I work! :-)

    Bookmark   February 2, 2013 at 11:55PM
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akcorcoran - Just wanted to chime in about the Mr. Coffee iced tea maker. I use one also, and while it's only plastic like you say, when its brewing it creates a lot of steam. Not sure that would be good for your cabinets! YMMV

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 12:38AM
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Not sure if you've already moved past the rollout trays idea, but move along, there's nothing to see there. Rollout trays are a way to salvage the usability of plain base cabinet boxes, a poor man's drawers (no, not his underwear). Go drawers all the way.

I'm a big fan of appliance garages, but not the angled corner variety, but that's a matter of taste. Dedicated pots and pans drawers with heavy duty slides are a great idea. As for storing large rarely used items, I'd use your pantry for those.

I'm also a big fan of trash pullouts. Consider using Servo Drive motors for hands-free motion especially for the trash pullouts.

Here is a link that might be useful: Servo Drive Video

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 3:58AM
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Hi all the drawer fans, question for you - it turns out that some of my measurements changing have pushed me into an off size for an accessory - SO, for example, I wanted a 21" cabinet for the prep sink so my giant back of storage doors went from 36" to 33" wide and the peg board and peg accessory comes for only 30" or 36" drawers. Should I order the larger and cut it - or the smaller and just fit something beside it (e.g. lids to the pyrex or lids to tupperware?)

The same applies for the handy knife rack - it's 18" and my drawer is 21" - I'm assuming for that one it's no big deal just to have a little extra space (put in the sharpener or a pizza roller or something, for example?

Thanks for the advice!


p.s. Still working on the trash pull out for under the prep sink - good idea to look at the Servo Drive motors. Thx!

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 9:04PM
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I would add here that the garden web drawer religion is really the only true religion there is. I have never had such an easy time entertaining, and my friends say "drawers? does that really work?" cuz they never converted.

One other thing that I have found nice is dedicating a 15" wide four drawer stack to my kids' stuff. They have their own colorful bowls/plates/cups/sippys/cutlery. The top is all the lids, second all the kid cutlery, third the bowls and plates and fourth the cups. This way, the kids pick out their own stuff for each meal. It has gotten so that when their friends come over, the friend just pick out a cup and come to me with the cup they picked out asking for drinks.

This is probably a useful idea up until age 8 or 9 and keeps them out of the rest of the kitchen stuff.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 9:36PM
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Alexa, definitely cut down the 36" peg board. For the knife rack, much harder to cut down, so use the extra 3" for miscellaneous cutting tools like pizza cutters, can openers, etc. For a more finished look, a drawer divider would be good but cut down on your usable space.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 10:13PM
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Most GWers who have their dishes in drawers that have the soft close feature have commented that the peg board and pegs are not necessary.
I can tell you first hand that my dish drawer does not need the peg system that is in --there too bad I didn't know that before I ordered it.
So I suggest that you try your 33 inch drawer without the pegs. You can always add it later if you feel you need it.

Here is a link that might be useful: Peg dividers for dishes

    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 10:14PM
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Thanks -

It's funny on the peg board. These ARE new, soft-close cabinets but part of my rationale to the pegs is "a place for everything and everything a place." My daughters have emptying the dishwasher as one of their chores (when we get one back after the remodel - now it's all by hand and they HATE that!) - if we don't use pegs, I'm afraid that a nicely organized system will disintegrate into a randomly piled mess, especially since one is envisioned for Tupperware. The girls have to take a trash-free lunch every day so there is LOTS of use for the little tupperware containers and lids.

We will have banks of 27" drawers (under the microwave), 36" drawers under the (oven), 33" drawers (under the island), 24" drawers and then two sets of 21" drawers. I was thinking TWO peg sets - one for the 33" (pyrex, bowls, etc.; would have to cut the 36") and one for the 27" (Tupperware, would have to cut the 30") All the rest would be completely open. Does anyone think this makes sense?

On the second issue, I hear you on the knife block. I'm still going to order it in the 18 and will have hubby fit a piece beside it if it slides around. We have a rather rag tag-looking set of knives and an inexpensive knife block now so no need to have that sitting on my pretty granite countertops.

Any other tips before we order (tomorrow!) :-)


    Bookmark   February 5, 2013 at 10:56PM
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How about an aftermarket knife drawer tray? Mine is a Wusthof 14 slot tray. It fits with plenty of room in my 15" drawer, which has a 12" internal width.

Again, my most used Shuns were in use at the time I took this pic. The drawer actually holds more than shown here.

Here is a link that might be useful: Wusthof knife drawer tray

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 12:17AM
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Alexa, see my post in the other thread you referred us to on peg boards: Blum Orga-Line adjustable plate/bowl holders. Blum also make a very slick knife tray that is 7" wide, so two might fit neatly in your drawer? Also, if that's too modern/metallic for your kitchen's style, Hafele makes BEAUTIFUL drawer organizer line called Fineline. Check it out.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blum Knife Holder Video

    Bookmark   February 6, 2013 at 1:02AM
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