Large capacity FL with sanitary cycle

kaismomDecember 6, 2011

I have 10 yo 240V small Asko that works quite well. I am thinking of keeping it as a second set in the house and replacing the primary set with a larger capacity one. If I get a 4 cf, it will be double what I can do in my tiny Asko!

I been-there and done-that with buying a very expensive W/D set. (I spend 2K plus in 2000 for the Asko set) When I bought the set in 2000, there were no options for W/D that had sanitary (real hot) cycle other than true Euro models. (Asko, Bosch, and Miele)

I am not sure if I want to spend $3-4000 for a larger 120V Miele set. I just don't see the advantage other than the branding and possibly better reliability (and build quality which I am not sure if I even want to pay for). I am not really seeing how it can clean better since the technology it uses is the same. (I maybe wrong.....) However, I am completely sold on the internal heater since I have one and see that it makes a HUGE difference.

Had I bought a cheaper set, I would have had no compuction of replacing sooner. It will be interesting to see what will be out there in 10 years given that the W/D market in 2000 versus 2011 is very different.... I wouldn't mind upgrading in a few years if the products improve greatly!

Miele set will make it difficult for me to upgrade given the initial investment.

What are some good products out there with good 'hot' sanitary cycles? I would like to be able to control the water temperature (more than cold/warm/hot).

Model names and your impression?

Whirlpool Duet (Maytag cousins?)




GE seems to have fallen out of the washer race.

I put in a 120V large Bosch in my rental and my tenants are very happy. I am not sure if it even has an internal heater... I hear that Bosch has opted out of W/D market.

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I'm not sure if this is what you're looking for, but my Elextrolux Wave-Touch has an internal heater which it uses to raise/maintain temps. It has a sanitary cycle which is 152*F I believe, an allergen cycle which is 131*F (mandated by NSF), and then it has hot, eco hot, warm, eco warm, cold and eco cold temperature settings. The internal heater will be used for any of those except "eco cold" which is the cold water straight out of the tap. Eco warm and Eco hot lower the temp a couple degrees from their standard settings to save energy.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 3:30PM
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@silvercanadian, can I ask how you know the Wave-Touch uses its heater in all those cycles? There has been plenty of discussion around here regarding heaters and I thought only the Miele used its heater in all settings (except normal).

@kaismom, I researched most of last year before committing to my Miele W4842/T9822 pair. I too kept questioning whether Miele was really worth the extra investment. I can't speak to all the other models (as I've never owned them) but I can tell you the Miele is excellent.

I wash items that are dry clean only and they come out beautiful.

There really is more to it than you think. There's a reason why some FL clean better than others. It has a lot to do with the drum rhythms too. And while cleaning well, they need to take gentle care of your items. Some machines are rough.

For example, Miele is the only machine (I'm aware of) that uses something called "spin clean" to ensure even full loads are distributed well and every item cleaned thoroughly.

"SpinClean ensures that larger volume loads are cleaned thoroughly, without excess wear, by manipulating the drum rhythms to ensure superior results and longevity."

Rinsing is also a factor I think is SO important. In fact, I believe CR should be testing for rinsing. How well a machine rinses will greatly effect your clothes. My new Miele rinses a lot better than my previous Frigidaire.

The build quality is absolutely unmatched by any of the brands you mention.

I linked my fav Miele video for you to watch. It's very informative.

Having said that, I'm sure you could be happy with others. During my research I narrowed down to the LG WM3875 and WM3885. Both large drums with excellent reviews. Also score very well with CR.

I'm not a fan of the Electrolux for personal reasons. I find they fell cheap and the push to open door is gimmicky and annoying (to me). They also score very poorly on CR.

I personally wouldn't consider a Whirlpool but they score very high on CR.

Samsung would probably be my runner up to LG. Although I didn't do a lot of research on them at the time (as they didn't make a gas dryer for Canada). They score high on CR and I know several people who own them and love them.

I know someone in high end appliance sales and while Miele is his favourite for obvious reasons, Samsung is his current runner up (albeit distant runner up).

I'm not sure you would need two dryers. You could probably keep your Asko washer and buy a new pair (Miele, LG, what have you). The dry cycle is so much shorter than the wash cycle so you could easily use one dryer to service two washers.

Good luck with your decision. Keep us updated on what you decide.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele - The Art of Laundry Care

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 4:38PM
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@livebetter I emailed them before I purchased the machine asking questions. I'll see if I can dig it up.

    Bookmark   December 6, 2011 at 4:51PM
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@kaismom, I have a simple LG FL set bought a year ago for $1000 for the set. The washer is LG2301WM which I think has been now discontinued, but I'm sure you can find a similar one. It doesn't have steam or other fancy features but it has an internal heater (a must for me). Other options that is has and I use a lot are Water Plus (to increase water level in your wash), Extra Rinse and Pre-Wash. It took me a while to figure out how to use the washer to get the best performance possible, but after a year of ownership I can tell you that I am very happy with it.

@livebetter, I pause my washer and measure the actual wash temp with an instant read thermometer - that's the only way to confirm that the heater actually works in a given cycle.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 11:03AM
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Just to clarify, $1000 was the price for the washer and the matching dryer. I have mine stacked, so I think about them as an inseparable "set". The washer itself was $500.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 11:43AM
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Miele appears to have stopped selling their 240V washers in the USA. Until a few years ago, they sold the largest washer you could get like this. The 240V washers could reach just over 200 degrees.

I think all of Miele's "Americanized" models now are limited to 160. Most of the American models can't even reach that temp. Since you already have the wiring setup for it, I'd recommend looking around to see if you could find something like a closeout on a Miele W-1986.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 1:35PM
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Can I ask what you wash at over 200 degrees? I would never make use of that feature.

@izeve, the Miele door locks after a certain point in the cycle and cannot be opened so would be impossible for me to measure.

Based on the quality of the machine, I'd be surprised if it didn't deliver the temps as advertised. Would like to hear if anyone has information to confirm.

I can tell you that the temps are very warm from what I've been able to tell. I have never used sanitary but have used hot from time to time.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 3:57PM
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Many of the recently discontinued Bosch Vision 27" washers, the last of which are now being sold at steep discounts, can heat the water to 170F, even though it runs only on 120V. Some of the DLX models sold at independent retailers even go to 175F, although it's sometimes labelled as a drum-cleaning cycle and not for clothes. These are good machines that just weren't profitable built in the US.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 4:04PM
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"Can I ask what you wash at over 200 degrees? I would never make use of that feature."

This option is great for kitchen towels and dish cloths. It absolutely cleans out anything in them. It's also good for removing almost any stain from white linen cloth or most any fabric that can take high heat. Stained bathroom towels, wash cloths, etc. Someone that I know with one of these uses it for baby diapers. Dump in pail and diapers come out like new. All without needing bleach.

Now that I have a washer that can reach these temps, I would not want a washer without it.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 4:19PM
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Thanks all...
Maybe I should look for Bosch units that are being sold at a big discount....

My current washer washes to 205F. I washed my kids diapers in the washer. Sometimes, I wash my dish towels in that temp. I love having a washer that actually 'sets' the water temperature that I want to wash at.

I HAVE an awesome washer. The only problem is that it is tiny. I probably could never go back to a so-so washer after my experience with these.

The typical rinse is 5 times in my circa 2000 Asko. If I add extra rinse, I get 7 rinses. This is one of the BIG things that they advertise. I never smell any detergent residue in my wash. To me, when wash smells of detergent, that means poor rinsing....

    Bookmark   December 7, 2011 at 9:34PM
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I think this is the largest high-temp (195F) 240v washer currently available - they claim 18 lb./8kg capacity on their website, which is about what an old top-load washer holds (the owner's manual has it at only 15-1/2 lbs/7kg though, but even that's considerably bigger than a 5kg Asko). The decently large 13" diameter door opening makes it feel bigger too. I've never seen one of these in person, but I have seen their washer/dryer combo (which is 6kg but otherwise similar specs) and it seemed well made.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 12:20AM
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kaismom: Do not hold your breath looking for the Bosch units at huge discounts. I combed the net looking everywhere in Canada and the US for the washing machines and came up empty(well almost empty) for the Anthracite colour. See my post here in this forum regarding my adventure.

If you do find one however, they do seem to be nice for the money.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 6:55AM
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Regarding the Bosch: I bought it for the tenants. (Vision 300, about a year ago. I could take them out when they move out AND buy another cheaper set for the tenants....)

Now that I think about it, that maybe the best option!

I know that these are expensive set of W/D. I tend to put in better than average appliances for the tenants because I want to do my part for water and energy savings. In the long run, the cost differential is NOT that much for me as a landlord and it helps to attract good tenants.

Thanks for the link on Fagor. It is still a 24 inch machine. I want to go to a 27 inch machine. I don't see the point of upgrading to another 24 inch machine.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 12:43PM
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But it's a larger capacity 24" machine. You have to decide if 27"w is more important than 195F water and not needing bleach. You can't have both, unfortunately, at least in the US.

I think even the low-end 300 series Bosch 27" heats water to 170F though. At least where I live, I still see them in stores, mostly closeout sales on floor models and such, but also some new-in-the-box ones (Bray & Scarff is selling a 500 series with the 175F cycle for $999).

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 3:05PM
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I already have a small washer with 240V that washes at 200F that I am keeping as the second washer in the house. (I currently own and have used 240V Asko for 10 years plus)

I want a large washer for most of my usual laundry. This is not the situation for most people; 2 sets in a same household.

I looked at the capacity spec for Bosch(3.3cu ft) and Miele(3.09 cu ft). This is on the Energy Star web site. I figured that these are the most reliable information for the capacity. When i look on line for Bosch Vision on the web, I see both 3.3 cf and 4.5 cf. Their manual does not specify the capacity. I will go with the Energy star...

I am starting to lean toward Whirlpool with their 4.5 cf capacity for the same real estate on the floor!

What are your thoughts everyone?

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 3:54PM
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I think the Bosch 3.3 cu.ft. washers are the older "Nexxt" washers, their earlier 27" design with the controls on the front edge of the top panel (and thus not stackable and can't be built in under a counter) and with a tilted, fairly shallow tub. They do have a door that wraps over the top a few inches, which makes reaching into the back of the tub much easier than with most front-loaders.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 4:51PM
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From everything I have read and my own experience, I would go with either LG or Samsung over Whirlpool. You can find basic models of LG and Samsung with a heater for $500-600. My LG heats up to 158F in Sanitary. It also uses the heater for Hot in most cycles. I've had it for a year now and have been pleased with it.

As you are looking at capacity, you should keep in mind that there are two different ways of measuring capacity, DOE and IEC. You need to know which one the manufacturer or retailer uses in order to compare apples to apples.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 5:08PM
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I haven't shopped for big washers or dryers for a few years and don't know the current market well. The LGs look pretty good (also, they're the only company selling a full-size 27" washer/dryer combo, which you can use alone or with a separate dryer, allowing the entire laundry to be done in one shot if you don't have a large load of clothes). Samsung's online specs and manuals are useless, leaving out crucial stuff like water temperature or spin speeds. Maytag = Whirlpool, probably the same size. Kenmore is usually made by LG or Whirlpool. Electrolux worth a look.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 5:13PM
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About the only kind of diapers that could take that heat is flats and prefolds. Modern cloth diapers are completely different than old-school diapers. I've got some that say they can be washed on 70*C (158*F) but most are less, especially any made with the new high-tech fabrics. And they don't need to washed at 200, nor do they need bleach. Rinse or flush poop prior to washing and you're good to go.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 5:25PM
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Lee: did you happen to notice if there were any 500 washers in the anthracite (dark charcoal) colour?

I'll be pissed if I could have got a boxed unit. Lol

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 9:21PM
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A few weeks ago I bought the Samsung 520 series washer and dryer. To give the OP an idea of capacity, yesterday I washed ten towels in a load and I could have possibly put in a couple more without feeling I was overstuffing it. Six were standard bath towels, four were oversized beach towels. Compared to my old set that's a lot, but I really have no contemporary basis for comparison.

In direct response to this thread I ran the very long (1:55) Sanitize cycle for the first time, and I checked the temp roughly every 15 minutes. Specifically, I would pause the cycle and bury the probe of a Thermapen in the middle of the load. The highest temp registered was about 111, though the documentation claims 150 deg.

So here's my question: Regardless of brand, have you validated actual temp versus claimed temp? If so what are the results? Do you think I should be calling in for service?

I've got some other questions, but I'll save them for a "non-sanitary thread" ;-)

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 11:02PM
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@foodonastump, does the Samsung allow you to open the door even during a sanitary cycle?? That seems odd.

My Miele W4842 will lock when the temp reaches a certain point or at a certain point in the cycle and won't allow the door to be opened.

    Bookmark   December 8, 2011 at 11:39PM
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@livebetter, my Electrolux is the same. The manual states:

"As a precaution, the washer door is locked once the water temperature reaches 130 F (55 C). If the cycle is cancelled during the wash phase and the water temperature is greater than 150 F (66 C), an automatic cool down and drain will occur before the door can be opened."

My Maytag that I owned prior to this, with a sanitize cycle, also did not open the door once a certain temp was reached.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2011 at 2:38AM
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> Lee: did you happen to notice if there were any 500 washers in the anthracite (dark charcoal) colour?

Here's one I found quickly that will ship....

Here is a link that might be useful: Anthracite Bosch

    Bookmark   December 9, 2011 at 9:01AM
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foodonastump, if the water temp is 111F well into the wash portion of the sanitary cycle (about 50 minutes in), then there is definitely something wrong with your machine. Are you sure you measured the temp during the wash portion? Is it possible that your measurements were at the beginning of the cycle and then right after the first rinse started?

My LG also locks when the water inside reaches a certain temperature but on a sanitary cycle you can just put your hand on the glass door and feel it getting hotter and hotter as the wash portion of the cycle progresses.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2011 at 9:23AM
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Some 120v washers put precedence on time over temperature on some or all cycles, certain cycles anyway, so it may be functioning as the manufacturer intended even if it doesn't reach the target temperature - this happens especially in winter when the incoming water is colder.

Some - maybe all - LG machines (and Kenmores built by LG) have a button combination that can be pushed that will tell you the current water temperature (in degrees Celsius) on the digital display.

Many washers with high-temperature washes will add some cold water just before draining. This is so if it drains into a laundry tub, people can't scold their hands if they touch the water in the sink or if they get splashed by the water.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2011 at 4:10PM
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Lee: I already tried that place and they do not have any. In fact they even have a store in toronto which I personally made a trek into to see. I checked EVERY online retailer I could find, even those that listed it as "in stock". That's why I was wondering if anyone had seen them in person. Doesn't matter much now, you found my floor model, but would have preferred in a box.

    Bookmark   December 9, 2011 at 11:24PM
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my asko washes at a temperature that I set it at. There is a dial that allows me to pick the exact temp that I want. The door on the washer gets hot when the water is hot.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2011 at 12:17AM
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i have the bosch vision 500 series w/d. washer has an xxsanitary wash that heats the water to 170 degrees. i am very happy with this set.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2011 at 9:46PM
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OMG get ready to laugh, guys. I was just typing up a detailed response the comments/questions re my Samsung when suddenly I had a thought. Sure as sh;t, they hooked up my washer backwards. They sent the cold water to my dryer (correct, and which I actually checked because it was more accessible) but to the hot water input on my washer. Idiots.

Ok... I'll report back after my next load. Now that the input temp will be closer to 130 deg than 55, I hope to get some sanitary linens!

Interesting and of note though, even washing in cold water and rinsing with hot gave me noticably better results than my old TL!

(Please don't ask why I never questioned my clothes coming out of the washer so toasty warm. I did. Just thought it was some fancy feature.)

    Bookmark   December 12, 2011 at 10:59PM
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@foodonastump, LOL ... you're not the first one to have that problem.

I would think you'd be unable to open your machine to check the temp in Sanitary. I would think it would have a safety lock.

Let us know how it works out.

You've been washing in pretty cold water then? The Samsung probably doesn't use it's heater in most settings so you'd be getting what came into the machine ?

    Bookmark   December 12, 2011 at 11:28PM
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foodonastump, ha, ha, you are not the first one that's happened to. But it just shows you that the heater works well in the Sanitary cycle in your machine - if the incoming water temp was 55F and the heater managed to bring it up 111F (55 degrees increase in about an hour) that means the heater will have no problem bringing the water from a temp of over 100F at fill to 158F which is the target for Sanitary. You probably will not be able to open the door to measure the temp but just put your hand against the glass door at the beginning and towards the end of the wash portion of the cycle and see if the door gets very warm to touch.

    Bookmark   December 13, 2011 at 9:15AM
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I have had an Asko set like kaismom describes. It was awesome, and does a true 'profile wash,' loading from cold water, and heating the water (gradually) to the temperature.

However, we have a king sized bed and bought a large size Whirlpool Duet (one of the German made ones). It doesn't clean NEARLY as well. And it doesn't rinse nearly as well; we now use vinegar in the rinse water to get the detergent out, and we've had front loaders since 1995, and know full well how much detergent you don't have to use.

We are sufficiently annoyed we are dispensing with the Duets and have just had a new Euro size Asko delivered; the difference is this is a 7kg machine, not a 5kg like the old one.

I'm sufficiently annoyed I'm not sure I'd ever buy a Whirlpool product again. Their documentation claims that at SOME point int he cycle your water will get to whatever temperature the cycle is supposed to have, and for sanity cycle, keep it there for 5 minutes.

I don't find that it gets the clothes sufficiently clean. I also find the Duet almost as hard on things like black jeans, giving them that overall 'frosted' look from rough treatment, that a top loader does.

I'll be glad to be back using a Euro machine, even with the drawbacks of the smaller drum size.

    Bookmark   December 14, 2011 at 6:03PM
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Thanks for your assessment. I LOVE the way my Asko washes. When I smell other people's detergent residue in their clothes (which I do), it makes me nearly gag. I really cannot go back to the old fahioned cloth washer pre Asko days. This is why I am having such a hard time giving up my precious Asko for a larger capacity machine. I have not found a machine out there that really seems to work the way I expect it to work...

    Bookmark   December 14, 2011 at 7:42PM
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The killer is I sold the Asko to get the Duet, and I feel like I have totally wasted my money on it. Good thing I had the extended warranty because it has needed bearings and a new motor in the 4.5 years I've had it. Now I wonder if its mother board is going.

Incredible. I don't expect that on these things, they are not cheap. And I bought a machine with an internal heater so as to be sure to get the water to the right temperature.

Clothes, to me, are supposed to smell like cloth and not detergent. They are not supposed to have 'soapy streaks' on them after you only use 1-2 tablespoons of powder in the wash. I have moderately hard water so the powder SHOULD dissolve - it does in my (Bosch) dishwasher, though that is a different formula of course. And forget about using (Canadian bought because you can't buy them in the US anymore) soap flakes -- they do not wash out AT ALL in the Duets.

Couple this with having to replace my Whirlpool dishwasher because its motherboard fried itself in 4.5 years I don't think I want to buy another Whirlpool. I hope my (Whirlpool made) Kitchenaid stove lasts! (LOL). It was my second Whirlpool dishwasher; the one in my last house worked really, really well. I'm not going to every buy another Whirlpool if I can manage it. I'm just done with them.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2011 at 1:08PM
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You don't sell an Asko to buy a Whirlpool... silly rabbit!

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 11:48AM
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You are absolutely right! What a dumb thing to have done!!

Well, live and learn, yes?

    Bookmark   December 16, 2011 at 4:58PM
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