Is a low voltage halogen can too hot for inside a valance?

monkeypuzzleNovember 22, 2009

Is a low voltage halogen recessed light too hot for inside a valance over a sink? What is the best light for this area?

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seattlepaul

That probably depends on what kind of valance (soffit?) but generally you can put TC fixtures within 1/2" clearance of drywall or joists. If there's room for some air to circulate around the housing, you're probably okay. NOTE: The answer changes if the valance is actually part of an attic structure (you might need air-tite or AirLoc type cans to reduce heat loss). If you have insulation present in the space, then you need to hold it back 3" on all sides from a TC or non-IC housing, build a drywall box around the housing, or get an IC housing.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 7:17PM
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normclc

You can use an ordinary recessed housing if the space is uninsulated, and an IC can if the space is insulated.
Try using a 20MR16/NFL or a 35MR16/NFL.
There is no need to use a 50 watt watt for this application

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 11:07AM
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monkeypuzzle

Thanks.

What can do I buy for under the valance? (Also which can for general kitchen lighting?) The TC47TC47V 4" TC Low Voltage Housing, 75W MR16 ?

By the way, both my kitchen designer and the lighting store that sells Juno tell me that I can't use low voltage halogen for general lighting in the kitchen because they say the spread isn't big enough.

Am I missing something?

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 12:58PM
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normclc

Use a TC44 housing with a 447cwh trim for the sink.
The spread of light is dictated by the light bulb used.
If you want to use low voltage MR16 fixtures, use a 50MR16/FL(EXN) or a 50MR16/WFL (FNV)bulb
You can also improve on the light dispersion by using a clear alzak trim(447CWH)

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 9:00PM
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seattlepaul

IMHO, it IS possible to use 4" for general lighting, but it really depends on your spacing and ceiling heights. It seems like a lot of lighting designers will try to over-light a space based on rules of thumb, but if you work at it and understand what you're getting, 4" LV can work. 5" is useless since your likely choice there is a PAR20, which puts out LESS light than an MR16.

I agree with norm, Alzak reflectors definitely help get the most out of MR16's and an EXN or FNV will help a lot. We just setup some cans to try out lighting our living room on a grid that's about 32" in one direction and 52" in the other. The 52" is a little shadowy at head/chest height, but down at 24-36" it's pretty even and gorgeous. We used Juno IC44N's with 447 trims for this, but we chose Haze instead of Clear.

One other note, you don't likely want the TC47V (note V) - that's a 230 volt supply. You want the TC44 or TC47. The 44 can accept up to 50W and the 47 goes to 75W. If you don't think you'll need the 75W, use the $$ -- smaller transformer and slightly shorter can should be cheaper.

After googling around (hint: in google, enter your search terms and then "site:gardenweb.com" to limit to this website) I suggest you visit a local showroom to look at different trims, lamps, and light sizes. It really helped us.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 5:20AM
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macv

Alzak reflectors would seem to defeat the purpose of focused low voltage lighting in addition to increasing the apparent brightness at the ceiling.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 7:41AM
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normclc

While most people use the gimbal ring, which is usually based on the low price,this trim puts the lamp at the ceiling plane ,and therefore causes unbelievable glare.
By using clear alzak or haze ,you maintain a relatively low glare ceiling.
The use of clear alzak is to send more light horizontally, giving you more dispersion, and at the same time , especially in a kitchen, driving light up to increase light levels inside the upper cabinets.

You can eliminate all glare by installing black alzak, but the result is cave-like light levels and dark vertical surfaces.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 11:10AM
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monkeypuzzle

Do I need more low voltage halogen cans than regular halogen (kitchen designer and juno store both say this.)

I have such difficulty reading this thread due to dyslexia especially with numbers. I have tried reading it several time now and I am not sure I understand it.

The kitchen is 11 ft wide.

Tell me if I understand correctly:
There is insulation in the attic so I need some kind of airloc can.
TC44 or TC47 can for both sink and general depending on 50 or 75 watts.
20MR16/NFL or a 35MR16/NFL bulb for sink.
50MR16/FL(EXN) or a 50MR16/WFL (FNV) bulb for general lighting.

Haze or Clear Trim. There are brass hardware and fixtures and wood flooring, which Haze is supposed to enhance. Does this mean I should go for Haze or is Clear trim better?

Do I understand most of it now?

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 2:18PM
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guido_gardener

Maybe important: I've seen halogen spots of the same size, where some reflect all infrared heat in the same direction as the visible light, while others have reflectors that let the infrared pass through the reflector (which would make the back of the spot much hotter).

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 4:14PM
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normclc

I'd use the IC44 cans in the insulated ceiling and TC44 over the sink.
Don't use a 75MR16 as it has no where near the life of a 50MR16(5000 hours)
It's a toss up on clear vs haze.
The clear will give you more light reflectance and more dispersion,the haze will somewhat reduce the glare from the trim.
The quality of light will not be affected by using either trim

    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 11:44AM
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monkeypuzzle

Should the spacing for the IC44 cans with 50 MR16 bulbs be the same as for regular halogen cans or should it be closer together?

    Bookmark   November 26, 2009 at 9:01PM
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normclc

I try to have 4' spacing on my recessed fixtures installed in areas that require a high level of light, such as a kitchen.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2009 at 9:48AM
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monkeypuzzle

The cans should be placed 2 ft from the walls according to the lighting store. Is this correct?

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 2:54PM
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