Used Miele Pricing? Quick replies needed!

covingtoncatDecember 18, 2010

I have the opportunity to purchase a "gently used" W1213 and T1403 combo. Details, approximately 5 years old, not used for the last 2 1/2 years (kept in garage). Includes stack set and prong converter. Asking $2, 250.

Empty nester couple, moderate usage. Owner said she decided she wanted more capacity and replaced them with larger units. Have been sitting since.

What do you think would be a fair offer on these machines? Any specifics I should ask? I don't know if I will be able to demo them, as they are not hooked up or currently in use.

Any responses or advice greatly appreciated.

Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Caveat: My brain works more oddly than most, so hopefully someone else will also provide thoughts. :)

My first reaction would be the state of the garage. Immaculate? Appliances covered? Could be a lot of dust and other stuff inside. Machines been moved around a lot? Probably no warranty? Repairs, as I've seen, can run high so make sure it's worth the dollars for this maker vs a newer machine or other brand that may be more reasonable.

I can't think of anything I'd buy without seeing/running it. Given all that I'd offer $500 plus removal for the gamble.

Good luck!!

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 10:23AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Sorry, too much, as I have seen, in the past, brand new showroom models, in stainless steel that were priced around amount, and they included the factory warranty.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 2:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks for the replies.

I have been doing some internet sleuthing and found (2) identical listings for 1K ea (although unfortunatley NOT anywhere in my area). Obviously, a lot of money was originally invested, and they are trying to recoup as much as possible. I agree price is too high. I found an internet site that has the dyer NIB for $900 (w/Warranty). I'm really interested in the washer only, but they will not break up the set.

There would be no warranty - units are 5 years old.

Listers are going out of town till after the holidays in a couple of days, so I am not rushing in to this. If someone buys them in the meantime, that's the way it goes.

I'm not good at negotiating, but would not be willing to pay 2,250. I don't want to low-ball them either. I honestly think they are expecting to get 1,800 or 2,000. Still too high, IMO.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 3:04PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

The value of anything is what someone else is willing to pay for it in that place at that time. What the original buyers paid for it does not matter; what they want to recoup doesn't matter. Talk to anyone trying to sell a house they bought several years ago.

You don't say if you have a relationship with these people beyond being a potential buyer, but if that's your only relationship, then offer what your research shows is fair and don't worry about it. Obviously you don't need the washer and they don't need to sell it. Make the offer and, if they turn it down and you're still interested, tell them to keep your name for when they change their mind. Unless they hold those appliances for another 50 years, they're not going to be worth a dollar more than they are now.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 8:18PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thank you steve_o, and you are right, they ARE only worth what someone is willing to pay. While I have absolutely NO relationship w/the sellers, I do not want to offend them by lowballing. I realise I have nothing to loose, but I am very interested in the units, and would like to have them.

If the other two listings I saw were at 1K, realistically they will get offers less than the asking price, probably ending up in the 8-900 range. I would go for that, but am hesitant to offer less than even 1/2 of the current asking price.

If they can not demo the units I would need some written commitment to take them back even though the add says they are in "perfect condition." I think they are unrealistic in the price they are asking.

I would be willing to go for the 800 - 1,200 range. I think an offer of $500 would be too low, given the listed price.

Opinions? Thanks

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 10:29PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I think an offer of $500 would be too low, given the listed price.

Again, the listed price is immaterial. I could list some wadded up chewing gum on craigslist for $20 a glob; that doesn't mean anyone will offer me that kind of money. :-)

You're talking a five-year-old washer and dryer. That they are Mieles gives me far more confidence than if they were most other brands. So let's say that they're about 30% of the way through their expected lifespan. They're not hooked up so you can evaluate their operation. I think it's doubtful you will be able to get any kind of executable warranty out of the sellers, so you will take on the risk of the purchase -- and they will take a hit, too, because they'll have to sell at a lower price than if they could demonstrate proper operation, to compensate for the risk.

I'd start at $700 a pair, given the age of the appliances and the inability to check them out before sale (condition unknown/as-is), and then go up to wherever you feel comfortable if they counter.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2010 at 9:56AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I'm with Steve O, but wish to add that a Miele service call, now that these are out of warranty, is a minimum of $150, plus mileage past fifty miles (I am using what I read for California, you will need to check with Miele for your state) from the Miele Service Center.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2010 at 1:10PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thank you for your suggestions.

I sent them an email expressing my continued interest a couple of days ago. I also referenced two identical offerings on CL (nationwide, not local) with the listed asking price of $1000. I asked how flexible they were with their pricing. To date, I have not heard back from them.

Either they are uninterested in negotiating AT ALL (in which case they will be sitting on those units for quite some time), or will respond to me after they wait it out a bit. They did mention holiday travel plans.

I will keep you posted.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2010 at 1:21PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I bought the same set a couple of months ago for $1,150. They were purchased more recently than yours (original receipt available). Had a certified Miele installer pick them up, inspect them, and install in my home.

    Bookmark   December 22, 2010 at 11:48PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks for the post sc14. How did you make the arrangements to have that service done? I do live in a metro area, so should be able to find a certified installer.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2010 at 6:15PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Called the dealer who sells Miele and asked if they knew of someone who would install the washer and dryer. Gave me the name of their certified Miele installer and I called him. He offered to pick up the machines, look them over, and deliver and install.

The installer said they like to take care of Miele customers, even if I didn't purchase the machines from them.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 11:38AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thank you sc14. I haven't heard from the sellers. So for now, I am in a holding pattern. I will call some higher end appliances stores and see if they can give me a referral for an installer if I am able to move forward.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2010 at 2:44PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hello again. Heard back from seller (had been out of town for holidays). It is not possible to run them (not near water hookup), but could power them up. While I have not made an offer, she said she was flexible on pricing at $1,100.00.

I am looking to see if I can fine someone certified to check them out for me and install. Still thinking based on advice here and other listings that new price is on the high side.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 4:05PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks for the update, covingtoncat. Sounds like there might be some room to make a deal. Good luck!

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 5:14PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Not sure how different this set is. This is Canadian pricing but set is apparently barely used and asking less.

They are asking a lot for machines you cannot even see running. I probably would not risk it unless you can get someone qualified to check them out and install them.

Good luck!

Here is a link that might be useful: W1214 & T1413

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 5:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thank you both. @Livebetter, that same set was priced higher a couple of weeks ago, so they were unable to get the 1K asking price.

Depending on my success with finding someone who knows Miele and can install, I will probably start with an as-is price and go from there.

I have a working W/D, larger sized Kemmores. The dryer is fine, but the washer sometimes has spots when I use FS and NO internal water heater. So I would be loosing capacity but upgrading features. We are a family of 5 and would need to adjust our laundry habits. Currently my kids (ages 13, 18 and 20) wait until everything they own is dirty and stuff the hell out of the washer. Then they wonder why their stuff isn't as clean as they'd like or is wrinkled. Ha! But the 18 year old is going off to college next fall and the eldest will be moving on soon, so a short term adjustment if we get this set.

The main concern I have is for king sized coverlets and the like. We have two full, one queen and one king sized bed. I am fairly confident the sheets will not be a problem, but quilts and such? Can anyone share if they've been able to use smaller units for this size bedding?

Off to see if I can find a miele tech. I will have to call some of the higher-end appliance stores to see if I can get a referral.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 5:54PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat, is the W1214 much different from one you are looking at getting?

I was told by Miele Gallery that the compact units could handle King sheets but not a King comforter. They look so small to me - I can't see how it would fit. They swear a Queen comforter will fit though.

I also have a King bed and was on the fence re: the smaller units - I think they are better than the larger size ones Miele makes but with two younger kids (4 & 8) I feel I really need capacity at this point.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 7:40PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Queen comforter? Depends on how thick it is. The W48XX manuals say they can handle a "full-size" comforter, 84"x88". I once tried to load a "full/queen" comforter into my W4840, and it seemed too risky -- the door wouldn't stay closed, so I would've had to hold it closed until it locked. Our full-size polyester-stuffed comforters do fit, when folded according to the instructions in the manual.

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 7:56PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

@ Livebetter. The link header has the wrong number. It is the same W1213 in the txt line. I believe the dryer is also the same. I hate the idea of having to go to a commercial laundromat to wash my bed covers. hmmm

    Bookmark   December 29, 2010 at 1:00AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat, I've been having this "internal" debate with myself for months now.

I've been to the Miele Gallery 3 separate times to see the units and speak with them.

From what I've seen/read, the smaller units are better units. Unfortunately, I think the capacity is too small. They are more "European" and (I'm assuming so someone correct me if I'm wrong) I think it's because they don't have the space for larger units there. You always see these small machines located in kitchens etc ... (at least in the UK).

We have the space for larger capacity units so why wouldn't we get those? I'm with you, I'm not lugging my bedding to the Laundromat - no way. Maybe if my largest bed was a queen and I didn't have kids who will eventually be teenagers with LOTS of laundry.

Even the Miele W48XX units are smaller than many available now. From what I've read these were created by Miele for the NA market and they are missing some of the features of the smaller units. Some feel they are not as well designed.

Ideally, I would have a smaller Miele set upstairs and a larger capacity set in my basement laundry room (perfect world) :)

I'm looking to upgrade my 10 year old Frigidaire set in January (waiting for some special offers). Miele did not run any promotions in December so I'm hoping they have something good for January. I also happen to live close to a Miele "Unboxed" store that sells items that have no box or have very minor scratches - if I can get a really good price on the Miele W48XX than that will be even better.

Everyday I waffle back and forth. I was 90% convinced to go with the W48XX set but some days I read something that makes me think ... "I don't know". Definitely keep us updated on what you get and how you like it.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2010 at 10:15AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

HI @ livebetter (waving)! You and I seem to be having the same debate. I have visited that unboxed store (on the web) and it is on the wrong side of the country for me (I'm in NW Washington). I called a couple of Miele dealers locally who suggested looking at the Asko's for the 240 voltage and the more euro features.

The W48XX are still rated by most as fabulous machines, but a new one is pricey. If I were replacing a non working (or near dead) unit, I would be looking for the larger capacity and the warranty. But I also know I'd have a really, really hard sell with the MInister of Finance.

It is worth the risk to purchase second hand machines?

I think I"m going to make an appointment with the sellers and bring over a typical load of laundry and see how it goes. I don't mind adjusting my laundry routine for slightly smaller loads and longer washes in exchange for cleaner clothes. But the laundromat thing for the bedding carries a HUGE ick factor, not to mention the inconvenience.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2010 at 3:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

As far as the ability to have a 220V machine that heats to 200°F, I think the need is overblown. I had an Asko W6761, which is a smaller 24-in Euro sized machine. I believe the capacity was just around 2.0 cuft or slightly smaller. I sold it and got a W4842 for the larger capacity.

I have to tell you, I don't at all miss the super high temps of the Asko. I've never had the need to wash anything over 140°F since getting the Mieles in March/April of this year. In Europe they struggle with tiny water heaters, small spaces, and extremely hard water. Their machines make sense - over there! While it would be nice to get a 4.0+ cuft machine with the ability to do a boil wash, it's hardly ever necessary and the US market just doesn't demand such a product. Believe me, if there was a large enough demand we would see the machines. Whirlpool, GE, Maytag, etc. would sell you a turd that could heat itself to 500°F and explode if there was a market for it.

    Bookmark   December 29, 2010 at 7:23PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Gah sshrivstava, you're killing me! I am really struggling with the loss in capacity. I appreciate your chiming in, though.

The build quality of ANY miele would be a huge step up from what I am currently using.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2010 at 1:23PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

From my experience the W48XX series is well built and performs like a champ. However, its suspension/balancing system is pretty basic and the machine will vibrate to some degree. I would not install these machines on a 2nd floor under any circumstances.

If you are looking for technological bling, go with LG or Samsung. If you want a solid performer designed and built to last 20 years, go with Miele. Be aware that Asko has an XXL unit that is larger than Miele, however I've read reports that this machine is just a rebadged Asian machine that has some major vibration issues.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2010 at 3:16PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

My laundry "room" (about the size of a closet) is on the main floor. As I repel technology, no bling needed here. Prefer solid performance to bling factor, every time.

I was also looking possibly at the Speed Queen and Asko's too when replacement became necessary, but then this opportunity fell in my lap.

    Bookmark   December 30, 2010 at 6:46PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Went to look at W/D yesterday. It is much, much smaller than my "supersize me" Kenmore HE3. I mean, much. Wow. I thought I had done the math well enough to understand the difference btw 2.5 and 3.8 cf adequately, but seeing is believing. Honestly, I think it holds a tad more than 1/2 of what my current washer holds.

The porthole is small, but interior is deceptively larger. I was able to fit a king size set of flannel sheets OR a king size coverlet without a problem, but that is basically the max.

I can make whatever adjustments necessary to my laundry routine. My kids, however, not so sure.

For those of you with these smaller sized units, can you give me an example of the amounts and kinds of loads you normally do? How many pairs of jeans or towels (regular or bathsheets or beach )? Or for white loads: how many mens undershirts, socks and underwear can you fit and still have enough room for proper movement?

As Livebetter and s...stava have indicated, I struggle with the loss of capacity. My current W/D ARE working, But I have been frustrated with the cleaning fabilities of the washer for sometime. I work around it, but don't like it. The dryer is fine, no problem. Huge and works well, although basic.

Under normal circumstances, $1,900 is a pretty large leap for us financially, which would be my cost for a new 48XX washer. I can get this set for around 1/2 that price.

The dryer is model T1413, not 1403.

All things created equal WWYD? Any advice very much welcomed and appreciated.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2011 at 6:02PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat - I have a Danby, about the same capacity of the machine that you are looking at. For a jeans load, I get about 7 pairs in there. Now that is using a mix of my DD-16 size 0s, mine size 10 and DS - 34/30's. Most of which are DD's. Whites provide a bit more room, I'd say 10 men's large T-shirts w/about 10 pairs of socks. There are 4 of us in the house DD - 16, DS-23, DH and myself. I do quite a few loads a week and while I love my machine, it's soon going to give up the ghost and I will get a larger capacity. I generally have 2-3 loads of jeans/week. 3-5 dark loads, 2-3 light loads, 2 white and 1-2 delicate, plus 3 loads of sheets and 2 loads of towels. I could probably cut that by 1/2 to 2/3 with a larger capacity. Don't get me wrong, I love my Danby and will miss it dearly as it offers all the goodies of a Euro small washer. I will end up giving up most of that when I change. Hope that helps.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2011 at 6:56PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks BDM, that is helpful. How many towels on average fit it a load (are they standard, larger, plush or mixed sizes? Seven pairs of smaller to average size vs. around 14 for my DS' 32/24's. So around 1/2 sounds about right.

I think I got a pretty good feel for the size with my comparison.

I never thought that an opportunity to get a Miele at a do-able price would happen anytime in the immediate future. I always figured that I would have to wait until at least 2 of the 3 kids were out of college before we could afford one, by which time the size debate would be moot as we would be near empty nesters. But I digress ....

I too, want the Miele goodies, but am struggling with size and budget. This particular option works for the budget, but the size is a concern. I can not manage the finances for a 48XX and this time or in the next 3 years probably, maybe even longer.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2011 at 9:27PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

covingtoncat, have you been following this thread?

Urgh!!! Soon I'm just going to go to Sears and buy an LG pair ... I mean really ... they paid all that money for Miele and they're still not happy.

It sure doesn't help our decisions.

I think if the small size Miele are your only ones you will find them small. I think you could get by but I think you'd be happier with larger capacity. Have you looked at the Bosch Vision 800 (or 500)? I was seriously contemplating them too. They seem very nice. A friend of mine has them and loves them. Still not cheap though but less than Miele.

    Bookmark   January 6, 2011 at 9:46PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

checked out the thread. Meh. Miele has been around too long with too good of a reputation to not expect that there is more to this story.

That being said, I will be p-o'd to the extreme if I get rid of a functioning W/D (probably will donate so no $$$), drop a grand on another set, and then have issues.

GAH! What's a gal to do? If I don't get these units, I will keep what I have until it needs a high cost repair, or fails altogether.

Regardless, a decision must be made soon. Local Miele distributor wants around $300 to pick up set from seller and reinstall at my home with whatever diagnostics they do, about half that if I can get it here on my own and have it waiting for them. Problem is: its a stacked set and I would have to disassemble in order to transport or rent a truck (with a lift) that can move it.

I'm thinking of asking the seller to drop their asking price by the $300 or maybe split the difference. IDK, thoughts?

    Bookmark   January 6, 2011 at 11:13PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat - towels are mostly larger, some fluffy, some not (24x54) or something like that. I'd say 5 or 6 and about 4 wash cloths with them. When my DS was at college, we were ok. It wasn't as much of an issue. Of course my DD grew up while he was away so her clothes not only got bigger, she became a teen, nuf said. Now that DS is back home, it's crazy w/4 adults in the house. I don't see him going anywhere too soon as my DH has ALS and he helps me care for him and I could not do it w/o him here at the house.

I've been looking at the Bosch Vision 500 series. When I stopped in my local Appliance store (where I got my Bosch DW that I love), the man I spoke w/told me that he felt the Bosch were just as good as the Miele in his opinion and he sells the Miele as well, but the price was better, for brand new that is very true by about 1500. He said the whirlpool would cost as much, but that the Bosch was a better machine. I asked about the Mieles but he wasn't really interested in selling them to me.

I know getting a good price on a used set of Mieles is something that would me contemplating too. I don't have that option, soo.... I'll probably be ordering the Bosch in the next week or so. I don't want to give up my Danby, but I've lost all savings by the number of loads I end up doing and my heater is going on the Danby as well.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 12:26AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thank you for the follow-up BDMom. Don't know what large breed you favor, but my former neighbor was a BigDog fan and raised Newfies.

It is great that your son and daughter are able to help you with the care challenges you have. I can see where a higher capacity load machine would help out - a lot.

I would do more research on Bosch v. Miele. While some models have similar build technology and engineering and are still made in Germany, other models are made in the US and Mexico ( I think?) and are NOT considered as reliable or as well built. I can't remember the specifics, but I read it here on GW, so maybe you can find it thru search or a Miele Guru will chime in. Where it is manufactured may not be as important, but WHAT it is manufactured with (ie plastics vs. metals) would be to me.

My current conundrum is based on the opportunity to get the build and use quality of the brand at a price I can handle, while having to give up the larger capacity that I am used to. The timing is a bit off, but I would NOT be able to afford a new, larger unit at this time.

Thank you all for your replies. They are much appreciated.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 1:33AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat - I have a large German Shepherd. He is the biggest teddybear.

It's interesting between the Bosch and Miele when it comes to temps. Bosch's cold 60 - Miele - 86, B Warm - 95 M warm - 104, B Hot - 125, M - very warm - 122, B Baby care - 155, M Hot - 140, B Saniatry - 170, M Sanitary - 158.

This is for the Miele 48XX. Bosch 500 Vision. So as you can see there is some crossover. While Miele is warmer at the bottom, Bosch is hotter at the top. I find that quite interesting. Both use a heater and I believe both do a profile wash for stains, starting with cold water and heating incrementally.

Another issue I have is my laundry room. In order to set my machines side by side, I'd have to change out the utility sink, and I can't stack the Miele's. While I do believe the Miele's are built like tanks and would serve me well for a long time, the price and reconstruction really takes it to a whole different level.

The appliance store that I use, deals in mostly all High end stuff. They do carry some lower to satisfy those who cannot or will not spend for quality, but they drop lines that don't perform as soon as their contracts are up. They started years ago as just an appliance service shop and grew into dealership and now have 4 stores. They service everything they sell and they don't like service nightmares are it reflect poorly on them as a company.

I will ask though where the Bosch's are built before I plunk down any cash as well as a return policy.

Good luck trying to get those Miele's, I think they'd be a great deal if you can get it and they are truly in great shape.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 7:59AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

bigdogmom, Bosch is not made in Germany but engineered there. I asked an appliance guy I know before and he said if Miele is a "10", Bosch is "7.5".

I struggle with the durability of Miele. I'm not sure I want a machine for 20 years. I'm sure after 10, there will be many new advancements.

I'm also not 100% convinced they clean better than anything else. I do think they are probably the most gentle on fabrics.

So many other makes (while not as solidly built) have many features that Miele does not offer. VRT (Vibration Reduction Tech) just for one.

I have been patiently waiting for Miele to offer an incentive to buy but nothing yet (here in Canada). I've been seriously considering the Bosch Vision 800 and may end up just going and ordering it.

My laundry is also set up washer on left/dryer on right (which is backward to Miele so I would have to live with the doors opening to each other).

I looked at the smaller units and would only be happy with them if they were a second set (not a primary one). I want to be able to wash 2 sets of double sheets at one time. I want to cut down on the number of loads per week.

I'm anxious to hear what you end up doing and how you like it. Keep us posted!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 10:41AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

livebetter - I'm sorry I should have answered better, I will check whether the Bosch is made here in the USA, NC I believe or Mexico. I think they have plants both places, or so I've heard.

There is a lot to be said for a machine that last 20 years. While the American models do offer some things Miele doesn't, they still cost 1/2 the price, but generally only last 7 years, so you could end up buying 3 different sets over the life of one Miele and spending more in the long run. However, you do need to be able to afford a Miele upfront and have your laundry room set up the right direction. Actually, mine is set up better for Miele than Bosch, assuming I would set them side by side, bite the bullet to change out the utility sink, and was able to afford the cost up front.

Before we moved the laundry area, a must when we put in a new electrical box, because the builders had put it over the laundry tray 40 years ago before we owned the place, I was still set up better for Miele. I will tell you, it is a huge hassle to have to lift everything over the doors all the time. I could not wait to stack my current set just to get away from that.

However, the Bosch set will be a lot taller, and I'm only 5'1". I've thought seriously about biting the bullet to change the sink and get pedestals. I'm still thinking. I'll probably just stack for now and then if I want to change it later, I can.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 12:23PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Well, after talking to a friend who is a fellow laundry nut, I still can not decide. HELP! She made some very good points towards saving longer and getting a larger unit with warranty. However, this still leaves me with a washer which requires frequent re-washings (incurring extra costs of time and product) and is 4.5 years old.

Local Miele distributor charges $175 to install and test machine, plus additional fees (another $125) to pick it up and transport from sellers. I could move them myself, but it would require disassemble of stacked set and then putting that back together at my end. Potential for damage? Level of difficulty? IDK.

Please remember, unit has been sitting in storage for a couple of years. So could internal parts be dried out or even worse? Also, owners are on well water with high mineral content in the water. What could the possible complications from that be? If parts need to be replaced, would they be available on a discontinued model?

All these issues are running around my brain. I'm on overload. If I go forward, what price should I offer? I can't verify the units are operational until I invest a few hundred dollars. I'm thinking I should offer less money for the units based on these factors. And ask that any repairs or parts be paid for by them (advertised in perfect working order) or that they agree to take it back and refund my money.

I'd still be out $300, though. I'm really struggling with this. WWYD?

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 9:08PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I would purchase new, and the latest generation of the Miele. Why? During my Miele tech visits I was told that the parts for the older units are being less stocked so lead times for parts might be an issue for the older units and the older series you are interested in.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 9:25PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

So let's say you can talk the sellers down to $2,000 for the pair. Add $300 for the Miele Man to move them and assure they are not DOA (I don't think there will be any more warranty than that). You're now in for $2,300.

How much life do you expect out of these machines? If something goes wrong in four months/a year (on machines which sat for a couple of years, drying out, and ran on hard water when they were used), are you up for another $150-plus-parts-and-labor charge from the Miele Man? What if you only get another 7 years out of this washer and dryer? What is the price difference between the $2300-2500 you'd be spending and buying new Mieles which come with a warranty and a store which will stand behind the sale?

Will you regret the smaller capacity? Will it mean doing more loads/spending more time on laundry (isn't the point of this to make life easier?)?

If we were not talking about Mieles, I don't think we'd even be having this conversation. Personally, unless I could do this deal for a lot less than $2500, I'd walk. I think it's too high a price relative to new product for all the risk you're taking on. And if you're not the gambling type, it may be best to pretend this offer never happened. Or, as I mentioned in an earlier post, let the sellers give you a call when they truly decide to get rid of these machines for cheap (which by then, of course, will be that much older and dustier and who knows about parts).

    Bookmark   January 8, 2011 at 12:40PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi Steve!

Sellers dropped the asking price to 1,100 after I mentioned 3 ads for the same set @ 1K. Still if you ad $300 to that, at 1,400 I am within 5 hundred of a NEW unit with warranty (but still facing tax and installation charges). In that scenario I keep my current dryer, get the larger capacity but loose some customization and super hot water capabilities. I wouldn't be able to replace my current washer for about another year.

If I could get the price down to 700 or 800 (I still have to pay to have them tested) with an agreement to refund or repair if there are issues, that would be more attractive. I would still be facing future repairs and potentially longer wait times for parts.

Under the circumstances does that seem like a reasonable offer?


    Bookmark   January 8, 2011 at 4:55PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat and Livebetter - well I bought that Bosch Vision 500 (WFVC544) washer and the 500 Vision (WTVC533) dryer today. I decided to go with a color this time (Anthricite) basically a charcoal type color, with the stack kit that includes the pull out tray. It will take approx 2 weeks for them to come in due to the color. I could have had white in a week. The salesman said be sure of the color because you'll have it for 15 years. I sure hope he's right about that part.

The difference between the Bosch and Miele washer was $800. That almost paid for the dryer.

Livebetter - you said you were considering the Vision 800 series, any particular reason for going up to the 800 and not just the 500?

I also bought some Persil Megapearls and Persil sensative. I'm going to give them a try between now and when the washer comes. That way I can determine if the detergent is better than what I normally use and how much improvement I see from the new washer. Do either of you use Persil?

I'll keep you posted once they arrive.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2011 at 8:27PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi "Mom." As a holiday gift to myself I ordered some Persil in powder form. I got the Megapearls for whites, colors and sensitive. Three different formulations. I have been experimenting with different HE detergents and FS for the last couple of months due to some negative reactions to the super concentration in new formulations and the new smell of April Fresh Downy (can't stand it). Remember the "new" coke debacle - LOL?!

Anyway, I have run two loads with Persil for whites and one for colors. The smell is much stronger in the beginning and much mellower in the end. It is herbal/woodsy to me. I like it. I haven't used the sensitive yet. Hoping I can tolerate the regular formulation due to costs. I did notice a little bit of eye itchiness, but it could have been due to FS scent, too. I will have to spend more time with it before I can be accurate. Would love to read what YOU think.

Are the Bosch's the larger capacity?

I am still debating the used Miele's. I would need to spend $300 to get them here, installed and tested - kinda risky if there are any problems discovered. I would then be out $$ and probably would have gotten rid of my functioning units (need the space) beforehand. I want to have the Miele distributor for the area perform this service. I know it is expensive, but they would take the care to move everything properly. I don't know if current owner has moving struts and units are stacked, so that is an additional hassle.

Considering I will have to pay quite a bit to have them tested, I plan to ask the seller to accept less than the $1,100 asking price. I would have to figure out how to move them regardless, but the fact that they are not able to be tested and have been sitting for a couple of years is a big risk. It seems reasonable to me to ask the sellers to absorb some of that cost.

Fair? Let me know your thoughts. Any suggestions much appreciated. I find myself in analysis paralysis.

Cheers and congrats on your new purchase.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2011 at 9:13PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

bigdogmom, woo hoo! so excited for you. Clearly you are much more decisive than I :)

I like the 800 for mostly cosmetic reasons. The door ring is stainless vs. chrome and a few other things. It has a "slightly" higher RPM (1200 vs 1150) - no biggie.

I was actually looking at the 500 again today. A local dept. store has them on sale.

I too am in analysis paralysis! Ugh .. I will wait (not so patiently) to hear your review when you get them.

I can only use Persil Sensitive. I gave up overly scented laundry a few years ago and just can't go back. I've tried regular Megaperls but the lingering scent is too much for me. All the formulas I have tried work well. What I like most about them is the rinse very well - no suds or residue left when I use them.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2011 at 11:00PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat and Livebetter - so far I have done 2 loads in the Persil Universal Megapearls. Since I have a water softener, they told me to use only 1 teaspoon of the detergent per load actually they said that before I mentioned the softener. Anyway, I did that for the jeans I ran It seemed to me, that they seemed drier than normal when I took them out of the wash. Well I must have been right because when they were done in the dryer there were not damp spots at the seams like I usually have. I did everything the same as usual and it's still my old machines. Then I did a load of really dirty towels, so I used 1 1/2 tsp of the megapearls. I'll wait till they are done in the dryer, but they look cleaner to me, esp one dishtowel that's been rather stained. Sometimes it's hard to tell when it's wet, so I will hold my thoughts on that a bit.

As to the scent. I could smell it when I started the washer, the jeans had basically no smell when I moved them to the dryer and nothing now that they are dry. The towels had a bit more scent to them when moving to the dryer, again I'll have to wait for that load to finish drying to tell what's left.

Sooo, my conclusion is maybe if the scent is too strong, maybe you are using a bit too much. I don't know how much you are using, but maybe try cutting back a bit.

I also picked up some of the sensitive. I don't think they had the one for colors there, so I'll have to order that one on line.

I don't use fabric softener at all, don't like how it makes my clothes feel and if they sit for a while, esp towels they smell yuck when wet. I know it's the softener as I have no issues with my machine and don't smell it any other time.

Covington - if you want my honest opinion. I'm thinking you are really worried about the Miele set and maybe because of that you should forgo the purchase. You could get brand new same sized Bosch Axxis set for just over 2000. If you really want a smaller set with high temps, that might be an option to consider.

The Bosch book says the 500's are 4.4 cf, where my Danby is about 1.6 cf. They look cavernous compared to what I have.

Live - I haven't seen the 800 in person and the book they gave me at the Appliance store that covers everything Bosch, doesn't mention the stainless vs. the chrome. Other than the 50 extra rpm on the spin, there is just 1 extra cycle that I can see and that is active wear. 500 has Jeans, where the 800 has darks. Not sure if there are many other differences.

I will give a full review once I get my set.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2011 at 12:10AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

bigdogmom_pa - I don't think you will be happy with the results using only 1 teaspoon. What you don't see on the Persil package is the fact that the dosage chart applies to machines smaller than 6 kg. Anything that is a 4.0+ cuft washer is at least 8kg. On the German Persil web site, they say to add an extra 45 ml (3 TBSP) to any load that is expect to exceed 6 kg.

So if you look at the package, for soft water and normal soiling you are to use 65 ml (4 TBSP) + 65 ml (3 TBSP) for high capacity. That is 7 TBSP, which is 21 teaspoons. And you are using only 1 teaspoon, or less than 5% of the dosage recommended on the package. There is no way that small amount of detergent is going to do anything to clean your clothes. You may as well just forego the detergent and wash in plain water - the results will be the same.

To avoid mold, mildew and "gunk" in your washer over the long term I would urge you to start with at least 1/2 of the above dose, or 3.5 TBSP, and adjust up or down as needed to ensure your clothes are getting clean and rinsing properly. Surely a single teaspoon of detergent in a 4.4 cuft machine will do nothing, and you may find your clothes starting to feel rough, stiff, and graying over time.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2011 at 11:37AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I have a 1215T and matching dryer and a 2 teen agers 2 adult house in So California. I have had them for about 6.5 years and I am very happy.

We separate laundry into 4 bins plus a batch per week of "dog" laundry.

Hot/Whites - hot (I rarely use the sanitize setting)

Sanitize is like a laundry "nuke" blasting even the most rancid pieces clean as a whistle I've cleaned shop rags I used on a boat bilge during an engine swap, and rags I used when repacking the wheel bearings on my toyhauler- Sanitize on a 220V Miele is a weapon of careful use with the ability to cook fabric into a pulp if used incorrectly.

Regular-jeans/ older towels on cold not "no heat"
Delicate light- warm
Delicate dark - cold or no heat
Dog laundry is usually done on very warm
Bedding- 3 queen beds a week - kids done on cold , our done with silk washing

Rarely are they even completely full once laundering as indicated by observing the level against the capacity "lip" indicator, and there is rarely a time when we have more that one load per bin so we would gain little from more capacity.

If you are a household that just jams stuff in willy nilly regardless of fabric and wash temp then Id say one would have a capacity issue.

We use persil megaperls for white and for color. Usually a little less than a 1/4 cup or about what the other poster said 3.5 -4 TBS per load. This stuff works so well and lasts so long I havent bothered to even try anything else, but the perwool, or what is now persil silk and wool.
Prior to this I used tide my whole life. No problems with tide,-that said this stuff is better.

I had my units rinse water level raised one "bump". The rest of the units levels are factory/ minimal.

Our laundry is super clean fresh, and long lived the SS ladles make a big difference vs the plastic ones over time. My elastic items now seemingly last forever with little to no degradation of the elasticity shorts socks underwear probably more of a testament to proper drying than washing.

I have a buddy that ended up for whatever reason with an identical pair of summer shorts to mine and wow what a difference a real washer and dryer and proper care make. Color was one issue, wear on the fabric another, and the elastic band on his shorts were done after 2 years, whereas mine look almost new and have great elasticity. Same age same piece of clothing.

Id hit up the guys that seems to be complaining about their Meile purchases and make a low ball offer to get off what tehy dont seem to want anyway.

To be fair the washer has broken twice in 6.5 years, once the heater went out, but the unit worked just fine on no heat until the replacement, the other time the units filler solenoid broke and wouldn't stop filling. The first fix took a few weeks as the parts came as a kit and I only wanted one part. The second time the part was on the guys truck and he fixed it quickly and cheaply and modified the rinse level to a slightly higher water level.

These are great products, and Id have NO issue buying a used set.

Uncle Dave

    Bookmark   January 9, 2011 at 12:46PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks Everyone.

Uncle Dave, you're a hoot! How many loads on average, does your family do? Is it mostly done by one or two people or do the kids do their own? If they do, was it difficult for them to learn how to use the washer?

I'm beginning to feel less concerned about the capacity of the washer. The next challenge: price and condition. The seller said the units were working perfectly when taken out of service after 2.5 years of use. Sitting in garage since. They LOOK well cared for, almost new, except for some discoloration in the detergent dispenser (due to well water). Unless my radar is WAAAY off, they are being truthful.

The Miele distributor in this area will move, install and evaluate the machines for about $300. That seems like a lot of money, but part of that is to move them, which I would be paying anyway. As they are a stacked set, and heavy, it is worth it to me to pay to have it done professionally. I would not want anything to be damaged in the move.

My concern is there may be some issues due to the time its been sitting and the well water. When I spoke to the distributor, he gave me a few things to look out for (dried out seals), and their was no problem.

The more I work through this, the more convinced I am that I want these machines. But only if I can get the price to around 1K (including all fees) and some agreement from sellers that they will fix or take back if there are problems.

I would hold my current units in the garage just in case. Hubs will have a cow, but ......

I am going to call the distributorship tomorrow and get a few more questions answered. If its a go after that, I will move forward.

@ S--stava: For 3.8 cf with water on the soft side, should I start with 3 or 4 Tbs for non heavily soiled clothing? Are dosages the same for all Persil Powders?

    Bookmark   January 9, 2011 at 4:08PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

S--Stava - Yes I am only currently using 1 tsp, but I do not have the Bosch 4.4 cf machines here at this time. I still have my Danby 1.6 cf washer. Thus far I've done 7 loads with the Persil Megapearls. In the very dirty towel load (used for cleaning muddy dog paws etc) I used 1.5 tsp and all loads have come out very clean. I watched the wash as I have a household water softener. I did see evidence of detergent. Minor bubbles, just enough that you know it's there. When we put the softener in years ago, I had a traditional TL and they told me then(softener people) to only use a tsp. The sale people where I just ordered my Bosch set could not stress enough that the Persil was very concentrated and not to use more than 1 TBS, but the really want you to use 1 tsp. They sell the Persil, why would they want to tell me to use so little when they could sell me more detergent if I used more? Also, they would not want to have me think that my new washers were not working.

I don't know if you have a whole house water softener, but it really does make a huge difference in how much detergent you need. Don't worry I'm anal enough about my wash that I will keep a very close eye on it. I will adjust as needed. Once I get my new, much larger machines, I will work to make sure I'm using the right amount of detergent.

I've been using FL's for years and I will work to get the amount of detergent correct as I do anytime I change detergents. I was using just 1 TBS of my old detergent, I had tried higher amounts, but had issues as my machine is so small.

Also I've never, ever had an issue with mold or mildew in my machines. I don't use fabric softener and always use powder detergent. I always leave the door and drawer open.

The reason I've ordered new machines is two fold. First, the heater on my Danby has broken and I cannot get it fixed. I want to be able to do a true "hot" wash often. Since I can no longer buy a new Danby, I decided to go larger. I separate my laundry by color, fabric and how dirty it is. And currently I'm doing at least 2 loads of the exact same type of laundry. I want to be able to cut that to 1 load. That will save both time and money.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 5:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi, covingtoncat. Sorry I haven't logged on to THS before this.

I think you're going to have a hard time getting the sellers to take the machines back if they're seriously out of whack (besides, who gets to pay the Miele Man another $300 to disassemble and move them back?). You're buying as-is. I wouldn't worry about the availability of parts at this point -- if Miele is selling appliances designed for a 20-year service life, odds on they're not going to dump parts inventory after the five years since these were built. It will happen someday, but who knows what will happen by then?

If the sellers are still talking with you, then there's not likely anyone else after that washer and dryer. That gives you a little more bargaining room. I'd offer an even grand and you have the Miele Man pick them up. You get machines with what should be a good service life remaining at half the price of new and your risk is then that either the hard water or a coincidental failure makes it necessary to pay for another service call (which you may someday have had to get for your current machine anyway).

At that price, I'd go for it. And, since you really want only the washer, you might be able to sell the dryer to further defray the cost of the purchase?

    Bookmark   January 10, 2011 at 10:08PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks Steve-O!

I was unable to call the MM (Miele Man) today to confirm all the details, but I know the price is basically around 300. Seems like a lotto pick it up and move it less than 10 miles, but it is what it is. I need to learn exactly all that covers to move forward with an offer to the sellers.

I was hoping to get it all done for 1K flat (before moving costs), but that's been blown by the $300 fee. I was prepared to offer $800 (due in part to having to pay a MM additional service costs because I can't even run a test load). BUT, I don't want to loose the units over $100, so maybe $900 and ask what they would be willing to do if the units were not working on hook up or needed some repair. The MM suggested offering them a partial payment until the units are verified as operational.

It would be ideal if I could keep my current dryer, but I don't believe the splitter Miele offers to run the washer and dryer off one 20amp circuit can be used for anything other than Miele products. Can anyone familiar with 240 Miele's chime in here?

I don't think they have anyone else interested at this time.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 1:53AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

S..Stava - I didn't have my Persil in front of me when typing my reply yesterday. I have been all over their site and cannot find the info you are referring to about adding additional soap to a larger FL. Do you have a link you could provide, I really would like to read it.

Ok, so while sitting here reading the Persil, it is very interesting to me to note the dosage changes for soft to hard water. If you clothes are lightly soiled there is no change. However, there is a change once they start becoming more soiled.

So I decided to look at what type of concentration they were recommending and I looked at the hand washing example printed on the bottom of the bag. In that example it does not take water hardness/softness into consideration. It simply states 22ml to 10l of water. Or for us here in the US, 1.5 TBS/2.5 gallons of water. So my new washer that is coming tells me that it will use 13 gals for the entire load of laundry. Meaning the wash cycle uses somewhere between 4.33 - 6.5 gals of water. Until I sit and watch an entire cycle I won't know how many rinses the machine actually does per load.

In my Danby, the normal rinsing is 3 and I can add a 4th. So water per load needs to be divided by 4. Based upon that calculation (my Danby book doesn't tell me gals/load) and just using the 13 gal that I read from the Bosch book, that means 3.25 gals per cycle. (I'm basing it on that for two reasons. 1) my Danby is small 1.6 cf and it's 7 years old and 2) manufacturers have continued to decrease the amount of water used. Given those 2 facts, I'm guessing my Danby may actually use the same or more than what my new Bosch will)

If I look at the Persil's rec of 1.5 TBS per 2.5 gals, then I get .6 TBS per gal of water or 1.95 TBS per load. However, I now need to factor in my whole house water softener and my experience based upon other laundry detergents that are not as concentrated as Persil. When I have used 2 T of other detergents per load, it is too much in my current machine. I have learned that I can only use 1 T and I get clean, soft laundry - no greying, no stiffness and no residual detergent in the clothing. Ok, based upon years of experience and experimentation w/other detergents, I move forward and look at the concentration level of Persil. That tells me that 1 T may be too much per load. So, I start w/1 Tsp and adjust as needed. I would much rather, go up in detergent use than have my machine get gunked up, something I've never had to deal with and I don't want to start.

Coveingtoncat - didn't mean to hijack this thread talking about Persil and correct detergent usage. Please forgive me.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 9:44AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

BD"Mom", No worries. Education is what its all about. I'm curious too. I live in the PNW and we generally have pretty soft water around here. Right now I have a larger capacity machine, so what ever you learn would be of benefit. SStava has a larger capacity Miele, her/his dosage amounts (taking in to account water hardness) are of benefit.

I too, found the dosages confusing and have never used the product before. It is expensive, so I don't want to waste it. But, I want to use the correct amount as a starting point and then adjust for soil levels. I generally start with the manufacture recs, and move on from there. My assumption was that it was based for front loaders, smaller than the US Supersize Me capacity.

S--Stava and other Persil lovers, what say you?

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 11:44AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

This is taken from the German Persil site.

I used Google Chrome to translate so it's rough.

Correct dosing

How can you optimize the dosing.

With the right amount of detergent and the laundry is really clean.

Using too much detergent charged not only your wallet but also the environment. Give too little, however, remain in the machine, possibly the most stubborn stains on the clothes back.

So what is the optimal amount? This depends on how dirty the laundry, loading the washing machine and water hardness.

For every product there is a dose recommendation.


1 scoop = 85 ml

Mini Load (1 / 2 wash load): 22 ml less accessible meter please.

Maximum load (6-7kg): Please always more ml dose 45th

Hand washing: / 4 dosing (22 ml) Megaperls Persil completely dissolve in water 10l first Then add the laundry and wash off quickly.

Soil Level slightly normal strong very strong
(8.4 to 14 dH)45 ml 85 ml 130 ml 175 ml
hard / very hard
(> 14 dH) 45 ml 110 ml 150 ml 195 ml

Hard to show the table. I've attached a link. Does adding the load kilograms help?

Here is a link that might be useful: Persil Megaperls dosing

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 12:13PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

covingtoncat - I try to use manufacturer's rec's, but given my very soft water due to the whole house softener, I generally have to start at 1/2 of their dose. Kind of a general rule I received from the softener people if not using their detergent. So I usually start there. Which in this case would be 1.5 TBS. However, given my past experience and the rec of the new machine dealer telling me at least 5 times to only use 1tsp and the max 1 tbs because it was so concentrated, I started with the 1tsp. I will keep playing until I find the amount that works best for me. Right now I'm trying 1.5 tsp, however, the 1 tsp seemed to work quite well.

Livebetter - thanks for trying to translate. That chart is the same as on the back of the package. It shows 1 scoop = 85 ml, however, unless the scoop made it all the way to the bottom of the box, I cannot find one in my box or in the bag of sensitive. So I have a set of measuring spoons in my laundry room that I use.

I ran the conversion for the weight of clothing which comes out to 13-15 lbs. My Danby's max is 10 lbs, so a smaller load than is figured for the chart. I'm probably 1/2 their load as I don't pack my machine. So in my case it would be the 22 ml less or 23 ml or 1.5 TBS .

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 2:49PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

So it sounds like you should base the dosage recs on the packaging for a smaller capacity (6K) machine, the more traditional Euro size. For larger US machines based on size alone, you'd need more detergent, but would also need to adjust for water softness and soil levels. I would start with the package recs as a minimum and go up or down from there depending.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 6:23PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

covingtoncat, interesting ... I was reading over the manuals today for the Miele W4842 (and Bosch Vision 800) and noticed this comment on the Miele. I notice someone already posted it above but I'm processing it ...

"Full size" comforters up to 84" x 88" /
213 x 224 cm can be washed.

Theoretically then, I can't even wash my queen and def not my king in a W4842. You will never get them in the small one for sure.

The manual says to avoid overstuffing the machine as things won't get clean if not allowed some movement.

As for my Persil dosage, I really have no idea what size my washer is. It's older so I know it's not huge but it's labelled as large capacity so not too small. I guess it's 3 something cf. I use approx 2-1/2 tbsp of Persil which is just under the 45 ml recommendation. I can definitely smell it even after 3 rinses. I'm curious to see how a new machine will handle it. I'm using the color Megaperls on a load now so we'll see but every time I try it it's too much scent for me. My water is moderately hard/hard (8.63).

When I use my Persil (Polish one) which is powder, I use about 1/4 cup.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 9:03PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hello Again! I was able to reach the Service Mgr at the distributorship this afternoon (different person than the last time) and the news is even more confusing. It seems that there are TWO levels of service personnel: Installers and Technicians. The $300 price would be for the INSTALLERS service, picking up the machines from sellers, moving to and installing in my home. Installing means re-stacking, leveling, running to confirm fill, wash, spin and drain cycles and checking for leaks in washer, etc. Basically what I would be able to do if I ran it myself at current owner's location plus moving. An ADDITIONAL $160 - $180 for a TECHNICIAN to run diagnostics and PC updates (if available). If the units were already in house, they would make sure they are level, operational, no leaks, etc for that same price ($180). So even with my crappy math skills, that means a total of nearly $500 for them to pick up, INSTALL and have a TECH come and do their thing. On top of the asking price on the table of $1,100, we're now up to possibly $1,600.

Not happening. Way too much.

So, I'm back at square one, basically. Sigh......

I am debating on sharing this info with the sellers and telling them that price is too high considering all other costs to be incurred with no guarantee that additional parts or repairs may be needed. Chances are they would face this same scenario with any potential buyer. I would really like to work with them and see if we could work a deal, but at this point it just seems like too much hassle and risk, especially for the price.

One last thought: Can anyone offer advice as to how difficult it would be to un-stack and transport these on my own? I have a decent sized SUV (Toyota 4-Runner) and can make more that one trip (they are only a few miles from me). The service manager said it is not that difficult to do ....... and his suggestion for the smart money was to move myself and then have the TECHNICIAN come in. Sounds reasonable, but I really don't know what I would be getting myself into.

GAH !!!

    Bookmark   January 11, 2011 at 11:52PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter - Did the Miele Manual say that you could not put anything bigger than a full size in the machine? I ask because I'm wondering how many people in the UK actually have queen or king sized beds.

Covingtoncat - As to moving the machines yourself. First of all, the washer will be a tank. Based upon my Danby, you will need 2 strong men to lift it. They are heavy 250-300lbs. Secondly, does the owner still have the transport bolts? They are a must and I am going to assume the Miele movers would bring and extra set just in case. The dryer won't be as heavy, but still must be moved by two people when unstacking and re-stacking. If you have that available to you with people you trust, then moving it would be fine. However, remember the washer needs to be moved upright, no laying it down on it's back or side. That applies to all FL machines. Just some food for thought.

As to others buying the machines, it's a strange thing. If someone is not familiar with Miele, they are not going to bite for the price and size is my guess. However, even someone familiar with them may not realize what they "should" do. Hard to guess on that. Maybe tell the owners that if they ever decide to come down in price to give you a call, but at this point you feel their price it too high. Trust me, it can happen. When we bought our current home, we gave an offer to the owners (they were selling it themselves). They didn't like it and we were not pushed to move, so we said, if you change your mind, give us a call. A few weeks later they agreed to our price and called us. you just never know.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 8:21AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

bigdogmom, that's how I read it. The fact that it says, "up to" would tell me nothing larger should be washed. The Bosch Vision is slightly larger but I didn't see any guidelines in their manual as to load size. One of them did say how you should fill the drum for various fabrics. For example, cotton could be full but synthetics should only be half.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 10:10AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Sellers emailed me last night and I replied with the basics of my previous post. I would very much like to have the machines, but with all the additional fees, the price is too close to buying new.

I will wait to hear from them again. Bigdogmom, I was thinking of suggesting to sellers that if they could not sell them for their asking price, to get back in touch with me. Basically I am facing at minimum around $200 over whatever it sells for to have any kind of certified Miele intervention, and it goes up from there. I'm not sure what their bottom line is, but I don't want to go over $1K total.

Will continue to research 48xx, Speed Queen, and look forward to your review of the Bosch's.

Many thanks.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 11:52AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter - I must not have read you post correctly sorry. When I get my Bosch, I'm going to see if my comforter will fit. It's supposed to be a Queen, but it appears larger. I will let you know if it fits in the drum. Then I'll decide about trying to wash it. I just went back and re-read your post. 84x88 is a Queen sized comforter or a Full sized bedspread. Take a look at the dimensions 84x88. A Queen sized bed is 60x80, so to have the comforter hang down 12" on each side, it would be 84 wide. A king sized bed is 72 wide. I quilt and a king would be 96 wide.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 1:02PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

With higher mattresses these days, I find the size of quilts etc is getting larger too (otherwise they don't hang properly down the side).

I took this sizing from LandsEnd just for reference (I've purchased some bedding from them and everything always fits so nicely). I know the covers on my king are 108" wide and we have a pretty high mattress - it could really be a bit wider.

My sons both have full/double beds and their quilts are 84" wide. Neither of them have high mattresses as I purchased them all natural latex/wool ones and the quilts hang nicley - much smaller would be too small.

Twin 69 x 90
Double 84 x 90
Queen 90 x 95
King 108 x 95

I have washed both my boys' quilts in my current machine so I'm sure I'd have no problem with a new larger one. I'm still not sure I'd get the king size in there though ... hmmm ... I really don't want to get into super capacity like Electrolux or the new square door LG I saw.

Here is a link that might be useful: LandsEnd bedding size chart

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 1:49PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hello to everyone, sorry to drop in like this!

I'm a new member and came here doing searches on the Mieles.

I am basically in the same boat as covingtoncat (trying to buy top quality but on a budget).

I too am looking at second hand and debating vs. new.

If it can help anyone following this thread Miele will bring back the 10 year warranty promo on the W48xx and T98xx series. Promo will start next week according to my sources.

The new (for us Canadians) W4802 & W4842 are available but the T9802 or T9822 are not here yet, apparently they still have plenty of stock of the older model.

Even with the promo does it justify the extra money for the Mieles, I don't know???

Hope this helps some people who need to make a decision.


    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 4:17PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Miele told me in an email that the T9822 would be here (in Canada) late December/early January?

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 5:24PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

PS. I received an email from someone who told me they are offering free installation starting on the 17th but you have to call and ask for it - weird ... I wonder what's true? I guess we'll find out.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 5:30PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Welcome Mihai914! That is interesting news. @ Livebetter: Do tell. More deets, please. Do either of you know if this offer is available for US residents, too?

Hmmm, 10 year warranty and free install? Very tempting. Might have to grovel before the Minister of Finance after all.

Oh, btw, I was able to fit a king size coverlet in the smaller Miele without a problem. I have a hightop (deep) mattress, one of the Westin beds. It just covers to the bottom of the mattress/top of the box springs.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 7:21PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

covingtoncat, I'm pretty sure US and Canada are separate. I also don't think they would run both promotions at the same time. It will be one or the other or neither (if both our sources are wrong). We'll have to wait and see :)

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 9:34PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Sorry Covingtoncat, I think the offer is for Canadian residents only.

It's weird how Miele markets their products, in Canada you can buy the extended 5 or 10 year warranty and in the U.S. only the 5 year is available.

Even if the looney is on par with the U.S. dollar we're still paying a hefty premium on some appliances.

If I buy the washer in Canada, I'll be roughly paying $1000 more (600 in higher price and 400 in taxes) than if I buy the washer in the U.S. and have it delivered at a friend in upstate NY.

The dryer is less painfull in price difference.

Who knows maybe they'll throw a promo for the U.S. also?

If you don't buy the used ones, did you think about splitting the purchase, i.e. buying the washer first and wait for the next promo for the dryer or vice-versa. That's what I may end up doing.

Livebetter, it could be both offers combined as the sales guy was also telling me that the installation was included, I don't know if it's Miele staff or independent though.

Sorry if the thread got sort of highjacked.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2011 at 11:09PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Mihai, that is a total bummer about the promotion being only for Canadian residents. Oh Well.

I still haven't given up the ghost on the used Miele's. I have only declined at the current asking price. IF the seller will come down a bit more in price, then I am still in the game. If not, that's ok too.

As I mentioned in an earlier post, my current units are in working order. I have no issues with my dryer at all. The only reason I would keep the W/D together with the Miele's is because both units run on 240 volts and come with a box that runs the washer and the dryer without the need to upgrade electrical. Plus they are stacked and the 240's are no longer manufactured by Miele for the No. American market.

If I were to go for a new washer, I would keep my current dryer. But as you know, new 48XX's run close to 2K in the US, so still nearly double what is being asked for the used units. It's when you add on all the extra costs of delivery, hookup, diagnostics and possible repairs, that we are ever gradually approaching the cost of a new washer. Sigh ....

Guess it comes down to how motivated the sellers are and/or if there is some way I can figure out how to move them myself.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 1:39AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

does that new cost of 2K include delivery and set up of a new Miele? those are additional costs here as well which drive the cost of the unit up higher (unless they run a free installation promo).

Mihai, can I ask where abouts in Canada you are? Just wondering if I should get to know your sales guy? ;)

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 9:01AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi Livebetter. Delivery not included, but would come with a warranty. So if something went wrong (during delivery/install), I would be able to get a technician out at no cost. And the fees are less because units are not being picked up and relocated from private residence to private residence.

I am still hoping seller will contact me with a reduced price offer. Realistically I think they will have a hard time selling them for $1,100 because they are not hooked up for testing and have been sitting for a number of years. But ya never know .....

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 11:43AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi all -

Quick update on my Persil usage. I've been gradually increasing the amount of megapearls per load. Today I put in a set of white bed sheets that I had to do on sanitize. I decided to up the Persil to 4 Tsp. Well based upon the suds I am seeing, in my Danby (won't know about the Bosch yet), that's the max. If I went to 3 TBS I'd end up in a suds lock. I am going to have to monitor the rinse cycle to be sure they are rinsed. I may have to send it for some extra rinses. That is how much my whole house softener effects the use of detergent. I will back off to my usual 1 Tbsp (based upon previous detergents) for the next load.

    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 11:46AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter, actually from what I saw, for 1949 USD you get the appliance delivered to your door from US-appliance in Michigan to wherever in the US. You can buy an optional 'white glove' delivery where they install the appliance. I am sure through they are not Miele techs.

I'm in Montreal near the Olympic stadium, I just wish I was closer to the unboxed store, I would be there every week trying to find a good deal.

There is a guy locally selling a pair of 4800 & 9800 for 2700$ which I think is way too much, he is firm on price!

There is (or was) also an identical set in Kitchener with a brand new dryer for 2400$, I was seriously thinking on going on a road trip.

Livebetter, if you have a chance can you e-mail? I would have some questions about the unboxed outlet since it seems that you've been there.


    Bookmark   January 13, 2011 at 1:11PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I have not heard back from the seller since we traded emails on the 11th.

I emailed again today to set up a time to return the manuals for the W/D. I also made an offer of $700.

Keep your fingers crossed for me!

    Bookmark   January 15, 2011 at 10:53PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Good luck!

    Bookmark   January 15, 2011 at 11:24PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Update: Seller responded that since she hadn't heard back from me (?), she had agreed to a cash offer of $850 by someone who would not be able to get it until mid Feb (when they were paid). They have an understanding that it can be sold in the mean time in case things "don't work out." She said she is also investigating donating to a non-profit.

Big question: Are they worth $850?

I am to return her manuals today or tomorrow.

Basically, its sink or swim time, so time to decide.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 2:30PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

bigdogmom_pa - that is so weird! I have a whole house softener as well, but my Persil usage is closer to 4 TBS per full load. I see NO suds at all and a beautifully clear 2nd rinse. I know my water softener is working because we all enjoy that "slippery" feel when we wash our hands, shower, etc. The only difference is that you probably use sodium in your softener while I use potassium in mine. Could that account for the difference in suds?

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 6:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I'd go for it if they are willing to give you your money back (in writing) if they don't work properly once hooked up.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 6:31PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I just emailed the seller and asked if she would refund if they don't work upon hook up. Will let you know what she says. Thanks everyone for all your help and suggestions.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 7:54PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

S..Stava - I am using sodium in my softener, used to use potassium, but it has become very difficult to find around here. I really do prefer the potassium. The only thing you have to watch using it is the brine tank. Potassium can create a rock hard layer in the bottom and stop the unit from recycling correctly. I had that happen to me when using the pot. The company we use, suggest that every 6 months I drain the tank and take any sludge out of the bottom.

I will work w/the Persil amount once the Bosch gets here. For now I'm sticking to my 2 tsp - 1 Tbsp. So far everything is coming out soft and clean.

Covingtoncat - good luck with the machines. The price is a lot closer to what you were willing to pay.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2011 at 8:02PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

MIne, mine, mine! Deposit to sellers tomorrow. They agreed to refund if they don't work properly on hookup. I'm to schedule pick up and delivery asap. Thanks everyone for all your help, support and suggestions. Will let you know how things progress.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 12:27AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

covingtoncat - so you got them for 850? That sounds good to me. Congrats! I'm crossing my fingers there are no issues with the machines. Can't wait to hear how it all works out.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 8:22AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Congrats covingtoncat! Please follow up with how they are working for you.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 1:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Bigdogmom: Yes, that's the price for the units. Does not include moving or installing. Hope to hear your evaluation on the Bosch units soon.

Livebetter: Thanks. Are you going for the larger Mieles or the Bosch's? If you went with the Mieles and it didn't work out, you could probably return them for full refund. With the Bosch's you have larger capacity, at a lower price? Is that right? So is it the extended warranty on the Miele's that's got you wavering? Ten years is pretty compelling. What issues are you wrestling with?

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 1:48PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat, got an hour?? :)

Miele - I'm not convinced the W48XX are really worth what Miele charges for them. Just got my price today - for the W4842, T9822, 2 pedestals + install it's just under $6,000 (I'll get the 10 year warranty program free with the promotion - value $1,138). I believe these cost more here than in the US.

Bosch - while I like the features on the Bosch and many reviews seem positive, I really find the look and feel of the machine "cheaper" than others. I have looked at them 4 times now and always feel very underwhelmed with how the door feels, the controls feel and the detergent tray slides. I also emailed them once with questions and no one ever responded (alarm bells re: service). Both LG and Miele have been very responsive to my questions. The Bosch Vision 800 all in is around $4,000 ($2,000 less then Miele). The 500 is around $500 less.

Others - I recently helped my Mom pick out new FL machines (her first ever). She doesn't have a large budget and we went with the entry level LGs (which have some great features). The LGs consistently score high with CR (if you put any stock in that) and the on-line reviews for them were very good. I've had 3 different retailers tell me they are better than Bosch (in terms of features and service).

If I was an average customer (not someone who knows more than the sales people from all my reading) there is no way I would pick a Bosch machine over LG or Samsung just based on how they look and feel.

If I rule out Miele based on cost, what's left? LG? Really? I just don't know ... I think I'm more confused now then I was this morning :)

I look at my current 10 year old Frigidaire FL machines and think they are pretty basic and have served me well for 10 years - is it really this complicated now?

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 6:09PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

@ Livebetter if you're interested I did a spreadsheet comparing US vs. Canadian prices on the Mieles, I can forward it to you if you wish.


600$ more for the W4842
100$ more for the T9802
250$ more for the T9822

I tried comparing percentage wise with other manufacturers and it was difficult as other brands change their model numbers for the Canadian market.

When you consider taxes which Americans don't have to pay (if it's shipped out of the retailer's state), the difference is even more shocking.

When I asked the Miele Rep at the Gallery, I was told it was due to compliance fees to Canadian standards.

The down part is that you can't buy in the US a 10 year warranty, 5 years is the max.

I called Miele Canada and they told me that if I was an American resident who had purchased machines in the US and moved to Canada, they would honour the basic 1 year warranty only, and the 90 day return policy is voided. Finally it was not possible to buy an extended warranty in Canada for a US sold machine.

If you rule out Miele, you can always look at Maytag; Home Depot has a special on a red W/D combo. The washer is made in Germany and the Dryer Mexico or the US? Offer ends Wednesday. Maybe it's worth a look.

Sorry if I'm confusing you even more!

Honestly, I would say go for what you believe gives you the best value for YOUR money.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 6:54PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Congratulations, covingtoncat! I know you put a lot of time and energy into this.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 8:03PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Thanks Steve-O! I'm excited to finally have made a decision. Fingers crossed.

@Livebetter: Sorry to be MIA, Mom-stuff. It seems to me that you really want to want the Mieles. But the price! Man, its huge. Do you need the dryer now? Are the pedestals a must-have? That adds what $600, minimum? When I got my FL, I got the 10 inch pedestal, wish I'd had room for the taller one (w/a drawer), but the cabinetry over the area prohibited it. I'm tall and I thought it would be too much strain on my back. The Miele set I'm getting now is stacked, so no pedestal and it is LOW to the ground. I see an inexpensive stool in my future - LOL!

My neighbor has an LG fridge and has had numerous problems with it. Service and parts have been a nightmare. Are you in a major metro area? Would service calls be difficult? If so, reliability really comes in to play.

I think Mihai hits it: Its YOUR perception of value for the money. You could buy SEVERAL units over time for 6k. The Mieles come with a 10 guarantee, that's significant depending on how inclusive it is. Do you think you'll want these longer than 10 years? 20 years? Price it out.

I wish I had an easy answer for you or a magic wand (or winning lotto ticket). From what I have read here, the general belief is Miele owners are among the most satisfied. If there are problems, Miele stands behind their product and their service people are well trained.

If I had the bank for new, I'd buy it. But I don't, which is why I am willing to loose capacity just to get a chance at the product line. Here's an odd question for you: Must you have the dryer now? Does it have to be a Miele? Is there something special about this dryer? Is your laundry room in an open viewing part of your home? My current dyer does not match the washer except for the color. I just needed a large capacity dryer with a few features. Basic = WAY less expensive. I've NEVER regretted that decision. Is that possible for you?

Sorry to ramble, but HTH

    Bookmark   January 17, 2011 at 10:54PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter - I hope they call about my Bosch being here by the end of the week, but not sure since I opted for the Gray color. When I decided to go w/a color instead of white, the salesperson said "make sure you want to look at this color for 15 years". I'm hoping they do survive for 15 years, that would be awesome. They do the repairs on them as well so, I don't have to worry about service, should it be needed. I did not get the pedastals, as I have to stack mine. My total was 2400 w/stack that includes pull out tray on the 500's. Since I was going to a larger capacity, I had to get the dryer and for stacking reasons as well.

What convinced me to go w/Bosch, I looked at LG too, was several things. First, I have a 6 yo Bosch DW that I just absolutely love. No issues and it washes stuff that no other DW could touch (at least that I've owned or family has). Also the temps available on the Bosch - see above several posts - The heater will work on all settings, if needed and it will do a profile wash for stains. Then the dryer, if you look at where the air comes out, it is the entire back of the machine. Most machines you open just have one small pie slice for the air to come through. I think I also read somewhere that the dryer is reverse tumbling too, however, upon a quick skim of the manual I cannot confirm that. I will know once I get mine here. My Danby is a reverse tumble and it really does keep things from balling up.

And here is something else to consider. All three series match, so if you just need a more basic dryer, you could get the 800 washer and then pair it w/the 500 or 300 dryer and save a few bucks that way.

When I questioned my appliance person about the brands they carry and if they wished they had others or could dump any his response was, that they only carry what they find to be worthwhile. However, they will be dropping Samsung when their contract is up because, for them, they have been nothing but repair headaches and it included the fridges and other appliance (not TV's). They do not carry LG. That's not to say LG is bad, he just could not give me any personal experience w/them. My SIL just got a new set of LG's (don't know her model number) and so far she loves them.

I too went through the how much should I spend question and went and did the touch and feel. However, around here at least, there wasn't a significant price difference between the Bosch and the LG.

Also, I spent time downloading the owners manuals from the internet so I could compare wash temps and features. While both the Bosch and the LG had things I liked, having owned the DW that's what pushed me over the edge along with the above mentioned items.

GL making your decision - I feel it's personal for everyone based upon how they wash, what they wash, and what they can afford. I'm sure you'll love whatever you decide upon.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 8:35AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I recently went to Home Depot to buy some cleaning products and decided to check out the latest LG and Maytag batch of washers on display. All I can say is once you've gone Miele, you will never go back. I was completely horrified by how cheap and plasticky these machines felt. The Maytag w/ square doors felt especially cheap - did you guys know that these machines don't even have glass doors? It's all plastic!

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 10:13AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi Livebetter: I really like Bigdogmom's idea about checking out the owner's manuals. That's a great idea. That's what I did with the Miele's I'm getting.

I don't know if you have anything like this in your area, but we have a distributorship for the higher-end appliances that will let you come and run a test load (or use the ovens, stoves, etc). Is that a possibility for you? Maybe an independent appliance store can do that, too. IDK, just a thought.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 11:35AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat, when you get your machines, do you think you can post some pictures and do a small review. I know they are discontinued but still available at some places and some us (Ok maybe just me) are considering what you purchased.

Thank you and good luck with the new acquisition!

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 11:56AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I'll do that. But, I don't think I will even get them before sometime next week. The appliance place hasn't called me back with dates yet.

I found pictures on AJ madison and a couple other sites (google). You can also download the manuals and there are a few reviews. There are a couple of vids on youtube, but its for the current model. They look pretty much the same, though.

Keep scouting Craigslist and Kijiji. Good Luck.

@ Livebetter: Any news?

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 4:35PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

sshrivastava, not to be smart but does the glass in the door help it to clean clothes better? It's a little "elitist" to think everyone can afford or wants to shell out for a Miele. I'm sure thousands of people are getting clean clothes in lesser machines. Although I did just check my 10 year old Frigidaire and it has a glass door - I've always had very clean clothes and white whites so maybe the glass does help ;)

covingtoncat, well after further investigating today and comparing machines, I have definitely ruled out the Bosch (for myself personally). Gosh, I sure hope bigdogmom_pa thoroughly enjoys hers when they arrive. I will be waiting with baited breath to hear her review. I've just decided they don't "make me happy" - although, I'm beginning to think nothing does. Since I've ruled that out, I'm not under the gun right now (Bosch offer was until Thursday this week).

As far as Miele goes, I'm struggling with details like doors that will open to each other. I also found out today the T9822 may not be available for another 4 months in Canada (CSA approvals or something) and Miele will not give me the 10 year free upgrade because of that. Hmmm ... maybe I'll just get the washer for now and get the dryer later when the new one is available. Although, I measured my washer drum and the Miele and Miele is just a smidge bigger - I'm not really gaining any capacity.

I noticed a photo today on the Miele offer that shows a pair with a left hand washer (check out link). I called Miele and asked about it. They said the image was downloaded from Germany but no "plans" that they know of to bring that unit here. Hmmmm again ... It would be just like them to bring it here 2 months after I buy this one and have to live with doors opening to each other.

So ... where am I at ? Today's informed sales personnel said if I wasn't going with Miele the only one they would suggest is the Whirlpool Duet (new 5.0 cf). As I looked at that one today I noticed the detergent tray wouldn't even close properly ... nice ...

As I watched the full police funeral today (some 14,000 officers and civilians) for fallen Toronto officer Sgt. Ryan Russell killed in the line of duty last week - I questioned my craziness over this. It all seems so silly and insignificant in the big picture.

I'll keep you posted :)

Here is a link that might be useful: miele washer - left hand??

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 10:05PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi Livebetter. An untimely death does put obsessiveness in perspective, doesn't it? It seems so silly to fixate on such insignificance when there are tragedies all around us. We had a horrific shooting in Arizona recently, where a US Congresswoman was nearly killed and a retired Judge and 9 year old child lost their lives in a deliberate, apparently random act of violence. And here we are blabbering about washers and dryers.

It makes me feel a sorry member of the planet.

By all means, get the washer for the 10 year now and wait on the dryer if that would work. I checked your link and it looks like the promotion is thru mid-Feb, so you've got some time, still.

Keep checking and Kijiji and the unboxed store.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2011 at 11:45PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter - I will give a review when my Bosch's arrive. Buying a W/D is a very personal thing. You have to buy something that fits your needs. If a close to boil wash isn't a priority for you, then that opens up other machines. If you have to have a Miele, then that limits what you purchase. Believe me, my decision wasn't an easy one. I've been trying to decide this for a year now. Financially the Miele's were a stretch for me. Then the fact that you cannot stack the ones we can buy here added additional finances to make my laundry room work.

I will suggest to you, that you try and swap where your washer and dryer sit. The hoses on the washer should be long enough and slight additional run for the dryer vent should not be an issue either. I lived w/doors opening into one another and I will NEVER do that again. Dropped laundry on the floor, banging my hands. It was a real pain.

I debated long and hard about what was important to me in re to a machine. I knew I wanted true "hot" water. I didn't have to boil my clothes, but I wanted more than 120. 120 to me is warm. I also wanted a heater to work in all cycles. Once you decide on those two things it really starts to limit your choices.

Trust me, I wonder everyday if I made the right choice. I'm praying I did. I will know soon enough and if the salesman is correct I will be living with that choice for a very long time, so I do hope I am right.

I'll keep you posted.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 8:47AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat, only if you have a chance to take some snapshots, it would be appreciated. I did go through the manual and online reviews but I still have some questions that maybe you can help me with. If you wish of course...

1. If possible a picture of the stacking kit/drawer, does the dryer slide in some rails or does it fall on fixed holes.

2. Pictures of the electrical box/splitter would also be appreciated.

3. How do you consider the dryer capacity, is it borderline or goes well with the washer.

4. In your opinion, is the almost boiling wash temperature really worth it, or not really useful.

There is no rush in answering back or obligation, I still have time to decide with what type of machines to go with.

Livebetter, if you ever noticed on older cars, when they switched from glass to plastic headlights, some started having those foggy/yellowing headlights. Even Mercedes has the problem, pretty deceiving on a high end product. I would say that the same thing applies to appliances in some way.

Is the Miele worth all that extra cash in materials or labour, most likely not, it's a premium brand and marketing says they have to charge a premium price. If you saw a better-built machine than the Miele @ half the price, wouldn't you be suspicious?

If you go with Miele maybe you can do as Convingtoncat says postpone the dryer purchase, Miele will most likely do another 10-year promo within a year?

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 2:16PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi All,

Delivery is tentatively scheduled for next Wednesday, the 26th.

Mihai, I will try and get photos posted and questions answered for you once machine is installed and I've got some usage under my belt. When I went to see the unit, it was stacked and I couldn't really tell what the frame looked like, but it does have a small pull out shelf for folding clothes. The dryer looked and seemed roomier (slightly) than the washer when I put my test load of KS flannel sheets and also the coverlet (separately).It could be an optical illusion (no porthole), but I think it is actually a wee bit larger to facilitate tumbling. I'm really jazzed about the uber temps, but others have posted that current temps are plenty hot enough to get what ever needs done, well, done. My current washer doesn't have even an internal heater.

I've seen photos of the box/splitter somewhere on the net, maybe here?

Stay tuned.

BDM-PA: Any updates on your W/D/

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 8:01PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat - nope, no word yet on my machine. I hoping they call tomorrow or Friday. At his point, I'm figuring and hoping on delivery next week. I'll let you know as soon as I hear.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2011 at 10:47PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo


I just received an email from Miele Canada customer care and they said both the T9822 and T9802 are currently available. Was it customer care that just told you they weren't?

The fact they were not available killed the deal for me last April.


    Bookmark   January 20, 2011 at 4:18PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Yay Waterloo-red! That is great news. Livebetter, are you on this? Does this help you with your decision??

    Bookmark   January 20, 2011 at 5:02PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hello Covingtoncat, I've made my mind up and am going this week-end to the Miele outlet near Toronto, so no more hassle for you to snap pictures... They told me that 220V washers have the splitter box included! I can't wait to be there and I hope I won't be disappointed!

Now for others who are considering the W48XX/T98XX series, I just heard a rumour that may affect your buying decision.

Disclaimer: It's a rumour so if you really need a W/D and are going for the 10 year warranty promo (Canada only) by all means don't hold back.

So I heard that Miele is going to revamp the Super Size washers and dryers in March. Livebetter was mentioning earlier in this post about the picture that came from Germany with the doors the other way around. Now that I look closer, the machines also seem to be more silver than bone white...Something stinks...

Some issues to be addressed are apparently the doors opening the wrong side and the dryer which is noisy.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2011 at 9:07PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Who-Hoo Mihai! We'll be new parents together ;)

For the price, I'm willing to give on capacity. I really hope it will work for you.

Please post pics of the Miele outlet. I'm really curious.

Did you ever get an answer about the size of the dyer v. washer for stacking? Are you still thinking of stacking?

    Bookmark   January 20, 2011 at 9:25PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

mihai914, can I ask how you know that?? It was my fear I would buy the W4842 and soon after new machines would appear that would fit my space better. If I knew for sure, I'd hold off. Hmmm ....

I can't believe you're going to drive all this way! I sure hope you go home happy. You know the machines are quite heavy right?

W-R, well ... one Tasco sales guy told me yes and another called Miele while I was there and Miele told him no. I hope customer care knows what they're talking about. So confusing.

    Bookmark   January 20, 2011 at 9:59PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat, sure I'll try and take some snap shots if they allow me.

After really looking at how I do my laundry I will almost never benefit from the super capacity machines whatever brand they are.

The only bad part of buying from the outlet is that the washer is a 6K and the available dryers are 5K, but I'm saving over 1600$ which is important to me.

I was told that the machines would not stack; I will still try it though since yesterday I passed at a store that displayed the W3035 & T8005 stacked. The system is a rail type which makes me think it would be possible to stack. I shall see, but it's not a biggie since I have room for full size machines in the laundry cabinet.

Livebetter, the rumour came out through a discussion with a sales person. He saw that I had much more interest in the small machines so he let go some info. He really said there was no guarantee that is was true.

This info with the picture you pointed out makes me suspicious. I was considering the full size also (mainly for aesthetics realistically), if I would of bought them and something better came out shortly I would not have been very happy.

Other manufacturers clearly discount appliances because they are end of line, if Miele is just giving a warranty incentive because they will phase out a product I don't feel the consumer receives the same value. After all the 10 year warranty promo is a calculated move by Miele where they are advantaged financially.

As I said if you need machines now and the 10 year peace of mind is in your top three reasons of buying the product don't hold back.

Dimension wize, I don't think they will change much if that's a key aspect, every manufacturer tries to have as much standard stuff as possible to reduce costs.

I can't prove what I've said with facts unfortunately.
A new design is not always better than the previous one.
Maybe I should just have kept my mouth shut.

PS: the drive is long but worth it for me, good thing I have brothers with extra time :)
BTW I compared MTC vs Miele unboxed and the MTC pricing is quite higher if anyone needs to know.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 8:07AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Mihai: Some smaller on-line retailers and also brick and mortar stores may still have the 6K dryers. I found one (Gourmet Appliance Outlet) here that had a couple and I believe a couple of others thru google. Some smaller but higher-end places might be able to help with older stock or referrals? IDK, just a thought.

My observation was that the dryer interior for the 6K set looked slightly larger than the washer, but that could have been because there is no porthole on the dryer. I brought a basket with a set of flannel sheets and a coverlet to try on for size.

Normally I can fit the contents of an entire basket in my washer. WIth the Miele's it was slightly more than half, full but not stuffed to the brim. I don't do that with my washer now, but I've read conflicting reports that you can do that with the Miele's. Any Miele Guru's out there who can confirm or myth bust that for me?

I'm excited for your adventure.

@ Livebetter: Regarding the redesign rumor: the first edition of a new model often has many kinks. I'm sure you've read here on this forum the trials and tribulations of the new release 4XXX's. Units available in the European Marketplace often never make it to ours or are sometimes years in getting here. Is there anyone else whom you've been working with that can do some additional investigating for you w/ Miele's home office?

Best of luck.

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 11:41AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

mihai914, since you're coming to town anyway ... did you see this set on Kijiji in Barrie?

Here's more info:

I'm leaning to biting the bullet on the W4842 + T9822 with the 10 year. My machine is not long for this world and I don't want to wait for it to give out for good.

I'm not too concerned about the doors opening to eachother as I'm going to get pedestals. I always shake every item out before I put it in the dryer anyway so I'll just unload into the laundry basket (sittin on a pedestal) and open dryer pedestal and push over. I can shake each item out and put into dryer. Should work fine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele T1576 dryer + washer?

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 8:26PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter, yes I saw pretty much all Miele washers & dryers available in Ontario! If I'm going through all this trouble I might as well go for new.

You still have until Feb 13th to bite the bullet and then no troubles for 10 years guaranteed!

Covingtoncat, I saw those 6K dryers, with shipping it comes out to $1200 while the 5K T1313 goes for $1000 including taxes in Canada.

I wish I was in the states in situations like this, free shipping to your door and no tax most of the time, you guys enjoy it while it lasts!

    Bookmark   January 21, 2011 at 9:58PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

A lot of states (WA included, I believe) are now trying to collect taxes on big internet appliance purchases. I'm not sure where I read it, or how they would do it, but ..... I think it was here on the kitchen's or appliances forums.

That set looks on Kijiji looks nice, but I can't tell how old it is. It has the dial feature that I've read many people prefer for maximum flexibility. May be worth a look?

BigDogMom_PA: any ETA on your new set? Keep us posted.

Livebetter: Let us know when/if you pull the trigger. I wonder if one of the Laundry Forum regulars with family in Germany might be able to find out anything (hey Larsi, are you there?) about the reverse door model?

Happy Weekend Everyone!

    Bookmark   January 22, 2011 at 12:07AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Covingtoncat - nope no word yet. Today is 2 weeks exactly so I hope to hear something soon. Weather has been bad here, so maybe that held things up a bit. I hope to prep my laundry room today, so when they come, it will be an easy install. Want to move out a freestanding cupboard to give them room to work.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2011 at 8:24AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

So I did 3 loads of my kids' clothes last night and my machine is no longer spinning like it used to ... tick tock ... I need to decide this week and just go for it before I'm left with no machine. Yikes ...

My new "train of thought" was if Miele really is going to update these machines (and I really think they will) maybe I should buy some mid level LGs to last me 6 years and get the newer Miele's then (I wouldn't count on the LGs lasting too long). Crazy?

It's not about spending the money on them - it's about spending the money on them not perfect for my situation and then perfect coming along ... that would bug me.

According to Consumer Reports (for what it's worth) ... there are other machines (like LG) that clean well and are fairly dependable (less repairs than other brands). Maybe it's a good bridge until perfect comes along.

Or I just suck it up not perfect and don't get upset when the new ones come along. That's probably what most "sane" people do ;)

I noticed that Miele is going to be at the Toronto Interior Design Show and they said featuring new products. I may check it out just to see what they are showing.

    Bookmark   January 22, 2011 at 10:22PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Mihai: Did you go yesterday? What did you decide? Any news?

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 2:51PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

WR, bad news ... I spoke with an inside guy at Miele today and he said "no way" on the T9822. He said they have so much stock in the others that that one will be months before available. This is really getting annoying. I'm firing off an email to Miele Customer Service. Come on ... how they do not know if available or not. This is supposed to be the most service oriented company??

I decided today that it's a deal breaker for me. He told me how they would vent the current dryer and it sounds to me like trying to make a square peg fit in a round hole. It shouldn't be so difficult.

I'm either going to get the w4842 and wait on the proper venting dryer or I'm going with the LGs. I'm going to decide tomorrow but I'm not impressed with this poor communication. The LGs will fit the space properly, I won't have to wait (heaven knows how long) for a dryer that will vent without "special" attachments and I'm sure from the reviews I've read it will clean clothes just fine.

I'm really starting to "get over" this whole mess.

Let me know if you heard different.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 6:17PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter, don't you have until mid Feb to decide? Its horrible to be rushed into a decision. I really sense your frustration w/Miele and I hope you get a straight answer soon. Do they have a 30 day or whatever trail period where you can return (for full refund) if you're not satisfied? That 10 year sure is a hard one to pass up.

If you can make the washer only work for you for now, its a viable alternative, BUT at this price point I don't feel you should have to compromise or settle for anything. Truly.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 7:57PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi covingtoncat, the deal is until Feb 13 (I believe) but my machine's days are numbered. I fully expect it to conk out for good any day. I don't want to be left stranded with no washer.

It sounds like the dryer I need won't be available for quite a while - months!

My husband and I were at the store again today and I started to feel like I was trying to put a square peg in a round hole. I was trying to make things work for these machines and it just feels to "hard" - does that make sense?

The salesman put me on the phone with his inside sales rep at Miele and he kept assuring me they would install it no matter what my set up but ... it really felt like bandaid solutions you know?

You are absolutely right ... at this price I expect perfection so why are we using strange adapters so the dryer can be vented and living with a backward set up.

I could get the LGs tomorrow and none of these issues would be there. I actually like them too. I in no way think they are even close to Miele in build quality but they are very nice and I happen to like the lights and sounds (they make me happy :).

I want to place an order tomorrow so I have plenty to stew on tonight. My current dryer is working fine so I could just get the Miele washer and wait for the dryer (it will come at some point). Then my only issue is the backward doors which I can live with. Or get the cute LGs and be done with it. At their price, if I get 6 - 8 years I'd be happy and I could get Miele's then (by then I'm sure there will be a Miele to suit me fine).

Alas ... I wish someone could just decide for me ... sigh ... you all have been so thoughtful listening to this for days :)

When are you getting yours? So excited for everyone getting new machines!

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 9:10PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi Convingtoncat, sorry for not updating the status (tired and excited). I did go to the outlet center and came back with two brand new machines fully boxed! And I also picked-up a dishwasher for a friend.

Deciding was still hard but it's over and I'm very happy and think I made a good deal! So in the end I have the W1213 with the T1313.

The washer is installed and functional, I'll have to buy a flexible vent duct to get the dryer working.

The washer is very heavy and made it tough to move, not necessarily to install.

I have some pictures for you but nothing spectacular.

Can't wait until you get your set so we can compare notes :)

If you can still snap a picture of the stacking kit and measure center to center for the rails it would be greatly appreciated.

I can suggest one thing now and it is to read the owner's manual really well. There are plenty of options and the machine keeps in memory the last selected settings for every program. So you always have to keep an eye on settings as they do not go back to default.

I'm sure you'll be very pleased with your purchase.

Livebetter, I have some update for you but would prefer sharing off forum, to sum it up, changes will most likely be much more minor than what I heard and in my opinion not worth losing the promo.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 10:43PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Hi mihai914,

So excited for you! Glad it all worked out after your long drive to TO. Let me know how you like them.

I shopped today (as you can read above) and decided I'm either going to get the W4842 and wait on the dryer or go for the LGs. Ahhhh! I spent WAY less time researching our newest vehicle.

Feel free to email me here to discuss your findings re: the updates I spoke to Miele directly today and he said no way for any major updates in the near future. He also said they have SO much stock of the older dryer they won't release the new T9822 that I need for (perhaps) months. Stinks ...

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 11:38PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Yay Mihai! So happy for you and glad to hear your trip went well. I will be excited to see your photos, and to hear your reports on your purchase and your adventure. I have the manuals and have spent many hours in perusal. My hubs thinks I am nuts! I would love to know your recommendations for various cycles and types of laundry.

Livebetter, depending on the info you get from Mihai, maybe you will get the info you need to make an informed decision. If Miele does the install modifications, any issues would be still under their warranty, correct?

Whichever you decide, I hope you will love your new machines.

    Bookmark   January 23, 2011 at 11:49PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Well, how about some more (mis)information.

I just called Customer Care and they said the T9822 is available but it is showing as backordered. They will and are shipping that model number out. She told me that many of the units sold are for delayed shipment and that they can ship new orders immediately.

Next, I spoke to a salesman yesterday and was told (keeping in mind these people seem to come up with the craziest things) that Miele will introduce an updated model this year (most likely 2nd quarter). And the use of steam is the big upgrade.

And lastly, the rumor going around this large local appliance dealer is that Bosch is getting out of laundry machines this year. He said they are investing 5-6 million in their dishwashers but cancelling the laundry program.

Fun isn't it?


    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 11:18AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I think I might cry :( ...

Thanks for the update. I shot off an irritated message to Miele Customer Service last night voicing my irritation over what seems to be terrible communication revolving around these new dryer units.

I'll post back when I hear from them.

It was my fear that new units were coming. Problem is my machine won't last that long ... what to do ... ugh ...

    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 11:44AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo


There might be some validity to the sales talk you are hearing as Miele's German website is now showing their Supertronic series with SteamCare, automatic dispensing (powder and liquid detergents), spot car selection, etc.; plus a new dryer:

Miele Supertronic

Here is the direct link to brochure in PDF form (copy and paste into Google's translation): Supertronic PDF Brochure

    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 12:10PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

waterloo-red - I sure hope the rumor about Bosch isn't true. My dealer didn't mention anything and loves the Bosch. I'm still waiting to hear when mine will arrive. What would bother me is lack of parts should I need them.

The only thing that would give me comfort is I went w/the Danby which I love and excellent machine, but repairs now are impossible since they quick making them not long after I bought mine. If the actually do discontinue the Bosch, maybe that's telling me I made another good decision.

Either that or I don't have a very good track record. LOL

Congrats Mahai on your new babies. Enjoy. Wish we had a place like that here.

Livebetter - GL making your decision.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 12:40PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Farenheit 451: Wow, that's very interesting. Wonder how long it will take to hit the NA market?

Livebetter: I notice that the washer is still being shown on the right, hmmmm. Are you any closer to making a decision?

W-R: I wonder why Bosch would be dropping their laundry division? That seems really strange. By all accounts its a good product.

My units are supposed to be here Wednesday.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 6:24PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

the rumor going around this large local appliance dealer is that Bosch is getting out of laundry machines this year.

According to Appliance Advisor, the rumor is half-true -- the 27" lines will be terminated. 24" models will continue. Details at the link.

    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 6:35PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

W-R, Miele Customer Care told me the exact same thing by email today. It is in total contrast to my phone conversation yesterday with an inside sales person AT Miele. He said, "no way - not for several months".

If I decide to order the Miele units, I sure hope they have that dryer ... I will seriously "blow my stack" if they say no again.

I think it's funny rumours are swirling about Miele and steam. I'm pretty sure I read a Miele person post here that steam is a marketing "gimmick" and you only need a good solid Miele (not steam) to get things clean. Clearly those Germans are getting into the steam.

This is part of my big debate ... if I get the Miele there are no bells/whistles (like steam). Just solid construction and probably long service.

If I get the LGs (WM3885) I get much larger capacity, steam and a host of other features. I may not get as long but what I lack in longevity I'll gain in features. I think I would really enjoy some of those features.

If I could only have both :)

Bigdogma_pa, does this news change your mind re: the Bosch pair? Could you still cancel your order if you wanted?

    Bookmark   January 24, 2011 at 9:03PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter - I called yesterday about my Bosch pair to get an update. The dryer is in, but not the washer. However the washer is due in very soon. It does bum me out that they are discontinuing the line, however, I still think I made a good decision other than the long wait for the "color" I chose. From various dealers I'm getting really good reports on the machine itself. Since my Danby worked out, I'm hoping this will be the same.

I'm also going to start saving for a Miele set for when these go. However, if the reports are true and I get a good 10-15 years out of them, I'll be able to downsize again.

So since every machine I purchase gets discontinued w/in a year or so, everyone who wants a Miele better buy it in the next 10 years, given my track record, if I buy one they will quit making them or at least selling them here. LOL

The funny thing is LG was in the running for me too, it was the water temps and the internal heater use on every load that swayed me. The water temp was more important to me than some of the features on the LG. Mostly I guess because I do have to deal with some sanitation issues on a regular basis and at least for my water, I don't feel cold does a very good job. So that's why temps were important. A warm wash of 85 just isn't warm, it's cold in my book and a hot wash of 105 didn't cut it either. Just my opinion.

    Bookmark   January 25, 2011 at 8:31AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

bigdogmom, well I'm still looking forward to your review when they are in.

Had your dealer heard the news about Bosch? What did he think?

I currently have no heater so I'm pretty sure any heater will be a step up from here :)

I'm intrigued by the steam functions on the top of the line LGs. Even though some here say it's a gimmick, Miele now has steam in Germany.

My mom just had her new LGs installed yesterday and the installers were telling her about another customer that day with a 4 year old LG that had bit the dust. She didn't get an extended warranty and had to buy a new one. That has me favouring the free 10 year Miele deal again :)

    Bookmark   January 25, 2011 at 5:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Livebetter - haven't had the chance to ask my dealer about the Bosch announcement. I had called before I read that, so when I talk to them next, I will ask.

Not sure if I mentioned my SIL got a set of LG's for Christmas and so far loves them. This is her first set of FL going from a traditional TL. I gave her all the important instructions so we will see in 6 mo what she thinks by then. However, her DH bought them for her because his DS got a set last year and loves them.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 8:41AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Bigdogma, this is what I have for wash temps for two machines I'm considering. Practically identical.

LG (WM3885)
Extra hot 70 C (158)
Hot 50 C (122)
Warm 40 C (104)
Cold 25 C (77 F)

Miele W4842
Sanitize 70 C (158)
Hot 60 C (140)
Very warm 50 C (122)
Warm 40 C (104)
Cold 30 C (86)

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 12:17PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I'd like as much as anyone to see an alternative to Miele, for doing true hot washes. But this paragraph in the WM3885 manual gives me pause:

� Your washer features a heating element to boost the
hot water temperature for Extra Hot settings. This
provides improved wash performance at normal water
heater settings.

I read it to mean that the heater is used only on the Extra Hot setting. If that's so, then with my plumbing (washer far from the domestic water heater) I'd never get a true hot wash, and a warm wash would be doubtful. Even if the washer is next to the water heater, the incoming hot water is going to drop in temperature, because of losing heat to the load and the washer hardware. And the temperature will continue to drop during the wash cycle.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 3:25PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I'd have to push them further but this was the response I got when I enquired about the heater:

"The unit does have an internal heater to ensure water temperatures are correct. The temperature options are as follows:
Cold 25 C
Warm 40 C
Hot 50 C
Extra hot 70 C"

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 4:08PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Sorry, I should have pointed out this was my actual question:

"Will it engage the heater to achieve or maintain a certain wash temp (warm or hot)? Also, your manual did not specify what temperature each one is - could you tell me what temperature each setting is (extra hot, hot, warm, cold)?

Their answer would imply it does monitor and maintain but it's a little vague. I'd have to press them for more details.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 4:14PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

When I was considering an LG a couple of years ago, LG customer service assured me that it would use the heater to assure the water temperature. A few days' experience with it told me it wasn't doing that...I paused the machine near the end of the wash cycle on a hot wash, and found the clothes barely warm. Also, it would fill with a mixture of cold and hot water on a hot wash, even though it takes a while for my hot faucet to start running hot. I ended up returning it and getting the Miele. Of course this was a different model from the one you're considering.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 7:19PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

suburbanmd, so how does the miele heater work exactly? Does the machine fill with hot/cold mixture and then heater ups water to target temp? I know it does not use the heater in Normal mode but I'm talking about other settings (custom/master care)?

So if I select a warm wash in a custom setting does it ensure 104 F for the whole wash?

I'm meeting with my "trusted" sales buy tomorrow morning and I'm hoping to be coming home a new machine owner.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 7:30PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo


It's pathetic to say this but I am excited to hear what you end up getting tomorrow!

I have presented two options to my better half. Spend $2700 on the LG 2901 with stands and hope it lasts or drop $4600 on the Miele and have piece of mind for 10 years and, with luck, beyond (oh, and a reverse tumble dryer).

I think I know which way I am leaning.


    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 8:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

W-R, I think everyone on this forum will be glad when I finally commit. They won't have to hear it anymore :) I feel pressure now (LOL) ..

I assume at $4600 you are considering the W4842 + T9822 but no pedestals. Even Miele's pedestals are so much more expensive. Sheesh ...

I'm not sure where you live but Tasco has the LG 2901 (I believe - I know it's 4.5 cu ft) on for a really good price. I believe in the Graphite Steel colour for ... I want to say $1700 (electric dryer as this model doesn't have a gas dryer and pedestals are $189 each).

That messed me up. I would probably have gone for the 2901 but I can't get a gas dryer. I thought about going to an electric dryer as I did have a receptacle installed in case I ever changed my mind about gas ... hmmm ... if I want gas I have to step up to the W3885 or step down to the W2501. Stepping up to the W3885 gets a little pricey for LG (IMO).

I'm hoping my guy tomorrow will help me out. He'll probably tell me to get the Miele (they all do).

My 8 year old was watching LG/Miele videos with me tonight and he said we should get the LG. He said Miele's video didn't tell him much but LG looks like it does so much. "Out of the mouth of babes ..."

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 8:42PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

suburbanmd, while reading the manual for LG W3885 I noticed it has what appears to be a profile wash. They call it Stain Care. It appears the heater must be used to bring wash temps up:

Use this option for heavily soiled loads that need improved stain treatment. When STAIN CARE is selected, the water temperature for the selected cycle will begin as warm water to help prevent the setting of certain types of stains. Then as the cycle progresses, the water will be heated to higher temperatures to help remove stains that require treatment at higher temperatures. This option is designed for optimum stain removal.

NOTE: If STAIN CARE is selected with the SANITARY cycle, the cycle will begin with very hot water since that is default for that cycle and cannot be changed.

I also find this information intriguing ... if it works as they say, this could be a good feature. I worry about washing in really HOT water ... that can't be good for all things.

STEAM cycles include the STEAM FRESH, ALLERGIENE, SANITARY, BRIGHT WHITES, BULKY/ LARGE, PERM.PRESS, COTTON/ NORMAL, HEAVY DUTY and TOWELS cycles. Adding the Steam option to these cycles provides superior cleaning performance while reducing energy and water consumption.

By using a hot steam spray from above and cooler water below, fabrics get the cleaning benefits of a super hot wash, without the energy usage or potential damage to fabrics.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 10:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

OK Livebetter, I can't wait to hear what you've decided. Hope your meeting goes well. ;)

My news for today: Units are here and INSTALLED! (happy dance) . I ran a quick test cycle with some of the "escapees" found when they removed my previous W/D, and then a sanitary cycle without detergent while the machine was empty.

As the machine has been sitting for a couple of years, I thought that would be a good idea, it smelled a little funky once we ran the test load. Man, did the glass porthole get HOT!

So far, so good, but keep your fingers crossed.

I'm looking forward to some quality laundry exploration soon.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 10:20PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

covingtoncat - yeah!!! So happy one of us is doing laundry :)

Really, very happy for you. I hope these machines live up to your expectations for them and you get many years good service from them.

Post an update once you've had a chance to really use 'em.

W-R, not to confuse you but I saw these the other day. Again, have no idea what part of Canada you live in. These are on Kijiji in the Toronto area. I spoke to her via email. Future Shop doesn't have the gas dryer so no good for me but if you want electric this could be a nice deal on TOTL LGs. Based on an on-line price I saw for them, I think you could possible try to offer a little less as well.

Here is a link that might be useful: LG WM3885/DLEX3885 - BNIB - Kijiji

    Bookmark   January 26, 2011 at 10:53PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

@ Livebetter: Keeping my fingers for you today and looking forward to hearing your decision.

You too, W-R.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2011 at 11:15AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo


Come on! You're killing us! What happened today?


    Bookmark   January 27, 2011 at 7:05PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

What W-R said. Inquiring minds want to know.

W-R: are you any closer to deciding?

BigDogMom_PA: Any dates yet?

I am washing my first official load on my Miele's as I type.

I ran a test load when installers were here (just to confirm units powered, filled, spun, etc), then a sanitary load last night to check heater (worked), then one with just persil to try and clean out any residual "funk," and now my first mixed load of darks. I filled it pretty full, but hopefully not overly so. Using woolite for darks and ecover FS. Fingers crossed.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2011 at 8:18PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

Sorry all! 'Been running all day ...

No decision yet but I had a great conversation with my sales "guy" this am. He's a good guy - no pressure to buy anything particular. He gave me good info on both the Miele and LG. If any one is interested, he said his first choice after Miele is Samsung (but no gas dryer so onto LG for me). He's not a fan of Whirlpool/Maytag and he showed me some reasons.

He works at the store where they sell the most Miele in all of Canada so he knows Miele. Miele has also paid for him to go to Germany and see manufacturing first hand.

He, of course, is sold on Miele's commitment to quality build/materials. He said they ask Miele about steam all the time as every brand offers it now. Miele said they won't do it until they can do it perfect.

He had nothing bad to say about the LG. He said if you get a good one they are great. He said if you get a bad one ... it used to be worse but they have changed their policy and after 3 service calls they give you a new machine. They figured out (under warranty) any more calls was costing them more than just giving a new machine to replace an obvious lemon. That's reassuring.

With his cost, the LG would run me about $1,200 less and he says there is no reason I shouldn't get at least 10 years ... maybe 15. Of course, Miele will take me 20 or more ... "they" say.

The reason for the delay is I quizzed him about the supposed changes to the W4XXX so he called his people at Miele. Sounds like just some minor aesthetic stuff but I showed him the left hand washer and he wanted to know more. He pushed them about the left hand washer and no one was saying too much.

The IDS (Interior Design Show) starts today and my "guy" is going to the Miele invitation only party. He says they usually show/talk about what's coming so he wants me to wait until tomorrow when he can tell me more.

Have I decided?? Still not 100% ... I'll wait to hear more tomorrow. If it is truly just aesthetics than no biggie but if they are going to come out with a left hand door than I want to know.

He also confirmed with two different Miele people that yes indeed the T9822 is available to ship.

Bottom line, I can have either set installed early next week and be doing laundry without stressing my machine will implode (which is what is happening as I type).

I really do like both - in a perfect world I'd have both ... LOL ... but alas ... I'll have to choose one.

I may be leaving town for the weekend so if you don't hear from me tomorrow it may not be until Tuesday that I get back on here. Sorry you have to wait a little longer ... :)

Here's something I thought of today, my "guy" was giving me some performance points about Miele today that I hadn't read anywhere. Things Miele tells them about the machines. For one example, the 4.0 cu. ft. drum is the "perfect" size for properly tumbling the clothes for the best clean and their tumble action is different than others. I realized today that Miele does a lousy marketing job. In everything I've read and seen, hardly any real "meat" about what sets them apart (besides their quality and their honeycomb drum). A little "ah ha" moment today ... I mean what is with their website?? They need serious marketing help ... they haven't even updated their site with the W4842.

He told me if Miele would put a machine that's opened up on the sales floor so they can show customers what's inside people would buy them no hesitation. It's just all that stuff in "intangible" because you can't see it. Makes sense.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2011 at 8:56PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I mean what is with their website?? They need serious marketing help [...] He told me if Miele would put a machine that's opened up on the sales floor so they can show customers what's inside people would buy them no hesitation. It's just all that stuff in "intangible" because you can't see it. Makes sense.

Miele marketing reminds me very much of German car marketing back in the 70s -- very understated and, seemingly, very much based on the belief that they didn't need to sell the sizzle when they had the steak. BMW did a lot of work on ergonomic factors that carries through every car these days. VW mentioned deep in their literature that the surround on their ignition key was as big as it was because that way it would not penetrate an eye socket in a crash. Mercedes-Benz created self-cleaning taillamps. All good stuff, lost in a sea of leather and feel-good marketing offered by other manufacturers. Of course, anyone with the good sense to buy a proper car (appliance) would recognize a superior product. Wouldn't they? :-o

    Bookmark   January 27, 2011 at 10:00PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

steve_o, you're giving consumers a lot of credit ...

I worked in advertising/marketing for 18 years on national and international brands (I decided to stay home with my kids 2 years ago). My husband still works in "the business".

Most of today's consumers want information. With the Internet, people are able to find just about anything (why your website should be easy to navigate and helpful). The brands that are top selling are the brands that do the most advertising. I've had two separate retailers tell me LG sells more than Samsung because of their ads. At least here in Canada ... they do a lot of advertising.

I think Miele is missing out there. I think if they did a better job telling people what "exactly" makes their machines worth twice as much it would be better for them. I, for one, want to know all the nuances that make the Novotronic system better than any one elses.

I'm not sure they have the LG budgets for advertising but they sure could do much better with their website and in-store material. Nothing in-store that told me much of anything. As opposed to LG which had a video monitor playing detailed information and take away materials - crazy.

I mean, Miele's site isn't even up to date with their latest models. If I was researching I would only see info on the W4840. They haven't even put the W4842 on there yet. They certainly haven't updated the site with the new multi-venting dryers - how would I know that was even an option?? My "guy" today asked them if they planned to update their site sometime this decade - what does that say.

    Bookmark   January 27, 2011 at 11:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

@livebetter... North America is an afterthought for Miele. Check out the German or British Miele web sites. They are far more robust and professionally done. Those countries also get the latest Miele models while we are a year or two behind. The W48XX would be the only exception, since that series was developed specifically for the North American market. It's funny that they develop a product specifically for North America but then do virtually nothing to market or promote it against other brands.

As far as temps are concerned, the MIele W4842 will engage the heater in all modes except Normal and possibly Delicates. I have confirmed that the heater works in Wrinkle-Free, Custom and the MasterCare cycles. The unit will use ATC to fill the machine with water as close to the target temperature as possible, then use the heater to get it up to temp and maintain it for the duration of the wash. There is also a service menu setting where you can change the machine to cold fill only, and the heater will engage and slowly raise the temperature from cold, just like a profile wash. However, doing this will take longer to hit the target temperature - possibly the entire length of the wash portion.

The Miele is certainly not perfect. The suspension/balance system is nothing to write home about - my 8 year-old Asko has a better suspension, and I would think LG, Samsung, and Electrolux all have better designed suspension systems for less vibration and noise. The Miele WILL vibrate, it's just an unavoidable fact of the design. Even when perfectly leveled. However, the other aspects of the machine make up for this. It's very simple and straightforward to operate, and very much a "set it and go" type of machine. Regarding tumble pattern and whatnot, anything you hear is 2nd hand unless confirmed by Miele. I can confirm that Extra White has a more aggressive and faster tumble than Wrinkle-free. Extra White is also more aggressive with the intermediate spins between rinses.

I bought Miele because I felt it was the best engineered machine and had the most research behind it in terms of clothing care.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2011 at 1:38PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

sshrivastava, my "guy" says it's more like 4 years behind.

I checked out the US site (not sure why I didn't do that sooner). It does a slightly better job of explaining the features and what that means to me. Canada is downright sad which because they are a "premium" brand is even sadder to me.

I think when you've worked in my field you become a cynical consumer. I've been in the marketing meetings/the advertising agency briefs/behind the glass of focus group testing ... when you realize the "marketing machine" that is behind everything you really question what is "real". Does that make sense??

I'll bet if you polled people about direct drive washer motors most people would say LG has one and that it must be better (based solely on their marketing). But is it really or is it just their way to "market" their washers to seem better so you buy them?

I would ask the same questions about Miele's claims. I feel this way about everything we buy. I feel the need to try and dig below the "fluff" and find out what's real. Easier said than done.

Thanks for your feedback on temps. I'm not that particular about the whole "perfect hot" water thing. I'm not going to do boil washes on a regular basis so a warm or hot is going to be enough (has been until this point in my life). I do like that it will maintain it ... but I'd be curious how much heat is really lost in a cycle.

Some of the things Miele is lacking worry me. Vibration isn't one of them since it is going in my basement laundry (tile over concrete). That's why the LG is so enticing, it seems to have everything, including profile wash, but the longevity and quality are the unknown. I played with the controls the other day and it too seems pretty straight forward to me. Much like Miele you select a setting (ie. towels) and you can customize any of the categories (ie. wash/rinse temp, spin speed, etc).

I thought it was interesting in Consumer Reports that the W4842 did not score super high on gentleness. It did score high in wash performance and some other points (in fact only washer to score 5 excellent). I think it scored good but for a machine that markets itself as the most gentle on clothes, you would think that too would have been excellent.

You can only assume from what Miele says that they are well engineered and that Miele knows fabric care. One would hope for that price, it treats you laundry like no other would :)

    Bookmark   January 28, 2011 at 8:37PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

steve_o, you're giving consumers a lot of credit ...

Not really lol I never said that old German marketing model was good. :-) It was very engineering-centric, which appeals primarily to the "obsessed" (if you will) and not to the widest population of potential customers. Miele -- as well as BMW and Mercedes-Benz (and, to a lesser extent, VW and Audi) -- has not done a very good job in describing to consumers exactly what sets them aside from the others and why they're worth the (considerable) money over the others.

OTOH, given the American penchant for buying stuff by the pound, maybe explaining things like optimally-sized washer drums or direction-altering Cardan tunnels just isn't worth the advertising dollars.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2011 at 10:17PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

A couple of things...
NOTE: If STAIN CARE is selected with the SANITARY cycle, the cycle will begin with very hot water since that is default for that cycle and cannot be changed.This is not a profile wash. From what was written in an earlier post, the LG will do a Stain Care/profile wash on lower temperature cycles but not on the Sanitary cycle. This makes no sense, as the sanitary cycle would benefit the most from a profile wash - start at a low temp and bring the water up to a very high temperature. Something doesn't smell right.

As to the comment about Miele not designing steam into their machines until they can "do it perfectly", I think that is a cop out on Miele's part. Miele includes steam function in their commercial products, so why not bring a less expensive variation that technology to the consumer level? I have always viewed steam as a gimmick in washing machines. I can understand their function in the dryer, but so far I've just read a lot of negative feedback about how the clothes are left limp and wet. I have much better luck by spraying water on the item I want "steamed" and then throwing it into the dryer for about 10 mins. Perfect results every time without the need to run water to your dryer.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2011 at 11:14AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

I'm not sure what technical reason (or not technical?) LG has for not being able to over ride the Sanitary setting when Stain Care is selected. I think even on just a hot wash this option is beneficial as it will start warm and go up to hot. I don't believe that's an option on the Miele?

For me personally, this whole "high temp" doesn't feel like a big deal. Having never had a heater, I don't feel the need to boil my stuff. I really question what items I will wash on sanitary anyway (sheets?). My sheets are good quality Egyptian cotton ... what does that do to fabrics? It scares me ...

What is nice about steam (Miele has this in Germany now so there must be some benefit or Miele is just following the pack) is you can sanitize without submerging items in super hot water (which is better for fabrics).

LG says this about the steam option in the washer: By using a hot steam spray from above and cooler water below, fabrics get the cleaning benefits of a super hot wash, without the energy usage or potential damage to fabrics.

The LG dryer (DLEX3885 / DLGX3886) even has a:
SteamSanitary cycle refreshes and sanitizes dry items in
the SteamDryer . The SteamSanitary cycle kills bacteria
on your clothes and is great for decorative pillows and other non-washable items.

This is one of the features I like as I don't want to wash in such hot water ... this gives a no water way to sanitize. Great for kids stuffed toys/pillows ... if it's for real than I think that is great. It is NSF certified to sanitize so I would hope it works.

I just returned from a kids' birthday party and got taking with my good friend's SIL. She just got Miele about 2 months ago after owning Maytag (they build custom homes and move a lot). She wasn't blown away by the Miele. She did say they were more quiet than her Maytag (intersting) but there were a few things she wasn't thrilled about. For example, she likes to toss something in the dryer for a quick fluff and the Miele won't allow it as the item is dry so the sensor won't run the dryer. She's tried the cold fluff and it doesn't work for her.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2011 at 1:32PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo

For example, she likes to toss something in the dryer for a quick fluff and the Miele won't allow it as the item is dry so the sensor won't run the dryer. She's tried the cold fluff and it doesn't work for her.Your friend is correct, the Miele dryer does not work well with single items or very light loads; it much prefers large loads. There is a "45 min warm" setting, but it is made for the items to be placed atop the dryer rack accessory that comes with the unit.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2011 at 2:49PM
Sign Up to comment
More Discussions
which compact washer/dryer?
I really wanted the Miele touchtronic washer/dryer...
New Front Load Speed Queens
Hi everyone, we are replacing our old GE's- adding...
Fisher Paykel Washer/Dryer
Sears is now carrying Fisher Paykel washers and dryers....
Persil at Walmart!
I was looking through the walmart flyer and I saw that...
Official Cheer HE Powder...Finally
I was so happy to find that P&G now offers Cheer...
Sponsored Products
Red Carpet Studios Natural Jewels S Hooks - 30031
$14.99 | Hayneedle
Quick Ship & Assembled Cabinets: Home Decorators Collection Kitchen Cabinets
Home Decorators Collection
Home Decorators Runner Rug: Divani Terra and Beige 2' 6" x 8'
Home Depot
Lake Forest 2". Free Samples and Shipping!
$39.00 |
American Drew Jessica McClintock Couture Splat Back Dining Side Chairs - Set of
$950.00 | Hayneedle
Home Decorators Collection Blinds & Shades Cut-to-Width White 2-1/2 in. Premium
Home Decorators Collection
Dalyn Marcello MO102 8'2" x 10' Chocolate Rug
$272.50 | PlushRugs
Malibu Flood Lights Low Voltage LED Real Copper Flood Light 8421-2605-01
$99.97 | Home Depot
© 2015 Houzz Inc. Houzz® The new way to design your home™