Do HE TL washer really Clean?

jungleexplorerNovember 18, 2011

I have had a traditional Maytag TL washer for the last 10 years. The motor went out yesterday in the middle of a wash, so I was off to Lowes to buy another. Things have changed a lot in the washer world in the last 10 years. I wanted to go with a FL. I did some online research before heading for the store and found a Samsung WF461AWB 3.9 Cu for $699. It had good reviews so I went to buy it. Well, Lowes out and was not getting any in until after Thanksgiving. So there I was, wet clothes in my broken Maytag and no idea what to buy. Lowes had the WF350ANW FL for $499, but it was only a 3.7 Cu and it just looked kind of small to me. All other FLs with higher capacities over 4 Cu were all over $1,100 (out of my reach). So I went looking at TLs. They had the Samsung WA5451ANW 4.7 Cu on sale for $649. The tub looked huge without the agitator sticking up in the middle, so I bought it. BTW, I camp a lot and wash sleeping bags all the time and that is why I want a big tub.

I am on my second load and I must say that I am worried. It really does not seem like this thing could get clothes clean. On the normal setting it does not seem to put enough water on the clothes. It has a glass top so I can watch it work. The water level is like two inches below the level of the clothes. The agitator spins one way, stops for about two seconds, spins the other way, stops for 2 seconds, and spins the other way. The clothes don't even seem to circulate. How could they? There not even enough water to float them. I know these new HE washer are designed to save water, but saving water in not as important as getting clothes clean.

Now I know that FL can use less water and get away with it because the clothes tumble inside the drum as it rotates horizontally, but can these HE TL washers do the same with just that X shape thing on the bottom that replaced the agitator? Please help me! I am really upset here. Did I buy the wrong washer? Is it defective? Can this HE top loading washer really get clothes clean?

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Have no idea about yours, ours which is a TL HE (LG WT5101H) does a great job of cleaning.
It measures just enough water to cover the clothes each time regardless of load size, there always seems to be plenty of water. We have the option to add water if needed but so far have seen no need at all.

Ours sounds like it does about the same motion, but the clothes circulate fine, they look like they are in a boiling cauldron with clothes boiling up in the middle.
The agitator on ours works the hell out of them, then takes the detergent water and while it spins runs the water into the middle of the tub which basically pushes the water through the clothes while they are spinning.
Then swishes then back and forth again.

All in all cleans everything fine.

Here is a link that might be useful: Youtube video of LG wt5101H

    Bookmark   November 18, 2011 at 4:35PM
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The question at this point is, are your clothes coming clean out of the machine or not? If they are, then the machine apparently is working OK. :-)

HE impeller toploaders work on a different principle than agitator toploaders. The clothes are not supposed to float loosely, the load is supposed to contact the impeller.

The designated Bulky Items cycle uses more water. Use it for your sleeping bags and other such items, DO NOT wash them on the Regular/Normal, Heavy Duty cycle, etc.

If you're truly not happy with the machine, check about exchanging it for a frontloader ... but be aware that frontloaders nowadays also don't fill with as much water as in the past.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2011 at 4:36PM
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Yes they can and do get clothes clean; some better than others. They just work differently than the traditional top load washer that you are used to.

I've been using front load washers for the past 26 years because they frankly clean better than traditional top load washers( in my experience ). Since I have a fairly large laundry room and am somewhat laundry obsessed, I began purchasing HE top loaders as they were introduced to compare them with the frontloaders I was using and loved.

I've had everything that's been available starting with the "Calypso", then the GE Harmony, Maytag Neptune TL,and the Kenmore Oasis. I didn't like any of these machines primarily due to poor cleaning and/or excessive wrinkling. I had almost given up on an HE top load machine when the LG Waveforce came out. The reviews were quite good so I "bit the bullet" this past July and bought the model with the heater. It does everything it's advertised to do. Huge capacity, clean clothes and minimal wrinkles.

It actually cleans as well as my AEG lavamat. So well in fact that I just sold the AEG to my Yardman.

I can't speak about the Samsung as I have not used that model but it looks similar to the LG's. The best advice I can give is read and reread your owners manual and follow it exactly.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2011 at 4:37PM
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On my third load. I used the Heavy Duty setting for this load because I read that it uses more water then normal. I have found many people with same model as me complaining that the water does not cover the clothes on the normal setting. Indeed the Heavy Duty setting does add more water. But still I watched the same pair of short sit on top for ten minutes while it was washing. I am not seeing the "Boiling" effect described by Nunyabiz1. The salesman that sold me the washer said that the tub and the agitator are supposed to spin in opposite directions. My tub never moves. Only the agitator moves.

I can't really say if the clothes are cleaner, since they are not really dirty to start off with. I mean, soaking clothes in a bucket of soapy water and rinsing them will clean them some too.
Here is a quote from Samsung;

"Like other high efficiency (HE) top load washers, the WA5471 is not designed to submerge clothes in water, but rather to circulate the clothes through the water and the water back over the clothes. This is made possible by the stainless steel pulsator which creates a "blossoming" action as it tumbles the clothes, and Samsung's recirculating pump which takes the water from the bottom of the drum and circulates it back over the top of the clothes during each portion of the cycle."

I don't see any "Blossoming" or recirculating of the water going on. All see is a half spin to the left, and then a half spin to the right. The clothes in the middle seem to stay put, or get twisted a little and the ones on the outside move one way and then back the other way.

    Bookmark   November 18, 2011 at 5:28PM
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Well on our LG it is "Blooming" like crazy, but it does seem we have just a bit more water.
I saw this same question asked on the Samsung website and someone has 3 pictures of the tub when it is washing and the water is about 1 to 2" or so BELOW the top of the clothes, basically you can barely tell if there is water in it, almost just looks like wet clothes in the bottom.
On ours the water seems about even with the clothes and we can easily add more water if we feel the need just by pushing a button which we haven't seen any need for yet.

Here is a link that might be useful: Samsung question site

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 4:21PM
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Jungleexplorer, It sounds like you didnt read your owners manual, it clearly states that the waher does not fill up over the clothes and they will not be submurged in water like a traditional top loader. You didnt not menton if your second load came out clean. My parents have your washer and they are very pleased with it. It uses the same amount of water that you describe. I have a LG, it works great

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 9:12PM
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I hate to be a buzz kill and I'm not a big LG fan but...
The only HE TL washer that even remotely looks like it's actually doing something regarding the washing process is the LG WaveForce.

Otherwise it looks to me like the clothes on the bottom (close to the wash plate) get a good beating while the clothes on the top and side just sit there.

The WaveForce would be the only TL HE washer I would consider.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2011 at 11:09PM
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I haven't really looked at any of the other Top loader HE machines working so dont know.

I know my old Maytag TL HE had a great method of agitation, it had 2 wheels one on each side and the tub was basically round like a ball and the two wheels spun working the clothes pretty good.
So the only real life experience I have with the 2 TL HE machines I have owned both work damn well.
IMO actually do A LOT more to work/clean clothes than any front loader does which basically just lifts the clothes up and plops it down and that is basically all.

FL just don't impress me at all.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 12:40AM
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I would like thank all of you for your help. Unfortunately nothing could save this washer from my wife's wrath. After five loads she was so upset that started feeling bad and thought her heart was skipping and got the thesiscope out to check. On the last load (whites), she showed how dingy they looked and showed me visable dirt that was left behind. She then put the whole load into an old washer I keep out in the shed to wash really dirty things like camping bedding, hunting and fishing clothes. The clothes came out sparkling white from the old washer. That was it. She ordered me to take it back. After 25 years of marriage, I know when and when not to take a stand with my wife. When it comes to her washing machine, she gets her way every time.

This washer might work for someone with an office job who's clothes just need a light rinsing. But for people who have dirt jobs or lifestyles, I really don't think you could rely on the any HE Top loading washer to clean your clothes. As I said before, soaking your clothes in soapy water and rinsing them will clean clothes from light use effects like sweat, body oils and dead skin cells. But real dirt requires scrubbing and lots of water. The light swishing that these HE TL waters do, simply doesn't cut it.

I have read countless reviews from others who agree with me. I really could care less about all the hoopla that claims these things can do as good a job as an old style TL washer. When I pay $650 for a washer, I expect it to a better job then the $250 machine it replaced. Gimics, fancy names and high sounding unfounded scientific theory do not impress me. The proof is in the results. The results on my HE washer stunk. It went back to the store. It was funny how the people at the store tried to blame me for the failure of the washer. What all their comments amounted to was, I did not hold my toung just right. One guy actually said that HE washer cannot work if you put any clothes in the middle. He said that I had to stack the clothes around edge of the tub and only washnsmall loads. Yep! I bought a 4.7 Cu washing machine so I could wash two pairs of socks at a time!

I have a FL on order. We will see how it does.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 12:59AM
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Yeah, we've had a front loader for about 10 years now, and it's still going strong, far as I can tell. It's one of those "FridgeMores"...made by Frigidaire to Kenmore's specs. Doesn't have a heater, but just keeps on working.

I'd consider one of the LG5101's, but I know that front loaders do well, our clothes are clean. My wife's not overly found of it since we didn't get the pedestals, and she's not fond of that part, but not having the pedestals doesn't bother me, other than the fact that it bothers her *smile*. I think that she'd be fine with a top loader, I'm just looking for a washer that's easy on water and energy and gets our clothes clean.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 3:13AM
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Good luck with that front loader.

While that particular TL HE washer might not clean well, not ALL TL HE are like that.
Our TL HE washer does a hell of a lot more than any FL I have ever seen.
Same with my last TL HE.
All a FL does is put a few gallons of water in the bottom of a sideways tub and turn lifting the clothes up about a foot and dropping them down. Hardly what one would call "scrubbing".

I wouldn't listen to idiot salesmen at any store, they usually know less than nothing. That is probably the stupidest thing I have heard one of them say. (don't put clothes in the middle) LOL

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 9:47AM
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"does a hell of a lot more than any FL I have ever seen"

Could you elaborate on how many FL washers you've seen in action? I know you've never owned one and stated on another thread that only one person you know has owned one.

That makes your above statement pretty worthless (IMHO).

"All a FL does is put a few gallons of water in the bottom of a sideways tub and turn lifting the clothes up about a foot and dropping them down."

Yet again .... making claims you have no knowledge about at all.

Miele, known in most of the world as the best washing machine you can buy uses FL technology. I wonder why that is?

Even leading magazines say most FL wash and rinse better than traditional TL or HE TL.

Your HE TL might be fantastic - happy for you and your wife - but there are many great FL machines.

@rogerv, good luck with your FL. You didn't specify which one you got so no one here can give you any insight.

I do hope you selected one with an on board heater.

I will tell you not all FL are created equal. I hope you chose wisely :)

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 12:51PM
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I have a Samsung front loader and I can testify that their approach to an Energy Star rating is to ration the amount of water so that clothes barely can get wet. Too much fiddling needed just to get a clean and rinsed wash. On mine I use a Heavy Duty setting for all loads as well as an extra long wash and extra rinse. Then if the load is thick towels or bedding I open the door and shut it and run a quick wash with no soap to get the last out. Yuk. And I paid almost $1500 dollers for this. I would take it back and use a laundramat until you can get the LG suggested.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 1:20PM
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Nunyabiz1, dropping the clothes that 1' is a large part of the cleaning action ... slapping them against the drum and forcing water through. Frontloaders nowadays typically fill a bit higher on the Delicate cycle for purpose of cushioning the fall and cradling the items for gentler action. LESS water (to a point) makes for a more aggressive SLAP and more washing action.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 1:20PM
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Loading around the perimeter.

I had the GE Harmony machine for a few months and did find that loading clothes around the tub as if there were an agitator produced more rollover in the wash load. I was also told to load clothing an article at a time rather than forcing an armful of clothes in at once.

Basically, it was explained to me that how you load your washing machine should be done with the same care as your dishwasher. You wouldn't grab an armful of dishes and just force them into the machine would you?



    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 2:35PM
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@nerdyshopper, I can't speak to your specific machine or situation but I know two people who own Samsung FL machines and love them. They don't go through any of the "rig a ma roll" you are and have clean clothes. What could cause two such different experiences?

    Bookmark   November 21, 2011 at 5:46PM
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What I don't understand about HE TL washers: The impeller must impart a lot of force to the clothes, in order to move them all around. How does it do it without occasionally damaging an item at the bottom?

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 12:06AM
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All I can say is my LG HE TL cleans clothes and I do not have a light office job, quite the oposite. I work in a machine shop, jeans and t shirt come home oily, dirty and drungy and my machine takes it all out. I do not use any additive than tide He soap. Whites are snow white too. Im sorry about your experience jungleeplorer, my bet is your wife wont like the FL either when she see's how little water they use. I had a FL for 10 yrs, loved it. I went to the HE TL due to the fact I didnt want to buy pedistals again and my washer is on the right and I I was limited to machines that have a reversible door. I wish the both of you good luck on your new machine

    Bookmark   November 22, 2011 at 4:24PM
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OP, I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience, but I have to agree with those who say that not all HE TL's are like that one.

I am the very grateful owner of a Maytag Bravos HE TL and absolutely love it. It cleans my laundry better than any washer I've ever owned, and my dh and ds's get their work and sports clothes REALLY dirty, even greasy.

I don't know if your Samsung had an internal water heater or not, but I do have to use TRUE hot water in order to get whites clean and white. Which is why I bought a washer with an internal water heater. The great majority of washers on the market these days do not give true hot water even when you set it for a "hot" water wash. Instead, the water is mixed with cold water to save energy.

Here's hoping you have a far better experience with the next washer. :)

    Bookmark   November 23, 2011 at 12:54AM
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Well thought I would add this to the mix since our washer is brand new and have only done I think now its 9 loads through it counting the one today.

BUT, I woke up this morning to my wife doing a load and reason why was my mothers Pomeranian puked on the rug that lays in front of her dog bed. It is one of those thick carpet type rugs with the rubber backing.

We had a over sized Queen down comforter that needed cleaning also, we just use as kind of a throw now because we have a King sized bed.
The comforter is made of microfiber and full of 600 fill goose down.
She put these 2 things in the washer together, plenty of room, put it on "bedding/bulky" setting.
In that setting it uses "ample" water in both wash and rinse cycles.
So I went down there a minute or so after it starts and I look in and go OMG this should be a real test.

Started out the first about 4-5 minutes looking like uh oh this is going to be one of those I read about saying a big section in the center on top just stays dry and nothing is really washing.
But right then it did a little jiggle like it was sizing it up, started a very slow like 25-50rpm spin then stopped and swoosh, went back & forth and bam that rug on top was sucked right down and the whole comforter I could tell was being nicely worked. One side is beige the other navy blue and the rug was different color of tan so was easy to tell what was going where.
It really worked it VERY well, seemed to almost be boiling, the rug was working its way to the top and back down over & over. This is a 3'X 2' bath rug.

Then comes the various spins, which I thought might be a problem with such a load but absolutely no problems at all.
Just the slightest shaking at the very beginning of the wash spin, all the other spins, rinse and final the machine was rock solid, couldn't even tell it was spinning.

So after that I am VERY impressed.

Everything came out clean as can be.

The dryer I put on the same "bedding/bulky" and it first said 44 minutes then after sensing it probably because of the water in the down because it was just a "medium spin" cycle it then adjusted its time to 53 minutes automatically.
I took it out twice to beat it around and shake the down into place and it was perfectly dry when the time was up and fluffy like new.

All in all for such an odd load I don't see how it could have possibly done better.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2011 at 12:53PM
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Nerdyshopper - I don't know whether you are still reading this thread, but there are ways to raise the water level on HE washers. It's a screw adjustment. There are instructions on the web from people who have done it with LG and Whirlpool brands. I pointed a friend of mine to these instructions and he was able to do it on his Duet. You might want to do some research on the Samsung.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2011 at 3:10PM
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Thanks all for your advice and personal experience. It is obvious that not all HE TL washers are created equal. All I can say is that the Samsung HE TL (WA5451ANW) washer that we bought, I would not wish on my worst enemy. I have been wearing the clothes my wife washed in it over the last week and I can tell you right now, they are not clean and they still have soap in them. I have the rash to prove it! Now some might say that we got a lemon, but from all the research I did, I believe the machine was working exactly as it was designed to.

There have been a lot of people that have offered advice on how to overcome the poor design of HE washers by stacking clothes a certain way, adjusting screws etc. And while many people don't mind paying an outrageous price for a piece of equipment that is poorly designed and they have to learn to hold their tongue just right to get it to work; I am not one of those people. When I pay more, I expect more and better, not less and worse.

All I can say is, I have never had this problem with traditional washers, and there is no way I am going to pay double or triple what I paid for my last washer and not expect it to be easier to use and more effective at washing. As I said before, I will see how the FL washer does when I get it in, and if it not a marvel to behold (for the price I paid for it), it will go back and I will find a new motor for my old Maytag.

I am an avid conservationist but I believe this whole "Green" movement is nothing more then a way to brainwash consumers in to expecting less and pay more so that manufacturers can produce inferior products and consumers will pay more for them because they are "Green".

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 10:29AM
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I have 6 months experience with my new LG WaveForce (WT5001C). There are two things to consider if one is thinking about buying this machine:
1. Think about the model with the onboard heater. My model does not have it and the water is never more than lukewarm. "Hot" has no significance when selecting temperature. This is not a showstopper for me since I am a cold water laundry gal anyway. Consumer Reports convinced me that cold water cleans as well as and sometimes better than hot water.
2. The WaveForce is wonderful to behold -- like a double Horseshoe Falls, but keep in mind it only works in particular situations. According to the footnote on page 14 of the user manual "NOTE: WAVEORCE is available for 8 lb or larger loads in the COTTON/NORMAL or HEAVY DUTY cycles." This means my 2-person household does laundry only once or twice/week to take advantage of this feature. Fine with me, but shoppers should know this in advance of purchasing.

Overall I like the machine. Clothes dry very fast because the spin cycle RPM is so high. However, it is rough. Jeans legs will knot. There is no delicate cycle on this model so I now use a mesh bag for things that could be damaged by the aggressive action.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 1:15PM
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I have new Whirlpool TL - had it for 3 weeks. I must say it gets my laundry really clean !! NO MORE STINKY TOWELS like from my 6yr old FL He Kenmore.

I HATE the color. It is a dark charcoal gray. Salesman told me it would be 'Lunar Silver' color but come to find out that the new model WP now doesn't come in pretty silver color, just charcoal. They have agreed to replace it w/Lunar Silver ones but they will be last year's models (same price as this years).

These work really well but will have them a long time and dislike color???

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 5:58PM
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My parents have to Samsung HE TL, they love it! They came from a front loader and my picky mom says it washes as good as her frontloader did. Trust me, her clothes are clean, because my dad would hear it and so would I. I have the LG model with the heater, clothes are clean! As good as my front loader cleaned them. The only thng I miss is the higher spind speeds that a front loader offers. 1400 rpm vs 1100 rpm. If your HE TL doesnt clean for you, you didnt read the manual and/ or do something right. As far as water temps go, all new washers have been thmbed down, by the US government, with the exception of Miele to my knowlwdge. They choose not to take the tax breaks to lower thier wash temperatures (good for them :) ) Even though I am washing in cooler water for almost a year now, I cannot see any difference in the cleaning ability of my washer.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 10:18AM
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I find it so mysterious that people can have such opposite experiences with the same machines. In my opinion in most cases it must not be the machine itself but some external factors.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 11:09AM
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livebetter - my guess is this - once a bad experience is noted concerning the form-factor - all in that form factor suck (PCs, laptops, coupes, CUVs, LED, plasma, wired, wireless ... you get my drift here).

The only real and decent reviews will be done on the criteria (does it clean? are my whites/white? my clothes don't smell bad...etc). Experience between one bit of ownership and another, bah, is so subjective based on the history of the machine(s); however, if the majority of the reviews say GOOD/BAD/UGLY, that's where I'd put my money.

You are defending your FLs based on your experiences (why, I have no idea, it's not even relevant to this discussion), where most here are answering the question JUNGLEEXPLORER asked. I have 11yrs experience with my POS FL (Maytag Neptune) and 1yr experience with our wonderful TL (LG WT5101). It's night and day based on MY CRITERIA above.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 11:47AM
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"You are defending your FLs based on your experiences (why, I have no idea, it's not even relevant to this discussion)"

Did you read the whole discussion??

The OP (JUNGLEEXPLORER) bought a FL - did you miss that information?

"I have a FL on order. We will see how it does."

Another poster (who has no real life experience with FL) made some comments on FL and I merely responded with my real life experience.

We are all entitled to our own opinion - that's what these forums provide. Lots of different points of view.

Each individual and their needs are unique. What's a shame is when one person feels their ideas are the only right and inteligent ideas.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 12:26PM
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I am wondering why you did not try to get your traditional top loading Maytag of 10 years repaired? As you know, the older, traditional Maytag washers were "built to last". A new motor shouldn't have been too costly. The guys over at would be able to help you. Secondly, I purchased a Maytag Neptune front loader on May 1, 1999. This is the second model Neptune that Maytag came out with. The pair have performed flawslessly since May 1, 1999. No complaints with the washer nor the dryer.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 4:10PM
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There were a LOT of engineering changes/improvements on the Neptune frontloader as production went along from the first MAH3000 model, to MAH4000, MAH5500/6500/7500.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 4:16PM
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In my experience, 4 loads in a HE TL LG WT4801cW, they do not clean clothes. The only reason I did 4 loads is because I had put a 3rd load in before realizing the second load wasn't clean, and had to re-wash it. DH watched a sock remain on the top without getting wet in the wash cycle with the 1st load. I saw the same thing happening with the 3rd load so I paused the machine, opened it and re-arranged the laundry so everything could at least get wet.

It doesn't appear that you can do spin only, just 'rinse & spin', so I can't hand wash a wool throw and spin the water out in the washer.

I read here that choosing bulky or heavy duty will cause these machines to fill with more water, however, the instructions for this one say if you choose bulky you should only put in a small amount at a time and, you shouldn't include smaller laundry items because this could ruin the clothes or machine.

The machine regular cycle ran for 51 minutes. So I figure with nearly 2 hours of electricity to run one load through twice, plus the extra water to try to re-wash the load, and the fact that the clothes still aren't very clean,there is a net loss for the environment.

Just got back from returning the LG in exchange for a dented Fischer-Paykel with a high speed spin that allows you to choose your own water level, and spin only. I don't even want to look at F-P reviews right now. I've heard really good things about them on another forum.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 6:04PM
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Wish I had never ever bought one Maytag TL Bravous what a piece of crap!!! Nothing is clean nothing. I will be replacing this as soon as I can afford to. Plus it rips and tears towels over time.I hate it just hate it dingy stained laundry...

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 11:48PM
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Got our Samsung WF520ABW front loading washer yesterday. My wife washed 3 loads so far and is happy with the result. This thing takes about two hours per load, so I am not sure how it could be more efficient, but with me that is not really the point of a washing machine. It is very quite. On one load, it started the spin cycle and it was out of balance, so it stopped, added some water, did some slow revolutions and started the spin cycle again. That was pretty neat.

So my wife is happy and that means I am happy. My only worry at this point is how long this thing will last. It cost over $900. If it only last a few years, I am going to be one ticked off puppy. If it last 10 or more years, I will be satisfied.

I will report back after we have used it some more.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2011 at 11:23AM
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For me, I've never had any dingy clothing or items come out dirty or half wet etc..
I sort my loads and don't overload even though the capacity can "take" it. Works for me.
I currently use a GE Harmony HE TL.
I have friends with FL that say clothes don't come clean.
IMHO everyone has an opinion and ways of doing laundry.
You just can't make everyone happy. Some love their machines and others with the same unit despise theirs!
Could you imagine NOT having access to a washer in general?! Wow now that would be hard to handle! =)

    Bookmark   November 28, 2011 at 1:36PM
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Yeah I wouldn't look at Fischer-Paykel reviews if I were you.

If that FP works for you then great, cross your fingers and let er rip.

For us the LG WT5101H works fantastic, cleans clothes as clean as any washer we have ever had, is quiet, well built, we can add water if we ever feel the need. (So far have seen no need as it uses plenty of water).

The agitation on ours leaves NOTHING just "sitting on top high and dry" ours looks like it is boiling and turning the clothes over & over, large or small loads makes no difference so far.
I guess I have been super lucky with washing machines as in the 40 years that I have bought washing machines (since age 18) I have never had a bad one.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2011 at 5:15PM
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Nuniyabiz1, I looked at one thread about Fisher & Paykel,and the reviews were good, very much like those on the other board I had read.

I've never had a bad washing machine before the LG either. We've only had three, and would probably still have the second one if we hadn't left it at our previous house when we moved. I can't remember the brand, but that was a great washer. The first was a good reconditioned Kenmore that reached the end of it's life. The LG was to replace the beater GE that came with this house. It still worked pretty well, the spin was weak and it unbalanced easily, and unless it was set at the lowest agitation, it ruined the clothes, but at least the things that survived the wash cycle were clean. I've never heard of a washer that didn't clean clothes. I couldn't imagine it even possible, until the LG.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2011 at 7:06PM
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Why not look at F&P? My AquaSmart has been a flawless performer for the past 3 years. Most under pretty heavy use. Loading is very important in a HE TL machine. If done improperly, clothes can twist up or form giant balls of mashed up clothes. Drop in items around the outside of the tub. Drop jeans in legs first and waist on top. If you put them in sideways, they will twist and wrinkle like crazy. HE TL machines use a reverse tumble action, pushing clothes to the outside of the tub and back over the top of the impeller sides.

Like most new "green" things, there is a learning curve to using it. It took me a few loads, but it was not that difficult.

After my sisters horrible experience with her WP duet Sport FL machines, I will stay away from all but the high end FL machines. I love the simple, easy to fix Fisher & Paykel machines.

    Bookmark   November 28, 2011 at 11:01PM
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Hey Booker. Funny you should mention life without a washing machine. I lived in the Amazon jungle for 12 year and washed all my clothes by hand on a rock in the river. But that was free and if my clothes did not get clean, I had no one to blame but myself. Talk about inefficient, I would use half a million gallons per shirt! Lol!

    Bookmark   November 29, 2011 at 9:39AM
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Does the Amazon care whether your jeans legs face upstream or downstream?

    Bookmark   November 29, 2011 at 10:55AM
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What I meant by don't look at the FP reviews is that you already have it and by & large there are many appliances where there are more bad than good reviews especially if the item has been out for more than 5 years.
So really don't matter what the reviews say as long as your particular machine works.

For instance, we bought a Maytag Neptune HE TL about 7 years ago, never had a problem with it, washed great, was flawless.
BUT just out of curiosity I checked reviews on it right as we were about to sell it to get the LG.
The reviews I read would make milk curdle, I think I saw like ONE good review of it, all the rest hated it with a burning passion.

However ours was great, cleaned great, never had a single problem in 7+ years. I would have given it a glowing review.

As far as loading a HE TL, I have not noticed ANY such manure at all. We just toss the clothes in, add the detergent and drop the lid.
Makes no difference how the clothes are loaded at all as long as you don't try to stuff them in and get up on it and stomp them down with your feet.

Just load them in loosely like you would any washer and turn it on.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2011 at 11:37AM
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Introducing the amazing Amazon River model, Whirlpool washer. Capacity 500,000 to 10,000,000 gallons per minute (depending on the season). It requires no electricity and can wash as many clothes as you want until the skin rubs off your fingers or your back breaks, which ever comes first.

Disclaimer: The Amazon River Model does not warranty the cleanliness of your clothes regardless of how hard you have scrubbed them and cannot be held liable for acts of God such torrential down pours and muddy rivers that may have an adverse affect on your whites.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2011 at 11:44AM
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The dented Fisher & Paykel EcoSmart WA42T26GW1 arrived yesterday, and I washed a load of laundry with it. In short, it works great; the laundry looked and smelled clean. I used the auto fill -- you can select the water level if you want. The auto fill defaults to the manual selections, but that's okay with me. It chose the right level to thoroughly wet the laundry. I'll just use the auto setting from now on. It's quiet during both wash and spin cycles. I love the high speed spin. Time in the dryer is cut in half. This will be great next spring & summer when it will be much easier to carry a basket of damp laundry to the line to dry.

I wish it had a glass top so you could watch the washing process. I never had any interest in this before the LG, but now I feel you need to watch the washer like a hawk to make sure it is really washing the laundry.

Wolfc70, I think Mrs. Jungleexplorer, DH & I were exceptionally fast learners when it came to "green" HE TL washers. :)

Thanks for starting this thread Jungleexplorer. It was very helpful. Good luck with further research and development of your Amazon River model washer. I still want to know if the River cares about the direction of your jeans.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2011 at 7:56AM
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Depends on the washer. All HE front loaders I have used in the past have gotten clothes clean. The key is not to sit there watching and worrying about your machine. I did that with the front loader I have to temporarily use (since I am currently renting and have to use the washing machine in the house) and I was worrying that the small puddle in the bottom of the drum, which wasn't even visible under all the clothes, wouldn't even get the clothes wet let alone clean but I saw at the end of the cycle that my clothes were perfectly clean and smelling great. Most washing machines, unless you have some cheap Chinese brand, know what they are doing and were designed to get clothes clean. Now I don't recall, in all the HE top loaders I have used, arranging clothes in a specific way around the edge or washing each item of clothing seperately I just drop the clothes in the tub and start the wash cycle and let the machine do its job. Both top loaders and front loaders get the job done, I have not found either machine to be better at cleaning clothes, they both do the same job. The difference is that clothes come out slightly drier from a top loader due to a design flaw with the horizontal orientation of the front loader drum, which cause only a portion of the water to drain to the bottom, the other portion drains back onto the drum thats why front loaders need a higher spin speed, so there is nothing to miss with the slow speed of top loaders they will get clothes just as dry. Seems to me there is something wrong with the OP's machine since the tub doesn't rotate, the tub is supposed to rotate along with the impeller rotating in the opposite direction. The best machine I have used is the LG Fuzzy Logic TL since it has multiple impellers each rotating in different directions while changing directions rapidly. If you have extremely dirty clothes (don't know how dirty yours are) putting them in either washing machine won't get them clean, sometimes you have to manually scrub (which neither rotating or dropping your clothes in water is an equivalent) until you get the stains out but that should only happen with extremely dirty clothes. Try to clean your clothes as soon as possible after they get dirty before the stains have dried in or apply washing liquid onto the stains.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 3:31PM
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After a year of using a HE Samasung Front Loader, I have to say that it is better then the top loader, but not as good as a good old fashion top loader paddle washer. It does alright for light clothes that are not dirty but towels and other heavy clothes it does not get clean. I have an old style washer and I can wash the same clothes in that washer and the difference is night and day from the HE washer.

The bottom line is that it just takes more water and more scrubbing to get a regular man's clothes clean. An HE washer might do alright for a white collar pansy office worker that does not know what sweat or dirt is, but not for the rest of us normal people that have real jobs.

    Bookmark   February 21, 2013 at 8:12PM
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OK, so my 15yr old Maytag traditional style washer went out, not with a whimper, but a horrible noise like gravel in a grinder. My husband took it apart and said there was no saving it. Besides, my daughter just bought the LG FL and loves it, so off I went washer shopping.

I have to tell this first part because it was just so ridiculous. We went to Home Depot first. Found a Maytag Bravos XL on sale for $499. I said "I'll take it! Load it up." (My husband won't pay delivery charges ever - we bring the truck) This is the ridiculous part... The sales lady says "we don't sell the floor models, we have to get it from the warehouse. If you want it delivered, it will be a WEEK. If you want to pick it up and take it home, it will be 2 WEEKS"!!! What the heck, right??? So we go to SEARS. They have the same model for $650, I asked if they price match. YES!! So I got what I wanted at the HD's sale price. Awesome!!! I get it home and put the first load in and watch thru the window as maybe 2 inches of water sloshes around in my clothes. ??? I'm horrified! I paid twice what my old washer cost and this is what I got? How is this getting my clothes clean? Well, it's been 3 mo now and I still don't know. What I do know is that my clothes ARE clean; no detergent residue, stains come out just like with my old style washer, and they dry quicker (I got the matching dryer for the same sale price :-D). I just wasn't convinced at first that the clothes were really getting agitated around enough to get clean. (Not until I had to unwrap my bras from the socks just like in my old washer.) Then the real test: king size comforter in the bulky cycle. Yup, came out clean and fluffy and fresh and most important: no dog hair.

One thing I would mention for the poster who doubted the salesman's instructions on loading the HE TL washer, the directions in the owners manual says to load clothes in loose heaps around the edges, leaving the center clear. (Believe me, I've read that manual front to back several times trying to figure out what's going on under that lid!) That's how I load mine and I have no issues.

Thanks for information, tips, and support. Now I know I'm not crazy for being doubtful of the new washers and about the wash water being recycled. I thought it was just pumping all my detergent down the drain while it was deciding how much water the load needed! I don't think it uses the same water for the rinse cycle tho, because I hear it going out the drain pipe. I'll pay more attention next time. I just don't have an hour to sit watching thru the window as my clothes get washed. Something akin to watching paint dry, I'd think!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 11:49AM
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I don't think it uses the same water for the rinse cycle tho, because I hear it going out the drain pipe. All these HE TL and FL machines do not reuse wash water for rinsing. Someone, somewhere started this rumor either due to a misunderstanding or via incorrect information from a salesperson or repair tech. As you say above, it's obvious by listening to the machines operate that the water is draining between the wash and rinse phases.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 1:00PM
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You don't need to sit by the washer to watch it:

HE TL Normal Playback
HE TL 4x Playback


    Bookmark   February 10, 2014 at 2:01PM
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Peggy Hopp

We have to "trick" our LG top loader to get enough water to actually clean the clothes. We put in two two-pound soft weighted exercise balls on opposite sides of the bottom of the tub. It works. No more spots and the clothes actually get enough water to get clean. If I had it to do over, I would buy a top loader with an agitator, "old school style". We had to get rid of our front loader because it developed a horrible smell we couldn't get rid of and it did not get clothes clean either.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2015 at 9:57PM
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