Fordtech/Others--Opinion on Coldwater Tide

sparky823November 29, 2010

What are your opinions on the Coldwater Detergents? Now that we have Tide CW,Wisk CW, etc. Do you think they have an added ingredient to help keep scum/build-up from causing problems? I know that Consumers Report rated the Tide CW #1, for all that is worth.

Fordtech-Wanted your opinion since you did the tear down/clean up of your machine caused from using coldwater and liquid detergent.

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fordtech

I don't have an opinion on cold water detergents as I have never used them. I dont think it is logical to use cold water exclusively in a front loader but see no reason you can't use it for some of your loads. I just prescribe at least one hot load per week to keep the scum buildup to a miniumum or gone. I also use liquid clorine bleach on some loads.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 5:09AM
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fordtech

Also should state that I prefer powder detergents exclusively but that is just my preference since I have had no issues since using it. I dont fix what isn't broken.

I also dont trust consumer reports as far as I can throw it. IMHO

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 5:12AM
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gates1

I read somewhere that cold water detergents do not perform any better than a regular detergent in cold water. Yes may disolve better, but as for cleaning performance, no better. It is a marketing scam to get people who wash in mainly cold water to believe the hype. A very few thing I will wash in cold water, and if I do, I use a liquid, not a powder. I am a frim believer that warm and hot water clean better. I tried once washing whites in cold water, I even exptended my wash time for it...poor results, I wont do it again

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 8:38AM
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jakvis

You can do like I did. I called the 800 number and asked the Tide rep about the detergent.
According to Tide it activates in temps as low as 40 F however when I asked if it washed in cold water as well as warm or hot the rep told me the hotter the water the better Tide Coldwater performs.
The only real advantage I see is where most detergents don't activate in temps lower than 60F the Tide C/W will work in lower temps. But how well??? probably ok for basically already clean or very lightly soiled clothes.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2010 at 9:31AM
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dadoes

Tide Coldwater powder (non-HE) is very highly-sudsy. It may not be much available any longer.

Tide HE Coldwater liquid, I use occasionally but not enough to provide an opinion on long-term performance or effects on the machine. I use do use it often for pretreating/soaking certain items (not in the machine) and it works very well for that. The scent is strong, but pleasant.

I've heard that Tide Coldwater deteriorates in performance at hotter temps, that the enzymes are specifically designed for cool temperatures. Can't say if that may be truth or rumor.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2010 at 3:01AM
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livebetter

This is what Tide says about cold water detergents:

How it Works

Like regular Tide, Tide Coldwater contains surfactants. Surfactant molecules have two parts. One is "water loving" and the other is "water hating." The water-loving (hydrophilic) part breaks the surface tension of water. The water-hating (hydrophobic) part is attracted to oil and grease in soils, loosening and removing them from fabrics.

Tide Coldwater is specially designed with an increased amount of surfactant chemistry (as compared to regular Tide) that allows it to penetrate easily into fabrics. Tide Coldwater is also specially formulated with an increased amount of polymer technology (as compared to regular Tide) to suspend dirt particles to help prevent them from redepositing on fabrics, helping keep both your colors bright and your whites white.

I think it's important to remember what "cold" wash really means. It's not tap cold water in mid January here is Canada - LOL.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2010 at 10:08AM
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weedmeister

IIRC, cold means 68F/20C.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2010 at 6:20PM
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kirbyultimateg

I use Tide With Bleach HE liquid in my standard agitator washer with no problems. I use 100F water and 70F water for washing.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2010 at 5:46PM
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mara_2008

I haven't tried Coldwater Tide HE as of yet -- I stocked up on Tide Total Care HE and Woolite HE when they were on sale and I had coupons, and they've lasted a long time. I've been very satisfied with the results I get from both.

When I do run out, I will probably try it to see if it cleans as well in cold water (which I use on our nice church/office clothes and delicates) as the ones I've been using.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2010 at 2:20AM
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fordtech

I took my Neptune 7500 apart a couple weeks ago. Comparing with the 4000 I had after 4 years and this one after 5 years. The 4000 was horrible after using cold water and liquid detergent and liquid softner. Took a couple hours to scrub out the horrible soap scum and mold. It was so smelly that our laundry, house, everything was affected, even our health.

The 7500 on the other hand after 5 years with powder detergent, hot water on some washes every week had ZERO soap scum or mold buildup. It did however have a hard water deposit crust buildup coating the tubs and the heater element. HARD deposits that couldnt be scrubbed off with normal measures. Took me over an hour to get the heater cleaned off alone.

So while I have great confidence in the eradication of smelly washer problems I have now decided that it is very important to take measures against hard water deposit buildup as well. Perhaps citic acid treatments on occasion? Usage of STPP? I stopped using STPP for 3 years and now I think I regret that move. We dont have the zeolites and other things that europeans have in their detergents to help prevent this degree of problem so I am back to the drawing board to try to come up with the best regimin for hard water with US powder detergents and with some hot water washes and LCB.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2010 at 8:12AM
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sparky823

I have posted this before but now forgot what if anything anyone said. Several years ago my neighbor had work done on her TL Kenmore. Had to remove inner tub. She said the top part was a mess--like greasy,gummed up junk(softener from dispenser spinning out) but the bottom was full of hard white powdery stuff. She used Tide/wbleach powder all the time. She and the servicer were talking about what a mess it was in there and he told her if she would use Wisk all the time she wouldn't have that problem. Would this be because it is liquid--although it can also build up--or could it be the citrate in it that helps keep the tubs/parts clean?

I have had a couple people tell me lately how well they like the new Wisk, so I tried it. Does well. I will say I had a rust color shirt that was washed in something else, then noticed some grease spatters on the front . Next time it was washed used the Wisk and did not pretreat and all the spots came out. I thought I might try the Sears Powder but not sure which one to get. Years ago, my Mom used it but I think there was just one kind then and it was in boxes that weighed a ton. Sears even had a "detergent club" that after you bought so many boxes you got one free. That has been a long time ago--seems like in the early 70's.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 3:22AM
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livebetter

fordtech, you can get powder detergents that have zeolites in them.

Seventh Generation powder contains it:
http://www.seventhgeneration.com/Laundry-Detergents

Ecover powder contains it:
http://www.ecover.com/us/en/Products/Laundry/Laundry+Powder.htm

BioKleen powders contain it (I'm using this link to show ingredients):
http://www.drugstore.com/qxp94854/biokleen/premium_plus_all_temperature_laundry_powder_with_enzymes.htm?fromsrch=biokleen

Persil (German which is available here) contains it.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 10:00AM
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livebetter

It looks like even Tide contains it - Sodium aluminosilicate (I believe is a zeolite). It's the first ingredient.
http://www.tide.com/en-US/product/tide-he-powder.jspx

What are you using now?

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 10:04AM
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fordtech

Ive used Sears Ultra Plus HE for the past 3 years

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 2:07PM
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fordtech

Oh and Im just wanting to spend less than 50 or 60 bucks a box like Persil, but if I have to buy a bunch of additives that make it as high as Persil, well maybe I will get Persil.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 2:09PM
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fordtech

Here is what Im trying to avoid.. hard water scale. This is the ouside of the stainless spinner and in background the inside of the outer tub.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 2:38PM
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suburbanmd

Chemistry Store's shipping charges are less onerous (smaller fraction of the merchandise price) on larger orders . So if you buy, say, three 5 lb. pails of STPP, and a couple of 2 lb. jars of sodium percarbonate, it isn't a bad deal, at least not for shipping to Maryland. That order comes out to $49.70 merchandise, plus $17.45 shipping. They also sell citric acid.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2010 at 9:54PM
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fordtech

Great, thanks suburbanmd!

    Bookmark   December 19, 2010 at 7:11AM
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gates1

It is interesting to see the hard water build up in your machine. I have a 9yr old HE3T FL, I can see the heater with a flash light at the bottom on the drum, no build up on it at all. I do have very hard water, hense why my bath room facets have get a build up around the opening spout. I thought all detergents had some form of water softening agent in them. I mainly use liquids, now I try to use powder, but it is so limited to find and buy.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2010 at 3:08PM
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fordtech

Ive had people say that Im not using enough detergent that is causing this...

    Bookmark   December 19, 2010 at 4:33PM
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livebetter

fordtech, you may find spending the extra on Persil worth it. Most of Europe has hard water so this detergent is made to work in hard water (obviously since it's made for Germany). I use it among other products and have to say that it cleans well and rinses very nicely.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 10:41AM
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fordtech

I used it for a couple years livebetter along with some STPP. I liked it a lot. The cheap sale prices of Sears ultra plus drew me away for the past few years though. I wish I had pulled it apart after the two years with Persil just to see how it was doing then. Its amazing how fast a few years flies by in this busy world.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2010 at 6:50PM
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sparky823

Will something like Washer Magic clean the build up off?

    Bookmark   December 21, 2010 at 12:48PM
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fordtech

At this stage I doubt it. Its rock hard and even hard to scratch with a wire brush. Ill just leave it and try things like citric acid and such but its not bad enough to cause balance issues. It scraped off the plastic outer tub reasonably easily, just very tough on the metal components. I have another inner basket purchased but I wont put it on till I have a major fail like a bearing or my scheduled rebuild in about 5 years.

    Bookmark   December 21, 2010 at 1:17PM
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sparky823

Would be interesting to know if it was this way while using the Persil. Do you think it could be the Sears detergent or just from the hard water? Why did it not do this with the 4000--because you were using liquid?

    Bookmark   December 21, 2010 at 10:56PM
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fordtech

Only thing I can think of is that the slimey soap/mold buildup was actually coating all the surfaces protecting them from hard water crust from forming? Cold water only and I dont use liquid softner anymore either, only dryer sheets. Maybe there is just some crappy water here. We buy drinking water bottled because the water tastes bad.

    Bookmark   December 21, 2010 at 11:18PM
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sshrivastava

If you have hard water, ensure that your detergent has a non-precipitating water softener in it (citrate, citric acid, sodium hexametaphosphate, sodium tripolyphosphate or STPP, etc.). If you are using detergent with a precipitating water softener in it, such as soda ash, washing soda, or sodium carbonate, it will cause calcium precipitates to form in your wash water which will then settle on the metal parts of the washer. This will be especially concentrated on and around the heating element.

Please be aware that STP (not STPP) that you get at the hardware or grocery store is a PRECIPITATING SOFTENER and should not be used. STPP is always recommended over STP.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 12:29PM
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dadoes

Just to say for clarification ... STP above is an incorrect reference. TSP is what sshrivastava meant to say.

TSP = TriSodium Phosphate (wrong product for clothes washing, generates a precipitate).

STPP = Sodium TriPolyPhosphate (the correct additive for clothes washing, or automatic dishwashing, does not generate a precipitate).

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 2:33PM
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sshrivastava

Thank you Dadoes - you are correct, I meant TSP. I'm getting dyslexic in my middle age! :)

    Bookmark   December 24, 2010 at 2:42PM
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fordtech

Thanks for the updates, was out of town for Christmas. Sshrivastav that information is very useful! Thanks!

    Bookmark   December 28, 2010 at 8:58AM
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Pat

I know this is old, but I am curious why you all don't consider switching to the new Wisk (liquid) (with citric acid) as an option. I've been using it for almost 2 years now and really love it. Is it because you prefer a powder detergent in any case? Wisk doesn't appear to be sticky to me. Help.

    Bookmark   August 29, 2011 at 3:01PM
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fordtech

I think the opinions change as time goes by and more results are avaliable. We can guess what caused this or that but the proof is in experience. Ive been visiting this forum for about 7 years now and preferences have changed drastically and opinions of various laudering products and machines. Im pretty stubborn on my use of powder detergent because of my original Neptune disaster which brought me here to begin with and my misunderstanding of the importance of hot water washes and use and care of my machines. It took using powder detergent and hot water primarily to find a solution to the problem of mold and scum building up in the machine and I just dont want to go through that all over again using a liquid detergent when the powders have done so well.
I am willing to accept that hot water alone would have done just as much good, as well as not using liquid softner, reducing the amount of detergent etc. I just dont have a reason to try another liquid I suppose is the main reason. Dont fix what isnt broke.
The use of STPP is highly recommended as well when avaliable and if you can afford it I recommend Persil. But I am sure there are a good number of other products that are very satisfactory. The primary thing that you can do for your machine is to use hot water washes, keep your machine aired out when not in use if it isnt adequately ventilated. Although I have had some precipitant buildup I still havent proven that use of citric based anything has an effect on that. I will let you all prove that out over time. I do however ask that folks capable of taking your machines inner drum out to inspect do that before claiming success.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 7:40AM
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sshrivastava

@ fordtech

A cup of citric acid crystals in your hottest wash cycle should be enough to de-calcify your machine and remove precipitates.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 11:51AM
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izeve

fordtech, I don't know if this is product is available here but in Europe (where hard water is very common) a lot of people use Calgon water softener to prevent limescale buildup in washing machines. It is a product specifically designed for washing machines.

Here is a link that might be useful: Calgon Water Softener

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 12:01PM
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fordtech

Thanks sshrivastava and izeve. Ill do some shopping around and see what I find and let you all know the results. I was going to do this months ago but being a Ford technician here in SW Oklahoma the temps have been over 100 degrees for the past 3 months and we are in a severe drought and I have been so beat down after working all day in the heat that I havent done a thing but rest when I get home. Cooling trends coming soon and Ill have more time for experimenting and testing.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 1:39PM
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Cavimum

@izeve - the liquid Calgon water softener is available even in my area. I used it often in our old TL, I won't use it on my FL, though, becuase the label or web site (can't remember which) said it has not been tested on FLs. The powder is available online.

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 3:34PM
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