Calling All Miele W4800 Users Input Wanted

mieleformeOctober 31, 2010

I got a wild hair to write Miele about what I'd like them to improve on with the W4800 & T9800 line up. It might fall on deaf ears but I'm doing it anyway. I'm looking for other suggestion to add to this so let's hear them. I'd also like to know what you agree or disagree with on the things I have listed. Thanks for the feedback I look forward to hearing it all. This is the letter as of today:

To whom it may concern,

I have comprised suggestions for improved features I think would be beneficial to Miele Washers and Dryers. I currently own a W4842 and T9822. My suggestions are based on my experience with these machines only. While these are the best machines I've ever owned, I still see room for improvement. In the spirit of "Immer Besser", I hope the customer feedback I'm offering is valued. I would also ask this be forwarded to the appropriate Miele associates for proper consideration and review.

Washer Suggestions:

1) Heavy Soil/Prewash

The Heavy soil option needs to be called what it is, Prewash. That's simple, everyone understands what it is and when it is to be used.

2) MasterCare

programs I would like to see added:

Pillows, Darks, Brights,

3) Program Complete

The end of program reminder alerts way too frequently after a load is complete. This needs to be drastically reduced (every 15 or 30 min max) or made user adjustable. I would like to be notified when the program is complete but being reminded every 90 seconds is a bit much.

4) Unravel Laundry After Spin

As in other Miele washers, when the program is complete, the drum should tumble a few times, back and forth, to unravel the clothing from the wall of the drum. Despite the claim of clothing not sticking to the honeycomb drum, I find this is often not the case. I also think it should continue to do this until the load is removed to prevent wrinkles much in the way the dryer does. This should exist in ever Miele washer.

5) Comforters Need More Water

Wash water level is inadequate using the "Comforters" MasterCare program despite the venting process. Wash water level should be equal to that of high rinse water levels. Personally I think this should be one of very few programs that go heavy on water to ensure thorough saturation and proper cleaning of these larger articles.

6) Push Back Flap Can Cause Damage

The pushback flap that is part of the drum boot (top) can actually cause damage to clothing. While it is my understanding this is intended to force items back into the drum, keeping them away from the door area in efforts to protect items, it might actually be causing more damage. In the event a user overloads the machine, laundry can be rubbed violently against the rubber device during spin resulting in torn clothing and rubber shavings everywhere. True this could be dismissed as misuse of the washer, but it could also be prevented. If the push back flap could be designed with an internal accelerometer it could detect...

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larsi_gw

I AGREE with you on MANY things.

My biggest peeve, is the Heavy Soil labeling. Miele, on past US models, called it Pre Wash...as that's what it is! A Pre Wash. Like the REST of the world, please call it Pre Wash on US models. So annoying!

At the end of a cycle, it would be a GREAT feature to have the load tumbled a bit, to unravel & unstick clothes. Good idea!!

I don't think it's just Comforters that need more water during the wash cycle (although Comforters do need more water). I think most cycles need more water during the wash cycle. Miele needs to add a Water+ feature for washes, like they offer Water+ for Rinse levels. If owners choose to keep a crazy, low water level for wash cycles, they can. If they choose to use a proper & higher water level for wash cycles, they could simply add Water+ for wash cycle and Water+ for Rinses. Make it easier!!

Since the manual says Liquid Detergent must be used for the Express and Comforters Cycle, the display screen on the machine should say so! I know, I know...we should all read the manual cover to cover, but a lot of us do not.

The dryer, IMO, does not need too much improving, but a display screen would be nice...but it's mainly cosmetic.

BUT...more timed dry options is MANDATORY! I cannot count how many times I've wanted a 5, 10 or 15 min dry cycle. Only offering 45 mins is insane!

Like ALL other high end dryers, letting us choose Low, Med, High and Hot for the dry temps would be really great!

Overall, my W4842 and T9802 units are AMAZING, but these simple changes could make a great product, near perfect!!

Thanks. Let us know if Miele intends to keep their products Immer Besser.

Wenn mann Immer Besser sagt, muss mann Immer Besser meinen!!! Miele....Sie koennen die Maschinen fast perfeckt machen!!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 11:19AM
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sshrivastava

Here's my list:

  • Larger, more animated display giving us more information on the load type, advice, etc.
  • Include a database of detergents, which can be updated frequently via Remote Vision, and recommend a dose according to load weight and the type of detergent programmed for that cycle.
  • Include a water softener like they do in Miele dishwashers that will provide the machine with the ideal ratio of soft and hard water
  • Profile Wash option would be appreciated.
  • Why not build all Miele W48XX machines as 240v and include an adapter for 110v? If the machine detects 110v, it will switch into a low power heater mode and offer reduced temperature options. If utilizing 240v, it will offer higher temperature settings and possibly a profile wash.
  • Add a turbidity sensor like in Miele dishwashers in order to determine if additional rinses are needed.

These are all technological issues that Miele can address. I believe the above options will put Miele ahead of the pack and will provide useful technology without overcomplicating the process for the consumer.

The other item I wish to mention is that Miele dishwashers are leaps and bounds ahead of their washing machines in terms of technology. There are some good technologies on the dishwasher side that can benefit their washing machines.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 11:47AM
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cryptandrus

I have a Miele W3033, which has programs very similar to the larger W48XX machines...

and my understanding is that "Sanitize" is a profile wash.

On my machine if you choose "Sanitize" you get a cool prewash that drains and spins and then a main wash that starts off warm, heats up to 158 F, and washes for an extended period of time.

It's a great setting... I use it all the time for whites, dishtowels etc.

Don't the W48XX machines have the same cycle?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 2:56PM
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asolo

"....profile wash...."

Interesting about this. Just a few years ago when Miele offered only 220v machines, the "profile wash" capability was one of their bigger selling points. Since the larger 110v machines have come out, I'm not hearing anything about it anymore.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 5:22PM
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livebetter

These comments are scaring me ... I am in the final stages of deciding on my new washer/dryer pair.

Some of these things that are missing on the W48XX I have on my current 9 year old Frigidaire FL. I like some of these features and am not sure I'd be happy to live without them.

Add to that, MieleâÂÂs washer/dryer set up (backwards to my drain left/dryer vent right).

Ugh ...

    Bookmark   October 31, 2010 at 10:29PM
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whirlpool_trainee

No need to worry, livebetter. We're not talking about substantial changes here - more about perfectioning an already very good product.

Some of the suggestions on here are very good, although I don't think the accelerometer will ever make it. 240V probably neither, as Miele already tried that and see where it got them today - 110V washers only.

From an European standpoint, I can tell you what's already been realized over here.

- Heavy Soil: as you said, everyone calls it Pre Wash. Why not Miele US? K.I.S.S. principle, maybe?
- MasterCare: oy, Miele offers an abundance of extra cycles here. But too many cycles can be confusing. How do you wash a dark denim shirt? Dark Garments, Denim or Shirts cycle? Aha!
- Fluffing: what? I'm surprised Miele does not have this in the US! We even have Steam Care to steam our wrinkles after the spin cycle.
- Comforters water level: I think I'll agree. American FLs tend to be super-stingy in general. Much more than Euro washers.
- More water overall: the water-police is out to get'cha! ;-)
- Larger, animated screen: I don't think this would be Miele-ish. Korean products excel at gadgets, animations and jingles.. but where's the quality and commitment to perfect laundry care with LG and Samsung?
- Turbidity sensor: many manufacturers offer these but Miele was never one of them. Too bad.
- Water softener: I've never seen that on a washing machine.
- Detergent (amount) recommendation: better Miele washer have done this for years. Never models even put powder or liquid in automatically; according to the cycle, soil level and load weight. Would be very useful for many under-loading, over-dosing Americans.

- Display on the dryer: Yes. Can not understand why it's missing on the US machines!
- Timed drying: Yes, via the display...
- Lint filter: Euro Miele dryers all have two lint filters: in the door and the door frame. This is not possible with a glass door, though. A compromise made for the American consumer.
- Washer/Dryer communication: nope, but you can remote control Miele appliances via a touch screen monitor or your iPhone. It's called Miele @ Home.
- Temp selection: that's a Euro thing. Our dryers never offered a High to Low range. It's selected via the cycle. Bosch Vision dryers are just the same - no Hi, Med, Med-Hi, Lo choices.

Finally, here's something for you to dream about. The Miele Supertronic Series. The washer has the same control as the LaPerla dishwasher, automatically adds detergents, has ten customizable favorite cycles, generates steam and injects it into and around the drum to release wrinkles...

More details: the British Supertronic. It is missing some of the German Supertronic's options, though - like larger capacity and steam.

The first three videos and the Steam Care cycle.

Alex

    Bookmark   November 1, 2010 at 3:24PM
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livebetter

Thanks Alex. Great machine - too bad we're so far behind here :(

Here's a question for you Miele owners/fans ... would you have any thoughts as to whether the Bosch Vision 800 is a good option (instead of Miele). I'm trying to work with my existing venting (drain left/dryer vent right). I'm willing to have the Miele doors open into each other if there are no other excellent options available.

This posting has me micro inspecting the features of both and the Bosch does seem to have some that are a little better than Miele (although I'm sure Miele has a few up on Bosch too).

For example:
Bosch Vision is 4.4 cf (compared to Miele 4.0 cf) - Bosh dryer is slighly larger too and has 3 way venting unlike Miele.

Bosch Vision max temp is 180 F (compared to Miele 158 F) - Bosch Xxtra Sanitary Cycle heats water to 170 F (NSF Certified kills 99.9% of most common household bacteria) - Miele doesn't say anything about being NSF certified.

Bosch max spin is 1200 RPM as compared to Miele W4840 1300 RPM. Would 100 RPM make a difference? According to the Bosch manual many loads do not use full RPM anyway (looks like only 4 do)?

Bosch has a comforter setting - says more water is used and less spin speed to avoid stretching. Not sure if "more" is enough?

A few more Bosch features (not on Miele that I can see):
â¢AVS Anti-Vibration System for near silent, smooth operation
â¢Virtually silent: 52 dBA
â¢AquaStopî leak protection system prevents major water damage

I am checking with Bosch as to the rinse temperature. I'm sure I read someone say it was warm - makes no sense to me. I would think it would be cold.

I am also checking on the dryer having any reverse tumble - although I'm guessing "no".

Also checking if the Bosch gently tumbles clothes (fluffs) after the final spin. My current 9 year old machine does that and I can't imagine not having that.

The Bosch dryer has an anti crease function that will tumble clothes intermittently for 3 hours if not removed. Miele will do this for 1 hour. Not sure 3 is necessary but ...

The Bosch dryer also has "DynamicAirâ¢" - gently dries clothes using moderate heat and high air volume in a one piece stainless steel drum. It appears to have many more openings for air than the Miele - not sure if this is an advantage or not.

The Bosch dryer also has a spin speed optimized drying time that coordinates the remaining time displayed for the dryer to the spin speed at which the laundry was previously spun in the washing machine.

This is it ... IâÂÂm going to decide in the next week. Thanks all for your help!

    Bookmark   November 1, 2010 at 5:28PM
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sshrivastava

@cryptandrus: What if I want a profile wash with a maximum temperature of 120ðF? Not possible using Sanitize - you can't select a temperature that low.

@whirlpool_trainee: You said "Larger, animated screen: I don't think this would be Miele-ish". There is no reason why you can't have a commitment to quality AND utilize some nice technology. The two are not mutually exclusive. Also, the fact that we've never seen a water softener in a washing machine doesn't mean it isn't a good idea. Miele uses the technology to great effect in their dishwashers, and washers can benefit as well.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2010 at 10:03PM
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livebetter

I know for me it would be a HUGE improvement if Miele offered a reversible door and more venting options. They seem to have more venting options on their compact units - I don't know why not on the W48XX series.

I would think this change would allow more people to purchase the machines as it adds flexibility.

I wouldn't even question buying them if they would fit properly in my laundry.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2010 at 10:27AM
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whirlpool_trainee

@ sshrivastava: Regarding the animated display: I'm not saying it can't be done but I think it won't be done. Miele does not even sell washers in any other color other than white (besides that one Chocolate Edition in Canada). Even their fanciest products have the same orange display. The only item, it seems, where Miele does allow several different colors are their vacuum cleaners. Their newest S6 line even comes wrapped in velvet.

It's not only Miele that uses water softeners in dishwashers. Every single dishwasher manufacturer in Europe uses them. Again, not saying it can't be done or that it wouldn't be a good/interesting idea - I'm just saying that I don't see it happening any time soon.

@ livebetter: Bosch makes some good appliances and very efficient ones, too. Even in green Europe, they are continuously bringing out appliances that are a little more efficient than all the others.

Technically, the fill and drain hoses on the Miele washer are no problem as they should really be long enough to reach behind the dryer. The dryer, however, can be a problem because you will obviously have to add extra venting to connect the dryer's vent to the opening in the wall. This should add two more elbows, which can be problematic if there is already a long vent run to the outside.

The Bosch washer is .24 cu.ft. larger, which means roughly one lbs. more capacity.

Bosch calls it AquaStop - Miele Waterproof. Same technology.

Unfortunately, there are very few videos of the Vision online. This one shows Miele's venting process on the Comforters cycle. How much more or less water the Bosch uses - I don't know.

Regarding the max temperature: well, my washer can go up to 203F and I never use it. 140F is the highest temp I use, so 158 would be hot enough for me. Both washers will heat the water whenever needed - except for Miele's "Normal" cycle, I think.

Both washers have cold-only rinses.

The Bosch dryer does not reverse tumble.

100 rpm won't make much of a difference. "Spin Speed Optimized Drying Time" just gives you a better initial estimation of the time left to dry the load and that "DynamicAir" technology... Miele also has a very powerful blower but it's just not given a special name.

Miele probalby makes the better washer/dryer but those doors and the venting...

HTH, Alex

    Bookmark   November 3, 2010 at 12:51PM
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livebetter

Gosh Alex ... thank you for your detailed reply. Much appreciated.

I guess I'm hoping someone will "quantify" for me the difference (maybe asking too much).

If Miele is a "10" would Bosch be a 9.5 or more like a 7? I could probably be happy with a 9.5 but I'll live with the doors opening to each other if nothing comes close.

I know at one time @Larsi was very happy with his Electrolux. I wonder what rating he would give that compared to Miele's "10"?

I'm really picky about my laundry and I don't want to be disappointed.

Darn Miele and their inflexible set up :)

    Bookmark   November 3, 2010 at 3:07PM
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larsi_gw

livebetter...After now having my Miele W4842 and T9802 back (after trying the Electrolux for about a month)...I would NOT have any other brand. Over the past almost 20 years, I had a Samsung set and an Electrolux washer and dryer set for maybe a total of 4 months...I was SO unhappy not having my Mieles! I would rate my Miele washer and dryer a 9.5 or maybe even a 10. I would give the Electrolux about a 5. The Electrolux build quality, cleanliness of clothes, materials used, push to open doors, plastic windows (Miele uses glass)...just feel so inferior to the Miele. Yes, Miele's display does not play catchy tunes, or show animated dancing bubbles, or have theater lighting in the drums...but SERIOUSLY, do we even need or want this in our laundry units? Besdies from the washer and dryer...we also have the Miele 30" wall oven, Miele Speed Oven, Miele La Perla dishwasher, Miele 36" vent hood and 2 Miele vacuum cleaners. Besides from the best build quality in the world, Miele does their own servicing....white glove treatment. Just get the damned Miele units, you will be so happy!!!! ;)

    Bookmark   November 3, 2010 at 5:55PM
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livebetter

larsi, I was already thinking that ... LOL ... I was just telling my husband I should just live with the doors opening to each other. How bad can it be??

Although, you know not long after I take delivery, Miele will announce a new version for 2011 with all the features I need. I emailed them and asked about the backward set up and asked if there was anything coming that might alleviate the problem - non committal on their part.

I like to remove my things and shake them out before I put in the dryer so I'll just empty into a laundry basket and shake them from there while I put into the dryer.

I'll be getting the pedestals so I can keep the basket on the open drawer. I'm sure it will be a minor inconvenience for superior operation.

I'm not about the bells and whistles ... I'm all about the best possible clean (clean, soft clothes).

The Bosch sounded like it could be a really close second but ... I'm unsure .... so I will probably commit to the Mieles.

I purchased a Miele S7 a few months ago (even though I have a Beam central vac) and I really like it. It is a wonderfully built machine. IâÂÂve seen the MieleâÂÂs and nothing does compare to their build quality. If they clean as well as you all say ⦠well ⦠how can I go wrong.

Thanks so much - IâÂÂll keep you posted on what I end up with and how I like it.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2010 at 7:31PM
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sshrivastava

Oh Larsi please don't make me do this... but you give me no choice...

In this thread Larsi said: "The Electrolux build quality, cleanliness of clothes, materials used, push to open doors, plastic windows (Miele uses glass)...just feel so inferior to the Miele."But in another thread Larsi said:"The cycles that are offered on my Wave Touch are great... EVERYTHING is fresher, softer and cleaner than in the Miele. Surprised actually."Well Larsi, which is it? I think you may have the perfect qualifications to run for political office! :)

    Bookmark   November 3, 2010 at 11:00PM
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larsi_gw

@sstava....When I posted how great I thought the Electrolux units were, I had just got them, and was honestly so excited to have all these new bells and whistles, fancy lights, display graphics, etc..

I still think the Electrolux units are a lot better than most crap on the market today, but NOTHING compares to Miele. It's kind of like when I got my first Lexus Hybrid...I was on Cloud 9 for about a month, and then I missed the engineering perfection of my BMW. So yes, I was excited with my Electrolux when I first got them, but it was a pure novelty. I posted when I got rid of them & went back to Miele...and I posted my reasons and feelings.

Wow...you really do like to stick it to people, huh? Being German (and used to dealing with stereotypes)...I can say that you eastern Europeans are a tough bunch, and quite "in your face"!!! ;)

    Bookmark   November 4, 2010 at 1:54AM
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sshrivastava

Larsi, no offense meant. I say contradictory things all the time. For instance, it wasn't that long ago that I proclaimed Persil a piece of crap and couldn't understand why everyone doesn't just use Tide instead. I'd say that is a total 180 from what I believe today. in fact, I'm running back-to-back Persil loads as I type this.

:)

    Bookmark   November 5, 2010 at 2:39AM
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westvillager

My 4840 has separate "Pre-Wash" and "Extended (Heavy Soil)" options. My decade-old Miele in the city has the Heavy Soil option that's really a pre-wash. Hmm, maybe I've misread :\

From a brand perspective what I like about Miele is it doesn't feel like a toy. More science than marketing. The original list mostly requests further cycle customization. That seems reasonable (and potentially differentiating) but graphics, trademarks and talking w/d sets seem gimmicky to me.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2010 at 9:01AM
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westvillager

Actually I have a 4842 not a 4840 if there's a difference.

    Bookmark   November 5, 2010 at 9:03AM
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larsi_gw

No offense sstava! Just a Kraut antagonizing a eastern bloc neighbor! Ha ha ha

For years I only used Tide he powder (before I got my first Miele). My first American frontloader was a Frigidaire (that my Aunt & Uncle still use today, amazingly!). Tide he powder worked fine in my old Frigidaire...but at that time I did not inspect the stainless wash drum for powdery residue, leave the door open for the machine to air out, neurotically clean the soap tray...and the Internet DID NOT exist (so no Garden Web). LOL

So, I know what you mean about the Tide/Persil debate! When (or if) I do not use German Ariel liquid detergent or my beloved and trusted Persil Color Gel...I think Tide he liquid does a great job!! Actually our Senior Miele Tech told me that him and his wife use Tide he liquid for almost all their laundry, and Persil Color Gel for special things....but said he thinks Tide he liquid is just as good (and Miele has tested Tide extensively, since it is the #1 used detergent for the US and Canadian market). I still think Persil works better at some stains and work out clothes...but a big draw for me is the smell of Persil. It is SO clean, fresh, German and old fashioned!!

    Bookmark   November 5, 2010 at 10:32AM
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