Miele W3033 vs W4842- Demo Models

buffalotinaOctober 25, 2012

Well based on developments this evening it looks like my Bosch WFR2460 is headed for the scrap heap. I will be replacing with a Miele. My local dealer does a lot of trades in Miele closeouts. I was gung ho on the Miele W3033 until I saw that the unit they have has a HEAVILY scratched metal door ring. Very ugly. Not worried so much about the look as what it might say about the history of that unit. Supposedly the demo units have never left the hands of Miele showrooms, but even so. Price is $1400. They also several of the W4842 units. I have always been solidly against the uber loader machines...but now I am wondering if perhaps since both 3033 and 4842 are 110V (I dearly loved my Bosch 240V but will not replace with Bosch...want better build this time) perhaps I should actually consider it. DH I am sure would rave about the larger machine and there are those times when I have to go to laundromat with comforter etc, having had only small Euro machine. Most of the time I run very small loads, doing a lot of sorting of clothes etc. But now that I am facing reality of new machine I wonder if I should snap up one of the 4842 models? Price on those demo models is $1300 and they have enough of them I could pick and choose and get a decent looking one.

What to do? Why did Miele discontinue the 4842? I know there were problems...but I can always get the extended warranty. How long will they have service parts available given it is discontinued? OTOH, for $1300 perhaps I should not worry.

I have always been dead set on the small Euro machines, primarily because of the 240 V etc. Now that I am facing the reality of the Miele 120 V I am wondering if perhaps I should relax a little and go for the bigger machine!

The reviews here of 4842 seem OK, apart from the plastic clip business which I presume would reveal itself pretty soon.

Thoughts are welcome! Thank you!

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If I had it to do over again, I would take a hard look at the 3033. With two people in this house, a 'full load' for us fills our 4842 only 60% of the way up. There are times I appreciate being able to fill it up 80% of the way, but for the most part, the 3033 would be all we need.

I think I have read that the outer tub/drum(not the part we see inside) of the 3033 is made of metal (the 4842 is definitely plastic or fiberglass or something like that), but I am not 100% sure about that.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 4:56AM
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Yes, the outer tub on the larger ones is fiberglass - GlaronK.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 6:10AM
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Thanks Cavimum. Yes, my current Bosch is plenty for me except on special occasions. I occasionally go to the laundromat with a larger comforter or something. I think the Miele may hold slightly less than my Bosch and the door glass apparently pokes in quite a way. I might have to go see if I can see one somewhere where I can actually open the door. The closeouts are all on pallets with shipping stuff on them.

I will call Miele to see how long parts are supposed to be available for the W4842 machine. I read somewhere they will make them for 10 years and then after that it is on a what is available basis. I might regret that.....that would also steer me to the W3033. But I need to either get the price on this ugly unit down more or perhaps consider paying full whack - yikes!

Thanks you all!

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 8:58AM
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@buffalotina - the inner flat glass on the door of our W4842 seems fairly flush with the inner edge of the gasket. That glass is perfectly horizontal; it does not slope toward inside of drum from top to bottom. It bevels in toward the frame of the door, and occasionally a small sock or something lands on the gasket and stays there, but maybe once a year that happens.

Check the dimensions of what you have, as far as wall-to-front-of-door. My matching set use 36" of clearance because the dryer vent hose runs behind the washer, and that is with the doors completely closed, not cracked open. The 3033 dimensions might be smaller and physically fit your space better.

Miele doors are not reversible, so dryer on L and washer on R only. We have a small laundry room, so the 36" isn't a problem. These Mieles look like monsters on their pedestals. I nicknamed them "The Beasts".

If you put the washer on a pedestal, check finished height against height of any cabinets you might have over W/D. Before I purchased our Mieles, I had the upper cabinets raised, which involved changing soffits. Our purchased was 'planned parenthood' instead of an OMG-the-old-washer-died! purchase.

And by all means . . . let us know what you end up with! Those of us who are laundry obsessed focused will want to know.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 10:23AM
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Thanks!!! Unfortunately my dryer is already on the right...no way round it at this point. I am leaning towards W3033. Now I am wondering how inconvenient is it going to be to have the door swinging that way? Am I going to curse it forever?! But, I don't want Asko or Bosch....

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 11:05AM
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Here's my advice: buy the W3033, and Scotch tape a $100 bill over that scratch! Then do whatever you like with the remaining $600 you saved.

I have the W3033 and love it. I bought mine as a showroom sample, too, for $1500 a couple of years ago.

It came with the full warranty, so I was't too concerned about any damage it could have sustained while on display in the store. It's been a truly great machine, and I love it even more because I waited, and got it for a good price.

I can relate to your feelings about the scratch, and your reluctance to buy something brand new that is already "broken"... but I'd do it and try to link that scratch in your mind to the memory of the great deal you're getting. :D

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 3:59PM
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Thanks cryptandrus. I am now back in the W3033 camp. The big machines are just too big for me....I would be forever putting in a load that looks ridiculously small for the machine. And coupled with the fact they are now technically discontinued I am going to pass. The problem with the W3033 demo unit is that the WHOLE of the door ring is covered in heavy scratches - not just a single scratch that could happen easily. I cannot even imagine how it got that scratched up. Anyway, I checked the grading system for unboxed Miele goods put out by a place in Toronto that deals in out of box appliances. From their grading scheme this would be a "C goods" grade and as such their pricing seems to be ca. 50% off list. Therefore I think this machine is priced too high. If I had just seen it sat in a showroom it would be one thing, but it was never on display at my dealer - he just buys up the demo/ex display etc models. Unless I get the serial number there would be no hope of gettings its history...it could have been used, who knows. It could have been moved without shipping bolts or anything. I think if I got it I would always feel I should get the extended warranty just in case and that would bring the price up much closer to a new in box. So now I am actually leaning, GULP, to new in box...I will NOT get the extended warranty...will cross my fingers.

    Bookmark   October 25, 2012 at 11:23PM
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@cryptandrus: I woke up this morning much clearer. I am going to wait another week or so to make sure my current Bosch is definitely unusable - it keeps stopping mid cycle and control board is suspected. Then I am going to feel better about the Miele splurge. I wanted to ask you, what have you found you liked about the W3033? It sounds like you love it! Also, anything you don't like? Mine is going to be a pain with the door hinged on the side of my dryer, but, there is no way around that. My husband will complain but we will just have to adjust. Thank you so much!

    Bookmark   October 26, 2012 at 9:34AM
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From what I have seen, the 'demo' machines that are installed and operational in the showroom suffer a level of abuse all their own.

Imagine, a flow of untrained users come through and push the buttons. The machine is started and stopped repeatedly. Customers are offered the opportunity to bring dirty laundry in and run it through a cycle.

You might want to ask the dealer how many hours of operation the machine has seen before you make your decision.


    Bookmark   October 26, 2012 at 10:23AM
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MRB: Thank you so much for your insight. I was actually following a thread on discuss-o-mat/automaticwasher that I believe you had contributed too. Very interesting info there on the W3033. Thank you!

So, I am definite I want the W3033. Apart from the demo unit I have seen my dealer says he has another demo unit coming in in a couple of weeks so I can view that one too. There will be no unit history available from this dealer: these units were not his, he simply buys up demo units direct from Miele. Or so he says...perhaps they also come from Miele dealers I don't know. I don't believe the Miele showrooms themselves could have so many demo units, they must surely come from other dealers, returns, etc etc. In any case, I spoke to Miele and I can give them the serial numbers and they will know how long it has been since the unit first left their warehouse, if it was ever registered, etc. Apparently their extended warranty can be purchased ONLY for units that shipped no more than 2 years ago from their warehouse. That was not told by my dealer so I need to make double sure of the history of the units under consideration.

I will wait a couple of weeks so that both demo units can be compared and their history checked. Unless the one coming in looks a lot better then I am leaning to new in box.. And yes, you are right, who knows what kind of loads were run in these demos. Possibly they were never used but one at my dealer (in SS which I do not want) has soap residue in the detergent drawer so I know that was used for sure.

I did get my Miele DW from this dealer several years back and that was almost like new in box.. I could not tell the difference. I actually did not look at that before purchase because back then I did not know that the reason his prices are so good is that they are demo/unboxed units. Now I know the situation I want to know just what I am getting and whether it is worth the savings. If I get a demo then I also want to be sure I can get the extended warranty because I may need it!

Again thank you for your insight. I will post the developments and eventually report back on my successful purchase (I hope!)

    Bookmark   October 26, 2012 at 3:09PM
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MRB: Do you have the W3033? Do you like it? Thanks! Tina

    Bookmark   October 26, 2012 at 11:41PM
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Yeah. I purchased a w3033 set back in July. They are nice machines, but they don't live up to the hype that people blog on here about them. I still haven't decided whether I will keep them or look for something better suited to my needs. If you are purchasing from a point where you have had machines of similar capacity, then you won't have to adjust to that aspect of using them.

While I love my Miele dishwasher, these laundry doesn't seem quite as refined as I expected.


    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 6:31AM
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Seeing is believing. Here's a good YouTube channel about the W3033.


Here is a link that might be useful: YT User MieleTouchtronic

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 10:10AM
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MRB: Many thanks for that feedback. Is the mainly the size or the performance that you have issues with? I have had small Bosch FL for 9 years and actually like the size since I like to do lots of smaller loads. Yes, for the money you expect the moon from these machines....and yes, I LOVE my Miele DW, no comparison between that and my earlier Kitchen Aid. What's driving me is that there are so few options in the smaller FL market. The Bosch has done a good job but the newer one is not built as nice and I have ruled out the Askos for various reasons. Pretty much leaves me with only this machine as an option and I figure at least the build quality should be good....or one would hope so.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 10:15AM
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I don't know about cost, but if I were considering a W3033 I would also look at comparably sized Askos. I had one for about 5-6 years. The build quality exceeds Bosch by a handy margin, offers 220v and can heat the water to over 200C. Also, the models are not discontinued. Again, I don't know about how the costs would compare, but in terms of features, Asko has it all over the Miele.

    Bookmark   October 27, 2012 at 11:47AM
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Thank you everyone for the input and the links!

I wish they had a proper review of the Miele on that washerdryerinfo. The lower model Asko 6424 machine does not have an induction motor like their higher models do. Since the brushes wore out on my current Bosch after only 6 years (perhaps that is normal, I do a lot of loads) I definitely don't want a motor with brushes again. Especially when there are machines available now with brushless motors (I believe the current Bosch has induction motor now). Also very little in the way of a display/readout on the Asko lower model.

@sshrivastava: Yes, I take your point about the 220V and Asko. I currently have the 220V Bosch. Asko swears blind that you absolutely have to plug their machine into their dryer and that the required receptacle is not available here. But I just noted that my Bosch said the same thing and yet we found one. The Asko looks to me like it might require a NEMA 6-20R, but I am not an electrician.

I saw Asko and was actually very underwhelmed: expected to like it a lot more. There are several reasons for me ruling out Asko: Only the higher model 6884ECO has a brushless motor and this has a second outside door that apparently MUST be closed in order for the machine to work. I saw one in a store and that door would drive me crazy. I also was not very impressed with the swing-out detergent "drawer" they have - seemed flimsy and was not aligned very well. I also do not like the black seal they have on the door instead of a normal boot. Seems to me the boots have stood the test of time design wise and that seal looked like it could easily wear. Read somewhere here too that it made a black mark on some laundry. Did not notice the door hinge but another store mentioned it is a piano style hinge and not well designed. But, bottom line is, I was just not impressed with the OUTSIDE design and build quality. But, they would be great if you wanted them in a kitchen or show laundry room as they would blend in very nicely. The 6884ECO retails for around the price of the Miele W3033 anyway so no great incentive there. Interestingly I note that Asko is now pushing having the washer hooked up to BOTH hot and cold....their W6884ECO is the current better model and that they want you to hook to both supplies. Not sure how you could then get the profile wash that is the benefit of the 220V heater.

Bosch and Asko BOTH have PLASTIC fins on the inside of the washtub. My current Bosch has stainless that appear to be molded from one piece of steel so that there is no seam. I think the Miele is like that too, but at least they are stainless. No way do I want to go to plastic fins in the tub.

So pretty much all my criteria bring me back to Miele as the only option I guess...

I am continuing to forge on with my current machine until it absolutely will not go. Most washes complete. I cannot run the stand alone spin and drain programs, but don't often use those in any case. I can also force it to drain using the service mode, now I know how to do that. I do need to open the door mid wash sometime to make sure the heater is still working. Once thefrequency of aborted wash cycles increases I shall probably order the Miele.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 8:09AM
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What like about the W3033:

It's super-quiet (must be the brushless induction motor?)

While thw W3033 doesn't do a true profile wash, it does have a cold water prewash option. That followed by a 140 F or 158 F wash cycle does a great job for me. I use that cycle all the time for kitchen linens. With Tide or Persil prewash and ECOVER powdered bleach in the hot main wash, it removes pretty much any kind of food spot or stain from cotton or linen.

I sort by fabric content, and tend to do a lot of small loads, so the drum size has never been a problem for us.

We have a lot of wool clothing and I love the wool cycle. I've used it for everything: merino wool bicycle jerseys, SmartWool socks, fine sweaters, wool blankets and a mohair throw. Nothing has ever come out pilled, stretched, or shrunken. The drum moves in a way very much like hand washing.

It has never had a problem spinning, or balancing.

I like that it uses my (gas heated) hot water and has the option to use the internal electric heater to heat the water further, throughout the cycle, or not at all. (Electricity is more $$ in my area than natural gas.)

I like that the water temp choices are in logical equal increments. I like that you can choose "tap" cold or 68 F cold. I like the sanitize feature.

I leave the door open when not in use and have never had any signs of mold or any smells.

The detergent drawer is sturdy and easy to remove if it ever needs cleaning.

You can use liquid chlorine bleach if you choose to in this machine.

The pin trap is on the front of the machine and easy to access and clean.

You can easily access programming info that allows you to raise the rinse level in "normal" cycles.

It just does a great job cleaning, and doesn't seem to be rough on textiles. A great combination.

That's all I can think of at the moment. Let us know what you end up with and how you like it! Thanks

    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 10:20AM
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Many thanks cryptandrus for your real life feedback. Pretty much the Miele is the only one that is going to check most of my boxes....I feel it is in my near future. I am not rushing because my current Bosch is basically running most cycles. But figure if I am going to replace might as well do it sooner than later and start the Miele experience - it should almost see me out laundry machine wise!

Can you tell me more about the Ecover powdered bleach? I presume it is an oxygen bleach. Where do you get it? Is it better than oxyclean bleach? I have never, and will never, used regular bleach in my laundry. That stuff will literally eat your fabrics.....and it gives a yellow white rather than the real white you can get from a hot wash. But would like to try your formula using the Ecover. I am addicted to Persil...would never wash in anything else now! Well that is except Perwoll and the Perwoll for blacks/dark....

    Bookmark   October 29, 2012 at 10:10PM
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I buy the Ecover powdered bleach from my local food co-op. It can be really hard to find... I don't know why.

I have some bad news-- just now I Googled this and it looks like Ecover is now adding washing soda to this product. It used to be 100% oxygen bleach. This makes me mad... I feel like they're cheapening it with washing soda filler now.

I guess the good news for you is Ecover is basically the same as OxyClean, so no need to go searching for it.

Hope this helps.

Let us know when you do decide to get that new machine!

    Bookmark   October 30, 2012 at 9:05AM
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@cryptandrus - Ack! I hate when fillers are added and formulas changed. My box of Ecover, bought last year, says "INGREDIENTS - Consists of 100% percarbonate....". I need to be very careful to make it last. Such a shame that they've added washing soda to the formula. I agree, just buy OxyClean and save the $$ for shipping.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2012 at 10:33AM
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There's always chemistrystore.com for pure sodium percarbonate.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2012 at 12:19PM
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So my Bosch WFR2460 washser just stopped mid load again..full of water, lights and display flashing. I had to enter the service mode, which I now know so well, to use the drain pump test program to empty it....Then began a new quick wash cold cycle to to simulate a rinse and spin to get the laundry out. That failed...service mode again to drain. Now on a quick cotton wash to see if I can get that to complete.

I think I am going to call my dealer tomorrow and order the W3033, new in box, gulp, over the phone. Looks like this Bosch is going under real fast....I was almost just testing it thinking I was pulling the plug on it prematurely...but now I don't think so.

Ironically a friend of mine who I was venting to about it then just had her 3 year old Bosch Nexxt 500 drum stop turning or spinning...I got the service manual and we ran the diagnostics and it looks like her motor control board is dead. That was a $1000 machine 3 years ago! I am just not going to put over $500 into a new board for my Bosch...Need to cut my losses on move on...hopefully to a higher place with Miele.

I figured out I bought my Bosch 9 years ago for ca. $1200. Have done ca $600 in repairs. That is $1800 for 9 years.....I am sure if I had bought the Miele back then it would still be running fine...AND it would have been one of the good ole 240V machines!!!!

Stay tuned!

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 1:06AM
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Update: I ordered the W3033 yesterday! Horrible expense but I have to face fact Bosch is not going to recover without major expense. I hope to have it installed by the end of next week! Plenty of time to play with it over the Thanksgiving holiday and I have no doubt I will be posting and asking questions about the various cycles. Thanks to all for the advice and input.

    Bookmark   November 8, 2012 at 10:55PM
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I have a W4842 and am not satisfied. My first Miele washer was a little too small for our family and when the control panel failed after 12 years I decided to by the larger set. The detergent drawer is frequently filled with water and detergent and have had service 3 times in less than a year. I am waiting again for repairman because the light does not always come on. After waiting 3 weeks for service my appt. was rescheduled because of storm which I understand however it is another 3 weeks of waiting. Happy w/dishwasher but this appliance is not up to Miele standards.

    Bookmark   November 13, 2012 at 11:33AM
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doggymom: Very sorry to hear that, especially as it seems people here have been relatively happy with the W4842 although not the earlier incarnations of that machine. I am hoping my new one will not have issues otherwise I shall feel very hard done by. I can understand your disappointment. Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

    Bookmark   November 14, 2012 at 10:21AM
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