Do I really need windows in a kitchen addition?

Fori is not pleasedJanuary 31, 2013

So, I'm examining the feasibility of adding on to the house and sticking the kitchen in the addition. This would require removing a few old features of the house that I love. To justify that to myself, I'll have to add on to my insufficient garage because of all the things that could make this house perfect for me, a larger garage is the only thing this house lacks (the rest is cosmetic).

Sooooo, extending the garage means that a kitchen addition will have no windows on 3 walls, as well as being really skinny on one end. Sweet! The new kitchen space would be V shaped between the garage and house. (What would normally be a straight house is bent at the garage due to being on a cul de sac.) I'll have 28' of garage on one side, 22' of house on the other. These are connected at one end by a section 8 feet wide and widen at a 65 degree angle. The distance between the corners of the house and proposed garage is about 17' but can bleb out more (with windows).

Basically an odd shaped dark galley with a nice sunny eating area at the end? We can do skylights and stuff...

This sketch represents the angle as greater than it is (we will not hire this architect since he was incapable of doing simple math, but the general layout is handy). K is where the new kitchen would be. I know the space can work but...that's a long way with no windows. We could certainly do a large opening into the old house which is crayon meltingly bright.

Totally ridiculous? Do I have to lose my garage addition? I can do skylights!

Thanks. F

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Which direction is south?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 5:39PM
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how does extending the garage help-you can't park cars end to end in the garage. If you need storage,there are amazing sheds and "structures" you can build back on your lot. Maybe give a few more feet to the garage and the pie shaped area along with some new space running across the back of the garage can be a "living space". then expand the kitchen in the middle of the home from it's current location-either going back or bumping out at the front.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 5:59PM
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Fori is not pleased

The window wall (if I go directly corner-to-coner) would be facing due south.

I can park cars end to end. It's not ideal of course but you take what you can get in the city. The garage is large for a 2 car garage--if I'm not trying to put more cars in it, it's plenty big. But the wrapping around the rear idea...if I only expand the outside half of the garage and use the other half for windows...and kick the spouse out onto the driveway...hmm.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 6:22PM
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    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 9:30PM
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I think that space will create a kitchen that is not worth building. Doors opening into doors, bad flow, spaces that are too close and too far apart.

I think it will also look like your house got sideswiped by a commercial garage that careened off the road when it couldn't take the curve.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 10:53PM
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I JUST moved from a house that had a triangular kitchen...and bathroom. AWFUL!! DH could not figure out why, 9 years ago, I did not want to put energy into remodeling that house.....not to mention money!

Really, I discourage it......


    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:06PM
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Can't you build back from the center of your "U" instead?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:09PM
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Have you considered making the current kitchen your formal dining room or maybe a study? Then have one living area with fireplace as your kitchen with informal eating area and the other your living room. I would add a large mudroom or covered porch, where you have the proposed kitchen and I would add skylights.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2013 at 11:53PM
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Fori is not pleased

Thanks for the input. I should go back and edit--the distance between house and proposed garage corners is about 31 ft, not 17. Good thing I'm not an architect.

The doorways into doorways business would hopefully be addressed.

The garage would not stick out as much as you'd think--it would be finished like the rest of the house and by local ordinance could not be tall--from every angle except the narrow sideyard it would be indistinguishable from house. And the front would look garagey, I guess, but no more than it already does. It's a common thing in this subdivision. The houses are close side-by-side and low so any additions are on the rear and just aren't visible.

Working from the U would be complicated. I realize that an addition where I'm proposing would call for some weird rooflines, but the existing roof over the U (it's a covered patio) drops fairly low so the roof would have to go. Also there is a bedroom whose only window opens into that U. The rest of the U is a fabulous (by midcentury standards) picture window into the nice part of the yard. I know, I should replace it anyway--it's not double paned. But I actually like many of the original features of this home and would rather not gut it.

This is oriented the wrong way, but might help. North is up. (The front yard re-landscaping/concreting is scheduled so don't make fun of the blue driveway.) We would prefer to destroy the yard on the garage side of the house.

Cottage, I think the current kitchen would work as a study. And it would work as a kitchen... :) I haven't ruled that out yet--have a pretty workable layout for it too. The traffic flow for sticking a kitchen in back is off, no matter what shape the kitchen becomes.

Hmm. No, that roof is no longer sparkly golden. That only lasted a month. Glad Google caught it new!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 12:04AM
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In general, if you do an addition, you want to think about extending the lines that are already there, not adding a new angle. So you could add to the rear of the garage along the side plot line and make that the kitchen--then your little triangle would be very small and used for something else.

I think we need you to modify that plan a bit so it reflects the actual angle of the house. Just print out a copy and do some cutting or folding and taping.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 12:23AM
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the answer with this home is probably to go vertical. When you look at the overall footprint and realize the bedroom side is as large as the "living" side,including kitchen/dining family and living room, therein is the issue. Going vertical for a mastersuite or 2 of the bedrooms would give you all the space you'd need on the main floor for your kitchen and to arrange it comfortably/stylishly. Somehow I don't think you'll get involved in that type of construction. You have things you can do but each has plus/minus. Focus more on kitchen where it is,the nook and the passage from garage into the home. perhaps use half that trangular space you were thinking of moving kitchen to-smaller construction project there-see what juggling with that bit of triangle added in can do for that whole front of the home.As in-change garage passage into home to the new pie shaped zone,expand nook into a better eating area joined with somewhat larger kitchen.That whole section-dining room/nook/existing passage from garage and any new triangle shaped construction between garage and family room probably provides some opportunity-with new kitchen basically in its current location. Still,lots of benefit to a vertical addition-is that out of the question?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 12:41AM
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We went vertical. Extending the kitchen and added a master bedroom and bath above. The less foundation needed means cost savings.

I collected house plan books for many years. I remember 70's house plans that had a pie shaped area between the garage and the main house. The kitchen was in the small area at front and the wide end was eating area. If I can find one I will post it.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 7:32AM
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Fori is not pleased

Thanks all. I can't go vertical on this. (Local ordinance and I totally agree with it--these homes are too close together.)

If this doesn't work out, the current kitchen/nook is really not bad, totally workable. I guess we just wanted a nicer view from the kitchen table than the driveway.

Part of the existing opening is obscured by a porch roof (which is why it doesn't show up well in the sat shot). Here's an older shot which shows the rooflines better. Ignore the structure that is in the hole. It's gone. So the rear roof already has some quirky angles to accommodate bending a straight house. Basically they cut it at the garage and filled in the gap with a little odd-shaped room. This odd-shaped section is actually really well thought out with cabinets, a powder room, a coat closet, and a let's-call-it-a-pantry cabinet.

This photo is from when the POs lived here--I think it explains somehat why there is so much concrete that needs to be torn out of the front yard...

I will get started on drawing up an actual plan with things in their proper spots...thanks!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 1:37PM
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I believe your drawing shows the kitchen in the back. Or have you decided against moving the kitchen?

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 2:13PM
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Fori is not pleased

The kitchen is currently in the front. Assessor's sketch with some lines filled in:

This guy did better but still the room between isn't right. It's tricky since the back corner of the garage is walled off from the main garage with its own entrance and the whole mess is covered with an offset greenhouse merged into the porch roof. And when this guy had to work, there was a home made addition in the spot that really obscured things.

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 3:08PM
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