York 5 ton

DennisGardenDecember 15, 2012

The condenser died on my old outdoor york 5 ton (split system with heat pump and separate blower in the attic). They want $3500 to replace with York GHGD60S21s1 R22 including recharging with R22. I'd like to know if this sounds like an acceptable plan. Thanks.

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hamconsulting

Replacing the old condenser with a new one is probably the cheapest way to solve your problem in the short term.

I saw the York TX-GHGD60 R22 condenser (lowest possible SEER 13 rating) online for about $1900. If they are just replacing the outside unit, the price sounds high to me...but I'm just a homeowner.

Just keep in mind that R22 is being phased out and its price is increasing every year. R-410A is the new refrigerant in use by most new outside condensers.

Just keep in mind that your evaporator coils might be old and could spring a leak in the near future. Mine were 24 years old just like my outside condenser that died.

I would not pay $3500 just to get a SEER 13 on R22 outside condenser. I would pay that price for a new evaporator coil, a new lineset (or a good flushing if the lineset is not easily accessible), and a new outside condenser on R-410A.

    Bookmark   December 15, 2012 at 10:16PM
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mike_home

I did a search on the model number you provided. I am not sure who makes this condenser. It may not be York. This is known as a dry unit. The condenser is sold without refrigerant because units containing R22 can no longer be sold. The installer fills the unit with R22 at your house. R22 is becoming expensive. You are paying a premium just for the refrigerant.

I agree this is not a good plan. I would put the money towards a new condenser, coil, and lineset wth R410A refrigerant.

How large is your house and where do you live? Perhaps you don't need a 5 ton unit. Most houses don't have the properly sized duct work for a 5 ton unit. You may be better off installing smaller condenser and saving some money.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2012 at 9:27AM
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roadking

How old is your condenser and airhandling unit? I'm guessing at least 7 years old probably much older. As noted by hamconsulting you might put in a new condensor and then have the airhandler coil go bad and all that expensive R-22 leak out!

Listen to others who have responded and get a total new system with R-410 condensor and matched coil/airhandler. You might be able to find something for around $5,000-$5500 or so with a long warranty and much less future refrigerant cost if needed.

    Bookmark   December 16, 2012 at 12:00PM
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fluffybunnysui

The GHGD is York's heat pump builder grade condensers know are the Guardian Line. Nice inexpensive units. I've installed many of them. The come with a all aluminum micro channel coil, brass extruded filter dryer & scroll compressor. Its exactly the same as York's medium of the line YHJD... without the 10 year parts warranty. The GHGD only comes with a 5 year warranty.

Hope this helps

    Bookmark   December 16, 2012 at 7:31PM
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DennisGarden

Thanks for all the info. My house is about 2200 square feet in southern cal and the system worked fine for years so I think it's properly vented for 5 ton. I have been told that because this is a two piece, heat-pump system, in order change to R 410, I would have to replace both the outside unit (Condenser) AND the unit in the attic (which I think blows the hot air) because the tubing of both units currently accommodates only R 22 and is the wrong size for R 410. Instead of $3500 that is in the neighborhood of $8000. Please let me now if you think that is really necessary. Thanks.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2012 at 12:30PM
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hamconsulting

I'm in SoCal too. Since you don't need the a/c right now, get other quotes. In the meantime, learn more about the equipment. See the attached picture.

If you just want to get the a/c running, then just replace the outside condenser with one similar to what you have. This will be the cheapest option in the short term, but might cost you in the long term depending on the condition of the rest of your equipment/ducts/etc.

The equipment used in generating cold air works something like this: the outside condenser (aka a/c unit) cools the refrigerant, the refrigerant lines (aka lineset) carry the cool refrigerant to the indoor coil (aka evaporator coil), the indoor coil gets air blown into it to distribute to your house. The not-so-cold refrigerant is returned back to the a/c unit to cool it again. Usually, the fan in the furnace is used to blow the cold air from the evaporator coil into your house.

If you were to only replace your outside condenser (aka a/c unit) and your evaporator coil goes bad in a year, then you will have to pay for a new evaporator coil and probably have to pay high prices to refill the R22 refrigerant.

At this point, if you want to switch back to R-410A, then you might need to replace your a/c unit as well. I'm not sure if you can flush the a/c unit. I know that you cannot flush the evaporator coils. I know that you can flush the lineset. R22 uses oils that are not compatible with and contaminate R-410A, so you have to flush the lineset clean.

These are some of the reasons why I didn't replace my broken down a/c unit and I ended up replacing my hvac system including a/c unit, gas furnace, evap coils, lineset, ducts, and thermostat.

If all your equipment is in good shape (ducts are sealed and insulated, heat pump/blower are fairly good condition, evaporator coils are fairly new), then just replace the outside a/c unit. If I were you, I would be willing to pay about $2500 to do this.

    Bookmark   December 18, 2012 at 1:36AM
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DennisGarden

Dear Hamconsulting: thanks for your thoughts and very understandable Image. Just to be clear, it seems the outside unit in the Image is identified as an air conditioner only. The problem I am currently having is that I have NO HOT AIR or COLD AIR because my compressor is shorting out and I have been told that the system I have requires that the R 22 must circulate for both hot air or cold air to be generated. Please let me know if that sounds right to you because though I don't need air conditioning right now I do need the heat. And that is why I need to make a decision as to the best way to fix/replce the unit. Thanks.
Also, with regard to evaporator coils,

    Bookmark   December 19, 2012 at 6:16PM
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hamconsulting

It was 39 last night...very cold night for SoCal and I hear it might get colder tonight. I hope you have a gas fireplace to at least keep you warm in the living room.

Unfortunately, I gave you advice on the assumption that my split system setup was similar to your heat pump setup. The phasing out of the R22 refrigerant applies, but in your case the heat pump produces both the cold/hot air.

In my case, the gas furnace with its built-in fan works by itself to produce hot air. So, I can run the heater without the need of the evaporator coil, lineset, nor outside a/c unit.

I read a little about heat pumps, but I don't own one. It looks like a heat pump uses the coils in both heating and cooling. So, you might need to replace both the heat pump and the coils in order to switch refrigerant.

Like I said before, the cheapest fix in the short term is to just replace your heat pump. If the coils go bad at a later date, then you'll have to replace them at that point.

    Bookmark   December 19, 2012 at 7:44PM
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hamconsulting

Here's the heat pump diagram that I was reading up on. I hope this helps.

    Bookmark   December 20, 2012 at 1:13AM
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DennisGarden

Thanks for all the help. Replacing the entire condenser is expensive for me. I have decided to just replace the compressor on my heat-pump system and stay with R 22 coolant for the present. The original is made by Copeland and is part number ZR57k3-PFV-250. The new one also by Copeland part number ZR57k3-pfv-930. The repairman promises that they are identical and that the last 3 numbers have no significance. I would really appreciate hearing from someone as to whether the repairman is accurate. Thanks.

    Bookmark   December 21, 2012 at 9:17PM
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hamconsulting

Check this document http://www.hvacrinfo.com/Compressors/Scroll.pdf

It says last 3-digits are bill of materials, but same unit.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2012 at 1:30AM
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mike_home

Page 89 of the document Ham provided explains the variations. It looks like the -250 is the original factory version. The -900 series is the service replacement part. You should have no problems.

    Bookmark   December 23, 2012 at 11:51AM
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