have you left your front load behind and returned to a topload?

ludy-2009July 26, 2011

Any help or information you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Currently have a front load, but have the mold and mildew. I know, leave the door open --- still a problem. Second floor laundry room so looking for quiet and VERY little vibration. Many rave about Miele - except the few who have had a repair bill in the first few years. Took a chance on the Miele oven and now wish I had bought the Gagg -- so it would take some convincing for me to choose Miele. As I understand from reading many, many reviews, LG is currently or was in a lawsuit, Maytag has had problems, Samsung has had its own problems (involving repairs and parts). Has anyone abandoned the the front load and gone back to a topload? Or, has anyone recently purchased a washing machine that they love, love, love? Anyone own a GE Profile topload? I would LOVE to hear from you if you have recently researched and ended up happy, happy with your washing machine choice. Price is not a major factor. Just want to find a sensible choice.

Thanks in advance!

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Heck no. Always hated the top loaders. Never seemed to work well, small loads, etc. Even when we lived in an apartment we'd use the front loaders at the laundromat. I don't need to see lots of water to "feel" clothes get clean; the results speak for themselves.

Had an LG 2277 for 6 years without major issue until a flood took it out. It always cleaned the clothes well and we could stuff it full.

Ended up with a Kenmore that's an LG at heart. Have been very pleased with it and it cleans well.

Can't speak for Miele but I hear they are very good. If I get 10 years out of the Kenmore (which is possible as long as we don't flood) I could buy 3 of them for the cost of 1 Miele and still be out ahead.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 2:25PM
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I've been using front loaders for twenty six years and just recently went back to a top loader. As I've gotten older, I find that reaching down into a top load machine is easier on my back.

I purchased an LG WaveForce with the heater and couldn't be more pleased. It holds a ton of laundry and gets my clothes as clean as the front loader it replaced which I will admit, surprised me a bit. Plus it easily holds my king size comforter with room to spare, something that was impossible with my German 220 volt AEG OKO LAVAMAT.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 2:59PM
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I chose a front load this spring, to replace an old top load. It takes more than leaving the front door open to avoid the mold & mildew. Some of the new HE top loads can have the same problem with mold & mildew as well.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 3:26PM
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In all my years doing laundry, I have never had mold in any machine I've owned. I've got mold on the outside of my house and occasionally in my shower; never in my washer.

Mold requires two things to proliferate: a moist environment AND a food source. I have moderately hard water and I use the recommended amount of detergent via the manufacturer. This keeps soil/body oils from depositing on the washer parts we can't see. I RARELY use fabric softener, do a couple HOT washes a week and wipe down the inside of the machine when laundry day is done. And I ALWAYS leave the door/lid open.

Works for me.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 5:12PM
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FL for 6 1/2 years. No mold/mildew or any of the other issues read about here. Machine looks like it was delivered yesterday inside and out. Best cleaning and quietest machine I've ever owned. (And that would be many.) I'd never go back.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 5:13PM
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asolo -- what type of machine do you have?

Ask any sales person, the mold and dirt is a very common problem. Front load manufacturers are well aware and have tried to address it, but can never completely do away with the problem given that the rubber seal sits sideways and collects dirt and water (though most now have drain holes --this was not always the case and ours has no drain holes). Glad to hear some of you have had luck -- but what type of machines? Thanks!

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 5:24PM
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Owned a Frigidaire FL for 10 years - no heater - never had mold issue. Did things properly including leaving door ajar.

Purchased Miele W4842/T9822 in Feb of this year and really love them. I see now why you have to own them to appreciate their "nuances". Not sure they are the quietest but they do an excellent job.

I still love the LGs. In fact, just helped a friend buy the WM2550 and matching electric dryer today. LG is the market leader in front load machines.

If I hadn't bit the bullet and bought the Miele, I would have purchased the LG WM3885.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 5:29PM
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FYI, All.

Front-loading washers are also at the center of a consumer controversy. According to a blog entry at ConsumerReports.org, a multi-state class action lawsuit against Whirlpool alleges that front loaders from this manufacturer become moldy and malodorous, even with proper care. This lawsuit had not been resolved as of July 2010. In New Jersey, a similar lawsuit is in progress against LG, another manufacturer of front-loading washers. You can learn more about mold and mildew in front-loading washers in our sections on Washing Machine Types and Front-Loading Washers.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 6:06PM
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Have happily used FLs for nearly two decades and have never had a single bit of mold or smell. Truly, never a bit of it. I don't use HE detergents (and small amounts of same), use mainly powdered detergents, never any fabric softeners. I don't make a fuss over keeping the door open between washes - it never ocurred to me until I read about that advice here. I once left a machine with water shut in it for more than a year (I went abroad) and it didn't develop mold or mildew. My laundry is in a basement that always has moist walls; it's so damp down there I have to decant all powdered laundry products into Tupperware containers to keep them dry. But no mold, or stink, in my machines.

What I do do is wash several loads every week at really hot temps: 140-205F. I think that, and using the correct detergent for my water chemistry, has made the difference.

My machines are Askos and Mieles, all older-style 220V machines, with very effective internal heaters. My detergent is regular Cheer powder. Last Spring I bought another backup machine of this type (220v Miele) off Craig's List for a couple of hundred bucks. I am still in the process of cleaning it up, but I expect to have it on line by summer's end. It came with a bad case of mold and smelled awful! That is all gone now. It will be interesting to see if the problem is user-driven, or if it's the machine.

If I had to use the modern, ATC-controlled machines with wimpy heaters, I might be tempted to go back to TLs as well. But before I did that I'd do everything I could to allow and use very hot water for more washes per week. Plus you may need to break your present machine down for a thorough cleaning. From my experience with the CL Miele, it is possible to root out the hidden caches of skank - but it's not easy.

Try getting your machine really clean, and change your washing habits and see if you can conquer the problem.


    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 6:30PM
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Thought this was real query but apparently not ...

See last post by OP:

"You can learn more about mold and mildew in front-loading washers in our sections on Washing Machine Types and Front-Loading Washers." (emphasis added)

Someone's fishing for something here, and it doesn't appear to be help with their stinky laundry machines. Be gone, spammer!


    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 6:38PM
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I am not a spammer! You are the spammer! That is a post on Google -- Google the issue and you will see -- ask any appliance dealer and you will learn all about it!! Yes, I copied and pasted because I am amazed that people have not heard of the lawsuits involving front loaders. I have been on several of these forums for several years -- was around when the whole thing crashed -- were you? Are you selling front loaders? Just looking for honest people to share their experiences. How dare you! You owe me an apology!

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 7:09PM
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@ ludy-2009

Whirlpool Duet 9400...believe now 2-3 generations "obsolete".

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 7:26PM
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Well, this thread's gone completely to hell. Some folks can't tell trolling from spamming.

Yo, ludy-2009...you're sounding like a broken record. I can see you didn't get the reinforcement you were fishing for. I don't think you'll find many participants here who are not VERY MUCH aware of the issues you are emphasizing. You're not bringing any illumination.

Actually, the whole thing's a mystery to me. My machine is pretty much exactly like everyone else's. My first FL. I read the manual and did what it said. My results have been excellent from day one. Zero problems. So how come so many other people -- you included -- are having all these troubles? I don't know.

If you think your machine sucks, by all means buy something else.

BTW....what machine do YOU have?

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 7:43PM
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Well, enough said. The kitchen forum was fabulous when we went through the remodel. Too bad. This was such a great source. I will seek opinions elsewhere. Thank you to those honest individuals who did try to help.

Asolo, thank you. I am glad you have had a good experience and thank you for your feedback. I am not trying to educate. Just trying to get honest feedback. You are correct. I am done. I will look elsewhere for the information I need.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 8:04PM
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Oh, for heaven's sake...you haven't even been up for 24 hours. 7/8's of the members who might respond haven't even seen your post yet.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 8:16PM
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Wow... this thread came and went before I could put in a full day's work. When did everything start moving so fast?

@ ludy-2009

Please don't take this the wrong way, but you need to grow a thicker skin. I don't agree with what liriodendron said, however he apparently touched a nerve because you found it necessary to start an entirely new thread denouncing liriodendron's comment. Why does it bother you so much? Let it go!

There are divas in every forum who think they know everything or may rub you the wrong way. Don't let it bother you and don't fan the flames. Just let it go and continue with your topic. You were looking for positive feedback from people who switched from front loaders to top loaders. I think you will find several threads on Gardenweb that have addressed this topic, you should do a search and try posting in those threads as well.

The machine that I love, love, love is the Miele W4842. But since you stated in your original post that you are not interested in Miele, my comment will probably not be meaningful to you. However I can tell you that I've owned a front loader since 2001 - so that's 10 years - and I have never had mold or mildew problems. EVER. I also rarely wash in cold water, but when I do, my machine ensures that even a "cold" wash is at least 85F.

People have their theories about mold, but my opinion is that it is caused primarily by two things: 1) washing almost exclusively in cold water, and 2) not using enough detergent. I recently read a study, conducted in Europe, showing that washing in cold water required approximately double the amount of detergent compared to washing in hot water in order to have the same cleaning effectiveness. I do not believe that excessive use of detergent leads to mold. Intuitively it just doesn't feel right. People will take issue with my opinion, and that's fine, but I find it more believable that the re-deposition of oils and soiling from your clothes and back onto your tub and washer parts has much more potential to stick and accumulate than sudsy water. Also, if you had detergent build-up, it would be extremely alkaline and unlikely to be conducive to mold growth.

I've read a few threads from frustrated front load machine owners who have gone back to simple Speed Queen machines. Those people were happy with their choices. You may want to look into that line of products.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 9:00PM
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S, thank you for your input and your feedback. Yes, you are correct, perhaps I should have let it go. My concern however, is that when you call someone a "troller" or "spammer" you kill their post. People don't want to reply because they don't know who to believe. I am hoping to make a decision by tomorrow because I am trying to take advantage of a sale. What L did by calling me a "spammer" was irreponsible at best. L's behavior undermines the value of this forum and that kind of irresponsible behavior cannot and should not be tolerated or the forum becomes useless. By abusing the process, one effectively shuts down any meaningful discussion. I did not want to sit quietly by and watch the post fade.

Having said that, I own three Miele appliances. I am very happy with the warming drawer and the dishwasher. It is not that I would not buy a Miele, but I do have concerns. Your infomation about the cause of the mold is interesting and I will look into the cause issue further. I hope if others have information or opinions, they will share. Thank you for your time and your thoughtful reply. I very much appreciate it.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 9:46PM
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@ludy-2009, when I first joined GW, I was accused of being a spammer. I am very passionate about certain products I use and that can come across as promoting something.

At first I was a little offended (as I had never even posted links to anything). I didn't react like you however. I merely pointed out that they were wrong and explained my passion issues.

We're all adults here (at least I think we are - lol) ...

Having been on here for more than a year now, I can see why some members are a little jumpy about it. There is a lot of spamming that goes on around here and it's annoying.

Agree with @sshrivastava, forget about it and get on with your thread.

@sshrivastava, I tend to agree with your theory of too little detergent and biofilm build up. I do, however, think there could be several theories/reasons (ie. too many suds could cause spider corrosion/bearing failure).

I will reiterate, that Europe has been doing this much longer than us and they don't use much (if any) chlorine bleach and they have no mold issues. Higher temps, more frequent washing, oxygen bleach (some reasons they may not have a problem).

I know two people personally who had mold issues in their FLs. When I helped both of them, it became clear they hadn't really read their manual and there were a few things they were doing wrong.

One didn't know she had a filter in her LG that needed to be checked periodically. When it was checked, it had a baby sock, hair scrunchy among other things. It stunk to high heaven in there. Once cleaned out, all was good again. For the longest time she thought she had sewage backing up in her laundry sink - she had no clue it was her machine.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 9:53PM
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WOW! I'm trying to wrap my head on how a baby sock and a couple other things could fit in an LG's filter. Ours is small and I would have thought that a sock (even a baby's) would just about fill it up.... I know ours used to get the usual things - regular old lint, dog and cat hair.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 10:03PM
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PS. Meant to mention that I don't believe every manufacturer does everything the best.

While Miele is best know in NA for dishwashers, in most of the world they are know for washing machines.

I do own two Miele vacuums which I really do think are awesome.

I really do love my Miele machines (although I've only owned one other FL - Frigidiare - so couldn't say if I would love an LG too).

I do see huge differences between my currect Miele and my previous Frigidaire. Miele is hands down better. Better at washing and definately better at rinsing.

I just got a Miele dishwasher, so I'm just getting used to it. It seems great but my previous KA washed well too (it was just TOO noisy).

Anyway .... my point is ... just because their oven may not be great doesn't mean they don't make the best washing machine.

Does my rambling make sense?

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 10:05PM
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I had a kenmore He3T for for over 9 yrs, never had a mold or smell issue with it. I washed in warm or hot water mainly, never wiped the door seal much less, leave the door open. I used the proper amount of HE detergent in it and FS to boot. Only reason I went to a HE Top loader now, was due to limited options for finding a washer that had a reversible door, and I didnt feel like buying pedistal again. I now have a LG wave force for 7 months, works just as good as My Front loader did, easier to load and unload, bigger too. No smells in it either

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 11:10PM
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Thanks, gates1. Have read great reviews on these machines. Is the washer quiet? Spin quiet? Does the machine move during the spin cycle? Thanks for your help.

    Bookmark   July 26, 2011 at 11:37PM
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Is your LG WaveForce good at washing large quilts or blankets? I am quite intriged with it, but want to be very careful before making a new washer and dryer purchase.

My daughter has one of the newer, larger capacity Cambrios and she is just tickled pink with it. Likes it much much better than her two previous front loaders.

My criteria are for a new machine are good cleaning of gardening clothes, and it has to rinse well as I have sensitive skin. The other is that it does a good job with quilts and blankets.

The Miele sounds good as well, but I seem to be leaning towards a top load again.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2011 at 12:10AM
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To those of you with the LG WaveForce -- any problems with the clothes getting knotted? Any service issues?

Also, I read that the GE Profile Harmony was designed by LG for GE. Does anyone know whether they are essentially the same washing machine just different name/manufacturer -- few different features? Thanks!

    Bookmark   July 27, 2011 at 12:24AM
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ludy-2009 writes: "Ask any sales person, the mold and dirt is a very common problem. Front load manufacturers are well aware and have tried to address it, but can never completely do away with the problem given that the rubber seal sits sideways and collects dirt and water (though most now have drain holes --this was not always the case and ours has no drain holes). Glad to hear some of you have had luck -- but what type of machines? Thanks!"

There is probably no more common source of MISinformation than a salesperson. A salesperson's job is to increase the dealer's revenue, not to educate the customer. Take any "advice" from any salesperson with a fistful of salt.

What type of machines? Our (74 years and multiple generations') experience:

Bendix front loader, 1937 (not a typo) to early 1970's: Never any mold or smell problem, even when the only chemicals used were soap, not modern detergents.

Westinghouse front loader, early 1970's-1995: Never any mold or smell issues, ever.

Frigidaire Galaxy front loader, 1995-2011: Never any mold or smell issues, ever.

Samsung WF419AAW, 2011-: So far, no mold or smell issues.

What have we done that makes our experience differ from "any" uneducated salesperson's anecdotes? Well, for one, we do not wax our clothes (use fabric softeners). There is no way to wax clothes without waxing the inside of the machine, and wax makes an excellent host for mold.

For another, we add a scoop of borax to almost every load; borax is a mild disinfectant and an excellent flux. Perhaps our use of borax is relevant, or maybe not.

For a third (contrary to the advice of some others here), we use the minimum amount of detergent to get the job done; currently, we use Biokleen (which is made from grapefruit seeds as the main component), the All-Temperature variety (which is enzyme-free), liquid, about one-half capful, per load; perhaps our use of borax reduces the quantity of detergent necessary to get the clothes really really clean. When the prescription to address a specific cleaning problem calls for enzymes, we apply the enzymes (Biokleen Bac-Out) directly to the area that needs the enzymes. Works for us.

Finally, in all these years, it never has occurred to us to close the washer door until it clicks after we remove the wet clothes. We have not left the door ajar specifically to prevent mold and smells from developing; it just seemed pointless to close the door all the way until it clicked. A washing machine is not a refrigerator or freezer; the cold air will not leak out.

FWIW, 90 percent of our laundry loads are with the machine set for warm wash/cold rinse.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2011 at 12:44AM
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My Duet (a 3rd generation) 9350 model I think is almost seven years old. Not one speck of mold ever. And I don't do anything out of the ordinary. I just use powdered he detergent and a little white vinegar mixed with a little fab softener. When I wash whites I use hot water and a little bit of chlorine bleach. When done, I wipe the door seal down (takes 5 seconds) and I pull the detergent drawer out to get air and leave the door cracked.

Being that my Duet is 3rd generation, it does use MORE water than the newest ones. Each year they use less and less water. I dread when mine dies and I have to get a new front loader. I prefer FL over TL but I think there should be a cut off point at the limiting of the amount of water they use, but they keep cutting it more every year.

    Bookmark   July 27, 2011 at 8:19AM
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Europe has been doing this much longer than us and they don't use much (if any) chlorine bleach and they have no mold issues. Higher temps, more frequent washing, oxygen bleach (some reasons they may not have a problem).

Since chlorine bleach kills mold (and mildew and e-Coli bacteria), I can't see how usage of chlorine bleach could promote the growth of mold. Seems to me it prevents it.

I agree about washing [some loads] in true water.

For years and years I washed laundry in traditional washers, used chlorine bleach when I washed white cottons and towels in true hot water. I don't know whether I washed more often than Europeans, or not. I never used oxygen bleach in all that time. I did leave the lid of the washer open when not doing laundry. I never had any problems whatsoever with mold, mildew, or anything else.

Now I have an HE toploader (Maytag Bravos 850). I am able to wash in hot water. I rarely use chlorine bleach anymore. I use oxygen bleach when washing white cottons and towels in hot water. I only have to wash 3-5 loads of laundry per week, as my washer capacity is so big. I still leave the lid open when I'm not doing laundry. And I still have no problems whatsoever with mold, mildew, or anything else.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 1:11AM
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I meant to say:

I agree about washing [some loads] in true HOT water.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 1:12AM
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Mara, I believe the reference you cite about Europeans not using chlorine bleach was to emphasize that they tend not to have mold trouble even when chlorine bleach is typically not used.

Although there may not be an obvious odor or other signs of it, even the cleanest-looking toploader likely DOES have some mold/residue/scrud on bottom of the outer tub and under the inner basket where it can't been seen without disassembling the machine.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 5:16AM
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ludy.....I have no issues with clothes getting knotted up.No more than what I encountered when I had a convention top loader. The key to success here is to not over load, load the same type of material clothes and choose the right cycle. I only own king size bed lines, so I wash sheets seperate from blankets. I have some cotton blankets that are seriously heavy when they are wet, so it works better to wash two of them together for the balancing act in the spin cycle. I spin everything at the max speed, so shorten drying time in the dryer. There has been a time or two where those evil blankets got the machine off balance, but it is a quick fix. They just weigh so much when they are wet. All bed linens are washed on the bed/bulky cycle, excellent result accure. My washer has a water plus option on it which can come in handy on certain items. The machine is quiet in all cycles, More quite than my previous FL, but keep in mind, the new FL's are even quieter than my old one as technology has improved. You can do a search here for my posts on the machine under "My Waveforce review" Lots of info there to help you out

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 9:10AM
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I guess smelly washers are an issue of FL if Downy has introduced Downy Unstoppables.

Knock on wood, our KitchenAid TL is still going after 24 years. We had the first repair two years ago to replace the water inlet value. I have had to pick lint from the agitator.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 3:08PM
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My first Maytag Neptune suffered from heavy scrud contamination. At the time a LOT of people were wailing about the Neptunes and their smelly laundry. I fixed the problem though, not with new parts or a new machine, but by modifying our laundering habits. We never really learned how to use our front loader and overdosed it with liguid detergent and liguid fabric softner and NEVER washed with hot water to conserve energy. These were the perfect elements for disaster. We didnt jump on to the SUE MAYTAG bandwagon, we just learned how to use our machine. A couple years later I found a clearance sale on a brand new touchscreen model and swapped out for that one. In the year after with the old machine and in 6 years since we purchased the new machine we have not had one whiff of smelly washer. We simply wash at least one load in hot water each week and one of those loads is with LCB. I dont know that the bleach makes much difference but the hot wash makes a world of difference. If it is smelly machine you fear, the real culprit is the user in the great majority of cases. I intend to have the oldest running Maytag Neptune on the planet with a target date for retirement in about 15 more years. (I own a lot of parts :) But thus far have not expended one dime in repairs on the current machine.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 9:45PM
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Must add that we switched to all powder detergent and use dryer sheets for our fabric softening.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2011 at 9:46PM
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I read literally 100+ reviews on the new Electrolux IQ Touch and Wave Touch HE washer before I decided to go ahead and try it out and see if it lived up to all the claims that owners made. I got the IQ Touch at an excellent price at our local Lowes. I didn't really need all the extra options on the Wave Touch.

Anyway, I've had it only about just over a week now and I notice a big difference in how clean our clothes get compared to our old 2001 Kenmore HE3t. I use the recommended amount of detergent and FS and they always come out clean with no smell (I use all the unscented products). It's amazing to see how clean and well rinsed the clothes get with the small amount of water it uses.

I honestly didn't think I would ever go back to front loader when we started having problems with the Kenmore HE3t but I'm so glad I gave the 'Lectro a chance; Every time I do laundry, I'm like a kid opening a present on Christmas morning ;-)

I think manufacturers of HE machines are slowly learning what works as far as design and operation and what does not.

    Bookmark   July 30, 2011 at 1:06PM
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A friend mentioned yesterday that she got a new FL when she moved to a condo. Her new one is stackable. It's a Bosch.

She said it cleans clothes fantastically better than her previous FL. The previous FL was more than 10 years old. It was an American make. (I won't name it here).

That is all she said; I didn't ask for more.

Her experience concurs with mine. About 8 years ago I got a Front Loading Washing Machine. Until then I was never much interested in washing machines. I just got an FL because I had read a little bit about it being better.

Then, I was blown away when I saw it really did perform THAT much better. I began to see that I had been wise or lucky. Before buying it, I knew just enough to know that the price would be worth it. In those days, around 2003, FL cost a lot more than Top-loading machines. Why pay more? I felt it would be worth it. I was so lucky to have had that thought. It is a pleasure to wash things now. All my clothes last a lot longer now too. Everything about the whole experience is so much better. If I had a lot of free time, I would make a list of all the benefits. But, I don't need to do that. So many other people have done that before me. And, I don't need to read all their posts contributed here and in other threads.

Also I concur with the others who observe that many aspects of the conduct shown by ludy-2009 correspond to phony profiles/fakes/posers/ who troll spam and phish for more. Threads that sound like content-generators and only that. Threads that sound like Help help all hands on deck, I need to decide now because there is a Sale on now. Help, I need to make a "cooktop decision by the morning" (a real thread from March 1st 2009). Other examples of other behaviors can be provided. I enjoy spotting behaviors. It's fun for the whole family.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2011 at 9:26AM
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Also I concur with the others who observe that many aspects of the conduct shown by ludy-2009 correspond to phony profiles/fakes/posers/ who troll spam and phish for more. Threads that sound like content-generators and only that. Threads that sound like Help help all hands on deck, I need to decide now because there is a Sale on now. Help, I need to make a "cooktop decision by the morning" (a real thread from March 1st 2009). Other examples of other behaviors can be provided. I enjoy spotting behaviors. It's fun for the whole family.I don't understand these statements. How could someone benefit by fake postings asking for information? The OP did not post any links or advertise any web sites, so how is simply asking for information considered phony, fake, etc., and even if it is, how is the OP benefitting? How is this and other potentially "fake" threads harming consumers who are participating in them? I'm somewhat uneducated in these things, so I'm curious.

    Bookmark   August 2, 2011 at 9:43PM
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Wikipedia has a lot of people with a lot of experience.

Read on wikipedia about people's helping behaviors, and how this comes out warped in some cases. Words like "grief" and "disruptive" are often applied. The contributor makes others work a lot. It generates content, but also a lot of useless activity. Some people like to call attention to themselves, and one way is to get a lot of people to work at things they choose to make them work at.

In the thread linked to below, even its title is guaranteed to make people click on it. This is because it is deliberately vague in one specific way. Is there any product to help with this issue?

Here is a link that might be useful: Is there any product to help with this issue?

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 1:35AM
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@ davidro1

I don't mean to be argumentative, but people post generic titles to threads all the time without even thinking about it. And again, how does the OP benefit by people clicking on her thread? There is certainly no financial or monetary reward. I can't wrap my had around this. You guys are saying that asking questions and posting generic thread topics means that you're lonely or there is reason for suspicion. I think that's just silly.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 11:44AM
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sshrivastava, I must say that reading the entire thread to which davidro1 linked (which I had not seen before) has brought me around to davidro1's point of view. The poster in question started the thread with the statement:

"Just the facts. We need a new washer."

Then, a few messages later, the poster wrote:

"Whether you agree or not, there is a problem with mold in washing machines. . . . There is not a single FL machine that has pleased everyone -- they all have their problems . . .. Having already gone the way of FL, unless and until the technology gets better, I would prefer not to use one. I know, I know, many people love their FLs and have no mold. Not relevant to the inquiry."

Deconstruct the latter statement. The poster is saying that facts and and others' experience, "whether you agree or not" any other poster's real world experiences are wrong (or delusional or misguided or whatever) if they conflict with the poster's nonfactual preconceived opinion that washers have a problem with mold, no matter what. The poster has made up his or her mind, and actual facts, actual experiences, are "not relevant to the inquiry." Yet the poster has asked people to post on the subject. For what? The poster is, in effect, issuing a ukase: "Agree with me and post your agreement for others to read."

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 1:10PM
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Searching OP's previous posts will tell you all you need to know. My personal favorite is the entirely separate post demanding an apology from someone. Pretty weird, IMHO, and likely indicative.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 2:20PM
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The way I read it, ludy-2009 doesn't want an FL washer with heater, rather he wants a TL washer fed by an external hot water source. Since this is his decision, others' opinions about FL washers are indeed not relevant to the inquiry. He wants to know what he can buy to accomplish what he wants. Not unreasonable or troll-like at all, IMO, and I'm surprised that people see it that way, textual analysis notwithstanding.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 2:26PM
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Yes....OP wants something that won't do what they imagine it will, would be very expensive, dangerous, and probably illegal. And they persist in the enquiry in the face of repeated explanations on two different forums. No textual analysis required. In the end they said they understood. Surely did take a while, though.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 2:48PM
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Unless the manuals online are out-of-date, there are still residential water heaters that go to 155F-160F. If the manuals are out-of-date, there may still be new old stock available. Get a small one, say 30 gallons, and plumb it to a Speed Queen TL that fills entirely with hot water. The incoming water will have to heat the innards of the washer, but it's a lot of water, so the result will still be pretty hot. Somewhat expensive, true, but that's their choice. Not so dangerous, as long as no one climbs into the filled tub. And why would it be illegal, if it's a water heater manufactured for residential use?

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 3:11PM
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Referring you to same topic OP carried to plumbing forum on my advice. I'm not expert on topic but several there are.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 3:18PM
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sshrivastava, ok, great.

Look, nobody has ever claimed that the OP would "benefit by people clicking on her thread" in any hard + specific way. It's just that the person does things that call out for more attention. We know "there is certainly no financial or monetary reward". Attention is a reward that billions seek.

Something psychological can be hard to explain, if you aren't researching the phenomenon in the abstract general case first. You may be trying Too Hard to wrap your head around this one case. Step back and learn about the phenomenon that I described generally. Take a few days. There is nothing gained by saying that in the last few hours you didn't get it.

The fact that you didn't get it, (not so far) is A-OK, perfectly permissible. And some people will say it's all no big deal. Some will say the opposite. OTOH, if you opened new threads and had a dozen highly qualified people all helping you, and if you didn't get it still and kept on hammering in various weird ways, well, ummm, then some would say you have a problem... (which is not the case).


New topic.

The better and better this forum becomes, the more you will see people arriving on your doorstep asking for help in self-centered ways. (Reminds me of immigration). But we are all participants, not customer service staff.

When you consider how much thought went into the OP's thread before it even got created, it makes reasonable sense to ask that the thread title be a bit less "fishing for all to come in out of curiosity" and a bit more precise about the concern. But this factoid alone is worth nothing. Taken in a long series, it can be evidentiary accumulation. Some will say it's no big deal.

Game playing behaviors are a detectable trend, but exposing the trend is difficult if one is called upon to list specific items that are each one hard enough to be cited as disruptive or offending. I hope this makes sense.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 3:44PM
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As David mentions, attention is the reward for a troll. The more posts they can garner, and the more strife they can generate, the better they feel about themselves. And they accomplish this with various methods. The vague "I'm so helpless, help me" title is one way. The seeming obstinate lack of understanding and deliberate rejection of the provided information are two more. Finally, you have fly off the handle behavior with insults. All of these are earmarks of trollish behavior. It's a textbook checklist when applied to the OP's postings. As someone else said on the plumbing thread, no one can be this dense unless it's deliberate. I tend to think that there are those this dense, and concede that it could possibly be the case here, except for the deliberate insults. That's definitely the mark of a troll.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 4:57PM
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Funny enough, there has been no recent input from the OP.

    Bookmark   August 3, 2011 at 5:02PM
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If anyone even reads this far into this thread..

I agree with Fordtech about 'changing how we do laundry' can make a world of difference. I was ready to trade in my Samsung front loader because my clothes didn't smell clean anymore. I used the 'washing machine cleaner', but didn't feel like that made a big difference. What really helped was switching to a powder detergent (Cheer Bright and Clean) and using the Purex Crystals softener instead of liquids. Even so, it did take a while before my clothes started smelling better. I've read that the liquids contain wax which builds up on the interior of the washer causing bad smells. I also use a hot water cycle (or the sanitize cycle) once a week.

No more odors and I once again love my front loader!

    Bookmark   September 1, 2011 at 12:44PM
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Regarding the reason for posting that has not been mentioned.
It's my understanding that some of these class action suits against frontloaders are starting to struggle. Evidence is starting to pile up that it was not the washer but the user habits that were the real issue. All cold or mostly cold washes, no hot washes, etc. It could be that attorneys or persons tied to the class action suits are starting posts or blogs to bolster the law suit. Some of the information I've read about is where the attorneys are using these postings as supporting evidence in their cases to show all the people having issues.

Regarding the actual mold issue I've seen more mold in top loaders than I have in front loaders.
Now this is basically because I've been doing appliance service for over 30 years and there are more top loader washers than there are F/L's but it's true.
My vantage point is different from most though because I take machines apart and see the undersides of things that the customer does not see. So yes mold does happen in toploads and this is especially true if the customer has poor washing habits.
For those of us in the service industry we can always tell if you wash with hot water or not regardless of the type of washer they have.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2011 at 4:46PM
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Well damn. I saw a recipe on a popular online web site for a "natural" whitening agent. One of the main ingredients was lemon juice. LEMON JUICE! People are actually stupid enough to pour fruit juice into their laundry and then have the nerve to complain when their machine smells rancid. This is similar to those who make their own "homemade" detergent from soap flakes and a bunch of other stuff without even knowing their local water conditions. Combining soap flakes with hard water is the best way to get a nice buildup of soap scum inside your machine. Yet people use this stuff thinking ooooh how natural and wonderful and damn this smelly washer!

    Bookmark   September 1, 2011 at 9:48PM
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Fresh lemon juice applied directly to a stain, and then set out in the sun, is a long-time popular treatment for old quilts and other textiles. I've also heard of using hydrogen peroxide applied directly to the stain.

I have never heard of either being poured into a washing machine, though.

    Bookmark   September 1, 2011 at 9:56PM
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I laugh every time I read those "home made" detergent recipes. I'm sure many of them would make a chemist cringe. I know very little about chemistry, but some of these recipes tell you to combine vinegar and baking soda. Remember the volcano experiment in elementary school - combine vinegar and baking soda to create a volcano of bubbles? What happens when you combine those ingredients? You get sodium acetate, carbon dioxide, and water. Except for water - which you already have plenty of in your machine - none of these products, to my knowledge, will do anything to clean your laundry. Sodium acetate is the ingredient in "oil and vinegar" chips that make them sour. And guess what? Combining these two ingredients also creates a precipitate that will not dissolve. You can see this quite readily in a clear plastic bottle. Where, exactly, do people think this precipitate is going to go?

So people do all this crazy stuff just so they can claim they wash their laundry for a penny per load... then they have to buy a new washer in five years because of mold and mildew. Or if it doesn't lead to machine replacement, it most certainly will waste a lot of your time. Few people are willing to put a value on their time, unfortunately. I've read so many posts on the internet by people who make their own "homemade" detergent with soap flakes, who have hard water, who are then shocked that they have scum and gunk in their machine.

BASIC HIGH SCHOOL KNOWLEDGE PEOPLE! Oh but wait, I forgot that most of this nation hasn't graduated from high school, and those that did know barely anything about math, chemistry and physics. These people can vote! Scary!

    Bookmark   September 2, 2011 at 12:27PM
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Yes, I did plow through this entire post! I've noticed that fabric softener usage seems to be associated (to some degree) with the mold issues. Is there anyone who can report issues they've had with mold in a FL where they never use fabric softener? If so, what are your other washing habits: frequency of machine use, frequency of hot loads, how hot is hot, detergent type, clean/dry after usage, leave door open, etc? (BTW, my LG has a magnet that holds the door "closed" but allows airflow. I.e., it doesn't allow the door to swing out into the open position but it's not completely latched where the automatic lock can engage.)

As to posters who only want others to provide the "right" answer (as defined by the OP, rather than by accuracy), all the forums could be filled with rants solely about this issue. In fact, I've seen some threads that did just that, and because they were somewhat tongue in cheek, they were very funny!

    Bookmark   September 4, 2011 at 5:23PM
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