Quick pic of my current laundry stash :)

larsi_gwJune 29, 2011

I am out of Persil, Ariel, Vernel and Lenor until mid Septemeber when my family arrives from Germany for a 3 week visit. I just refuse to pay USA prices for these items...it's insane. A huge box of Persil powder retails for like $50-60.00 here in the USA. In Germany, it's like � (Euro) 12-15. Crazy!!

Also out of Vaska...hate paying for shipping and waiting, since all our our 4 local Target stores discontinued carrying Vaska.

Gave the Green Works to a friend, that has a top loader...they love the suds!! :)

I also abandoned my "green" only fabric softeners. I really, really gave it a try though. 7th Generation, Mrs.Meyers, Ecover.... They softened a little, but never really smelled great. While I miss my original Downy April Fresh...I am trying to get used to the "new" version. I keep hoping that if people keep posting horrible reviews on the Downy website, P&G will either bring back the classic/original April Fresh scent or release a 'Classic' version. Either way, I want my April Fresh Downy back. Nothing softens like good old fashioned, animal fat softeners though!! LOL

Tide he liquids and their new he Powders work really great. And the new powders no longer leave a white, powdery residue on the inside of my stainless wash drum. I think for the price, and ease of finding...Tide he works great!!!

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izeve

@larsi, your post and picture made me smile. Thank you :-)

    Bookmark   June 29, 2011 at 3:24PM
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larsi_gw

izeve.... :) Me too!!! Thanks!

    Bookmark   June 29, 2011 at 3:42PM
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livebetter

Oh Larsi ... I knew you'd never last on the green streak ;)

Thank goodness my Greenworks is still doing great things for me. No suds issues at all.

I prefer to not have my kids wearing/sleeping with things that reek of fragrance. No need.

Only green FS I have ever liked is Shaklee. I heard they are reformulating it this fall ... yikes ... sure hope they don't mess with a good thing.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2011 at 4:42PM
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Cavimum

:o)

larsi - I would give you my Persil supply if I could. Such a great detergent but even the "Sensitive" megaperls give my DH a rash and makes me itch. (~sighs~) I have to use it on bath mats and other non-clothing things.

    Bookmark   June 29, 2011 at 5:47PM
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larsi_gw

@livebetter...LOL

@Cavimum...So sweet. Wow, the sensitive was designed and tested by 'top' German dermatologists. I can see, for those scent sensitive, that the regular Persil is way too strong, but the Megaperls are so gentle and full of Aloe.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 12:54AM
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Cavimum

@larsi - yes, it has the aloe, but also has perfume as an ingredient. A friend who was a chemical engineer in her former life & career has told me that detergent allergies are to the perfumes and not the other ingredients. I wish Persil would make a "free & clear" version so that I could go broke buying it. ;-)

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 9:17AM
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sshrivastava

The reason Persil Sensitive works better in Germany than here is because Germans have thicker skin... LOL

@ larsi

You are on a detergent and fabric softener "vision quest"! I see a book in your future... "The Prince of Tide HE". LOL

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 10:48AM
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Cavimum

@sshrivastava - well, I'm one-fourth German, but perhaps my Irish skin prevails. DH has more German blood, so maybe that's why he got a rash and I only itched. ;o)

"The Price of Tide HE" - LOL indeed!

I called Tide's consumer line this a.m. and asked them to make a Free & Clear powder for HE machines. They have F&C for top-load. I pointed out that top-load owners can use HE, but front-load owners can't use top-load detergent. They said they'd pass the request on to the appropriate department. Eh. Whatevs.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 11:10AM
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livebetter

I never thought Tide rinsed very well. Do you find these new formulations better?

I too wish Henkel would make a F&C version of Persil - I'd be all over it too. Here is a link to contact them. I'll send a request and see what happens.

We don't have sensitivities here but I just can't tolerate that much fragrance in my laundry. I broke down and bought some new Persil Megaperls (Universal/Color). I washed tea towels with universal and can't believe how much they smell when I take them out of the dryer (although they were very clean and white).

My mainstays currently are Vaska, Greenworks (unscented), Woolite Complete, Shaklee Fresh Laundry Concentrate and FS. I prefer the Persil Sensitive to the regular ones (based on fragrance alone). I also have the Purex with Zout (unscented).

It gets complicated doing laundry around here. Knowing when to avoid enzymes or brighteners ... sheesh. Sometimes I take at least 5 minutes just deciding which detergent to use for a particular load.

I read recently that detergent builds up in cotton things like towels and you should run them with a cup of white vinegar once a month to bring back their softness. I did that on some Egyptian cotton towels I have and they did come out noticeably softer. Do we think the vinegar is bad for the Miele? I didn't see anything in the manual about it. They just say not to use dye removing products because of the salt.

@Larsi, I tried the Miele delicate wash ... bleck! WAY to much scent for me. If I could give it to you I would :)

I still have $100 for Miele care products so I think I'll stock up on vacuum bags and dishwasher tablets. I REALLY like their DW tablets - they work very well.

Agree about the Tide HE powder (F&C).

"Prince of Tide HE" .... LOL! He's usually "Prince of Persil".

Here is a link that might be useful: Henkel laundry - contact

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 12:51PM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - I called Miele's customer service toll-free number recently, to inquire about all the sudsing I havae, when I use liquid detergents. The guy there said even HE liquid detergents tend to have more suds, so I'm done with those. I'll give away my Vaska and liquid Persil. But I digress . . .

I asked about putting 1/4 cup of white vinegar in the fabric softener dispenser to cut the suds and he said that was fine, it would not hurt my washing machine.

Some vinegar probably would help prevent mold growing in the deep dark bowels of our machines, as well. When I started cleaning our hummingbird feeders with vinegar & water, instead of soap & water, I have much less mold growing in them if any. My friend, who suggested this, swears by it.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 2:12PM
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sshrivastava

@ Cavimum

Putting a pinch of citric acid into 2 cups of hummingbird sugar solution will also inhibit mold growth and make your nectar last longer. Citric acid is tart in taste and totally natural. In fact, our hummingbirds prefer nectar containing citric acid.

Regarding vinegar, it's completely fine to use it in your Miele. It's not prohibited in the instruction manual. I think one of the Miele techs told Larsi not to use it, but those techs say a lot of things they shouldn't and act like they know things they don't. I'll trust the user manual.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 3:29PM
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livebetter

That might be true about vinegar and mold. My previous Frigidaire FL died from bearing failure at just over 10 years old. I never had a mold issue or even a slight smell. I always use vinegar for certain things - I wondered if the vinegar and sodium percarbonate I use regularly helped to keep a clean machine.

I was reading recently about cotton care. Apparently you shouldn't use FS on cotton as it "clogs the pores". I was reading regarding care of fine linens (that's where I read the vinegar tip for towels).

I always wash my sheets with a mild detergent (no enzymes or brighteners), oxygen bleach and some vinegar in the rinse. Sheets look great.

    Bookmark   June 30, 2011 at 9:20PM
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larsi_gw

Prince of Tide, Prince of Persil...LOL

I know that it is not stated in the Miele manual not to use Vinegar, but besides from my favourite Miele Senior Technical Rep we've used for over 10+ years telling me NOT to use vinegar in a Miele...there has been much discussion on our board, about how vinegar is not good for rubbers and plastics & seals. Maybe it is fine, but I am trusting my Miele Rep and basic chemistry knowledge. And...I've tried Vinegar as a FS...it does NOT soften at all, and the faint vinegar smell is NOT pleasant on towels or sheets!!

@livebetter...I am sorry you do not like the Miele Delicate wash. I think I'm going to take a week long road trip, and just come to all your guys' homes and pick up your unused and neglected Persil and Miele detergents!! The Prince of Persil is to the rescue!! LOL

    Bookmark   July 1, 2011 at 10:39AM
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sshrivastava

I agree that vinegar does nothing to soften laundry. It's an urban legend as far as I'm concerned. It may be helpful to those with hard water - the vinegar will help keep minerals from settling onto your clothes. In that regard, yes, washing with vinegar may yield "less scratchy" clothes than without. In my particular situation, vinegar does nothing but make my machine smell like feet.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2011 at 11:55AM
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livebetter

To clarify, I didn't say I used it as a FS. I use it to remove residue from certain things like good quality cotton sheets/towels. I've done a lot of reading on how to properly take care of these items and this was recommended. It DOES have a positive effect on my towels for sure. I never use FS on my sheets/towels to begin with.

Most good quality all-cotton towels do not need to be treated with fabric softener and with repeated washings and dryings, they become softer naturally.

Nothing I use vinegar on ever smells like vinegar when done and my machine smells like ... my machine - not feet :0

I've been doing this for at least 6 years.

I don't use vinegar as a FS but I would point out that vinegar does indeed do something. Maybe not enough for your personal preferences.

"Fabric softeners work by coating the surface of the cloth fibers with a thin layer of chemicals; these chemicals have lubricant properties and are electrically conductive, thus making the fibers feel smoother and preventing buildup of static electricity. Other functions are improvements of iron glide during ironing, increased resistance to stains, and reduction of wrinkling and pilling.

Cationic softeners bind by electrostatic attraction to the negatively charged groups on the surface of the fibers and neutralize their charge; the long aliphatic chains are then oriented towards the outside of the fiber, imparting lubricity. Vinegar works on some materials in a similar way, as the hydrogen ions bind to the anionic groups on the fibers."

Here is a link that might be useful: Fabric softener - Wikipedia

    Bookmark   July 1, 2011 at 4:17PM
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Cavimum

When I spoke with the guy at Miele toll free customer service number, our conversation about vinegar was in the context of cutting through the detergent and getting rid of the extra soap suds from liquid detergents.

A little vinegar in the final rinse is good for wools and silks. They are protein fibers and prefer a little more acid pH than that of everyday (alkaline) detergents. You can even use shampoo for hand washing wools & silks for that reason. Baby shampoo is usually sufficient. If using a specialty detergent geared for wool, there is probably no need for the vinegar. One would assume hope it is pH balanced for wool.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2011 at 7:07PM
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whirlpool_trainee

Larsi, speaking of stocking up on German detergent. There are some new ones available (among other releases):

P&G released Lenor detergent. Comes in liquid or powder and three scents. Ariel is now also available with Febreze Effect.

Persil comes in a liquid Black Gel version with "long-term color protection".

I only bought the Lenor powder for colors - smells nice.

Alex

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 6:17AM
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Cavimum

@whirlpool trainee - Europe must not have the allergies many of us suffer over here in North America. Do any of the 'better' Euro brands come in a scent-free version?

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 8:30AM
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larsi_gw

Whirlpool trainee....

Ariel with Febreeze...Just like Tide with Febreeze. ActiLift is also in both Ariel and Tide. P&G is sharing recipes for both Germany and the USA. I actually like Ariel liquid, the powder is so so for me. I like Persil Powder better!

Persil liquid Black Gel mit Langzeitfarbschutz!!! Das mag ich sehr! Ein toller Einfall! Das will ich!! Ich hoffe, Henkel/Persil bringt diese Artikel nach der USA! Ich muss sie haben. Der Prinz der Persil muss meine Familie anrufen, und mehr Seife auf der Liste vergroessern!!

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 10:41AM
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sshrivastava

I feel like I'm shopping at Kaufhof...

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 11:49AM
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Cavimum

@larsi - ROFLOL!

I'll take that Persil black color protection formula in a no-perfume version, bitte. ;-)

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 1:06PM
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izeve

You guys just crack me up! LOL

    Bookmark   July 2, 2011 at 1:41PM
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whirlpool_trainee

Well, most detergents over here don't have a special scent, Cavimum. They just have their own scents but nothing special. Ariel, for a long time, was just Ariel. Then came Ariel with ActiLift. And now Ariel with Febreze (and ActiLift). There used to be a Free & Clear version of Ariel with minerals but it disappeared from the shelves.

Same with Persil. Every now and then, they will release a special edition of Persil with Vernel or Mountain Freshness or whatever... but most of the time it's just Persil with no extra scent/special scent added. There is Persil Sensitive but even it contains some scent.

All in all, most detergents here don't have extra heavy scents added to them - softeners take that part. Definitely nothing like Tide in the US, where you can get each product in ten different scent variations, it seems.

Another thing is that most Euro washers do three rinses by default vs. two rinses on US front loaders. And they tend to use more water for each rinse, too.

Larsi, I don't think P&G Europe and P&G US share recipes. Tide HE powder, last time I checked, only had two enzymes in it - Ariel has five. All Tide versions have optical brighteners - Ariel Color does not.

The last test of detergents done by Stiftung Warentest (big consumer magazine) rated powdered Ariel & Color Style and powdered Persil Color as the best choices to avoid fading and color-run. Better than all the other detergents tested - powders and liquids. I can email you the test if you like.

Alex

    Bookmark   July 3, 2011 at 8:09AM
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livebetter

@Whirlpool trainee, I almost always use the sensitive option on my Miele W4842 (third rinse) and I still find the scent of Persil too much. I do not mind the sensitive version but they don't make it without brighteners. I did find a color version of sensitive but it was from Poland and did contain brighteners.

I find the German products seem to be more heavily scented than the NA ones (although I don't use most of them either as TOO much scent for me).

On a side note, @Larsi, have you tried the Purex with Zout? I did tea towels overnight with it and some oxygen bleach. WOW! Not one stain and very white. I used extra white, HOT, extended, sensitive. I used unscented with just a bit of the scented, vinegar in the rinse (to make the tea towels extra absorbent) and I'm very pleased with the results.

They will send you a free sample to try.

Here is a link that might be useful: Purex with Zout - free sample

    Bookmark   July 3, 2011 at 11:00AM
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sshrivastava

@ larsi

You will note that all Tide HE powders contain fewer enzymes than their liquid counterparts. Ingredient lists are available on Tide's website for all of their products. Should we take this to mean that Tide HE liquids are better at fighting stains than Tide HE powders?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2011 at 1:02PM
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Cavimum

@sshrivastava - The number of enzymes in Tide liquid v.s. powder might have more to do with cost of production. My friend who was a chemical engineer in her former life worked somewhere where enzymes were part of whatever the company made. She told me it is more expensive to make powder detergents because it all begins as a liquid, there is the step of drying out to make a powder, and the powders require extra ventilation, etc. So it is cheaper to produce liquid detergents, which might explain the plethora of them on the shelves and the dwindling supply of powders. IMO, profit margins & stock dividends almost always take precedence over what the consumer would like to have, if corporate America can get away with it.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2011 at 2:52PM
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sshrivastava

@ Cavimum

That's funny, I thought liquid detergents started as powders! I was under the impression that ingredients such as sodium percarbonate, sodium carbonate, etc. are dry and require to be dissolved in solution, possibly with the aid of an emulsifier like glycerin. I tend to think it's cheaper to produce powdered detergents, since most of the ingredients that go into them start out dry.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2011 at 9:25PM
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larsi_gw

I never considered even trying Purex with Zout, since they few times I've tried Purex..I was not that pleased. Purex is at the very bottom of the Henkel line of products. Altough I do not find Purex Fabric Softeners that bad...the Aloe one is quite nice actually (but hard to find).

So far, the "new" concentrated Tide he powder with bleach, seems to be a powerhouse at removing stains and spots. My super active 4 year old's preschool clothes come out spotless and super clean.

LIVEBETTER...you might really like the new Tide he bleach powder. From the box, the smell is crisp and old fashioned, but after washing and drying (sad for me, since I love scent)...but there is NO scent. I cannot even detect a whiff of scent. And it works great!

SStava...I have been using Tide he liquid with a touch of downy and regular Tide he liquid for all our towels, sheets, colours and darks. So far, all stains come out very well compared to Tide he powder with bleach. I'm srue the oxygen bleach in the powder makes the detergent perform as well as the liquids!

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 11:26AM
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sshrivastava

@ larsi

I remember you proclaiming that use of tallow-based FS products was gross and disgusting, but I also remember reading that you are done with green/natural fabric softeners. So have you gone back to using the more gross and disgusting products? Do you no longer find them as objectionable as you once did?

I'm surprised to hear you speak so highly of Tide, to be honest. I thought we'd have to pry the Persil out of your cold, dead hands. Clorox Green Works is a no go because of recent sudsing, what about Vaska? As I remember, it cleaned very well for you. Have you gone back to more mainstream products due to cost? What's going on here? :)

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 11:36AM
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Cavimum

I recently bought a box of the HE Tide powder 'Original Scent' - not the w/bleach version. The scent is not as powerful and overwhelming as Persil, so it may appear non-existent to those accustomed to Persil.

@livebetter - the Tide scent does linger in the our clothing, sheets and towels. I haven't tried a load of laundry yet using 100% Tide, since cutting it in half with Sears Ultra F&C powder gives us more scent than we're accustomed to, but it seems to be just enough.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 11:48AM
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sshrivastava

@ Cavimum

I have Tide HE Liquid w/ Bleach Alternative and I find the scent lingers after washing and drying. It is that classic "tide smell" that people seem to love so much, and it reminds me of when I used to wash my clothes at the apartment laundromat years ago. I'm conflicted about whether I like it, though. While the smell brings back fond memories, it is also a lingering synthetic scent. I am somewhat bothered by that fact.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 12:01PM
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larsi_gw

@ SStava...

I still do not like the ingredients of mainstream Fabric Softeners, but they just work SO much better than "green" softeners.

Vaska cleans quite well & I like it A LOT, but our THREE local Target stores all stopped carrying it. I now have to either order it from Amazon or soap.com or Alice.com. It annoys me having to pay for shipping and wait for laundry detergent.

Yes, one would have to pry Persil out of my cold dead hands!! LOL

But, I am out of it right now, and since my family is coming in September from Germany, literally filled with a suitcase with nothing but Persil, Ariel and Vernel fabric softener (including Henkel's new anti-bacterial fabric softener :)...I am just using more mainstream products in the meaintime. Surprisingly, the new Tide offerings are working quite well. And while I still shudder sometimes at what is inside Downy...I am using 1/2 the recommended amount, and filling the FS tray with water. So hopefully I am diluting some of the icky ingredients!! ;)

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 12:34PM
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sshrivastava

@ larsi

I know what you mean. I've tried Ecover's softener - you may as well use nothing. I know you don't like the Vaska softener, but I find that it works very well when combined with Vaska detergent. The only green fabric softener that actually worked almost as well as Downy in terms of softening was Seventh Generation's product. Vaska's softener is also quite good, although I know you don't like the smell. You said it smells fishy? I think what you are calling "fishy" are the normal, somewhat musty undertones of lavender. I have a bottle of pure lavender essential oil and it also has that humid, musty undertone that quickly disappears once you apply the oil. Once dried, clothes rinsed with Vaska FS come out smelling very light and fresh. Is your complaint about the way the product smells in the bottle or after drying?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 1:10PM
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larsi_gw

Yeah SStava,,,Ecover FS was like using water. Rubbish. Smell was decent I guess, but softening was awful.

Seventh Generation did actually soften, but I only had a choice of unscented or Laveder/Eucaplptus. ICK!

Mrs. Meyers smelled good, but was very waxy and thick!

I did not care for Vaska FS scent in the bottle, or on the dried clothes. It was either fishy or musty as you described. I also found the texture odd and aesthetically unpleasant :)

Using 1/2 the amount of Downy, and topping off with water...the performance is really, really great...and I have a huge amount of scent choices. Even the unscented Downy softens really well!!

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 1:59PM
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sshrivastava

@ larsi
I did not care for Vaska FS scent in the bottle, or on the dried clothes. It was either fishy or musty as you described. I also found the texture odd and aesthetically unpleasant :)Yes, now that you mention it... rotfl!

I also have Downy Free & Sensitive. It pours like coffee creamer. You'll laugh at this... I keep it handy in case one of the new natural fabric softeners that I'm trying doesn't work very well. If that happens, I throw in a 1/4 shot of the Downy and it's just enough to put the lesser product over the top.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 3:19PM
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whirlpool_trainee

"including Henkel's new anti-bacterial fabric softener"

It's not a softener, just a disinfectant. Several brands offer their own version now. I think people at Henkel deserve a kick in their @$$e$ for this product. First, we have all these uber-moms on TV telling us how well new Persil acticPower cleans in cold water and then, a few weeks later, they try to tell us that, well, cold water is wonderful...but...sometimes... bacteria is left behind and we should all pour disinfectant into our washers. Here comes Persil disinfectant - what a coincidence! :(

I certainly won't buy (into) that.

BTW, the recommended dose of Persil disinfectant is 90 ml, as far as I remember. That is for European (small capacity) washers. I don't know how much one would have to use in a much larger Miele. On top of that, our softener dispenser does not even hold 90 ml to begin with. Persil says that softener has to be added extra.

Alex

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 4:47PM
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sshrivastava

I don't understand these manufacturers. I have been using grapefruit seed extract (GSE) with success as a natural disinfectant for laundry, household surfaces, and external application. 1.5CCs (cubic centimeters) is enough to disinfect a load of laundry. That's 1/4 teaspoon. And you need 6 tablespoons of the Persil disinfectant? Something is amiss.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 7:59PM
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suburbanmd

The Wikipedia article on grapefruit seed extract raises questions about its efficacy as a disinfectant. How do you define "success" in using it?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 8:45PM
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sshrivastava

I'm not a scientist and don't conduct studies in my home. However, it has removed mildew odors from the waistband of some troubled sweat pants that have had that strange odor for years. It also clears up my dog's ear infections and has worked wonders on a difficult toenail fungus. I would qualify all of those as successes.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2011 at 11:31PM
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mielemaid

Phew, I thought Larsi had changed TO TIDE instead of sticking with Persil.

I like Persil better than Ariel, and I hate Downy. The Italian softener that I liked is no longer available but if you look for Lenor at Amazon & Vernel they are available at Amazon from Better Products Online.

I bought 16 bottles of it btw. I adore Lenor! I'm kind of scared to use Tide HE due to oversudsing in my Miele.

I was told to use vinegar in my Miele dishwasher by Miele themselves so I use it a lot in there. So far everything is ok with it.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2011 at 12:25AM
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larsi_gw

@ Miele Maid...

"You adore Lenor, but hate Downy".

You do know that they are both made by P&G...and they share the SAME formulas, and even several scents are IDENTICAL to USA and Canadian scents?? P&G just renames Lenor & Downy versions for different markets and countries..SO sorry sweetie...It's all in your mind, if you hate Donwy, but love Lenor :)

    Bookmark   July 6, 2011 at 10:03AM
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livebetter

OK ... the only Tide compact powder available in Canada is the HE (non bleach) version. It is original scent (same as bleach version is US). Should smell the same right?

It was on sale today so I grabbed a box. We'll see ... I'm a little worried scent will be too much. I tried to smell through the box and it didn't seem over whelming.

Hilarious! I used to only use Tide original and Downy F&C years ago. Now I'm "scared" of it ... LOL ...

My mom was visiting this week so I gave her some Persil megaperls to try in her new LG. She often shops at a German store in her town (as my step father is German) and they sell it. She really liked the smell so she may become a Persil convert.

They have a friend coming to visit from Germany in September and he offered to bring me anything I�d like to try. Any suggestions for German laundry products I should try (different from megaperls since they are readily available here)? Remember I don�t like too much scent (if that�s possible from German products).

I have to say, I'm really liking the Woolite Complete. Very suble scent and gentle cleaning. I used it on Egyptian cotton beach towels today and they are lovely :)

    Bookmark   July 6, 2011 at 2:38PM
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whirlpool_trainee

Lenor is my favorite, too! I never used to like Vernel because it would gunk up the dispenser and leave no smell after drying - unlike Lenor. BUT, I recently got to try some Vernel and it's wonderful. Clean dispenser and the scent - oh my! The good thing about Vernel is that you can smell the "final smell" when you open the bottle. Lenor usually smells totally chemical in the bottle and you only know what it really smells like once you used it on your laundry. Don't like the scent? Well, too late! Unfortumately, I took advantage of a special offer and bought seven bottles of Lenor. Oh well, I still love it.

livebetter: obviously, if you want the best, it's either Persil or Ariel. They always rank as the top detergents. Best stain remover: Sil Powder by Henkel. Best dishwasher detergent: Somat 9 tablets or alio powder by Aldi (South).



    Bookmark   July 6, 2011 at 5:19PM
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larsi_gw

Livebetter,,,,

Tide he Powder and Tide he Powder with Bleach SMELL 100% DIFFERENT!! The Bleach version smell crisp and herbal (and like old fashioned soap).

Tide he Powder with the Original Scent smells soft and somewhat powdery and of faint perfume..yet clean and non-offensive to me at least.

I think both smell great. If you like more powdery and floral, you will like the non-Bleach version better!

    Bookmark   July 6, 2011 at 5:26PM
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livebetter

Thanks Whirlpool trainee!

Larsi, how can they both say "original scent" if they smell different? Is there more than one original scent?

The Tide smells somewhat strong in the box although not as strong as Persil. I'll see how dryed laundry smells.

Not even sure why I need to try this ... I'm pretty happy with current selection ... ah the addiction :)

Looks like I need a cross border shop soon! With the Cdn dollar so strong it's an extra incentive.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2011 at 7:54PM
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mielemaid

Larsi - serioiusly, I don't think that Downy & Lenor are the same! They smell completely different. They might both be made by P & G, but P & G also makes Ariel & Tide and SOME people say they're the same but they are also not the same. In fact the Mex Ariel is also really stinky compared to the Euro version of Ariel.

    Bookmark   July 7, 2011 at 1:31AM
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larsi_gw

Mielemaid...

Of course they have scents that are different that what we have in the USA and Canada. It's like Dove bar soap and Dove body wash! When I lived in Germany & Austria...Dove smelled totally different than what Dove has smelled like in the USA for decades. BUT...the formula is basically identical.

Same with Lenor and Downy. Different smells somewhat, for different markets...but the formulas are the same. P&G loves maximized profits!!! :)

    Bookmark   July 7, 2011 at 10:07AM
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Cavimum

"The Bleach version smell crisp and herbal (and like old fashioned soap).
Tide he Powder with the Original scent smells soft and somewhat powdery and of faint perfume."

Tide's boxes are sealed so tightly, I couldn't smell anything from either version at the store. I may have to engage in experimental behavior and invest in a box of the 'bleach' version. @larsi's description sounds like that scent wouldn't bother me as much. It may cause another rash/itch-fest from the perfume, for DH and myself, but it's all in the name of (laundry)science.

Do the Tide liquid HE versions smell the same as the corresponding HE powder versions?
Someone will benefit from the perfumed detergents we cannot use.
;o)

    Bookmark   July 7, 2011 at 10:26AM
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mielemaid

@sshrivastava - I know you directed a question to Larsi regarding VASKA, and I have to say I am completely unimpressed with the washing liquid and with the softener which does not really smell that well, except when it's completely dry. If one phones up Vaska (they were sold to a larger company recently) they will send you samples. I got their samples - just not impressed with it.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 12:10AM
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livebetter

I LOVE Vaska - I pay to have it shipped to Canada. To each their own obviously but I love the smell of the Herbatergent (don't use the FS) and I think it cleans really well. Of course, I don't wash my dirtiest tea towels with it but for gentle washing of items I'd like to keep nice - superb! I've used it for white sheets/towels with oxygen bleach and they are still very white and clean.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 12:41AM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - how much Vaska do you use? Full or half cap? It goes nuts over-sudsing in my W4842 at the suggested dose. Every time, and the water here is completely neutral in pH and hardness.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 8:08AM
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livebetter

@cavimum, depends on the load. A load of queen/king sheets would get one full cap with 2 tbsp of oxygen bleach. I would use some vinegar in the rinse to help remove any residue. A load of towels would get about the same.

If the sheets were not changed for a few weeks (I hate that but it happens) then I might increase dose to 1-1/2 caps. I would might also use a prewash or extended cycle.

When I do smaller handwash or delicate loads I would use less depending on how many items in the load. Maybe half a cap for a smaller load. I also use it to handwash delicates in the sink (my expensive bras come out beautifully when washed with Vaska).

Water hardness here is moderately hard (8.7 Grains/Imp gallon). I've never had a suds issue with it and it rinses great.

My friend and I order it on line and have it shipped here (we both have Miele W4XXX machines). We both LOVE it and can't imagine laundry without it. My friend has a new baby and does all his laundry with Vaska - I can't stop snuggling him 'cause he smells divine (and he's cute)!

I looked for a LONG time for a nice natural lavender detergent that worked and I finally found it with Vaska. It will be a sad day for me if they don't make it.

I've been using it for several months so I know it works. Nothing is turning dingy.

I just did handwash laundry of mine the other day (some delicate tops) and I just couldn't stop smelling how lovely they all smelled when they were done.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 11:02AM
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sshrivastava

@ mielemaid - Different strokes for different folks. I love Vaska because it leaves my clothes incredibly soft and fluffy. It may not clean as well as Tide, despite Vaska's claims, but for me it's a staple detergent for sheets, pillow cases, duvets, towels, and other items I would like to remain as fresh and soft as possible. These are not items that get heavily stained. I only have sudsing issues w/ Vaska when I wash towels at full dose, so for towels and similar "fluffy" items I cut the dosage in half.

I'm still waiting for the "perfect" detergent that will give me superior cleaning combined with excellent softness. I have recently achieved good results by adding 1.5 TBS of LanoSoft powdered laundry soap to whatever detergent I happen to be using at the time. LanoSoft is primarily soap flakes (w/ glycerin) that help to keep clothes soft even after using a relatively strong detergent like Tide HE. Now my Tide HE loads come out as soft as my Vaska loads, so I'm starting to combine my laundry stash in interesting ways to get the best of both worlds. :)

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 11:26AM
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Cavimum

I just returned from Kroger grocery store. They have Tide Liquid HE Coldwater ~FREE~ formula. That isn't even on Tide's web site yet.

Would the Coldwater formula work well in warm and hot washes? It's a dumb question, but it may only work well in cold water....I am detergent-challenged, and it is perfume free...

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 12:46PM
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livebetter

I have that one too. It is on the US site (not on Cdn site for some reason).

I found this in FAQs:

What happens if I use warm water by mistake?

Tide Free for Coldwater HE can also be used in warm and hot water washes.

What is the ingredient that makes Tide Free for Coldwater HE better in cold water?

It is difficult to point to any one ingredient as the ingredients in the formulation work synergistically together to maximize the performance of Tide Free for Coldwater HE in cold water washing.

Let us know what you think. I thought it cleaned well. I'm not a fan of detergent is optical brighteners so I don't use it much (every know and then).

Here is a link that might be useful: Tide Free HE Coldwater

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 5:20PM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - Thanks for the link! I did not see any whiteners, brighteners, or optical brighteners in the ingredients list. This might be the thing for my dark colors. Tide's regular F&C has a flourescent brightener.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 8:06PM
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livebetter

@cavimum, every Tide product has brighteners so I assume this is an oversight on their part. I will email them to find out. I too would be excited to find out it did not contain OBAs. I can't see why the regular HE Free would have them but not the coldwater version?

If you have Woolite Complete at a store near you - try it for your darks. I'm really enjoying it and using more than I thought. It has a fragrance but it is very mild (unless even a littel is too much for you).

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 8:29PM
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mielemaid

I have not used Tide for cold water but I have a friend who says that Tide for cold water is awful. She's also into laundry, cleaning, etc.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 9:06PM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - I never considered Woolite. Just now looked it up on the 'net, but the product graphics don't show HE version.

Do you use the darks formula in your Miele? Sudsing?

A little fragrance may not bother me, but the itching is another story. I'm game to try it if it is HE safe.

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 9:10PM
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livebetter

@cavimum, the US site doesn't show it but the Cdn site shows what my bottle says. For both top load and front load. Same dosage for both.

I haven't had any suds issue with it.

I have not used the darks version. Here in Canada we also have a version for colors. Both darks and color have a die catching ingredient to keep clothes from taking on color from other items in the wash.

My mom has the dark version and likes it.

I find the darks and color have a little more scent to them.

I bought the complete one because my Costco had it for a good price. I've used it for my husband's dress shirts (Italian cotton), towels, sheets, nice clothes. No enzymes and no brighteners.

Here is a link that might be useful: Woolite Cdn Site

    Bookmark   July 8, 2011 at 11:32PM
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Cavimum

@mielemaid - Did your friend say why she did not like Tide Cold Water formula? Cleaning? scent? left clothes feeling scratchy?

@livebetter - Down here, Woolite is either loved or hated by people. For the past twenty years, most of the people who mention Woolite have nothing good to say about it, but it has its fans, and obviously is still in business.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 7:57AM
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livebetter

@cavimum, I guess it depends on how you view laundry and detergent. I'm not from the camp of "one detergent for all things".

Detergent like Tide (or any myriad of others) are created to tackle almost any stain known to mankind. All that "stuff" (ie. enzymes, brighteners, surfactants) takes a toll on fabric.

This is what Woolite says about that:

Q: What does "washing related damage" mean?

A: Washing related damage is damage to your clothes that has occurred due to repeated chemical, temperature related or mechanical wear on your clothes during the wash. Certain ingredients that may be included in laundry detergents can damage clothing fibers and colours. This, in combination with high washing temperatures and heavy centrifuging, can cause your clothes to "age prematurely".

I've read comments from people who try to wash a dirty/stained load (ie. tea towels) with a gentle detergent and then declare it doesn't work. You need to select your detergent based on what you're washing.

I do use products like Persil/Tide but only when I feel that kind of power is needed. Even some greener choices like Seventh Generation, Shaklee, Method contain enzymes and maybe brighteners.

There are many items I wash where a gentle detergent to remove "daily" dirt is all that's needed. Any special stains would need a pretreatment.

My husband's dress shirts for example; he wears them once. He's pretty neat so rarely is there a food type stain. He has some collar dirt but not excessive; I pretreat the collars and wash with a delicate detergent like Vaska or Woolite Complete (with a little oxygen bleach). His shirts look wonderful. He buys expensive Italian cotton custom shirts and they stay looking good for many years.

These are obviously personal preferences/choices but it's working for me currently. The only down side is trying to decide which detergent to use :)

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 10:41AM
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Cavimum

If I run across some of the Woolite Dark HE, I will sniff-test it and might give it a try. I'm desperate for something that won't lighten my dark clothing over time, beyond the norm.

Our clothes don't get really dirty and the perfume issue is going to limit our choices. I once tried adding some BIZ liquid to DH's sweaty golf shirts. The perfume odor permeated the house, and he broke out in a rash from it. BIZ liquid is far more heavily perfumed than the powder, but I still only use it for soaking mystery stains. It was a godsend for grass stains, back when our son played middle school football.

re: Seventh Generation detergent - Several years ago, I tried the SG "hypoallergenic" powder. It said "hypoallergenic" on the box and had no scent. I did a whole week's worth of laundry in one day with it, including sheets & towels. The next day, DH was fine but I was broken out in the worst red itchy rash and found a dermatologist who could work me in that day to give me a Kenalog shot. $90 later, I will never ever go near Seventh Generation again. (I also had to re-wash everything.) Years later, I stumbled upon that web site which shows lab-test residues, and SG had the highest residue, so I attribute my experience to that.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 3:17PM
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izeve

@Cavimum, I would highly recommend unscented Vaska for your darks and delicate laundry. I absolutely love it. It's great at removing deodorant residue and various smells and yet gentle enough for wool, silk and cashmere. My local Target carries it (in a special natural cleaner section, not detergent section). I've tried a number of detergents over the last 10 or so months, and Vaska Unscented hands down is the best detergent for darks and delicates.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 3:33PM
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whirlpool_trainee

For what it's woth: this is my current stash. Ariel Compact powder and Lenor powder for colors. Ariel stain remover and Perwoll for washing duvets in this wonderful new machine. Lots of Lenor softener as I took advantage of said special offer. And no, I usually don't stack this stuff like this. *lol*

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 4:44PM
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Cavimum

@whirlpool trainee - If your stash actually stayed stacked like that, then you definitely have NO vibration issues at all from your washer. LOL

@izeve - I'll try the Vaska with clothing. It makes terrible suds with towels.

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 5:15PM
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livebetter

@cavimum, I LOVE Vaska too. It's just great.

Try putting a small amount of vinegar in your bleach compartment. This will help squelch suds (I think).

Also, you should notice less sudsing with clothes. Towels can create a lot of suds as they are not very dirty and they are thick.

Let us know how you like it.

@whirlpool trainee, is the Ariel Compact Powder like the Tide Compact Powder here? Sounds similar. How is the Lenor for colors? Are they both heavily scented?

    Bookmark   July 9, 2011 at 10:36PM
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larsi_gw

@ Whirlpool trainee....

Your machine looks just like our Whirlpool Duet (that still say Made in Germany, although some batches are saying Mexico).

Ist Bauknecht eine deutsche Firma??

Lenor Pulverseife hab' ich nie gesehen. Neu?

    Bookmark   July 10, 2011 at 1:24AM
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whirlpool_trainee

No no, I don't stack anything on the washer. It does shake some with heavy loads of denim and other stuff.

Ariel compact is P&G's top detergent over here. Not heavily scented, in my opinion. I don't know about about all the ingredients of Tide. I think Ariel has more enzymes - five versus one or two in Tide (last time I checked). Lenor detergent is brand new. Supposed to infuse laundry with its scent. It's as if Downy would sell a detergent. I haven't found it to be as effective as softener. Won't buy it again.

Yes, the washer is mostly the same as your original Whirlpool Duets - not the newest ones - with some modifications for the European market, like a powerful heater and the ability to do 203F washes. Bauknecht is a German company but was bought by Whirlpool years ago.

Alex

Here is a link that might be useful: for Larsi: Lenor Detergent

    Bookmark   July 10, 2011 at 6:09AM
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livebetter

@cavimum, yep ... I thought so. Tide's response to my question re: brighteners in the Coldwater HE Free.

"Thanks for contacting Tide.

I do apologize for any confusion but Tide Coldwater Free HE does contain optical brighteners. The only detergent that P&G manufactures that does not contain optical brighteners is Cheer Powder.

Hope this helps!"

I didn't think it was possible for that one not to contain brighteners when every other flavor does. Sorry ...

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 11:57AM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - Thank you for following up. I figured there had to be an error on Tide's ingredient list on their web site. We can't trust anything on the internet, can we?! LOL

Cheer's web site is not as informative or user-friendly as Tide's. There doesn't seem to be a F&C cheer HE powder and their liquid 'dark colors' formula is heavily perfumed. Bummer.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 3:33PM
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livebetter

@cavimum, go for the Vaska - it really great.

P&G followed up to tell me the Cheer powder is not HE.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 4:44PM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - I have too many sudsing problems with Vaska. I don't know why. Last week, I washed two bath towels, four hand towels, some washcloths, 1/2 cup Vaska, 'Sensitive' setting for extra rinse, and had to re-rinse before I saw no bubbles. I really like the scent and wish it worked in my home.

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 4:50PM
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livebetter

@cavimum, try it on something other than towels. They tend to be extra suddsy. See how it works on a load of dark clothes.

I assume you meant 1/2 cap not 1/2 cup?

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 7:16PM
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Cavimum

@livebetter - yes, 1/2 capful and not 1/2 cup. ;-)

    Bookmark   July 12, 2011 at 8:06PM
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bonesoda

So i read most of the thread here and i am still at loss here... i don't have that much laundry as i been waiting forever for my only bottle of tide to finish its half way done.

What do most recommend Persil combo for washing or something else? I have stopped using dryer sheets as my gas dryer produces little to no static and clothes come out smelling fine to me.

I was thinking of getting persil universal and persil colour (megaperls) but after reading this thread i am back to square one.

    Bookmark   July 17, 2012 at 6:32PM
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mara_2008

I;ve been using Tide Total Care on our dark clothes for at least 5 years, maybe more. I also turn them inside out when I wash them (also done that for years). And use vinegar in the final rinse. None have faded.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2012 at 5:00PM
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mara_2008

I *really* liked Woolite for Darks when I had a traditional washer. I haven't seen an HE formula. If I do, I'll definitely try it.

    Bookmark   July 20, 2012 at 9:32PM
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sssnetboy26

Am I the only one that dreams of having Persil Color PULVER here in the U.S?

We have the Universal Powder, which I love and have been using for a decade, but I only use it for whites.

Not a huge fan of Megaperls in general, and despise liquids for the most part.

Any ideas of where it might be found, short of a trip to Germany?

    Bookmark   August 25, 2012 at 7:36PM
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whirlpool_trainee

I wonder if German Amazon ships to the US?

    Bookmark   August 25, 2012 at 9:42PM
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sssnetboy26

@ whirlpool trainee

I was wondering the very same thing. I can place items in den Einkaufswagen, but that's as far as I've gotten. I don't know the language well enough to figure it out.

I'd be in heaven, or bankrupt, if I could order from Amazon.de, lol.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2012 at 12:10AM
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