Miele W4842 Cycle Time

sshrivastavaJune 13, 2010

I have a quick tip for those who know how to get into the machine's programming mode. If you turn off the bleach dispenser function, your cycle times will be reduced by 10 minutes. My cycle time on Wrinkle-Free used to be 59 minutes without any other options selected, and recently it dropped to 49 minutes. I couldn't figure out why, but realized that I recently turned off the bleach dispenser since I never use bleach. Turning it back on recovered the missing 10 minutes.

This may explain some odd timing behaviors that some of you may have noticed if you've been playing around in service/programming mode.

suburbanmd: Are you the one with the Kill A Watt meter? I was wondering, would you mind turning on "Automatic Load Control" in the programming mode and see if the heater kicks in on Normal cycle? The service manual states that turning on Automatic Load Control adds additional heat cycles depending on the type of load, amount of water, etc. It also states in the service manual that this mode should only be used at "detergent test facilities" only. I'm not sure why that is, but that qualifying statement made me think that perhaps it activates the heater on Normal and that's why it should not be used outside of test facilities - it will affect the Energy Star performance. Can you confirm whether my speculation is true?

I just ran a Normal cycle on very warm, and the machine was quite warm even after two rinses. I don't know if the heater was on, since I don't have one of those meters. However, if the heater is not being used then the rinse water is definitely the same temp as the main wash. How else would the machine and clothing still be so warm after two cold rinses?

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larsi_gw

stava,

Funny you posted about the clothes being warm after 2 rinses! I was going to post about this too. I wash my darks, colours, sheets and towels using the Normal program on my W4842, water set to warm. Just recently I started setting the water to Very Warm (120F). I too noticed that the clothes, but only sometimes, are very warm still after 2 rinses and the cycle is complete. I would imagine that after 2 cold rinses, the laundry should be cool. I did not think Miele ever did warm or hot rinses! Odd, huh?

It's been about 2 weeks or so, doing my darks, sheets, towels and colours using the Very Warm setting (120F)...and so far nothing looks faded or damaged.

    Bookmark   June 14, 2010 at 1:21AM
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cryptandrus

hi, guys,
Could it be *possible* that the hot and cold water inlet hoses on your machine may be reversed?

I ask because I didn't think these Miele machines did any warm rinsing...

...or is your tap water that warm this time of year?

it is puzzling

    Bookmark   June 14, 2010 at 2:36PM
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suburbanmd

Automatic Load Control is on by default in my W4840. Running with it off is only for "detergent test facilities". Doesn't seem like the machine would work very well if you turned it off.

My loads are often warm at the completion of a hot wash. My hoses aren't reversed. I've never seen the heater on during rinse. If you're nearby during the rinse fill, you should be able to feel which hose it's filling from, by holding each hose and feeling for the water flow.

I had a strange experience with my W4840 last night. It was late and I wanted to get a load of housecleaning rags into the dryer before going to sleep, so I used an cycle-option combination I've never used before -- Extra White, Hot, Extended off and Sensitive off (more typically at least Extended would be on). Well, I saw the heater on during part of the wash, but it shut off before the water was fully heated (could pause the machine and feel that it wasn't hot enough). It's like it thought I really wanted just a warm wash. As usual for a cleaning rag load, I did a quick rinse first, so the rags started out damp. I can see that affecting load sensing, but why would it affect the temperature it heated to?

    Bookmark   June 14, 2010 at 3:58PM
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sshrivastava

This mystery is deepening, since Automatic Load Sensing is OFF by default on the W4840 according to the service manual! I'm reading it right now. It shows default=off in bold, states that it's only for detergent test facilities, but it's on by default on the W4800. When I first entered the programming menu on my W4842, Automatic Load Sensing was turned OFF by default and I had to turn it back on. This is on a brand new machine.

Isn't that interesting?

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 11:07AM
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whirlpool_trainee

It seems strange that Auto Load Control would be switched off. FWIW, this is the description of it taken from Little Giant manual:

"The machine has auto load control.
The water level and the programme
durations are adjusted according to
the load. If the auto load control is
deactivated, the machine will always
carry out the programme sequence
based on a full load."

The very advanced load control is one of the best things about Miele washers. They really suit the entire cycle (duration, water levels, tumble patterns, spin cycles) to the load. On the same cycle, a load of towels will give you more aggressive tumbling, more rinse water and more aggressive spinning than a load of shirts, for example. You sure it was turned off? Strange.

Alex

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 1:00PM
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fahrenheit_451

This mystery is deepening, since Automatic Load Sensing is OFF by default on the W4840 according to the service manual! I'm reading it right now. It shows default=off in bold, states that it's only for detergent test facilities, but it's on by default on the W4800. When I first entered the programming menu on my W4842, Automatic Load Sensing was turned OFF by default and I had to turn it back on. This is on a brand new machine.

You might have stumbled upon why others have had such vibration problems with the W 4842. Our W 4840 came with it "On" and matters have always been good.

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 1:53PM
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suburbanmd

The W4840 programming info for Automatic Load Control, on page 070-36 of the manual, is clearly faulty. It has two "off" entries, not an "on" and an "off".

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 3:25PM
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larsi_gw

SO, SO confused with the W4842 Service/Setting menu. My Automatic Load was set to OFF. When I try and change it, all I get is a "check" mark to the right of OFF. There is no ON. Does the check mean Automatic Load ON or OFF?

Also, I had Miele set my machine to Water+. I played around with too many settings today, and now do not know what is set and what is off!! Does the 'check' symbol mean ON or OFF?

For Water+ it says: Water+ and Water+ (and a check symbol). How do I know if Water+ is activated? That is a 100% must for me!!

Thanks!!

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 5:52PM
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suburbanmd

Here's how it looks on the W4840. Start by scrolling to Automatic Load Control:

Push the button under OK, to get to the first entry, "Off". It isn't checked, so this isn't the setting:

If I wanted to set it to "Off", I would push the button under OK. Instead, I push the button under the downward-facing triangle, to get to the "On" entry. It is checked, so this is the setting:

Push the button under the downward-facing triangle, to get to the "Back" command:

Push the button under OK, to get back to the menu item:

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 8:44PM
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larsi_gw

Thanks suburbanmd!! I wish I could upload pictures to Gardenweb...I can never get it to work. Never.

Anyway, on my W4842....The choices for Automatic Load are OFF and OFF with a check next to OFF. Either they made a mistake and deleted ON, or Both selections are OFF, since they do not want you to use Automatic Load in the W4842 (unlike the W4840). I set my W4842 to OFF, with a check mark next to it. I figure maybe this way it means ON with a check mark.

I did get my Water+ setting situated. I have it to Water+ with a check mark next to it!

I also set my machine to Maxiumum water level, but I do not see any difference in the water levle.

Thanks for all the help, and awesome pictures!!

-Lars

    Bookmark   June 15, 2010 at 9:35PM
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whirlpool_trainee

The service manaul clearly has some faults in it. It lists the heater wattage on the W4800 as 2100 watts, which is clearly not the case. I wonder if there's a way to display the software version running on one's washer? You two might have different versions.

RE: pictures. I use photobucket.com. Just upload your pictures and copy/paste the HTML code displayed under the picture into your message.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 5:40AM
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larsi_gw

Thanks trainee! I'm going to try and add a quick (and not very well taken picture of my W4842 and T9802 set to this post :) I'm surprised we need to use HTML, since the 2 or 3 BMW websites I belong to, require the IMG code from Photobucket to post pictures inside of a posting. Anyway, I'll try now with the HTML. Thanks! Also, do you know if setting the machine to Maxiumum Water Level really does anything? I set it yesterday, and the wash cycles have no more water than before I selected Maximum Water Level. Rinses have A LOT of water, since I always use Water+

Thanks!

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 9:54AM
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suburbanmd

I have a W4840 and the other gentlemen have a W4842, so our software versions must be different.

Larsi, not to quibble, but it's a tautology to say you set it to off with a check mark next to it...the setting with a check mark is what it's set to. If you start with what my second picture shows, what do you see as you repeatedly push the button under the downward-facing triangle?

I upload my pictures to flickr, but it doesn't give you the exact HTML to paste into the message here, the way photobucket does, so you have to put it together yourself. photobucket sounds easier.

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 9:56AM
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larsi_gw

Suburbanmd...A tautology! How snarky of you!!! :)

The software version on my 4842 seems to be QUITE different from your 4840, this is why I used tautologies...since it was hard to describe what I was selecting and setting!

Many options do not have an ON or OFF, some just have an OFF, where you can see the Check mark, some have 2 OFFs and some are not selectable. Perhaps the W4840 gives more freedoms, and engineers controlled more what someone can and cannot do in Service/Settings mode on the newer 4842 models! Don't know really.

Anyway, I have my machine set to Water+, and for me...that is the really only important setting.

Yes Stava...I set my Bleach to OFF, and the cycles are about 10 mins less now. Funny!

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 10:35AM
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suburbanmd

If it's changed so much, then the W4800btd.pdf document is useless to W4842 owners.

Before someone came on here and offered the PDF, I had contacted Miele support through the website

Email Us

and asked for W4840 programming info. They sent me a low-resolution, barely readable image that I now recognize as the W4840 chart from the PDF. They said it was all they had. Maybe you should contact them and see if you can get something barely readable for the W4842 :-)

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 11:25AM
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whirlpool_trainee

Hm, maybe you should just challenge the washer and see if it will adapt to different load types on the same cycle. Maybe start an empty load on Extra White and then run a load of towels after that. I can only speak from experience with the German software but if I select Cotton 95°C with nothing in the drum, after about two minutes of tumbling, the display will change from 1:42 to 1:02 (or something). Clearly an indication that Auto Load Control is enabled. If there are clothes in the washer, it won't cut down the time. The European manuals say this load sensing process takes up to eight minutes - after that, any interruption of the cycle, like opening the door, will cause the washer to default to a full-load profile.

The Max Water setting is only active during the rises, not the wash portion of the cycle - from what I understand.

By the way, have you ever tried the Clean Washer cycle? What does it do? The worst version I have see so far is the cleaning cycle on the Electrolux: just faster tumbling with the usual cup of water in the drum and two rinses. The best one is the LG: high water level with the drum spinning to scrub everything down.

PPS: I think you once inquired about German detergents other than Persil and you mentioned Dash powder. Well, if you ain't into extremely heavily scented detergents - do not get it. Smallest dosage, four rinses in hard water (21 gpg) and softener... and the smell of the detergent is still very heavy. It even made the dryer smell of it!

Alex

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 12:26PM
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larsi_gw

Alex,

The Clean Machine cycle on the W4842 is AWESOME!! 100% better than the Electrolux, and in fact...better than any other machine I have ever seen!

Besides from the water being at Sanitize temperature, you use chlorine Bleach (or you can use Affresh, Smelly Washer, Tide washer cleaner, etc..), the machine aggressively tumbles the super hot sudsy water, BUT the BEST part is the water level! It basically fills the machine more than 1/2 way up the glass! Yes, that much water!!! So when the super hot, sanitized, sudsy water is being aggressively tumbled and sloshed around, it reaches all the way around the rubber door seal, even to the top. The Miele Clean Machine Cycle is truly amazing!!!!

Leaving for Sweden and Germany on Friday...so I plan on making several trips to local Grocery stores (Hemskop, IKA, Konsum, Aldi, Sparmarkt, etc..). I'm going to stock up on Euro detergent. I love a strong smelling detergent, so maybe I will try Dash. Thanks! :)

    Bookmark   June 16, 2010 at 2:03PM
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whirlpool_trainee

Thank you for explaining.

Some tips: Our consumer mag recently tested detergents and dishwasher tablets. Best overall detergents were naturally Persil Megaperls and Ariel compact. BUT Lidl's formil ultra plus did even a "good" job removing light stains at 86°C - Persil and Ariel were only "fair" in that category. Tandil from Aldi did well, too.

Best overall dishwasher detergent was Somat 9. Again, Lidl's W5 All-in-1 and Aldi's Akut komplett / alio Complete were the runners-up.

So, if you'd like to get something that does a really good job at a third the price of the prestige brands you can try the Aldi and Lild brands. Oh, and try the three versions of liquid Sunil klein & kräftig - it smells lovely.

Alex

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 3:56AM
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mrb627

Can someone answer a quick question. Does the Miele dryer reverse tumbling during the drying cycle or only in cool down phase?

MRB

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 11:33AM
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whirlpool_trainee

Both during drying and cool down. The electric version reverses more often during drying, though. The gas version only once the cloths have reached a certain level of dryness.*

*)according to the service manual

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 1:52PM
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larsi_gw

I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE my T9802 Electric Dryer. As Whirpool trainee pointed out (yet another reason to BUY an Electric dryer)...the reverse tumbling occurs during the entire drying cycle. Unlike the gas model and Electrolux...that just do a little reversing towards the end, and by this time so many things are balled up, and/or wrinkled.

With the reverse tumbling on my Miele T9802 Electric dryer, and having Miele set it to Extended Cool Down /Extended Reverse Tumble...my clothes and sheets come out looking ironed. NO wrinkles and so fluffy it is insane. Love it!!!!! :)

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 1:57PM
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mrb627

Thank you for the information. I was curious as I do recall someone claiming that one of the revesing dryers only does so during cool down, by that time, it is too late. If sheets are balled up and wet in the middle, the damage is done.

Malcolm

    Bookmark   June 17, 2010 at 3:25PM
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sshrivastava

larsi,

I don't believe "extended reverse tumble" is a programming option, is it?

    Bookmark   June 20, 2010 at 11:07AM
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sshrivastava

whirlpool_trainee,

I don't suppose you have a service manual for the new W4842 (not the W4840)?

    Bookmark   June 20, 2010 at 11:12AM
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whirlpool_trainee

Nope - only got the one that was sent around by another poster on here.

Alex

    Bookmark   June 20, 2010 at 6:20PM
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jcflys

I can't seem to get into the programming mode on the W4842.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2010 at 10:37PM
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sshrivastava

Then you're not doing it right :P

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 1:45PM
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jcflys

Larsi how did you get the menu to pop up?

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 7:20PM
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larsi_gw

jcflys,
- Press Start and hold.
- Close the door.
- Release the Start pad, as soon as the Start LED flashes.
- Press Start 5 times and at the 5th time, hold until the Start LED flashes
rapidly (5 Hz).
Acknowledgement indicator
Start LED flashes rapidly (5 Hz).
Display: The display shows the service department program mode.
If access is not successful, the control reverts automatically to "select program".

You have to press quickly, otherwise you won't succeed. The machine must be on, door ajar. Hold the start button, close the door, release the start button and press five times QUICKLY and hold. After holding for 1-2 seconds you will see service menu options for water levels, water intake, temperatures, spin speed, etc.

Good Luck!

-Larsi

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 10:49PM
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sshrivastava

jcflys, would you mind posting the default settings before you changed anything?

    Bookmark   June 27, 2010 at 11:45PM
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sshrivastava

Okay really stupid question here... I just bought some very nice Matouk Milagro bath towels and the care instructions say to wash on "Gentle cycle". Would anyone hazard a guess what the equivalent cycle would be on our Miele W48XX machines?

Delicates has a very infrequent tumble, as does Woolens and Handwash. I use Wrinkle-Free for most of my everyday loads. I want to make sure I follow the care label on these expensive items. Any ideas?

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 1:55AM
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sshrivastava

... also meant to ask what the equivalent spin speed would be as well. Thank you!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 1:56AM
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larsi_gw

Sstava,

For towels that say gentle cycle, I would just use Wrinkle Free Warm and set the Spin speed to High or Medium. When when I wash pretty expensive silk shirts, this is what I use...and perfect results.

Delicate Cycle, IMO, does not clean well enough. Maybe it would be fine for the first wash, since your new towels are not dirty/soiled yet. Congrats on the new, beautiful towels!!

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 10:28AM
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suburbanmd

What's the definition of "gentle cycle", anyway? In my previous washer (Whirlpool-made Kenmore agitator TL), the gentle cycle used regular agitation speed, but slow spin speed. Considering that even the regular spin speed was downright slow by FL standards, I don't see the use of this cycle.

    Bookmark   January 7, 2011 at 11:23AM
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sshrivastava

Thanks everyone, I decided to use the Wrinkle-Free cycle on slow spin. It worked well!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2011 at 10:21AM
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sshrivastava

Has anyone noticed that Normal cycle has a much faster RPM and longer tumble pattern than Wrinkle Free or any of the other cycles? Although the heater does not function in this cycle, it does do a fantastic job of cleaning - better job than the Wrinkle Free cycle I've been using lately. There is A LOT of agitation and for longer stretches of time. I'm impressed.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2011 at 7:12PM
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gates1

On Mieles, like many other machines, the Normal cycle is the most energy conserving one, so I would expect that to be a high speed speed on it, no heater boost and in some cases the least amount of water used. Towels that say wash on a gentle cycle are labeled as such because manufactures assume everyone has a agatator washer that does a good job of beating up clothes, Front loaders do not do this in my experience.

    Bookmark   March 8, 2011 at 10:14AM
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sshrivastava

Normal would be a very BAD cycle for items marked for "gentle wash" since the only spin speed available in Normal is the maximum 1,400 rpm spin. This high spin cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, be considered "gentle". In fact, the g-forces generated at 1,400 rpm by a large 8 kg drum can ruin clothes whose fibers have been otherwise weakened by age, bleach, etc.

    Bookmark   March 9, 2011 at 11:22AM
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livebetter

I use normal (warm) all the time for my kids clothes. Very happy with the results! I paused it once and checked what warm was like ... it was WARM (even though no heater is involved). Love it :)

    Bookmark   March 9, 2011 at 2:28PM
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