switching from a Miele W1213 laundry set to W4842 set (super larg

cyberspacerJune 6, 2011

Hi there all laundry freakophilelovers

Considering a w4842 washer and dryer to achieve washing larger loads. my question is that I have become used the machines options in terms of true water temperatures in any cycle and also the range of present cycle times in my W1213 220v set that can achieve hotter and faster high water temps which I have grown to appeciate and enjoy.

For any that have given up a w1213 (or other 220V Miele) and switched to the Americanized w4800 series washer my questions are this?

1. Have you been happy with the cleaning and stain removal achieved by the less powerful 1000watt inboard heater, and also in the cycles the don't utilize it to increase water temps to the true selection,

2. how has clean ability been in the Whitest Whites program and sanitize program that wash at maximum water temps.

3. is the gentleness still there for the hand wash programs and delicates program.

4. Any other observations both pro n con about the machines?

we are considering upgrading for max. load capacity but don't want to compromise performance or reliability. we use all cycles and do many items normally sent out ourselves.

to the W4800 series machines

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I was one of the biggest advocates for Euro-style 220v machines with uber hot washes, but after living with my W4842 for just over a year I can tell you that the temperature issue is much ado about nothing. Looking back on my usage, I realized that I rarely used temps over 160F on my Asko. Since the Miele goes to 158F, which is close enough, I didn't feel that I was making a big compromise by giving up wash temps that I hardly ever used.

Over the course of this past year I have also forced myself into using lower temperatures for most of my laundry. Why? Because I have noticed that those items regularly washed at temps higher than those recommend on the label have started falling apart. Here are some examples: thinning kitchen towels, polo shirts coming apart at the seams or puckering, rough bath towels, color runs in mixed loads, etc. Most of my colored loads were washed at 120F in my Asko for a few years prior to getting the W4842, and I noticed the clothes had started falling apart prior to getting the Miele. I tend to wear clothes for a long time - definitely not a fashionista here.

Now I routinely follow the care label instructions. This has required me to shift my thinking. I used to wash bath towels at 140F and spin at maximum, now I wash them at 105F (Warm) and spin them on medium because the care label says to wash on "gentle". My towels get just as clean as they did before - I have verified this across multiple washes and over the course of a year - and the fibers no longer shrink, so my towels stay soft and fluffy.

In the year I've had the W4842 I've used Sanitize twice. Once when I first got the machine - the manual states you must run a Sanitize cycle prior to first use - and once when my partner generated a load of greasy, grimy shop towels during a car detailing weekend. Those items all came out spotless with a shot of Tide HE w/ Bleach Alternative.

I think high temps represent a security blanket for many of us with Euro-style machines. After much trial and error, it's pretty evident with my fabrics that once I go beyond a certain point, heat stops being my friend and becomes an enemy. Check to see if Miele still offers its 90-day money back guarantee. If so, you have nothing to lose by trying them out and keeping your older Miele in the wings if you don't like the paradigm shift.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2011 at 11:15AM
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I was just reading a thread over on Automaticwasher.org about on board heaters. I've linked it here if you're interested in reading it.

I thought there was some truth to this statement:

"I think there are so many answers to this question. One of them is the tradition of boiling whites. Constructa, the manufacturer that brought the first European frontloader on the market, developed machines that could do a real boil wash. Detergents weren't as good as nowadays so to compensate that whites were boiled."

I'm not saying some loads don't need warmer washes but I really don't see how these boiling/sanitize temps are necessary most of the time. It's not good for fabrics for sure.

I used a Frigidaire front loader for 10 years with no heater and my laundry looked good. I can see how my newer Miele W4842 gets whites a little cleaner with its Extra White setting on HOT but that's about the only real change. I continue to wash most things in warm and sometimes cold. Laundry looks and smells good to me (and I'm really picky).

Here is a link that might be useful: Why do Euro washers have heaters?

    Bookmark   June 6, 2011 at 5:30PM
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FWIW, I need a washer that will reach 140 F, mainly for bedding - sheets, blankets, bedspread. This is the temp that kills dust mites. This was my main reason for narrowing my choices to a washer with an internal heater - allergies.

    Bookmark   June 6, 2011 at 5:42PM
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@ Cavimum

Can you use lower temperatures and a natural disinfectant such as tea tree oil or pine oil? I'm curious if that would work.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2011 at 9:47PM
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@sshrivastava - To kill dust mites? I doubt it. The water temps will kill the little critters. I'll take that over chemicals any day. :o)

    Bookmark   June 8, 2011 at 10:31PM
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Thanks for the useful information. Good friends beat me to the punch and just had their W4842/T9802 installed today. They look a run more solidly/quietly that the 1st generation machines. One question though.

Prewash was renamed to HEAVY SOIL some time ago, but now on my friends' set, PREWASH is once again a labeled option. The EXTENDED option but read as such but also has underneath it 'Heavy Soil.' However, the detergent compartments still read 'Main Wash' and "Heavy Soil'. It seems like a TYPO on the control panel like the 'Heavy Soil' subtitle should have been printed underneath PREWASH not EXTENDED. Any owners know if it is indeed a typo or if perhaps the machines now operate differently with these options?

Here is a picture of the new control panel on page 7 of the users manual:

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 2:15AM
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EXTENDED adds approx. thirty minutes to the wash cycle, based on my own experience. I haven't used the PRE WASH, because I don't quite understand what it's about and our laundry doesn't really need it, but it does something different.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 9:02AM
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I have used both and they are different. This is from my manual:

Heavy Soil
For heavily soiled laundry or stubborn dried on stains. A pre-wash takes place and the wash time for the main wash is extended.

For laundry with normal to heavy soiling or stains. The main wash cycle time for the wash program is extended.

Options selection
(Extended, Heavy Soil)
Select for:
- For light to normal soiled items without stains use a wash program without an option.
- For normal to heavily soiled items with stains wash with the "Extended" option.
- For heavily soiled items use a wash program with the "Heavy Soil" option and "Extended".
- Items with lager soiling, e.g. dust, sand, use a program with the option "Heavy Soil".

Miele Canada told me the new Miele Intelliq machines coming out this year will be relabelled to say prewash not heavy soil but the function will be exactly the same.

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele W4842 manual

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 10:12AM
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@ cavium, I meant to mention ... I finally made it down to the "high end" linen retailer I've been posting about to purchase new sheets for my beds. I had a great conversation with them yesterday and learned a few new things.

We were discussing washing temps for white linens. She told me that extreme cold will also kill dust mites so they recommend people seal their sheets in a bag and freeze them for 24 hours. After that, launder as usual in warm water with oxygen bleach. She said you can wash in hot/sanitize but it will wear the fabric faster.

I don't have dust mite issues here but I thought that was an interesting piece of advice.

For what my new Egyptian cotton woven in Italy sheets cost me (4 sets), I'll be taking care of them the best way possible. She said they are "heirloom" fabric - if taken care of well they will last many many years and (in fact) get better with age.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 10:31AM
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@livebetter - I'll have to research the freezing and then see if I can carve space out of the freezer. There goes the dog's food (raw). LOL Dust mites don't live in dry, very low humidity either, but our climate is not cooperative with that.

Hot water is hard on sheets, but I go to BB&B and use those 20% coupons, and get fairly decent stuff. It's amazing how many years the sheets last.

A long time ago, we had some of the old-fashioned percale Wamsutta sheets - the ones with the scalloped embroidery on the hems. Vermont Country Store was the last place you could find them. They were heavenly.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 10:48AM
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@ cavimum

Just so you know, tea tree oil and pine oil are not synthetic chemicals. They are natural disinfectants that can be used safely in your laundry. Pure pine oil is not the same as Pine Sol or those other cleansers. For those who want to disinfect their laundry at low temperatures without using bleach, pine oil is most often recommended.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 11:42AM
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'stava - You're right - they are natural products. I am allergic to pine (among a gazillion other things-ack!) and haven't had PineSol in the house for 30 years.
I love my HOT water, like some of the people here love their scents in laundry. ;o)

OT - did you know that tea tree oil will zap zits?

    Bookmark   June 9, 2011 at 11:52AM
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live better. what I meant to say is that there is now a prewash button and also a extended/heavy soil button on the latest machine. so what does extended/heavy soil do when the detergent drawer has a compartment for main wash and one for heavy soil. does the machine take the detergent from the heavy soil compartment and runs an extended cycle. this would mean that selecting prewash is really a pre rinse with no added detergent.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2011 at 3:40AM
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No. I would assume the extra compartment is for the prewash (it always is). You use 1/4 recommended detergent in the prewash (or heavy soil) compartment to do a short "prewash" before the main wash takes place.

Miele is messing around with what it's called but it is a PREWASH function.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2011 at 10:15AM
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This is hilarious to me... I've never heard of a product changing in such a significant way without a change to the model number. Now some people have W4842s with a Heavy Soil button, others with a Pre-Wash button. The change is silly, unnecessary and should have waited for their next model revision. Now the change is causing confusion.

The buttons still function the same. The "Heavy Soil" detergent compartment is for the pre-wash. Apparently Miele just can't decide what it wants to call anything.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2011 at 10:22AM
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I was specifically told by Miele Canada that the labelling change would not happen until the new IntelliQ machines launch. I'm curious why this machine in the US seems "messed up". I'm curious what the manual for this particular machine says ... it would have to call the buttons by their labelled names?

    Bookmark   June 10, 2011 at 10:27AM
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The word Prewash says it all. Prewash ÃÂ is pretty self explanatory versus Heavy Soil. In this case I think Miele (in their efforts to make their product easy to use/understand) meant to sub-label the Prewash button with Heavy Soil to make sense out of this wash option and the Heavy Soil detergent compartment (which is still labeled Heavy Soil), and someone in their development team accidentally sub-labeled the Extended button instead. ÃÂ I was playing around with my friends' W4842 and tested the Prewash button and it does exactly that - a prewash that takes the detergent from the Heavy Soil detergent compartment.ÃÂ

Not a major issue but I will probably wait until Miele prints their control panels correctly before I hunker down the big bucks. Suppose it is my retentiveness. Now if only Miele would relabel "Sensitive" to "Extra Rinse."

    Bookmark   June 12, 2011 at 4:20AM
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Have we confirmed that the control panels out in the wild actually say the same thing? So far we are basing all of this on what appears in the user manual. However, the photo on Miele's web site of the W4842 control panel still shows the "old" one with Heavy Soil instead of Pre-Wash.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2011 at 11:16AM
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My friend's machines were JUST delivered this week and the control panel matches the graphic in the user's manual.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2011 at 4:12PM
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