Bryant/Carrier Heat Pump Quotes

krpOctober 26, 2010

Hello - I am in the midst of an attic renovation to a small townhouse/condo in Washington, DC. My home is approx 1000SF (2 stories + attic loft). The existing airhandler/coil in the attic is being replaced with a smaller one in the same location in the attic. Below are 2 quotes from the same vendor received via my general contractor. I feel these quotes are extremely high. Please advise. Thanks so much for your help.

Bryant - $13,895 less $600 Rebate:

Bryant model #285BNA030 2� Ton EVOLUTION PURON Heat Pump with matching FE4ANF003(15KW) EVOLUTION variable speed fan coil and model #SYSTXBBUID01-B EVOLTUION control. We will install new EM pan with all safeties. 15.50 SEER, 12.50 EER, 8.50, 8.50 HSPF.

Carrier - $14,995 (no rebate mentioned)

Carrier model #25HPA6 2� Ton PURON Heat Pump with matching FE4ANF003 (15KW) Infinity variable speed fan coil and model #SYSTXBBUID01-B Infinity control. We will install new EM pan with all safeties. 15.50 SEER, 12.50 EER, 8.50, 8.50 HSPF.

In both cases, the new fan coil will be moved forward in attic as far as possible and the duct in the attic will be redesigned for the changes that are being made to the house. The duct (return and supply) lay out, location, and size will be determined with the contractor. We will be reusing existing line set, power wiring, and control wiring.

Thanks again for your advice.

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tigerdunes

krp

for such premium equipment along with a premium price, I find the performance/eff numbers rather mediocre.

and the price, well it's simply over the top and absurd.

of course, I can't see the job or understand the full scope of work.

It should be noted the Bryant condenser is 2 1/2 ton and the Carrier a two ton. That's a big deal and difference.

Is your condo a standalone, exterior, or interior unit?

what size HVAC are you replacing and how did it perform?

the idea of 15KW of backup heat again seems questionable.

I certainly would look at alternatives and I can make a couple of suggestions if you are interested.

these are my specs for new HP systems.

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

I would look at Trane/AmStd,Rheem,Carrier/Bryant.

IMO

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 8:43AM
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krp

Tiger Dunes - Thanks so much for your feedback!

My condo is an end unit. Also I have 2 floors in my unit + attic and, below me, is another unit with 2 floors. I am replacing a York heatpump (about 7 yrs old) and ancient fan coil that may have been there since the condo was built in the 1970s? Sorry, I should know more about what i have now - but I do not.

Yes, I would very much appreciate your suggestions. Also, do you know of a dealer in the Washington metro area that you would recommend? The minimum specs you provided are very helpful.

Thanks again for getting me on track!

k

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 9:35AM
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neohioheatpump

what is the eff. of your old 7 year old heatpump? Is it working ok?

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 9:49AM
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tigerdunes

krp

It would be helpful if you could get the info from the dataplate of outside condenser.

perhaps my forum friend Ryan will see this thread. He knows the area well and good dealers.

There is another forum member who is a dealer in your area. his forum name is "maryland irisman" and his email address is listed in his profile. you might think about giving him a shout. I believe he covers DC and if not he could make some dealer referrals.

I have to admit the pricing you received is really unbelievable. you need to get another dealer involved to really make pricing comparisons. I will come back to you about some suggestions that might not be as frisky and still give you a nice system.

IMO

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 9:57AM
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krp

Thanks TigerDunes!!! I am living temporarily in another location while some of the major construction takes place. I will be heading back tomorrow to check on things so I will look up the York info then.

I will get in touch with maryland irisman and Ryan hopefully and get some referrals which I clearly need.

The contractor's original budget for HVAC was $8500 so I was really stunned when I received these estimates. I will definitely get more bids.

Thanks so much your helpful suggestions!

k

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 10:10AM
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krp

Neohioheatpump - Thanks for your help!

The existing York heat pump is working ok. In the winter we have to push it to keep the house comfortable. The first floor is significantly cooler than the second so we adjust the temperature as we move around. Our windows are a bit drafty (they are original to home 1970). We got new insulated doors last year which hopefully will help.

I believe the York is the old technology as are the indoor components which is why we are replacing entire system.

Thanks so much.

k

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 10:27AM
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neohioheatpump

I was just thinking that a 7 year old heatpump is probably 12 seer maybe a bit higher. If its working good you probably wouldn't see a huge savings in money for the energy with the new one. I"m assuming your inside coil is 7 years old also but your air-handler is probably very old.

You could spend the HVAC money on new efficient windows and forgoe the HVAC upgrade. That would make a good difference in comfort. Or you could insulate your attic.

Either or both those upgrades make a noticable difference.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 10:35AM
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ryanhughes

The equipment quoted is good equipment, but the price is too high. $8500 is perfectly reasonable even including ductwork changes. I am not surprised by the pricing, however. Many DC row houses (although you mention a 70s town house which may be different than what I am envisioning) have poor access to the unit, and being in an attic and requiring ductwork modification doesn't help the case. Is a crane required for this job to raise the heat pump on the roof? That will also add to the cost. Still yet, $13k is ridiculously high for a replacement with some ductwork.

Feel free to send me an email in my profile and we can talk about companies.

As tiger said, the 25HPA6 must be a 3 ton unit -- wouldn't make sense to downsize. 2.5 tons seems a bit excessive for 1000 sqft and so I definitely wouldn't want to see a 3 ton.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 11:36AM
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krp

Ryan - Thanks so much! The heat pump actually sits on ground level - so no hoisting is needed. They are going to attempt to install the airhandler/coil in the corner of attic close to where the roof line meets the floor - so a small space to work in but the attic is completely opened up right now. I am about to send you an email. Thanks so much!!! k

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 12:21PM
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krp

Ryan - Sorry, I did not see a link to an email on your profile page. Is there a trick to that or another way to get in touch. Thanks k

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 12:28PM
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goterps74

KRP. I am in the same process as you. I live in Montgomery County and found a very good DC area HVAC contractor who seem to be both knowledgable and reasonable

McCrea Heating and Air

(301) 423-6623

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 2:56PM
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ryanhughes

Sorry, I thought I had my email posted in my profile. There is a link in there now.

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 3:27PM
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krp

GoTerps - Thanks so much for your recommendation. Much appreciated!!! I will give them a call. Good luck with your project. Thanks again. k

    Bookmark   October 26, 2010 at 5:25PM
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