Help Me Plan Rough-in for New Miele Washer Dryer

enduringMay 27, 2013

I am remodeling my bathroom and a new Miele stacked W/D will go into the corner of an intersection of 2 load bearing walls. This is on the main floor over an unfinished basement with access to the joist. I want to provide a stable environment for the set.

I am planning to build a 2 layer plywood platform with "mass loaded vinyl" sandwiched in between. This was suggested by a member on the bathroom forum. He suggested to run a drain through this platform with a tray on top of the plywood platform to protect the living area from potential flooding. I can do this easy enough. I imagine this would raise the set about 2", at the most, from the floor level.

I found a appliance flood tray that is folded into place and is the perfect size of 24x24"

One would drill a hole in the pan and hook the emergency flood drain through this hole. I would have it run to a location and terminate several inches above a basement floor drain. This way I won't need a P trap that could potentially dry out, and allow sewer gases to enter the house.

I would like a turn off valve to manage my water supply to the washer. I do not want a flood if the water hoses should break. I have purchased, for this future install, a set of "Floodchek" hoses. And I would like to have a box with an on/off valve to the hot/cold water. I have seen Symmons valves and that looks great. It has an area for the waste water to drain as well.

I plan to have access to the shut off valve behind some shelving that will be to the right of the stacked W/D. I plan to have the shelving area easily dismantled to access the utilities to the W/D. I also plan to run my dryer vent out this area to the right, so I can access it for cleaning. I want all my supply lines, electrical, and venting to the right of the stack and located in the back of my planned shelving area.

Questions include:
1) should I have my shut off valve outfitted with one of those systems that automatically turn off the valves if there is a sensed leak?

2) do people usually just manually turn off and on the valve to the water hoses as needed when they do laundry? I have never done this in all my years, but I am seeing some wisdom in this precaution. Especially when the W/D is in the living area of the house, as this W/D will now be located.

3) has anyone used these special strong hoses called "Floodchek" for their hot/cold intakes?

4) do you recommend a specific dryer venting system. I was thinking of getting a metal wall box that the 4" duct can fit through. I have smooth 4" ducting in the joist space already to go for the dryer. The wall this set will be backed into will be a 6" stud wall. My plan will be dropping the dryer ducting down to the joist space below the bathroom and out to the out side. This is in an unfinished basement and easily accessible. I believe the total run will be 8.5' horizontal + 4' vertical+ 45 degree turns x 2.

With all this information, is there something I am missing? Or is there recommendations for something different? Should I post this in another forum?

Thanks very much if you've gotten this far in this post ;) and I hope to get your feedback :)

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A floor plan would be worth a thousand words.

Install an easily accessible manual shut-off valve such as this (see link below).

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   May 31, 2013 at 2:57PM
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I'm drawn to the Miele Washer & Dryer but my husband is skeptical. Why did you decide on them?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2013 at 5:38PM
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1) Only use a water flow termination shut off valve if you don't turn off your water supply to the washer (and now some dryers).

2) My mother, father and myself have always turned on and off the water supply manually to prevent big accidents and the washer & dryer are NEVER left running unattended (a flood can happen or a fire can break out). I have the on/off valve pictured.

3) I personally have not used the "FloodChek" brand but they do seem like they make sense.
I use braided stainless steel hoses.
What ever you use it helps if you can see them and have easy access to them to visually inspect them for damage.

4) The "dryerbox" is a good brand for recessed dryer venting solutions. Check the link out for the "dryerbox".

Here is a link that might be useful: The dryerbox

    Bookmark   July 4, 2013 at 1:57AM
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Personally, I have just the Outlet Box with Valves installed Flush to the wall, with the top of the box 2" below the top of the Washing machine. Aesthetically, it hides all that - and if I really needed to...I would just reach in and turn the 1/4 to shut it off.

However, I don't follow the practice on closing the valves when not in use. I don't do this for the sinks, fridges or toilets and I've yet to have a issue.

IMO, the biggest *flood* you can get is with built in icemakers.
That is why I do manual ice and the last 3 fridges I haved owned, I have specically chosen non-icemaker models.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2013 at 6:49PM
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enduring, I have been exactly where you are with a first floor Miele install a few years ago. I was not quite as detailed as you, but darn close. I think I can help with real world feedback (vs so much guessing).

I did install a 1" thick piece of plywood as an additional floor modification for the units (side by side not stacked). No matter how much you prepare for vibration you have to learn to REALLY balance your machine. It is more than using a level and very much iterative with trial and error on adjusting, in small increments, the leveling feet by feeling them for vibration, adjusting and repeating. Tedious and boring, but worth it. The anti vibration pads, KE Shakeaway in my case, made a noticeable difference too and are highly recommended.

I did not install a drain pan. My first question is with such a large pan, will your washer feet be resting on it? I'm not sure that is a good design. Can it hold the machine? Is it solid and stable enough? Level?

Floodcheck hoses are ESSENTIAL. WIthout this is as the foundation for your redundant leak prevention design, you are "hosed" (pun intended!). Good for you. All others hoses are junk and asking for trouble.

Pan or not, manual shut-off or not, you really need automatic leak detection. You forget that one time and... Or if you have some issue do you really want that pan managing hundreds of gallons of water for hours and hours while you are away? I originally installed a Watts Intelliflow. Piece of junk died in a year. Plus it uses non standard connectors so I couldn't just take it off and put on a manual valve without soldering or a plumber. I replaced it with the Floodstop unit. It is much better, but still has problems. Cheap plastic gears wore out and had the unit needed to function, my cold water shut off gear was damaged and I would have been screwed, because cold would not have shut off. I replaced the gears no charge via the vendor and a newer design seems to do the trick. There is no solid quality vendor on this type of thing, but again, Watts was awful and cheap. Floodstop much better.

Any way, the key is layers of redundancy. Good hoses, pan, leak detection... anything and everything you can do to back up any possible scenario of failure. Vibration is tricky, and even with a solid floor balancing is essential. Good luck! (edited for many sloppy typos!)

P.S. chefwong, ice makers are the #1 cause of water leak related insurance claims, washing machine hoses #2. The braided hoses to your faucets and toilets can fail after a while too (just cheap runner inside the braiding, the braiding does little), so I replace mine every five years. It is so easy to do, why not? Gee, you'd think we should all get lower insurance rates, we are all so careful! :-)

This post was edited by deke on Mon, Jul 8, 13 at 17:04

    Bookmark   July 7, 2013 at 12:54PM
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Thanks all for posting. I have stalled out on the remodel but will be back in action this next week when my carpenter can start. I have a new carpenter coming to appraise the progress of the job and start next week. Long story, but this new carpenter is actually the one I wanted originally but not unavailable so went with someone else (who didn't work out).

Here is a plan view as asked for, and an elevation. The two walls that create the corner where the W/D sit are both load bearing walls.

The blue square in upper left corner is the Miele W/D stack. The gray square to the right of W/D is the cabinetry and where I plan to access the shut off valve and dryer venting. These utilities will be in the back wall accessible through the shelving inside the cabinet:

This elevation shows cabinets to the right of the W/D and will have the shut off valve inside the cabinet, reachable through the shelving. This elevation rendition is not current. Instead, I plan to have doors above counter height, and have the below counter area open, without a door:

Shut off Valve: I have a manual shut off valve with the drain hole (all in one box) mounted by the plumber. This will be easily accessible from the side of the set, inside the cabinet.

Hoses: I have the Floodchek hoses on site and ready for installation.

Overflow Pan: I was thinking of a overflow pan such as this one I have linked below. It has a 5 gal capacity and has a 24x24 outside dimension.

Anti-Vibration: I still have not made a platform for the set but was thinking of 2 plywood 3/4" sheets with a sandwiched mass loaded vinyl sheet in between as recommended by Mongoct on the bathroom forum. Otherwise the anti-vibration feet that Deke mentions might work and a lot less trouble. I have see some anti-vibration feet on the Grainger web site for heavy machinery. I might try those. Here is a link:

Dryer Venting: I have been planning to bring it out the right side of the set, and accessible in the back of the cabinet, for cleaning ease. I may not be able to place it in the wall as the studs are in the way of the joist space for the ducting. If I can have the carpenter frame out the stud wall for a dryer vent I will. I want ridged venting, and have it accessible to the side of the dryer (not behind the dryer). If this can't be done within the wall space, I will have to put a hole in the floor in front of the wall for the venting, concealing it behind the cabinet. though this will make it vulnerable to bumping with the laundry basket that I plan to keep in the lower area below the counter.

My machines are at the warehouse waiting.

Any comments or recommendations are welcome!

Thanks again :)

Here is a link that might be useful: slide-n-fold pan

    Bookmark   July 10, 2013 at 7:21AM
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Talked to Miele tech department today. I don't have the set installed yet because the BR isn't ready.

Tech said platform of 1.25" thick would be enough. No drain needed as the set shuts down if a leak in the machine. That doesn't address if I get a leak in the hose though. Tech said the hoses are very durable hoses. Tech reassured me that my floor and placement of W/D will be fine.

    Bookmark   July 19, 2013 at 7:19PM
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