Lennox XC17 vs Trane XR15

echopaulSeptember 30, 2011

I am in need of some advice. I was recently quoted on two central air systems. One being a Trane xr 15 with a hyperion airhandler going for 11,500. The other is a Lennox xc17 signature series quoted at 10,250 after all the rebates and discounts. I should also mention that both prices include duct work and the Lennox contracter includes the electrical work where as the trane dealer does not. That would be an additional 800 to wire up the trane units. So this is where I'm at and I was leaning more towards the lennox because of the generous discount that they offer compared with trane who only offer 100 on the xr15. So are both of these two systems good or is one better than the other when it comes to quality or durability. It's a lot of money to spend so I was hoping I could get some guidance on this issue.

Thanks,

Paul

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tigerdunes

heat pumps or AC condensers?

What mdl air handlers? Makes a difference.

Your location please.

Post back.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 30, 2011 at 6:37PM
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echopaul

Both units are ac condensors. The trane airhandler is the hyperion xl variable speed model tam7aob30h and the lennox is the dave signature collection 024/030.
Location is in the northeast which gets a lot of humidity in the summer months. Hope this helps.
Thanks again.
Undecided.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2011 at 7:18PM
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neohioheatpump

those are some high prices in my opinion. You may want to get more estimates.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 7:35AM
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tigerdunes

Paul

What size condenser?

What is your location?

I see nothing wrong with either system and while I normally prefer Trane, in your case and taking into consideration this is a straight AC system, I would go with the Lennox.

However if you heat with either oil or propane fuel source, then based on your electric rate, I might upgrade to a heat pump. Then my recommendation would change.

I agree with neohio. Prices seem very frisky.

Post back.

IMO

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 9:24AM
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echopaul

I received five quotes. Three from trane which were all in the range of 10 to 12 thousand depending on the ac condensors. xr15 to xi20, 16 seer and up
The other two were from goodman and lennox. The goodman dealer quoted me on a 13 seer system with duct work for 7900. The lennox dealer as I mentioned earlier is on a xc17 for 10250.
The condensers quotes are for 2.5 tons. I have oil heat and the location is CT. I guess these are the current prices for central air in CT.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 10:00AM
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tigerdunes

Paul

What do you pay for fuel oil?

What do you pay for electric?

I'll run some comparison fuel costs if you like.

Post back.

IMO

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 10:20AM
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echopaul

Oil is 3.59 a gallon and electric is 603.00KWH x 0.109000.
Inaddition to oil, I have a wood burning stove that offsets the home heating cost from oil.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 10:44AM
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neohioheatpump

If you have oil heat, you should definitely be getting a heatpump to handle to heating for the majority of the cold weather you get. When it gets extra cold you would run the oil. I can't think of a reason to continue relying on oil for all of your heating.

You can call some independent installers who have access to good brands like American-Std, Bryant, Luxaire-Coleman, and others to get a much better price. When you call dealers from the manufacturers websites your going to get high pricing.

Maybe I"m misuderstanding. Do you currently have ductwork? If you don't, and these prices include ductwork then its a whole different story. Prices might not be as bad. You definitely want a heatpump though. Highest efficiency single stage.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 10:55AM
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echopaul

I think I did mention this earlier, but all the quotes I received did include duct work because I have oil heat and not forced hot air. The thing that I didn't know was that dealers manufactures websites would be higher although, the lennox dealer did quote me on a trane system which was the same price that I received from a trane dealer. Go figure. I do have a wood burning stove that gives off a lot of heat which helps a great deal with the oil comsumption so I'm not really concerned with heating for now anyway.
But just want to thank everyone on their posts and I appreciate their input on this issue.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 11:25AM
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tigerdunes

Paul

As promised, here are the comparison numbers using your rates, a COP of 2.7 for the HP which is conservative and an 82% eff on your oil fuel boiler.

Cost per 100,000 btu of useable heat
Electric baseboard: $2.90
Heat pump: $1.19
Oil: $3.17

Fir me, this is a no brainer going to a HP system. Add at a minimum a 7 1/2 KW heat strip and this will stretch the use of a HP system VS the more expensive oil fuel source. Save the oil fuel boiler for the cold days.

Of course, your electric panel will need to be evaluated for the strip heat.

Anyway, this gives you more information to evaluate.

Keep in mind though that use of the HP is putting money in your pocket as long as it meets your comfort needs.

IMO

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 11:33AM
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neohioheatpump

You really should upgrade to a heatpump. It doesn't cost much more than the regular A/C. I understand you have a wood burner but what about when its not that cold outside, do you really want to get the wood burner going for these situations? The heatpump handles that perfectly and efficiently.

How much did you spend on oil last year? You can cut that back alot with the heatpump.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 12:13PM
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echopaul

Thanks again all! This is another option I didn't think of. I will definitely take this into consideration.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2011 at 12:25PM
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tigerdunes

Paul

A little HP info.

for a new HP system

You should replace everything both inside air handler and outside condenser.

these are the minimum specs you should be looking for.
both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset
10 yr warranty on parts and compressor

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

My personal recommendation is Trane/AmStd or Rudd/Rheem.

Based on your location and winter climate, I would not purchase a new system that did not have electronic demand defrost.

IMO

    Bookmark   October 2, 2011 at 7:55AM
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tigerdunes

Paul

I really think this is a no brainer.

You would have a quick payback on the cost difference between a straight high eff AC system VS a straight high eff HP system.

If you do elect to go HP route, it's important that system has electronic demand defrost feature. Only a few brands do.

IMO
Good Luck!

    Bookmark   October 3, 2011 at 10:01AM
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SkyHeating

I know this has been heavily discussed but the Heat Pump will be a much better solution for your home especially with the air handler and the existing oil heat. The Trane TAM7 is incredibly quiet air handler. Both brands are towards the better end of the scale and take what I say with a grain of salt because I am a Trane dealer but I also deal with Lennox a lot for replacement parts...
Trane is much easier to get parts for, lennox is a mess IMHO. The Trane dealers go through extensive amounts of training vs Lennox which does continuing education but not as much once again just my opinion.

You really need to concentrate on what dealer did load calculations and showed you how they sized the ductwork and shows you how they startup your system. If both systems are 16 SEER and one is started up outside of spec you just bought a 13 or 14 SEER unit so the installation company is the first thing to select then look at the equipment.

    Bookmark   October 3, 2011 at 3:47PM
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weedmeister

If I understand it, you do NOT have existing ducts and are using oil. As in a boiler and hydronic heat (radiators)?

    Bookmark   October 3, 2011 at 3:57PM
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echopaul

Yes I have a boiler with base board radiators and no duct work. Just want to thank everyone for their input on this issue.

    Bookmark   October 3, 2011 at 6:14PM
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