Is this 3-ton Rheem Classic a/c system well matched?

hamconsultingSeptember 6, 2012

I'm still looking for a reasonably priced a/c system with gas furnace to install.

Tiger mentioned a Rheem Classic Gas Furnace that satisfies my heating needs better than anything else I've looked at and it has a 3-ton blower for the a/c. This got me thinking about a complete Rheem system.

Unfortunately, I still don't know how to match systems well. Is this a well matched Rheem system:

- Rheem Classic RAPM-036JAZ condenser, 3-ton, single-stage

- Rheem Classic Gas Furnace RGPT-05EBMKR, 80% AFUE, 50K BTU, 1200 CFM High Efficiency X-13 Blower

- Rheem N-Coil RCFL-HM3617CC

- Rheem Thermostat 300-Series RHC-TST301GESS

I'm not sure if this system gives me the best possible SEER nor what SEER it gives me. I have it pegged at 14.5 SEER, but not sure.

According to my own Manual J load calculation, my cooling needs are around 35.5K BTUs and my heating needs are around 32K BTUs for my 1430 sqft home in Los Angeles (insulation is R25 in attic and R15 in walls)

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tigerdunes

Ham

Ask dealer to provide the AHRI matching number. Acceding to my research, the number is 4935679. Dealer should verify though. I show this with a 14.5 SEER.

The system is very comparable to the AnStd-may be better if you are sized correctly especially on heating. This furnace mdl gives you about
41KBTUs output.

I can't recall but you should consider a good whole house air filter cabinet. Now is the time.

One other thought on the Rheem. You get better diagnostics with JEZ suffix on the AC condenser. Cost difference should be relatively inconsequential. Ask for it if you select the system.

How does pricing compare with AmStd?

IMO

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 7:50AM
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hamconsulting

I'm in the process of scheduling an appointment with Rheem dealer for this system. I'll look at other model.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 10:00AM
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tigerdunes

Ham

On AC condenser model, it is same. The JEZ suffix over the JAZ has better diagnostics. Just don't want to confuse the issue.

Would be interested in the pricing of the system versus AmStd.

Pay attention about filter cabinet.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 10:08AM
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hamconsulting

Thanks. All of the dealers are not quoting me individual prices on the equipment. They are all quoting total price including installation.

Just to give me an idea on price, I've found online prices for the Rheem equipment that I selected above from http://www.expressoverstock.com. It was 1385 for condenser, 939 for furnace, 546 for coil, and 135 for stat = 3000 total.

However, I'm not looking to buy separately and then hire someone to do the work.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 10:56AM
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tigerdunes

No, I am interested in a complete installed dealer price on both Rheem and AmStd. You can just indicate which is more expensive and by how much.

Both systems very comparable.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 11:40AM
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hamconsulting

The first quote that I got on Am Std was for $9425 and the dealer did not specify model numbers even after I asked. The Am Std dealer just gave me a generic quote for a 3.5 ton 15 SEER a/c system with an 80K BTU gas furnace. Permits and new plenum supply and return. Re-use ducts.

Today, I got a quote from a certified Trane dealer for $7000. Flush and re-use existing lineset. Reuse ducts. Does not carry or install the XT80 gas furnace that I wanted. Includes $500 to install light in attic and convert connections from upright to horizontal. System is:
- XR13 13-SEER 3-ton condenser,
- unspecified Trane coil
- XR80 gas furnace 80% 80K BTUs
- unspecified thermostat
- $300 extra for 5" media filter
- $600 extra for 10-year Trane parts and labor warranty
- includes 2-years labor warranty
- includes permit and title 24 for checking refrigerant levels
- $150 extra charge to fix any existing ducts that might be leaking

I'm waiting for the Rheem dealer to schedule a visit. I did notice that Rheem still uses the copper tubing in the coil with aluminum fins and only has a 5-year parts warranty. All dealers are telling me they now use the all aluminum coils which resist corrosion better and have a 10-year parts warranty. Other than that, the Rheem system looks like a better fit and I'm waiting to schedule a visit.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 11:17PM
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hamconsulting

Oh wait, the Trane quote does specify the thermostat as CONT600 which is the Trane XL600 which lacks the humidity control.

I'm going to ask the Trane dealer to change the thermostat to the XL803, change the gas furnace to the 60K BTU instead of the 80K BTU, and provide me with a coil model number.

This is turning out a lot harder than I thought. I can't even get the components that I want.

    Bookmark   September 6, 2012 at 11:35PM
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hamconsulting

I actually asked for the ARI/AHRI reference number, so I can look it up on the web site.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 12:25AM
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hamconsulting

I just contacted another Rheem certified dealer about a quote for this system:

� Rheem Prestige RAPM-036JEZ condenser, 3-ton, single-stage
� Rheem Classic Gas Furnace RGPT-05EBMKR, 80% AFUE, 50K BTU, 1200 CFM High Efficiency X-13 Blower
� Rheem N-Coil RCFL-HM3617CC
� Rheem Thermostat 300-Series RHC-TST301GESS

I hope to get a quote soon. My existing Fraser-Jonhston condenser is only 27" wide and I realized that I don't have much more room than 32" inches in that outside location.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 1:23AM
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tigerdunes

Ham

I was unaware there may be dimension issues on the size of your condenser. I am attaching link that provides specs. You should review. Keep in mind, you will require access clearance for service of the unit when needed plus overhead clearance for discharge air.

The AS has a smaller footprint.

Rheem p.32
http://www.rheem.com/documents/rapm-az-specification-sheets

AmStd Allegiance 13
http://www.americanstandardair.com/products/pages/productdetail.aspx?prod=acon04

IMO

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 7:06AM
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tigerdunes

The Trane quote is absurdly high and the wrong furnace. You would want the XT80 in the 60K size.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 8:39AM
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hamconsulting

I've asked again for XT80 furnace. Originally, dealer said they don't carry xt80 and don't install. I know I want the high efficiency blower on xt80 60kbtu.

I'm checking sizes on outside condenser units. Only Trane dealer mentioned that new outside unit would be sticking out more towards pool, but not necessarily a code violation.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 10:45AM
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tigerdunes

Ham

AmStd Allegiance 13 and Trane XR13 3 ton AC condensers are basically same condenser and have identical dimensional specs.

33 x 33 x 30

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 10:54AM
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PRO
CJ Mechanical of North jersey llc.

I am a Rheem dealer and what you have is a 14.5 seer setup with theequipment setup. All tho im from nj and a man J was performed. Wow 3 tons for 1400 sq . I would double check.plus all that insulation you have. around here 92* outside and 75* inside at most 2 tons. You better get used to the noise and air movement for 3 tons.
Allso rheem is 10 yrs just like everyone else.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 4:29PM
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tigerdunes

Previous poster should read the prior thread..

OP lives in Ca, going down in size from a 75 K 80% furnace and 3 1/2 ton AC condenser.

Noise should not be a factor with smaller blower and X-13 blower mtr.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 4:40PM
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hamconsulting

coolmen...thanks for confirming the seer for me.

I know what you are saying, but I've had 5 dealers come to my house and propose a quote. Every single one of them wants either a 3.5 or 4.0 ton a/c compressor and 80K BTU gas furnace.

I basically told everyone that I wanted to downsize, but one dealer still gave me a quote for a 3.5 ton a/c system and 80K BTU gas furnace.

Another guy did a load calculation after I told him I didn't want a 3.5 ton system and agreed that 3 tons was good for the a/c.

The last guy showed me his iPad app and entered some information like wall insulation, attic insulation, and sqft of the home. He didn't enter window information and I couldn't tell what he used for temperatures since it was preloaded to my zip code. He was surprised that the iPad app said 3 tons. He also wanted 3.5 tons. He still sent me a quote with an 80K BTU furnace.

So, I don't know why over sizing is so common in my area.

Unfortunately, I'm not getting any response from two Rheem dealers in my area. I filled out an online request to schedule a visit. I did specify this system and maybe they didn't like that:

- Rheem Prestige RAPM-036JEZ condenser, 3-ton, single-stage
- Rheem Classic Gas Furnace RGPT-05EBMKR, 80% AFUE, 50K BTU, 1200 CFM High Efficiency X-13 Blower
- Rheem N-Coil RCFL-HM3617CC
- Rheem Thermostat 300-Series RHC-TST301GESS
- Rheem Media Air Filter

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 7:29PM
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hamconsulting

coolmen...the Rheem web site says coil only has a 5-year limited parts warranty. Maybe I'm reading it wrong.

http://www.rheem.com/product/cooling-coils-rcfl

Warranties

Conditional Parts Warranty - Equal to the Limited Parts Warranty of the Outdoor Model (Registration Required)

Limited Parts Warranty - 5 Years

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 7:59PM
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hamconsulting

Tiger,

My current condenser is 26Wx48Lx30H or something close to that. I need one side shorter than the other. I need a rectangle or square with one side closest to 30".

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 8:36PM
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hamconsulting

Finally got call from Rheem dealer. I'll get a quote next week. This guy is all about qualifying for rebates, but I said I need a quote for this equipment before I consider other options.

    Bookmark   September 7, 2012 at 10:33PM
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hamconsulting

Rheem dealer came, but spent most of his time explaining rebates in order to justify putting in new ducts and to qualify for rebate for my upcoming wall insulation. He's pushing for the value compressor 14AJM instead of the RAPM-036JEZ.

I told him I don't want the low-end model, but he's claiming that the 10-year warranty on the 14AJM is as good as the RAPM-036JEZ.

No price quote yet, but he knows about 3 separate rebate programs that I can qualify for. I told him to put it in writing, but needs to do a home test first (HERS).

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 3:54PM
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hamconsulting

By the way, I've been spending a lot of time on the ARI web site trying to match up my compressor, gas furnace, and evap coil. The search feature is a bit confusing and I can't always enter my model numbers, but I'm finding stuff and I'm exporting anything useful to Excel to look at it later.

I can see that the right combination of coil and furnace can get you up to 15.10 SEER on the RAPM-036JEZ.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2012 at 3:58PM
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hamconsulting

My Rheem dealer is rebate crazy. There's pros and cons about rebates. The more you get in rebates...the more you spend...the more work the dealer profits from.

My philosophy is this: I need new equipment and I'm willing to fix some problems with my ducting. Tell me how much my base a/c system costs and let me know what rebates I qualify for. I don't like the carrot on a stick model of these rebates.

I figure out what system I want, but don't know if the physical dimensions are good with this 21" coil and how well it fits the furnace.

ARE Ref # = 4035789
Rheem Prestige 3-ton communicating RAPM-036JEZ
Rheem Coil = RCFL-H*3821
Rheem Classic gas furnace, 80% AFUE, 50K BTU, High Eff X-13 Motor, RGPT-05?BMK?
Cooling BTUs = 37200
EER = 12.50
SEER = 15.10

I don't have a price, but this is well matched system. Dealer is already telling me that some of these components are not common in Southern California, so it might cost more to order from factory.

Still dealing with dealers trying to oversize the furnace or switch me to a 2-stage more expensive unit.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2012 at 2:12AM
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hamconsulting

I got my quote for my dream Rheem system. Unfortunately, it's in the upper levels...$9700. It's exactly the system I want that I mentioned in the above post including the TST301GESS stat. Potential to get $2700 in rebates, so total would be $7k.

The risk of trying to get rebates is that it might require additional work at an additional expense if you don't pass the tests which themselves cost money.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 12:43AM
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hamconsulting

Oh, this quote includes new ducting, new lineset, and new registers.

I'm afraid of having to pay more to pass the tests to qualify for the rebates.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 12:47AM
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Servicetech

Looks like the dealer oversize the load calc too. No way a 1430sqft house needs 3 tons if it is insulated as well as you say it is. My house has LESS insulation than yours and is 150sqft bigger. It's also in a hotter climate (OKC). 2tons keeps the 1587sqft house 75 degrees inside on a 100degree day.

Keep in mind EER is based on continuous operation, and doesn't factor in the 7-10 minutes it takes for your system to reach the full EER rating. If your system is oversized it will shut off just as it's getting to it's full EER.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2013 at 12:01PM
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