need help comparing heat pump

mommom1August 14, 2014

by mommom1 (My Page) on Wed, Aug 13, 14 at 12:51

need help deciding, very confused in quotes with 2 different companies, I live in southwest Pa, currently have 30 yr old Ge forced air electric. 2 story colonial and full basement. The 2 story is @ 1,000sq ft per floor.
Company 1 gives 3 quotes
carrier 15 seer 3 ton hp #25hbc536a003 and fan coil fv4cnf002 heat strip 20 k non prog thermostat $7320
2nd quote, same as 1st but change fan coil to fb4cnp036 $7,000
3rd quote carrier 13 seer 3t 25hcd336a003 $6490
2nd company quotes
carrier 13 seer and coil $5915 no change in current old thermostat but going to a 3.5 ton
next proposal, 16 infinity two state hp infinity fan coil and infinity thermostat $10,895-1,000 cool cash rebate=$9895 and upped it to a 4ton unit and this includes 10yr parts and labor, the first company is charging $850 for that. Both said existing duct was ok.

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tigerdunes

For your location, I would prefer a HP system that has electronic demand defrost. Carrier/Bryant do not offer that feature. Trane/AmStd do.

The first quote is the Comfort series with var speed blowe. A nice basic system. While the FV002 air handler is an AHRI match, it is not the best match. You would want the FV005L or FV006L for the better performance/efficiency numbers.

Any idea what size heat strip you have now? I certainly think a 20 KW heat strip as quoted is oversized.

With this system, you want Carrier's Edge Thermidistat.

I would not consider the other quotes. Can't believe a 4 ton is correct.

I would get an upgrade price on the 3 ton Performance 16 HP system. Specs below.

6938206 Active Systems CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING PERFORMANCE SERIES PURON HP CARRIER AIR CONDITIONING 25HCB636A**31 FV4CN(B,F)005L 1050 840 36400 13.00 16.50 35400 9.00 22600 1 HRCU-A-CB 274 772 Yes

IMO

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 9:40AM
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mommom1

after reading your reply I looked up seer ratings and I see that the hp unit in the performance series has ratings comparable to the comfort series so I should be able to get better pricing, right? The difference that I noticed is the performance is 2 speed, should there be a big price diff?

    Bookmark   August 15, 2014 at 7:58PM
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countryboymo

After owning a unit with and without demand defrost I would not even consider one without it.

The ones with it defrost on timed cycles of actual accumulated run time 30 60 or 90 minutes depending on what the installer sets it to. So after the allotted time is up it cycles into defrost and puts warm air inside the house outside.

Unless it is foggy or something is falling from the sky my new demand defrost unit might not even defrost all day. Any time it is defrosting you are shooting yourself in the foot efficiency wise.

Rheem/ruud is another option and quality and what I have

Trane american standard are probably the very top of the line with rheem ruud and then carrier bryant in my favorite list

    Bookmark   August 19, 2014 at 10:37PM
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mommom1

Thanks for your input. I am still waiting on # for the units Tiger Dunes recommended from 2 contractors, it seems no one is comparing apples to apples. I have looked up the stats myself and I think they don't want to move on the fan coil because that would cause a need in upsizing ductwork. There is also a discrepancy in 3-4 ton, I was at 3-3.5ton and know one except Tiger explained the HP Performance series. It seems they want lower end or high end. Had a Trane guy come out and he looked @ current furnace and told me 2.5 ton and he thought my bills might go up a bit (what kind of bull is that)

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 1:25PM
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tigerdunes

I would also get a price on a 3 ton Trane XR15, XL15i, and XR17 heat pump with best matching TAM7 air handler.

IMO

This post was edited by tigerdunes on Wed, Aug 20, 14 at 13:37

    Bookmark   August 20, 2014 at 1:35PM
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mommom1

got a quote for Carrier 3 ton hp 25hbc536003 and performance air handler fv4cnf003 but his price went way up and nhp thermostat, $9096...this guy says there is a rebate of $350 on a handler from electric co. says I don't need programmable thermostat. I won't be hiring him but should I expect a lg price jump when asking for the better ah as I intend to call the first company back to get pricing on tigers suggestion of fv4cn(bf)005l. Bye the way this guy said my ductwork was ok for moving 400 cfm per ton.
thanks for helping me sort this out

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 12:09PM
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tigerdunes

Nice system but too high and nonsense about the thermostat.

Follow up on my suggestion on the Trane systems. Should be less expensive.

IMO

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 12:21PM
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sktn77a

The 005 and 002 air handlers shouldn't be different in price. Only reason to get the 002 in your case is if the larger 005 case won't fit through your access door.

Get a thermostat that will allow you to select the slower dehumidification speed on the FV4 air handler and stage the electric backup heat strips. The FV4 can do this on its own but controlling from the thermostat is better.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2014 at 10:38PM
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mommom1

waiting for pricing on trane hp 3ton xr15 and tam7 air handler...any suggestion on thermostat....I was told the performance hp 25hcb636a 3t is not carried by the Pgh,Pa distributor because of low sales but yet they carry the airhandler (every one has a diff story) any how they think their price was very fair, I think it was very high

    Bookmark   September 2, 2014 at 11:44AM
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tigerdunes

The thermostat for the Trane XR15 3 ton would be HW Mdl 8321, identical to and less expensive than Trane's 803 thermostat.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 2, 2014 at 12:51PM
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mommom1

Trane contractor called back with model and pricing
air handler variable speed tam7aoc36h315b
hp 4twr5036g1000a
therm-hw8321 price for all $8100

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 9:31AM
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tigerdunes

Not cheap but a nice system. I assume a 10 KW heat strip.

For a 3 ton, I always use $2500/ton as a guide for pricing but region, marketplace competitiveness play a factor in pricing.

Any applicable rebates from Trane?

IMO

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 10:10AM
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mommom1

He said $200 instant rebate from Trane and he thinks a rebate of $300 from power co. but that is up to me.
also he is recommending 20kw, I know you thought that was to much..he said he doesn't believe in bells and whistles therefore he doesn't like to upsell. I don't care for a lot of bells either but I do want energy efficient product that I can afford and this I can do (at the top of my price range) I can't tell you how much You and others on this site are helping. I think I may purchase the 10yr labor warranty $600

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 11:01AM
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tigerdunes

No 20 KW. Stupid.

Trane did offer a 10/15 KW and 8/12 KW 2 stage heat strip module. Either would be OK .

What size is existing?

IMO

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 11:11AM
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mommom1

tiger, we only have electric forced air 30 yr old Ge furnace no ac..on front of furnace it has a plate marked off with the following: circuit 1 volts 208/240 kw 7.20/9.60 htr amps34.7/40 and then circuit 2 with the same #'s... all three conractors say I need 20kw. how will this affect me?

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 12:37PM
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tigerdunes

You apparently have a straight resistance electric furnace. With a heat pump your strip heat need is not as great.

You are being advised very badly.
Either of the two stage offerings would be fine. Keep in mind you will get around 20 KBTUs of heat at 17 degree outdoor temp. This does not include any BTUs from strip heat.

The 8/12 module will yield about 40 KBTUs of strip heat on high stage.

The 10/15 module will yield about 51 KBTUs of strip heat on high stage.

Your dealer is an idiot. Sorry bit true.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 12:46PM
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mike_home

A 10 year labor warranty for $600 is a fair deal. Make sure you understand exactly how the warranty will work. Is the warranty provided by the contractor? Is there a required yearly maintenance from the contractor?

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 2:32PM
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tigerdunes

Who is the insurer for 10 yr ext labor warranty? Third party labor warranties can be very problematic. Tred carefully.

IMO

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 2:51PM
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mommom1

comparing the tam7 air handler the tam stands for "telephone communicating module" do I want that? and I see Trane has the Hyperion models, should I consisder them?

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 3:14PM
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tigerdunes

You are getting beyond your pay grade.

This is the system match you want both condenser and TAM7 air handler.

Add the 8321 thermostat. Add one of the two stage heat strips I suggested. Your choice. Definitely not a 20 KW.

4655311 Active Systems TRANE XR15 WEATHERTRON TRANE 4TWR5036G1 *AM7A0C36H31 1225 36000 12.50 15.00 34600 9.25 21800 1 HRCU-A-CB Yes 298 751 Yes

IMO

    Bookmark   September 3, 2014 at 4:11PM
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