Is this York system a good match?

yeonandjamieAugust 16, 2011

I was looking into getting a Carrier system but the contractor said he gave the wrong prices and that the correct pricing would be about $2k more than his original quote. So he gave me a York option:

(2) - Heat Pumps (YHJF2454151)

(2) - Coils (CE30844175L063)

(2) - Variable speed air handlers (MV12BN21C).

So, my question is twofold.

First, is this a good system?

Second, is this a good price? The price is $17,500 and will be for 2 systems (both 2-ton, for each floor of a 2 floor house) and include all new ductwork.

TIA

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juliekcmo

Can you double check the coil part number? I don't recognize it, and it did not come up in google.

The heat pump is a nice mid-tier HP with scroll compressor and 14.5 SEER rating. The air handler is a variable speed model. This is good equipment. I have that same HP in a larger size, and it is very quiet.

This level of equipment is solid quality and good value for what you receive.

Ask your dealer for the AHRI matchup certificate for the system including the coil, to make sure the coil is a rated match with this equipment. If it is not, then I would ask for another coil that is rated.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2011 at 9:24PM
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yeonandjamie

Juliekcmo,

That's really great info. Nice to hear you actually have personal experience with this heat pump.

I will double check the coil part number.

As for the AHRI, they gave me the #3420164.

I was told that the air handler and compressor would match up to 15.5 SEER with 13 EER. Is this accurate?

Also, how do I find out if this is a single stage or 2 stage compressor?

Additionally, do you think I should spend an extra $2k to get the 16 SEER Affinity YZF?

And lastly, another contributor on this forum said to get a staged backup heat strip. Is this an additional option I should be asking for from the HVAC contractor?

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   August 16, 2011 at 9:48PM
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ryanhughes

That coil is manufactured by Aspen. It's a third party coil that can be used in place of a York coil. Personally, I prefer to use an OEM (York) coil. If you do go with the Aspen coil, find out the length of the warranty and who's providing it. Ratings are indeed 15.5 SEER, 13 EER, and 8.95 HSPF. These are good ratings -- however when third party evaporator coils are used, the ratings are computer simulated. York does not test these combinations (to my knowledge).

The YHJF units are single stage units. For two ton systems, I don't think I'd pay an extra $2k for the 16 SEER 2-stage units. Low stage is approximately 75% of total capacity, so you're talking about running at 1.5 tons vs. 2 tons on low.

I'm not sure how York does staged back-up heat. Carrier has pre-wired electric heater packages that come staged from the factory. I'm sure it is an option with York, but may require you to invest in a more expensive thermostat to do it.

I don't like the move made by this dealer personally. No reason they shouldn't be able to do the Carrier 2 ton 13 SEER systems for $17.5k (as described in your previous quote). I think they realized they could get the Yorks for quite a bit cheaper and rescinded the Carrier option for that reason. I could be totally wrong, and it may have been an honest mistake -- however in a situation like that, I think they should take the loss if they want the business.

    Bookmark   August 17, 2011 at 9:03AM
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yeonandjamie

Hi Ryan,

Thanks again for the response. The info. on the coil is very helpful. I'll see what he says about getting a York coil.

As for the Carrier option, he had originally quoted me (and then rescinded) $18,250 for two, 2-ton 16 SEER Carrier systems (I made the mistake of writing 13 SEER instead of 16 SEER in my original post). Do you think I should look ask him for pricing on 13 SEER Carrier heat pumps? The reason I was going for the higher SEER was because 1) a neighbor says we HAVE to go for 16 SEER and 2) I was trying to qualify for the federal tax credit.

Also, do you think one central return on the 2nd floor and one return on the first floor is sufficient? (There's about 1,000 sq. ft. on each floor).

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   August 17, 2011 at 9:55AM
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mike_home

Can you explain why your neighbor said you HAVE to go for a 16 SEER system?

    Bookmark   August 17, 2011 at 1:30PM
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yeonandjamie

Mike,

To be honest with, I have no idea why my neighbor thinks a 16 SEER is a must. He's never actually explained his line of thought. The only thing he's said is that a 16 SEER will be worth the cost.

Guess I should stop listening to said neighbor...

    Bookmark   August 17, 2011 at 3:53PM
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yeonandjamie

Ryan, another question. Can you suggest a York coil as well?

    Bookmark   August 17, 2011 at 5:43PM
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ryanhughes

Thanks for clarifying the York vs. Carrier switch. It's more believable now that a mistake was made in the pricing initially. So they were intending to quote the two 16 SEER systems for around 20 grand as I understand it. This still seems high on the surface, but you're getting all new ductwork and the job may entail more than we can tell from here. Also, proper load calculation and duct design costs time and money. I would recommend asking for a comparable estimate on 15 SEER Carrier systems compared to the York. York makes good equipment, but if the Carrier is similarly priced, I'd lean toward the Carrier equipment.

I do believe there are benefits to the 2-stage 16 SEER units, but having two zones in your home already, I think you're just fine with two properly sized single-stage units with variable speed fan coils and a good thermostat. It is good to price all your options.

You should be fine with two central returns with two 2-ton heat pumps, if sized properly (14" or 16" round duct would be sufficient) with ample surface area. Are the bedroom doors undercut to allow for return air to reach the central return?

As for the York coil, there are a couple options to match up with the MV12B blower (models FC35B and FC43B). These provide ratings of 12.5 EER, 15 SEER, and 8.5 HSPF (acceptable for the tax credit). The 43 gives a bit more cooling capacity. York also offers single piece air handlers (model AVG36). The above is a 2-piece configuration as originally proposed by the dealer.

Let me know if I can provide any more info.

    Bookmark   August 17, 2011 at 11:31PM
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yeonandjamie

Ryan, many thanks again for the great info.

As it stands, this contractor has given me the lowest bids so far (and I'm not leaning towards going with him exclusively on the low price, but more so because he came well recommended by my next door neighbor). Pricing from another company came in at $23,500 for two, 2-ton York 13 SEERS and yet another quoted 22k for two 13 SEER Carriers. Maybe because I'm getting estimates during a heat wave and they want to capitalize on that?

I will ask the contractor to price out 15 SEER Carriers as well.

As for the bedrooms doors, they look like they're carpet cut (we have all hardwood floors) so there is a bit of a gap between the floor and the door. As for the ducts, he said he would be using 18" rounds.

I'll look into the coils as well. As for the air handler, is it more preferable to go with a single piece air handler? Should it cost more than the contractor's proposed 2-pc.?

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   August 18, 2011 at 10:02AM
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yeonandjamie

Oh, another question Ryan. Which thermostats would you recommend? When I asked the contractor about t-stats, he said he had a few options (a couple Honeywell, some White-Rodgers) for me to look at but I really wouldn't know what would be a good match.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2011 at 10:09AM
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neohioheatpump

I just wanted to mention that York products are good. Their heatpumps have demand defrost and Carrier's don't. They are also quiet. They have jackets around the compressor and a quiet top. I own one (14.5 seer heatpump). They are quiet.

They are also built in the USA and have a good warranty.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2011 at 11:36AM
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ryanhughes

2-piece setups offer more flexibility in installation. On an attic install at least, it is easier to carry up two smaller sections of an air handler as opposed to one. When I looked up the ratings of single piece air handlers vs. the 2-piece setups (like the one you've been quoted), the SEER/EER/HSPF ratings tended to be higher with 2-piece air handlers. So, I would look into the two York coils I mentioned previously along with the MV12B.

As for the thermostat, I have and recommend the Honeywell VisionPRO 8320 (TH8320). Since you will have a variable speed air handler, I recommend stepping up to the VisionPRO IAQ model (YTH9421), which can be wired and configured so that the blower slows to around 80% in cooling mode to maintain a set humidity level. When humidity is at the set point, it provides full airflow (typically 400 cfm/ton) for maximum efficiency.

I would compare the estimates you have on York equipment (with the IAQ thermostats) compared to Carrier equipment with the IAQ (or Carrier TP-PRH).

Comparable Carrier system would be the following:
25HCC524 outdoor unit
FV4CNF002 air handler
12.5 EER, 15.5 SEER, 9.0 HSPF

    Bookmark   August 18, 2011 at 1:01PM
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yeonandjamie

Ryan, thanks again for all of the great information you've provided me. I am grateful you're willing to take the time to share your wealth of knowledge on my HVAC issue.

I'm waiting to hear back from the contractor about the fan coils you recommended as well as pricing for the Carrier system you listed. I'll let you know what I hear back.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2011 at 3:52PM
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