Get a Miele or no?

livebetterApril 25, 2010

Hi everyone, I currently own a Frigidaire Gallery pair (9 years) that have served me well. No repairs and my laundry seems clean (whites seem white etc ...).

I have been thinking about upgrading them as I know the newer machines probably outperform these hands down. I would also like more room in the drum. I would also like if my sheets didn't roll up into a ball when I dry them ... sigh... IÂm pretty picky about laundry and figure IÂd benefit from a great machine (clean laundry matters to me a lot).

I just noticed Miele Canada is offering $1,000 off if you buy a pair direct from them. I wouldn't have considered buying a new pair so quickly but that seems like a pretty great deal. I would be looking at the W4840 and matching gas dryer. I have a couple of questions:

1) If you own a Miele W4840 are you happy with it? I have read both good and bad reviews - not sure what to believe.

2) The way my current laundry room is set up the doors would open backwards for me (washer must be on the left). If you have them this way is it a bother? IÂm wondering how much that will annoy me.

3) Would I be better to shop around for another brand (ie. Bosch) where the door would open with a left side hinge?

4) I know my current exhaust pipe has 4 bends in it but it is rigid metal  does anyone know if that is acceptable for the Miele gas dryer? I didnÂt see any installation documents on the website.

Thanks for any input!

Here is a link that might be useful: Miele Laundry Promotion - Canada

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I had a W4840 and T9822 gas dryer years ago, right when Miele debuted these new Super Capacity models. It worked quite well, but had issues (mainly warning codes and messages). Also, the Max Spin was somewhat loud & seemed to be unbalanced a lot. I HATED, HATED the gas dryer. Loud, either too hot or damp clothes. Wrinkles, frustration. Miele should stick with Electric dryers (like they only offer in Europe!!)

After a few years with the small (Euro) sized Miele units, I wanted BIG again. I got another W4840 and the T9800 Electric Dryer. Drastic improvements. Once the dryer was re-programmed to be warmer in the Normal mode, and to do an extended cool down with a lot of drum reversing...the units were perfect. Should have kept my W4840!!

Went thru 2 W4842 units in about 5 months or so. Both were defective from the day of delivery, causing a lot of headaches, frustration and resentment.

I would highly recommend the W4840, but seriously consider the T9800 Electric Dryer. Even if you have to spend $200-300 to have a 220V outlet installed in your laundry will be SO much happier.

Since I have had Miele washer and dryers for over 15 years, trust me...the Electric Dryers are much better. Quieter, faster, and the heat is even and very controlled!

The overall build quality on almost anything Miele is fantastic.

If wrinkles and bundled up sheets drive you crazy (my BIG annoyance and pet peeve), you need to buy a dryer that uses reverse tumbling. As far as I know, you can choose Miele, Electrolux Wave Touch, some Fisher & Paykel and some GE Profile units. Good Luck!!

Oh yes, the $1000.00 discount is most likely due to the fact that the W4840 and matching dryer are discontinued items. Miele is now making the W4842 and T9802/T9822 dryers.

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 5:46PM
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Larsi, I saw your post that you are now the proud owner of the Electrolux Wave Touch. I'm not in a rush to upgrade (knock on wood nothing happens to my FG) do you think there is something better (ie. Electrolux) for me to consider?

I have a basement laundry so the machines will be on porcelain tile (on concrete). My current machine shakes a fair bit while itÂs spinning too but it would be nice to have a quieter machine (not that it is necessary as itÂs downstairs).

Can I have the Electrolux washing machine on the left with a left hinge? That is one of my biggest concerns about the Miele is the inconvenience of the doors opening onto each other. My washer has to be on the left.

In the end is the $1,000 off too good to pass up?

I always had electric dryers and when I got the FG pair I changed to gas. I like gas better as I find it a more moist heat that seems nicer too clothes. However, I have had a few instances where I opened the dryer mid cycle and something seemed to get burnt (weird). Gas is still less than electric here so Â. I donÂt know  I do have a 220V plug there as well (foresight when I built the space incase I wanted to switch back to electric).

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 8:15PM
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Electrolux Wave Touch Washer and Dryer both have fully reversible doors!!! We switched both on our units, so they open towards each other (SO convenient!!). We have the dryer on the left, washer on the right (way the house came).

It is one of the few units available from any company, to allow both to reverse!

IMO, Electric dryers are MUCH gentler than gas dryers. NO scorched items and much more even and consisten!!!

    Bookmark   April 25, 2010 at 10:33PM
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I'm very happy with my Miele W4840. It came with extra-long fill and drain hoses, which can reach plumbing hookups on the left side.

If I needed a new washer and couldn't get a Miele for some reason, I don't think the Electrolux would be a satisfactory substitute. For one thing, its wash cycles are very short, and I make heavy use of the Miele's "Extended" option. Nearly 1 hour wash cycle on Custom cycle, in exchange for which most stains and dirt come out without pretreating. For another thing, the Miele will extend the wash cycle as necessary to allow the water to heat up, while the Electrolux does this only on Sanitize cycle (per a long discussion on a while ago). Given my long hot water delay, I would never get a true hot wash on the Electrolux. There are times when I want hot but not sanitize.

Larsi, were your W4842's installed in the same place as your old W4840?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 11:52AM
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livebetter...Do not listen to suburbanmd!!

Ha ha, just kidding! He is very knowledgable and informed, especially about Miele!

Suburbanmd, yes the W4842 (both of them) were installed in the same place as both W4840s. Washer on the right, dryer on the left.

For almost the last 2 decades, I have owned and used 6 sets of Miele washer and dryers I am very, very familiar with Miele laundry units. Also, in our last 3+ homes, we have changed EVERY kitchen appliance to Miele, and currently our large kitchen is very well appointed with all Miele appliances!

Before I owned the Electrolux Wave Touch washer and dryer, I would have agreed with you 100% suburbanmd, that they are not a good Miele substitute. Now that I own Electrolux...I have to disagree with you 100%!

Using the NORMAL wash cycle, puts the wash time from 45 mins to 1 hour 1 minute. You can add prewash to that, and you can also add soak (which will add a 5+ minute mid-cycle soaking). These options are available on almost every cycle offered.

According to Electrolux, the intermal heater is USED and ON for EVERY wash temp excpet tap cold (no heat). You also have the option to select Eco Temp On, which will disengage the internal heater, and rely solely on one's household water heater if one wishes. I have my washer set to Eco Temp Off. I utilized the internal water heater for every wash load.

In terms on worrying that you will not get a true HOT wash cycle, that is not warranted or true. When you select HOT temp in any cycle that allows HOT, the internal water heater will be on. Also, the Wave Touch has an ADD STEAM option to most cycles. This will allow you to boost and quicken the wash cycle temperature and maintain a factory set HOT wash cycle.

If you choose to set the wash cycle to Heaviest Soil, you will be given roughly a ONE HOUR+ wash cycle. By selecting pre wash or the soak feature or the steam feature or the extra rinse or warm rinse etc...You can add anywhere from 5 mins to almost 45 mins more.

So actually, the Electrolux allows longer wash cycles than the Miele, in many more cycles (not just sanitize).

I still appreciate Miele engineering, but after using my Electrolux units for over a week, you can QUICKLY tell that Electrolux designed these units to match and surpass Miele (in many aspects).

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 3:37PM
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By "wash cycle" I mean the part of the cycle when the load is tumbling in water mixed with detergent. This is when cleaning is taking place. The Electrolux manual calls it "reversing tumble wash action". It's much shorter on the Electrolux compared to the Miele.

The heater being on during the wash cycle may be enough for you, if the water runs hot as soon as your machine starts to fill. I don't have that. My wash cycle fill can be tepid at best, and the heater wouldn't be able to finish heating it to "Hot" (assuming that's 120F on the Electrolux, I can't find the number) during the relatively short wash cycle length. The Miele, from my observations, lengthens the wash cycle as necessary to ensure a minimum amount of time at the set temperature.

Not sure I understand your answer about where your Mieles were installed...right vs. left isn't what I was asking. The troublesome W4842's were in the same house, in the same place, as the W4840 which worked ok?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 5:22PM
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> "The Miele, from my observations, lengthens the wash cycle as necessary to ensure a minimum amount of time at the set temperature".

That's the same "mindset" of the Allergy programming mode, that allows even a longer amount of time at the set temperature. Eg a 140°F cycle with allergy mode engaged is longer than a plain "extended" 140°F cycle.

This way the longer temperature action is able to kill dust mites

Here we have
Allerwash models, although I guess they soon will disappear, cause Miele will rather sell custom programme packages for allergic people

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 6:44PM
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Unfortunately my dryer is set up for the right side so even the extended hoses won't help me. The doors would have to open into each other ... I'd like to think that wouldn't bother me but ... it might ...

The debate rages on .... to Miele or not to Miele.

Sounds like getting the W4840 would be a good choice and I'll have to contemplate the dryer situation.

Those Electrolux models sure look nice and I love how they don't shake when spinning. Saw some demos on Youtube that were impressive. Of course, really clean, soft clothes are the true test.

Hmmmm ...

Here is a link that might be useful: Electrolux Wave Touch Spin Cycle

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 7:40PM
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hidroman, you need to point out that you don't actually have a W48XX washer. Your reference to "allergy programming mode" is for a different Miele washer. The W48XX does not have a usable Allergy mode. There is an allergy setting in the service menu, but it does nothing.

When you reference different programming or service menu options, can you please mention the specific machine you are using? The programming options are not interchangeable.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 10:08PM
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From limited observations, I tend to believe that Allergy mode on the W4840 influences how much time it spends trying to achieve a good spin after the wash cycle, and also influences whether it drains after a prewash. Do you know for certain that it does nothing, or is it just that you haven't noticed anything?

    Bookmark   April 26, 2010 at 10:51PM
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When the program function allergy is activated, the technical process
provides an optimum adaptation to the needs of allergy sufferers:

 additional rinse cycles,
 higher water levels,
 additional spin for suds extraction,
 speed of spin for suds extraction,
 rinse to clear foam remnants from porthole.

The above is what a Miele tech who serviced our machine said as well. We have the feature activated.

    Bookmark   April 27, 2010 at 12:31AM
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With allergy off, the machine still drains after a spin cycle and appears to behave exactly the same as it did with Allergy turned off. No additional rinse cycles unless you press Sensitive, water levels appear the same or even lower, and I don't notice any "rinse to clear foam remnants from porthole". It rinses as it always does.

Perhaps the changes are too subtle to notice?

    Bookmark   April 28, 2010 at 10:21AM
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Can anyone say categorically that the Allergy function on the W48XX does anything?

    Bookmark   April 28, 2010 at 12:39PM
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Although I have no substantiation, can it be that the firmware revision is directly related to the feature's actual activation? We have the latest revision for our W 4840 as of February 2010 (although the firmware might be an earlier date we have had revisions uploaded)?

Case in point: The WiFi feature is said to be able to do many a function, yet it is in its remedial stages, in North America, today. The machine itself had the capability when the series was first released, Miele is taking their time in its implementation of abilities.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2010 at 2:56PM
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Some of the Allergy mode features might be activated only under certain conditions, like excess suds or turbidity, or certain load characteristics. Water level changes might be hard to see. Like I said above, I think I've seen some differences, but I'm not really sure.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2010 at 1:21PM
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>I just noticed Miele Canada is offering $1,000 off if you buy a pair direct from them.

It's funny that they're offering this (it goes until May 31). Back in March they had a $500 promo on the full-size machines, I misread it and thought it was on purchases directly from them, which seemed a bit strange given their normal dealer-only approach. I wrote them and they told me in no uncertain (and somewhat snooty) terms that I had to go to a dealer, they don't deal with the public.

When the March promo ended, an April $500 promo started right away. Then the $1000 promo on direct sales.

We were hoping they'd have a promotion on the smaller machines but I guess they are more successful in Canada (witness still selling the 1612 and 303x washers, while the US side only has the 303x).


    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 6:46PM
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I spoke with someone when I visited the Miele gallery and they agreed the ad is misleading.

They explained that when you buy your Miele from an authorized dealer you really are buying it directly from Miele. For example, if I purchase my machines from Tasco in Toronto, Tasco enters the sale in a separate computer that is for Miele only. Tasco will have stock of all other makes but Miele must be shipped from Miele and installed by Miele.

I assume the deal is because they are overstocked on the larger machines and need to clear some out.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2010 at 7:46PM
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I own the 4840 and love it but it is loud and vibrates during the spin cycle. Just now (as I posted this in another thread) it is going through the spin cycle and the entire house shakes & it's loud. The 4840 is on the ground floor on honed marble.

However, I don't care. I love my Miele washer and dryer.

O/T msg to Larsi, if you're planning on buying a new Miele dw can you let me know? :) I'll buy your old one! (I think, you're in LA area? I'm in N California area).

    Bookmark   May 27, 2010 at 3:13AM
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Eventually, Miele in the US will be handled the same way. The Authorized Dealer only takes the order. The shipping, delivery, and installation will all be handled by Miele directly. This, I assume, was due to improper installations and poor customer handling. Or at least customer handling isn't up to Miele's standards. Perhaps the average dealer was treating Miele sales as if they were the same as Samsung sales such that delivery was a drop off, plug in, and run.


    Bookmark   May 27, 2010 at 8:27AM
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I currently have the Stainless Steel LaPerla Miele Dishwasher. I've had it for 2 years. WOW, it is the best Miele DW I have ever owned (and I've had 5 or 6). It is whisper quiet, and even without prerinsing...the dishes and glasses are flawlessly clean). I will keep it 3 more years, and then when my 5 year warranty ends...I will upgrade to the next/current LaPerla. Over the years, I have NEVER needed or had 1 single service visit for a Miele Dishwasher. They are amazing and perfect!!! :)

    Bookmark   May 27, 2010 at 10:15AM
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Larsi that is great news. I'm really thinking about LaPerla in stainless. I might get one soon, 3 years might be way too long for me to wait for yours to be avail ;)

    Bookmark   May 27, 2010 at 7:25PM
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