Scullery...

lavender_lassJanuary 9, 2014

What are your thoughts about a scullery? A place to stack pots and pans (with big sink and maybe dishwasher) until you can get back to clean up. Do you like the idea?

There's a post with a scullery right now and I have to say...I think it's a great idea! With kitchens being more open, it seems wonderful to walk behind the fridge/range wall and dump big pots back there. They can be stored in the scullery, too...leaving the clean up sink (often on the island) free for smaller items and prep. Thoughts?

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nycbluedevil

I think that maybe Downton Abbey is starting to permeate the kitchen culture on GW.

I am not seeing how this makes a lot of sense. Don't you have to walk the extra steps to go put the pots there in the first place? And what if you need that pot again while you are cooking the same meal? Do you go and wash it in the scullery while something else boils over on the stove and you can't see it because you are in the scullery?

Maybe it makes sense if you have a scullery maid...or maybe there is something I am missing?

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 12:56PM
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lavender_lass

LOL! That's a great show...but I think the kitchen is depressing. I was thinking about some of the kitchens I've seen, where the 'scullery' area is just a few steps from the range. Either behind it or just off to one side. It keeps the dirty pots and pans close, but out of view. Also nice if you have a smaller kitchen and want to incorporate a nearby space, but can't take the walls completely down.

I mean, butler's pantries are very popular, too...and I don't think that's just from Downton Abbey :)

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 1:02PM
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aktillery9

I think that if you are wanting to hide your pot and pans and you just have to walk a few feet or so it is a great idea! I want my kitchen to look clean and it would be nice to have a large sink a few feet away to wash my pots and pans. Particularly if you are having a party. I do not see if being a problem at all. I have always loved butlers or walk in pantries. Once we build it... I will let you know. But it might be a while!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 1:02PM
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bmorepanic

Well, actually English people have a tradition of utility rooms that can be sculleries or back kitchens. I'd like to have a scullery - in the concept of a smallish space meant to do dishes. I also want a flower room and have for a few decades before Downton Abbey.

Many newer houses in england have utility space. A place to clean up before dragging that dirt into the house and/or clean up veg coming from the garden.

I have always loved Jamie Oliver's back kitchen - Honking Big Sink - like over 72"?, 36"ish range, a work table, some shelves and open front tall storage pieces.

It's all crammed into this tiny kitchen space and it should set off claustrophobia, but instead is really warm and seems efficient without being sterile.

A utility kitchen is generally accompanied by another bigger kitchen for the family. It's where the big processing type tasks are done - like jam making or cookie baking.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 1:32PM
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GauchoGordo1993

To my thinking it depends entirely on how well it's utilized. Allocating significant space to a scullery in my house wouldn't make sense because I just can't imagine us using it much, but if you'd utilize it well, then it would be great!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 1:55PM
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cj47_gw

I absolutely love the idea. If I was building new, and money was no object, I'd have one without giving it a second thought. Complete with dishwasher, place to store big, unwieldy things like roasters and crock pots, and all the good glasses and the extra stuff I only use when entertaining during the holidays. Put it in there, wash it in there, put it away in there. Slick. I'd very likely combine it with my walk in pantry, and perhaps even give it aspects of a butlers pantry.

But I'd still call it the Scullery, because when someone asks where to put the roasting pan, I could say, "oh, just pop it in the Scullery". How fun would that be? :-)

Cj

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 2:04PM
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pricklypearcactus

I could really use a scullery. It's embarrassing to admit, but I nearly always have dirty dishes in the sink. My house is not large enough or designed in such a way that it would be possible. But if I had a house that allowed it, I would seriously consider it.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 2:29PM
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honorbiltkit

Arriere cuisine.

Unfortunately, as older homes and longeres in the Orne are renovated, this room for the permanently -- e.g., industrial sized mixer -- and temporarily -- e.g., pans soaking before washing -- unsightly is being supplanted by cuisine americaine.

C'est hugely dommage.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 2:36PM
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beachpea3

I vote for having a Scullery Maid!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 2:49PM
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bpathome

Maybe just space under the sink to stash the pots until cleanup time. Or a deep sink with a lid. AND a Scullery Maid.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 3:10PM
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fouramblues

I thought the idea of a scullery was a bit silly for my lifestyle, but cj47's vision for one has changed my mind. Wow, I could really use a space like that!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 3:48PM
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ineffablespace

I think if it kept things closer to the point of use and storage, why not? I have seen all kinds of ad hoc things like a spare kitchen in the basement or back of the garage for various uses like canning and sausage making and such--so why not for clean up?

However, I think for me it would make most sense to have a separate cleaning up area for dishes and glassware and flatware that would never really make it into the kitchen work area at all. They would just rotate between here and the eating areas. The Kitchen sink itself would get all the heavy duty washing--straight from cooktop or oven or prep.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 4:24PM
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romy718

"oh, just pop it in the Scullery". Love that. How wonderful to pile everything in the scullery & go to bed with a perfectly clean kitchen.

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 4:33PM
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magsnj

Love the idea but I'd make sure it expanded to being the placewhere I could wash/hide pots, cut flowers, can.....maybe wash a small dog (if have to think about that). If also make it an appealing area (in a utilitarian kind of way).

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 5:17PM
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PRO
Sophie Wheeler

Repost from the other thread.
________________

A traditional scullery is where the kitchen maids carry the giant pots and pans to soak in a huge sink full of caustic lye soap. Or where the lady's maids rinse out a few things for their mistress. It's a separate cleaning room from the kitchen proper, with a floor drain and big industrial spray hoses to rinse off the everyday dishes. It's not a "clean up zone" in a kitchen where you can just take a couple of steps and toss the dirty spoon in the sink.
Now, you can create a good sized scullery area in a kitchen if you want to, and don't have extra servants running around to take things back and forth to the back room. I'd start with two large 33" single deep sinks side by side with two faucets and two dishwashers. Then put a ton of china storage in the wall cabinets above and adjacent. Ideally, the kitchen is a broken L shape with island with this cleanup area close to the traffic path to the dining area and just steps from the prep area. The prep area would have the prep sink with the cooking zone behind it, and the fridge next to the dry goods pantry.

Something like this:

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 5:50PM
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mrspete

I'm planning a sort of scullery . . . though in my mind, I call mine a "working pantry". Perhaps I'll adopt the word "scullery".

My pantry's going to be 11' long and will serve as the connector to the garage; thus, when we enter the house, groceries will STOP instead of making the trip all the way to the kitchen.

I'm going to have a simple 4' workspace in the middle of the pantry, and I imagine it serving all sorts of purposes:
- landing spot for groceries waiting to be sorted
- a place to measure out a cup of dried beans or spices . . . which would then be taken back into the kitchen for cooking
- spot to set bread while it rises . . . or meat while it marinates . . . or candy as it cools -- really, I'm always needing a place to set something that's "finishing" in some way
- place to run crockpots, electric roaster, or other small appliances (workspace will be equipped with electrical outlets)
- place to hide dessert until dinner is finished -- also a good place to store several extra gallons of iced tea

I have not imagined including a sink in this area, nor have I imagined moving dirty dishes in and out of this workspace -- I don't see the point in moving them from room to room, not when I have a perfectly good oven in which to hide dirty items! That trick's been working fine for me for years!

    Bookmark   January 9, 2014 at 9:28PM
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julieboulangerie

A few of you beat me to it-- only with a maid.

Most everything I have fits in the sink, and I try to clean up as I go- otherwise I spend hours after everyone is gone cleaning up.

The one thing that doesn't fit in the sink is my pressure canner. I either hose it off outside, or clean it in the bathtub. Works for me.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 12:56AM
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pricklypearcactus

I guess I was thinking a small room directly off the main part of the kitchen that would include a deep sink and dishwasher(s). Something the shape/size/location of many of the lovely pantries I've seen showcased here on GW. Ideally maybe the sink wouldn't be visible from the doorway or could even have a pocket door to close it off (when company drops by and I have dirty dishes sitting in the sink). The main drawback I see would be having the cleaning and storage potentially further apart. But all in all it's a very interesting concept, especially for a procrastinator like myself.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 11:08AM
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kaijutokusatsu

I would love to have a scullery between the kitchen and dining room. Have a counter on the dining room wall with wall cabinets that open into the scullery. After dinner we could just collect the dishes,slide them across the counter,shut the doors and keep on visiting!

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 11:23AM
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ILoveRed

Mrs. Pete...I'm planning a pantry much like you just described with the architect working on our plans, right off the kitchen. Wish it was closer to the garage.

I am actually planning a work space in the middle and was thinking a Boos type island. But, with your ideas I can see why electricity would be great to have. Love the idea of having a place to keep desserts until dinner is done, drinks, etc. Thanks for the great ideas.

Do you think a ceiling vent like a bathroom vent is needed if using crock pot, roaster, etc?

LL...as usual, great thread!

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 12:16PM
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MizLizzie

My mother has one in her very modest house and it works well. She washes and stores all large pots, pans, and canners there. The second sink is also where she preps potatoes and root veg, which are kept in bins underneath. She stores her KA mixer and Breville oven on the counters. Also she has a small, stacking W/D, and a row of shelves for canned goods she's brought up from the cellar. Her recycle bins and wall mount vacuum. At holiday time, we prep the deserts there and set up a second coffee maker. Her main kitchen is small and she likes it tidy since guests are constantly popping in and out. The scullery is usually more piled-up, but functional. If I were building a new house, even a modest one, I would definitely have a scullery combined with a mudroom by the back door and kitchen.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 2:04PM
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lavender_lass

Thank you for all the responses! I saw this idea on another poster's thread (who I hope will post her inspiration pictures!) and it seemed like a wonderful idea :)

With all the descriptions and possibilities, I'm thinking a scullery would be a wonderful addition/combination with a butler's pantry or a mudroom....or especially MizLizzie's mother's idea. How handy to have everything consolidated into one space that makes a bit more mess, while leaving your main work area a bit cleaner and easier to tidy up!

I am always trying to figure out how to squeeze one large kitchen into one small to medium space....so maybe dividing it into two parts would make the most sense. Leave the wall and have easy access between the two. I think the second sink could be as close to the range as many of the clean up areas in much larger kitchens.

Again, thanks for the responses and please keep adding more of these great ideas!

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 3:14PM
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laughablemoments

"Maybe just space under the sink to stash the pots until cleanup time. Or a deep sink with a lid. AND a Scullery Maid."

This comment made me think of my dear MIL's cozy little kitchen. She does not have a DW, and she only likes to wash dishes 1x a day, or once every few days. You would NEVER know this if you walked into her kitchen. It is almost always spotless. What's her secret? I'll let you know; I've dubbed her "Mrs. Stash." : )

Under a tiny bit of countertop between her stove and sink is an area that she has curtained off with a tension rod and cute fabric. She placed a 3 tier wire shelving unit under there with a a few plastic dishpans and plastic shoe boxes for sorting. After a meal or a snack, used silverware and utensils go in the shoe boxes on the top shelf and the dishes, storage containers and cups go in the dishpans on the middle shelf. Larger pans go on the lowest shelf, I think.

She teaches piano, and has students in and out of her house All. Day. Long. So, the dishes quietly hide away in her little hidey hole until her late night washing sessions. Anyone that walks in sees only her clean and pristine counters. Ahhhhh, it's so peaceful in there. She has a mini "scullery" and I didn't know it until I read this thread. Too bad she doesn't have the maid to go with it. ; )

Our kitchen layout is nearly identical to what Hollysprings posted. If I'm working in there by myself, it can make me a little batty. I would like to be able to pivot and clean as I go with a cleanup sink closer to the cooking zone. I get exasperated having to dance around the island to move things in and out of my work zone to do the next thing. I can't simply take a minute from stirring a soup or pouring pancakes and wash a few dishes or load a few things into the dishwasher and turn and stir or flip the pancakes over.

It can become a belabored cooking and cleaning process. Clearing all the counters to the front sink usually takes multiple trips. Then hike around the island to go back and swab all the back counters down. Then carry all the previously cleaned items from the cleanup area arooooound the island to put them away.

Or even better, let's observe Laughable attempt to put something simple together, let's say a batch of muffins from scratch. Background to the scene: The kids did clean-up after the last meal (in an ideal scenario, anyway.) However, they will not empty out the DWs and drainer until post next meal. Ok, here we go: Laughable starts to measure ingredients and then realizes all of the measuring spoons are at the clean up spot. Trot, trot, ring around the island, she gets the spoons. She measures 2 ingredients out, then realizes the whisk is in the clean up spot when she goes to stir the ingredients. Trit, trit, she's off to find the whisk. Now, which DW did the kids stick it in, or did they hand wash it last time? It's not in any of those locations. Think Laughable, where might it be? Don't you love a good hunt? Oh, wait, there it is... somebody stuck it in the drawer next to the stove and not in the crock on the counter where it belongs. Only she realizes this *after hiking to the cleanup zone and carefully examining the contents of the sink, drainer, and 2 DWs . She then goes to flip something in the frying pan to go along with the yummy muffins, and she realizes that all the flippers are...in the cleanup spot. Aaaargh! : 0 I'd love to say I'm organized enough that this scenario is over-exxagerated. Unfortunately, it's based on real life events. Gak.

If I was flying solo all the time, I'd prefer a much tighter kitchen that was designed cockpit style. Except with tons of counterspace, of course. ; ) Something to think about.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 3:49PM
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lavender_lass

Laughable- LOL! Great post...I'm still giggling. Your MIL is brilliant :)

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 4:17PM
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chicagoans

Friends of mine have a little clean up room off the kitchen that could be called a scullery. (Not sure what they call it.) They have a big house and they entertain a lot. When I've been there for parties, the caterers use the little room for staging food trays and of course for clean up. There's an extra DW in there and a big sink. For people who entertain like they do (and have the size house they do) it seems to work very well.

    Bookmark   January 10, 2014 at 6:03PM
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rococogurl

Oh yes, by all means. I definitely need more to manage. I also could use a conservatory, greenhouse, pool house, barn, potting shed, craft room, sewing room, receiving hall, and a back building for staff quarters. If I at least had a cook, butler, maid and laundress my scullery would get a proper workout. How I could relax. And if I had the proper number of gardeners the two trees the arborist took down 10 days ago wouldn't still be cut up in the ravine. The firewood would have been split and stacked already. And I wouldn't need to send any more texts to the landscaper. I could just pull the bell cord. Or hitch a ride on the Tardus.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 3:19PM
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lavender_lass

But then, you'd spend all you time managing the servants, the grounds...and the responsibility! Have you seen Downton Abbey? LOL

Seriously, I have a barn and I'd love a potting shed (the two do not mix well together) and a little greenhouse or conservatory would be nice, too! I don't think any of these things mean you need servants. It just means you don't go on vacation and stay home to feed horses! If that's what you love (and I do) then it's a happy choice :)

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 3:33PM
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kalapointer

I don't know if this would be considered a "scullery", I just call it the "pantry". It doesn't have a DW, but I wash in my all the wine glasses by hand in my Ikea sink and then just put them away on the open shelves in there. I also wash the KA mixing bowls and Food Processor bowls and any other tools that I have used by hand. I make pie crusts and other baked goods in there. I have a Breville counter oven and microwave in the pantry. They come in handy when I don't want to use the larger wall oven in the kitchen. It is just off the kitchen so it is handy for storing crockpots, pressure cookers, other large pots and table linens. We also keep our liquor there also. And it also serves as part laundry room.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 6:24PM
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robo (z6a)

My mom is a country gal of humble origins, NOT fancy by any stretch of the imagination, and her dream is a utility room off the kitchen. Call it what you want, a mudroom, arriere cuisine, scullery, working pantry, spice kitchen, canning room or, as she does, a back porch (porches up here in NS are often enclosed), having a utilitarian room off the main kitchen is super practical and not necessarily just for the super rich. Just depends on your lifestyle. Now she has a back porch and she's scheming how to get my dad to agree to move the w/d out of there and back to the basement so she has more porch room!

My planned laundry/mud room will also be my potting room (and hosta storage if that addiction gets any more out of control!) whereas I would never, for example, do home canning or butcher a deer in a million years. So my utilitarian room is a bit different again.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 7:08PM
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laughablemoments

Kalapointer, could you please share the dimensions of your pantry? Thanks! : ) I'd love to lock myself in there and follow a *whole recipe* without interruption!

LL, glad I could make you giggle. You could see reruns the same act around here with us looking for pencils, pens, scissors....even my slippers. I still haven't located one of them that wandered off on toddler toes never to be found again.

    Bookmark   January 11, 2014 at 10:41PM
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lavender_lass

Laughable- Have you looked in the toybox? LOL I like Kala's pantry too...and she has aprons :)

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 12:03AM
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bpathome

Laughable, does your mil know Flylady? She suggests that very thing, just to keep the sink clear!

I like my pivot u-shape kitchen, but a little more counterspace and appliance storage would be nice. Maybe a pantry wider than 21", too.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 1:52AM
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peony4

What a great thread, because it calls into question the use of space, which I think has been lost in current kitchen design (outside of our GW forum). We try to incorporate all scenarios into our kitchens--massive islands, entertaining, and prep space--when, really, many average homeowners' day-to-day use is more narrowly defined. Yet, we want to consider scenarios that occur periodically when we might need extra space or storage beyond the standard daily kitchen use.

This thread also demonstrates that our use of space is dictated by our hobbies, climate and other general needs. For example, I don't have a pantry because I'm adverse to food storage. But my mudroom serves as a place to hide the stockpots and baking sheets that I use to prepare food for guests because my kitchen is visible to my entertaining area.

As important to me, I love to garden, and this same mudroom is my place to transition flowers and vegetables from my garden to my house. So, my ideal "scullery" would have a potting station, a storage area, a sink for extra kitchen clean-up, and a comfortable corner where my friendly but intimidating German Shepherd dog could curl up when I've booted her from the company she overwhelms. (poor thing... she has the best of intentions)

An astute homebuilder would present plans to his/her customers that included an open space between the kitchen and the garage that wouldn't be called a "mudroom" or a "laundry room" but a... scullery, and it would be a blank space with options that would be customized (probably at minimal cost) for how the homeowner would best use it.

Kala--I love your room! The rows of books (I assume they're cookbooks) are fantastic.

Laughable, I think you and your MIL should be consultants of how life works for the homebuilder I mention above. Thank you for sharing your examples!

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 3:09AM
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mindstorm

Why not just enclose the kitchen?! *bewildered*

If the idea behind the open kitchen is to "be with family/company" while you work and the idea behind the scullery is that you don't want to offend them with the messes generated by a working kitchen, well, my dears, I hate to tell you this but you'll be tucked away in your scullery sorting out the scullery chores.

Unless you get that scullery maid to go with the scullery.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 7:25AM
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springroz

Yes, mindstorm! I love kalapointer's room, but the idea of YET another room to deal with gives me pause to wonder why. Of course, my home is not properly staffed at present!

Nancy

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 8:24AM
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zuponcic

When I renovated my kitchen, I moved the kitchen itself to the former family room and bumped the family room into a big screened porch. That left the old kitchen, which I jokingly have called a scullery, for lack of a better word. It is like a passageway between the kitchen and the dining room. All the dishes reside there (not pots and pans) and glassware. We built a wall of storage on one side, and the other side houses a beverage refrigerator and two dishwashers (kosher kitchen) under the counter. I deliberately moved the two rather decorative sinks to the end of the counter run so that I could set up bar/hors d'oeuvres on the counter, and use the first sink, filled with ice, as a place to chill white wine or champagne. After dinner, all the dishes return here and go into the dishwasher. So, a double duty storage and clean-up area. I've tried to figure out how to do multiple pictures and can't find it. So, here's the first, and another to follow.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 10:46AM
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zuponcic

This is part of a wall of cabinets.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 10:47AM
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romy718

Laughable, too funny. I'm putting my kitchen together & imagining the same scenario for myself. Not as funny. Maybe we need two sets of all those utensils that might have made their way to the cleanup zone?

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 10:50AM
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kalapointer

Laughable, my pantry is 8' x 20'.

Peony4, those are all cookbooks and I have more in my basement.

vedazu, I love your tablecloth storage, now where can I fit one of those?

Springroz, Yes, it is another room to clean up. I have this hanging next to the pantry sink.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 2:58PM
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lavender_lass

I think all these different ideas are wonderful. So many creative possibilities....and great pictures!

A pantry, scullery, mudroom...whatever it's called, is not just for servants! I guess it could be, but for me, it's about working with an existing home and having some walls that will be difficult/expensive to remove. I don't want a small kitchen without a baking area....but I don't know that I want a large work area, either.

I think by dividing the two spaces, it gives you a main work area, where you do everyday chores...open or not, to the main living area. The back 'scullery' area could be utilitarian or 'cuter' than the main kitchen, depending on your taste. If you have a kitchen that's open to everything and has to be kind of neutral, the scullery could be a girly/baking area. Or not.

What I like is that there's an overflow/bonus space for storage and specialized activities that may not fit in a smaller kitchen. And even a larger kitchen, more on display, might benefit from a separate washing up/storage area. Again...it's not about budget...it's about function, design and/or working with the challenges of an existing floor plan :)

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Sun, Jan 12, 14 at 16:28

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 4:27PM
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motherof3sons

LL - I think this is a wonderful idea! If I could do it over again. I would seal off the back hallway and transform it to a scullery/mudroom. I have the latter used for laundry, storage of paper products, cleaning supplies & equipment, coats, shoes, etc.

Mrs. Stash reminds me of my mother. She always stashed dirty dishes in the oven. Her best friend told me that there was an incident when she forgot some in the broiler pan.

    Bookmark   January 12, 2014 at 5:14PM
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lavender_lass

Motherof3sons- Your back hall sounds like a wonderful area...so glad you included that in your home :)

    Bookmark   January 13, 2014 at 4:58PM
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lavender_lass

Mama Goose- Do you still have the picture of a scullery you posted on the Smaller Homes forum? I can't find it anywhere.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 2:06AM
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peony4

Lavender-lass, yes, you described it perfectly. It's a space separate from the kitchen--but wouldn't work in just a larger kitchen footprint. The scullery work is separate, but complementary. It's not that I would want to wall off my kitchen to incorporate a scullery. I would want the scullery separate for the tasks performed in it. We don't need to add more to the kitchen-great room space, or segregate the kitchen from the entertaining/dining area, just to get our desired scullery.

Many builders of new homes incorporate a "bonus room" that could feasibly be a home office, game room, workout room, additional bedroom, etc. Such a room could be added adjacent to the kitchen with equal flexibility.

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 2:46AM
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lavender_lass

Peony- I think that is a great idea! Your German Shepherd sounds adorable....I could just see her curled up back there.

I know the popular trend is bigger rooms, all open to each other, but so many times (in existing homes) it's so expensive...maybe a scullery could be a nice compromise. And, I am such a messy baker, it would be nice to have that space around the corner from unexpected company dropping by! LOL

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 5:52PM
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sundownr

Here's the scullery/pantry I have pinned on my pinterest board.

My current kitchen is a nice size but it doesn't have enough storage for my too-many-dishes, big pots, cake pans etc. I envision one of these in my next kitchen, :) and I want it directly behind the kitchen.

And I like the idea of venting it, too.

Traditional Kitchen by Asheville Interior Designers & Decorators Kathryn Long, ASID

Here is a link that might be useful: scullery/pantry I want

    Bookmark   January 15, 2014 at 9:42PM
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Circus Peanut

I HAVE a scullery, aka butler's pantry. It's a lovely little 8x9 room between dining room and kitchen proper.

It came with our relatively modest 1910 house, and it has the only remaining sink in the entire kitchen area. Being grumpy old-fashioned preservationistas who loathe the concept of "open space" or "great rooms", we celebrated it! Gorgeous wooden built-ins! Original slate countertops! Super cool linoleum floor! Cute little sink window! A swinging wooden door to swoon over (mind the cat)!

***forward 12 months***

.... now that I'm designing our kitchen, this scullery space utterly stymies me.

We are a 40-mumble-something couple with no children who entertain frequently, but in smaller dinner-party proportions. We're quite avid cooks with some serious & heavy utensilia. Do we seriously want/need to put a second dishwasher in?

If not, who is going to walk the 14 feet around the corner to put away the clean cast-iron pots and pans in the main kitchen? Conversely, if we unload and keep the clean dishes in the scullery, who is going to hike over around the corner from the stove when they need a spoon or bowl? Do we keep a second set of designated prep stuff in the main cooking area?

It's not unthinkable, but I'm finding it surprisingly difficult to mentally walk through a complicated dinner prep. (The fact that this kitchen has 6 indispensible doors contributes to the issue, of course, but that's another post.)

Mindstorm, as usual you've hit the nail on the head: it's one thing to imagine the space as aesthetically ideal, but quite another to actually envision functioning in it.

Thoughts & input from experienced scullery owners are warmly welcome!

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 8:59AM
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mama goose_gw zn6OH

LL, I just found your question. I've been having a computer issue--using a laptop with Windows Vista (grrrrr ...), so I can't access the pics or downloads on the other laptop. Was it from Apartment Therapy, with a window into the kitchen? I think that one was posted on this forum, too. I'll look around ...

Edited: Ooh, ooh, I think I found it!

Here is a link that might be useful: A kitchen in two parts

This post was edited by mama_goose on Sat, Jan 18, 14 at 21:54

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 9:31AM
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CEFreeman

Just found this, too.

I want to know when the stove stopped being dirty pan storage? Huh?

Or the place to come in dirty and clean up quit being a mudroom?

And why, like granite countertops, is an open concept soooo mandatory? After a fire, I had to FIGHT with several people not to NOT rebuild the internal walls. I know my habits and my then-DH's habits and knew the last thing I wanted was to walk in the door and 1) see the kitchen & its dishes, and 2) see the Den/TV room where DH lay on the couch (usually naked) and threw things on the floor when he was done with them.

Scullery sounds like an intermediate space between dirty, I'll get to it later, and where did I leave that pot or all my silverware...?

Oh, they're pretty and the pictures are lovely, but I fail to see the charm in having to clean up essentially 2 kitchens. Call me short-sighted, but truly, that's why God made stoves I never use. Or, once dinner is served, they're empty again, ready for dirty dishes.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 10:17AM
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threeapples

I don't leave dirty dishes in the sink for more than a few minutes because it grosses me out, but I would love to have a counter in my pantry to help with prep. We have a helpful butler's pantry and a very large storage closet near the dining room for all my 3-tiered trays, platters, candelabras, etc.

I love DA's kitchen and all of the service rooms featured on the show. If love to have more in my house.

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 1:24PM
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lavender_lass

Mama Goose- That is it! Thank you :)

I think a butler's pantry is usually fancier than the kitchen, since it's closer to the formal dining room. I'm guessing a scullery would be a little less fancy and more utilitarian. This is what I was thinking of doing...but everyone has different needs, wants and layout.

This is working with existing rooms and adding on a bit in the back. While some people like kitchens completely open, I just need more storage than I can fit in a smaller space. And I'd rather sit by the fire and look through cookbooks, then have a huge kitchen, when I normally don't need all that space. But it will be great for baking weekends with the nieces/nephews and harvest time in the garden.

I'd have the dishwasher next to the kitchen sink, but big pots and pans, baking mess, etc. could be back in the 'scullery' until I can get to it. Most of my baking bowls and things get washed by hand, anyway...and plates, silverware etc. can be hidden in the kitchen sink. So, when I make a huge mess, I can enjoy dinner without thinking about it too much. Out of sight, out of mind, right? :) From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Thu, Jan 16, 14 at 14:40

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 2:10PM
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springroz

I thought for a moment I had stumbled onto an OLD thread....mama goose, circus peanut, CEFreeman???? Like the olden days!!!

LL, I think that is a lovely plan! We would have the multitude of muddy boots lining the cabinets, though. It is just the way we are. Whenever you see boots in some sort of organizer, they don't seem to be CAKED with mud like ours.

Nancy

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 4:19PM
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lavender_lass

LOL! Nancy- I have a mudroom/laundry planned for the other (top) side of the scullery. Right now, when I go outside, I get 3" taller, with all the mud stuck to my boots. Same thing every year :)

    Bookmark   January 16, 2014 at 4:38PM
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rockybird

I love the design lavender lass. LOL I cant eat my dinner either if I can see dirty dishes in the sink, or anywhere in the kichen. Everything must be clean before I can eat. I am playing around with the idea of adding a walk in pantry. I am not sure if I will do it, but I admit I thought about putting a large sink in to hide the dirty dishes!

PS can I ask where you got the software to draw your plan?

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 12:35AM
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lavender_lass

Rocky- This is a revised plan that Summerfield drew for me...and the software was created by his/her niece. I think she was planning to try to market it, then changed to another career field. We all wanted to use it on the Building a Home forum!

I colored in the kitchen, using Picasa. I got the idea from Bmore and it makes it much easier to see the details. I'm glad you like it...I think it gives me all the non-kitchen functions I love, but still enough storage and work area I need for baking, etc.

Since I'm such a messy cook (and don't really want to change, because I LIKE making a mess LOL) I do need somewhere to stash my dirty dishes. This explains why I'm not allowed around oil paints...but I do love to paint walls! Only latex, easy to wash with soap and water, though. LOL

Seriously, I think a sink in your pantry sounds like a wonderful idea. It gives you the flexibility to have a clean up area, drinks area, veggie/flower space...or just fill with ice and have a party! :)

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 12:50AM
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lavender_lass

Does anyone have a glassed in courtyard? You know, building on three sides, glass on one and some skylights. Is that considered an atrium..or is that walls on all four sides?

Anyway, that's what I want to do with that little area off the dining room, against the garage. I REALLY want to grow a few climbing roses that wouldn't do well with our long zone 4 winters. So, a small patio/walkway with actual flower beds against the buildings...Is this possible? Inspiration pic...mainly of the rose :) From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Fri, Jan 17, 14 at 17:29

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 5:28PM
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bmorepanic

@rococogurl - that's spelled Tardis. The Tardis likely has a few dozen sculleries inside. Everytime I go outdoors hoping I'm hearing the Tardis, it's the d_mn police helicopter.
:)

Here is a link that might be useful: Doctor Who (BBC USA)

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 6:31PM
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cawaps

I have a scullery. Unfortunately, the sink in the scullery is the ONLY sink. AND the scullery has the only built in cabinets in the kitchen. AND it's only 6x6. The rest of the kitchen is 12x13, has a fridge and range and no built in cabinetry. I really frickin' need to remodel.

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 6:57PM
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CEFreeman

cawaps, if I can do it, you sure can! Don't forget reuse centers if you haven't got much of a budget. I recently picked up 6, 36" tall natural cherry, beaded inset cabinets for only $150. Of course, they like me, but what a steal!

Somehow, you can keep your scullery!

    Bookmark   January 17, 2014 at 8:21PM
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rockybird

Lavender Lass, the software developer is really talented. I would have bought it! I need to look into the picasso software for coloring. The other reason I want a clean up space is that I have two tiny messy parrots. Preparing dinner with them around and making their food for the next day ultimately means bird seed and food everywhere. They insist on "helping" and get into everything. It would be nice to have a place to take care of their food/dishes away from the main kitchen. I guess this makes me eccentric.

I have a mcm condo that I rent out. It has a courtyard bordered by glass on three sides. It is open above to the sky and the whole 2 floors of the condo embrace the courtyard, which opens on one side to a small yard. When I bought the place, where there was not glass, there was beautiful green vines growing up the walls with pink flowers (i dont know what it is called) everywhere. The previous owner had planted gorgeous flowers in pots all around the courtyard with an elaborate drip system. It looked just stunning. Unfortunately, the HOA made me remove the green vines and the flowers all died. I hear the tenant has a green thumb and I suspect it looks gorgeous again. I highly recommend this if you can do it.

    Bookmark   January 18, 2014 at 4:08PM
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lavender_lass

Rocky- Thank you! That sounds like a lovely garden area. I hope it's grown back :)

Parrots...if they're anything like my cats they love to 'help' at the most inconvenient times! LOL I don't think that makes you eccentric at all, it just makes you a good owner. I plan out my kitty boxes, food for outdoor barn kitties and storage for horse grain in EVERY plan I consider.

    Bookmark   January 19, 2014 at 11:06PM
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rockybird

Hi Lavender Lass,

I saw this scullery on houzz.com and thought of you. It's so bright and inviting.

Traditional Kitchen by Weston Architects & Designers Oak Hill Architects

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 3:01PM
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rockybird
    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 3:05PM
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lavender_lass

Those are cute! Thanks for posting :)

That second kitchen (blue island) looks so familiar. Was that on Houzz, too?

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 5:07PM
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rockybird

Sure! The second pic is from houzz also. If you click on it, it will take you to more images, although there arent any great pics of the scullery.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2014 at 6:30PM
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NashvilleBuild42

In our new house we will have a small kitchen 11*10 but there will be a relatively generous pantry of 7 by 11. It will be vented, but have no sink or dishes. Instead, we will keep the majority of our small appliances except a stick blender, food processor and blender. Everything else : waffle maker, breville oven, mw and a freezer column will be in the pantry. This way we can have have a small fridge in the main galley kitchen which allows us to keep the area open, light filled.

Even after reading this thread The notion of seperated cleanup 14 ft away from the cooking puzzles me. Then again, a butler pantry without dishwasher, sink, bar and ice machine also puzzles me.

I do enjoy the pictures though :)

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 4:53AM
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rockybird

I am in the process of designing a scullery to add to a kitchen. The kitchen is very open to the rest of the house and flanked by walls of glass, so everything in the kitchen is visible. There is also not a lot of cabinet storage space. I dont think I will be adding a dw but I will be adding a large sink, counterspace, storage and a place to hang coats, as it will be near the carport entry. I will design at least one cabinet so that it can be removed to place a dw, but I already have two built in dw's in the main kitchen (Maybe I will remove one and place it in the scullery).. My space will be 6-6.5 ft. wide x 9.5 ft long.

Nashvillebuild42, why arent you adding a sink? If you have a dw in there, I would think a sink would be helpful?

Do you have pics of your design? WHen the architect is done with mine, I can post pics.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 9:56AM
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NashvilleBuild42

Rocky. I'm sorry I must have typed something misleading this morning. We're keeping the dishes in the kitchen so we only need the sink and DW drawers in the kitchen. In our pantry we will just have shelves of dried lentils,beans,grains, apples squashes etc. plus a freezer column and the breville toaster oven waffle maker crockpot, unwieldy pans or bakeware and the like.

I understand if you stored dishes in either a scullery or butlers pantry why you would need a DW and sink in there or if it's a spice kitchen.... But for the most part I have a hard time envisioning how some of the kitchens and sculleries are used. Then again I delegate cleanup to the husband and usually stand around with a drink and talk to him as he cleans. A scullery doesn't seem conducive to chatting, imo. Then again I can't imagine living in a 6000 sq ft home either so I'm not sure my opinion matters much on this :).

For example, looking on houzz I found a very open traditional colonial. The dining room was rather large I'd guess 15*18. The kitchen was even larger 18 by 21 or so? And then behind the kitchen was a long narrow scullery. But my confusion arose from the fact that the dining room had a huge display of china. Then the kitchen had cabinets of more casual dishes.. Then there was a 2 entry scullery with huge industrial sink and two more DW. But they didn't have any dishes in there and only the rather large staub and Stockpots. It just seemed like a very awkward design with tons of walking an gathering things to cook and put away. I would be pretty confused where I was supposed to clean what. I'd also dislike the really close off feeling of being in a room alone doing menial grunt work? :) I'd much rather sit on the counter with a glass of wine and talk to my DH as he does that? Although I guess I could do that in a scullery too...

Anyway, I was trying to understand the appeal. And I appreciate your answer.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 12:37PM
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NashvilleBuild42

Oh and we haven't finalized any plans yet. Probably another 4-6 weeks but once we have plans I'll be posting for a critique on kitchen and pantry.

Do post yours! I appreciate learning from others' designs.

This post was edited by NashvilleBuild42 on Sun, Feb 16, 14 at 12:42

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 12:40PM
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CEFreeman

I'm loving the Eye Candy on this thread!
Thanks! ;)

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 1:14PM
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lavender_lass

I think a scullery is like a kitchen (or any other room) they are not one size fits all :)

For me, a scullery sink would be for big pots and pans to soak, until I can get to them the next morning and the dishes would be done in the dishwasher in the kitchen....closer to the dining room.

Most of the scullery pictures I've really liked have a pantry/scullery close to the range. So handy and easy to keep the kitchen looking nicer during parties, etc. and still have a great place to clean up the 'big mess' that I have, when I cook! LOL

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 3:40PM
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rockybird

Thanks NashvilleBuild42! I think I misunderstood. You will have no dw in the scullery. I agree that the sink does seem redundant, but I have to agree with Lavender Lass also.

I'm still debating about the scullery thing. I hope Lavender Lass doesnt mind if I post a pic of what I came up with. It is the aisle where the boots are. I think I can get the walkway to 40" (52" where the boots/jackets go), but unfortunately, I'm limited on how wide it can be. The architect liked it and is working on refining it. My kitchen is small for this size of house, so I think the scullery will be a great place for clean-up, hang coats and put boots, storage, etc. I also have two dw drawers, but I'm thinking of moving one to the scullery.

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 6:53PM
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laughablemoments

Rockybird, your drawing made me laugh with those little boots in the scullery. How cute! I remember one of my kitchen iterations having little shoes sketched in it, too. : )

Are you going to put in some kind of pass through from the main kitchen to the counter behind it in the scullery area? I think that would work better than carrying everything around the wall. Of course, if you are in the kitchen in the midst of cooking and need something from the scullery...then you might still have to do the run-around. (For a full demo, see my post up-thread. Sigh.)

    Bookmark   February 16, 2014 at 9:18PM
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rockybird

Thanks Laughable! LOL@the boots. I really appreciate your thoughts and I see your point in the post above.

If I am going to minimize the construction, I dont think I can make another access door. A lot of the food prep actually happens on the counterspace and not the island, partly because the island is solid walnut and I'm scared of damaging it, so the scullery might be more accessible. I think I either have to leave it as is or dont add a scullery at all. I havent completely decided. Maybe the architect will come up with something innovative.

    Bookmark   February 17, 2014 at 1:15AM
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