Trane XL16i

solexAugust 9, 2012

Hello all,

I am new to this forum. I live outside of New Orleans, Louisiana. I am looking to replace my old and failing a/c with a newer Trane model. Below is what I have been quoted:

4.0 TON TRANE SYSTEM MOD XL16i

CONDENSER 4TTX6048 12 years Compressor

FURNACE GAS TUD2C080A9V4 10 yrs parts, labor

EVAPORATOR COIL 4TXCC060BC3

TRANE THERMOSTAT 803XL16 , 900 XL20

ADDITIONAL FLUE PIPE TO RAISE 18" ABOVE ROOF

SEAL RETURN AIR FIRSTFLOOR MAKE NEW RETURN AIR PLENUM DUCTBOARD

INLINE FLOAT SWITCH

SECONDARY EMERGENCY PAN

CONNECT PVC TUBING AND INSULATE

CONNECT HIGH AND LOW VOLTAGE TO CONDENSER AND FURNACE

NEW ELECTRICAL WHIP TO CONDENSER

NEW CONDENSER PAD

FLUSH NEW REFRIGERANT LINES AND INSULATE

SECONDRY FLOAT SWITCH

SEAL SIDE RETURN TO ELIMINATE AIR LEAKS

NEW DISTRIBUTION PLENUM SHEETMETAL, INSTALL NEW DUCTWORK R-6, NEW STARTING COLLARS WITH DAMPERS.

"CLEANEFFECTS" HOME FILTRATION SYSTEM Free

Total: $ 10,523.00

Does this price seem reasonable? I know a lot of variables need to be considered, but I just wanted to receive some feedback ( sorry for "all-CAPS" I just copy and paste from the proposal)

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tigerdunes

Solex

Typical Trane pricing.

You are replacing a 4 ton system?

You want to verify that existing lineset is the correct size for new XL16i if you intend to flush and reuse. A big deal and detail not to be overlooked.

Any hot/cold spots in home need to be addressed.

Don't care for the 803 stat. Would want HW VP IAQ for true furnace staging.

Insist on R8 insulation. The cost difference should be inconsequential.

Not a fan of CleanEffects filter. Prefer the pleated filter media cabinet. Reason? Most homeowners will not adhere to cleaning/maintenance schedule which is problematic.

And finally, I would want a completive quote on same equipment from Trane's sister company American Standard.

IMO

    Bookmark   August 9, 2012 at 7:10AM
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hikker

Perhaps the most important line item of quote, (the labor warranty) I do not see. I encouage you as consumer to strongly consider new system reliability along with system efficiency when selecting. Trane equipment includes parts warranty only, not labor warranty. Trane labor warranty is available at additional cost. Also, I encourage you to read and make very sure you understand the small print of labor warranty terms. Don't assume, unless stated, that the labor warranty is comprehensive. Labor warranties sometimes include the labor cost of replacing a component but exclude the cost of freon, the cost of a truck roll for a service call, etc.

I emphasize labor warranty because the price to consumer of labor to replace a failed HVAC component can easily dwarf the price of the failed component.

I speak of this from limited experience. As consumer, I researched 3 years ago, for replacement HVAC system. I read this msg board extensively and chose to have installed 2 Trane XR13 systems. I chose "simplier systems" in favor of reliability banking heavily on Trane quality & reliability reputation. Less than 3 years after installation one system experienced evap. Coil failure (i.e. leak) and while coil part covered by warranty, labor to install is not warranty covered and cost me a few dollars less than $1,200.

I wrote on this msg. board critically of Trane reliability and of the pain I felt from the expense of relacing a Finally, other msg. boards are available providing additional insight into Trane (and competitor's hardware) customer satisfaction regarding reliability. Educate yourself to increase the probability of equipment and installation that will satisfy your needs for performance & reliability.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2012 at 10:42AM
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tigerdunes

Ext warranty cost is normally no more than 10% of your equipment installed price. Not including ductwork. Should not be more than $750..

I am sorry for previous poster's experience. He has been bashing Trane and I suspect there is more to his story than we know. Every mfg has lemons from all brands. Even Trane. This may have been an install issue. But even at that I question the high repair price. Most Trane dealer's I know would go to bat for the customer in a situation described above.

IMO

    Bookmark   August 9, 2012 at 11:03AM
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ryanhughes

Hey tigerdunes -

Can you explain how the 803 stages the 2-stage furnace differently from the VP IAQ? Does the algorithm differ (i.e. the IAQ uses a smarter PID logic) in some way? I know the IAQ is recommended in dual fuel situations since the 802/803 can't stage the backup heat, but I was under the impression the 803 was a fine choice for 2-stage furnaces, air conditioners, or heat pumps.

I was curious about this as I've seen you recommend against the 803 in a previous post for a 2-stage furnace, and thought this question may be relevant to the OP as well.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2012 at 2:52PM
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energy_rater_la

I'm not getting into the brand thing.

but...why R-6 ductwork? I know we
here in La. get away with R-6..but
we put our ducts in attics and crawlspaces.
neither are very good locations.
ask contractor to bid with R-8 ducts
price isn't much higher, labor is the same.

on an average, we find 30% duct loss. 30%
of your air leaking out of ducts and return before
entering the house.

the bid reflects return air sealing..but
no supply sealing.
I'd insist on mastic seal of all ducts.
not foil tape, not duct tape but either
paint on mastic or true mastic tape
like hardcast brand 1402.

are you sure you need 4 tons? did contractor
do a load calc?

if you seal the house, then less tons of air
is required.
New Orleans is packed with energy raters.
call one and have a diagnostic performed
on your house. fix the house, then size hvac.
have house and ductwork retested when work
is complete.

here is a link to the state's program for
existing homes.

http://dnr.louisiana.gov/assets/TAD/programs/residential/hero/HERO_Applicant_Guidelines_Original.pdf

there are several raters that have been in business
for over a decade. experience in existing homes
is very important. talk to several before making a choice.

as N.O. is not my area I don't know who is still
working that area.

best of luck.

    Bookmark   August 10, 2012 at 11:52AM
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athomesewing

We are sitting in a pile of proposals on various brands to replace our 4-ton heat pump system.

The first brand we ruled out was Trane, when we were told by the Trane dealer/contractor that Trane would not honor their warranty on products unless we could prove that annual maintenance was done by a licensed HVAC service provider.

We see this as a scam to push us into an annual maintenance agreement. Either way, the warranty language is ridiculous and could be argued that a licensed service provider must also operate the equipment.

The very poorly written Trane warranty states under "Eligibility Requirements":

"The Products must be properly installed operated, and maintained by a licensed HVAC service provider in accordance with the Product specifications or installation, operation and maintenance instructions provided by Company with each Product. Failure to conform to such specifications and/or instructions shall void this limited warranty. Company may request written documentation showing the proper preventative maintenance."

The quotes were:

$10,545 for:
Trane XB14 3.5 ton 15.25 SEER, 9.0 HSPF SHRI #5495301
4TWB4042G1000A - Outdoor unit, new lineset & line hide
TAM7A0C48H41SB- Variable Speed Air Handler, 15 kw Heat Strip
Programmable thermostat (unspecified model) and Start Assist Kit
Use existing electronic filter

OR

Trane XL15i 3.5 ton heat pump
15.25 SEE, 9.0 HSPF AHRI #: 5496521
4TWX5042B1000A-Outdoor unit, new lineset & line hide
TAM7A0C48H41SB- Variable Speed Air Handler, 15 kw Heat Strip
Programmable thermostat (unspecified model) and Start Assist Kit
Use existing electronic filter

    Bookmark   August 12, 2012 at 7:02PM
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tigerdunes

Hyjacking threads is considered poor forum etiquette. Start your own thread and repost the above.

Thx

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 6:50AM
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energy_rater_la

hijacking threads is poor etiquette.
AS IS ALL CAPS...LOL!

there is someone else who has
multiple threads and is also
hijacking threads left and right.

apparently etiquette doesn't apply
to some.

kinda sad IMO

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 11:02AM
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tigerdunes

Where is the like button to respond to above post?...

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 11:04AM
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energy_rater_la

located next to the unlike button that
should be on fb!

    Bookmark   August 13, 2012 at 12:13PM
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solex

Thanks to have that have given valuable input, it is greatly appreciated. Sorry for the late reply.
Tigerdunes: I currently have a 2.5 ton system, for about 1250 sqft, and I plan on adding another 380sqft when I convert the garage to a den area. I have one room tends to be a little warmer in the summer. I will definitely insist on R8 duct-work. I will also seek a competitive bid, as far quality from American Standard and Trane is there any major difference? Is the HW VP IAQ, I can as an aftermarket item, or something I can request from the installer? Any basic price increase?

Hikker: I have a 10 year parts and labor warranty.

Energy_rater_La: I will ask for R8 duct work. As stated before, I currently have a 2.5 ton system, for about 1250 sqft, and I plan on adding another 380sqft when I convert the garage to a den area.

    Bookmark   December 17, 2012 at 2:08PM
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