Miele 4842 trouble...wrinkling, stiffness

shannonazJanuary 29, 2012

I have faith that I can love my Miele washer and dryer if I learn how to make them work for me but right now I am starting to hate them :) I wanted to get some advice here before calling Miele tech because I have had a really hard time with them in the past and I like to have a clue first.

I have owned these machines for over a year but am just now taking the time to ask for help here.

My clothes are getting clean. I have used several different detergents and these problems don't seem related to detergent but I am willing to be schooled. We have hard water and I am using 2Tbl of Tide Free HE liquid. I bought some different German detergents when I was in Germany last summer for fun but I like the Tide best.

When I first got the machine I destroyed several wool and cashmere sweaters by washing them on cold/no spin (I forget which cycle, delicate or silk?). These are sweaters that I washed successfully for years in my Kenmore FL. with the same detergent(s) My silk camisoles come out stiff as a board no matter what I do. I was shocked the first time I washed my linen sweaters in the Miele when THEY were stiff and crunchy. I now dry-clean a lot more.

The thing that has driven me to post here is the wrinkling. Every.Single.Thing I wash in the Miele has to be ironed. This has been workable for me because ironing is by far my favorite chore but enough is enough! For many years my laundry habit has been to wash most clothes and then put them in the dryer for about 7 minutes to get the wrinkles out and then air-dry them. I can't figure out how to get my clothes very warm or hot in the Miele 9802 unless they are already dry, so that may be part of the problem, but clothes come out extremely wrinkly out of the wash. I have experimented with tiny loads, it hasn't helped.

I often use normal plus sensitive for everyday clothes. I would love to use the Miele for handwash and cashmere, silk and linen like I did in my Kenmore for years and years.

Thank you so much for any advice you may have for me!

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You are using Tide on the cashmere and silk? Step away from the Tide bottle. Now. The protein-focused enzyme (protease) in Tide will slowly eat away and ruin these fibers, because silk, wool, cashmere are all protein-based fibers.

* Do you know exactly how "hard" your water is? I thought we have hard water here, but it is labeled "moderately hard" and with our Miele washer I ~must~ use 1/4 dose of whatever the product suggests, or my laundry comes out crunchy, scratchy and horrible.

Which Mieles do you have? I have the Miele W4842 and washed cashmere and lambswool sweaters very successfully, several times, with the Woolens cycle. I love that cycle! I put them in my Miele dryer on the Woolens setting, then lay them flat to finish drying.

I use the Persil "Perwoll" on the wool sweaters. For my husband's wool blend machine-washable trousers, as well as my silk things, I use all Small & Mighty "free" HE liquid. No enzymes in that, at all. The all OXI-Active "free"version does have enzymes. I called them and asked.

I also use the Woolite "Extra Dark Care" formula on those wool blend trousers because it has no enzymes, either. Again, I know because I called them and asked. The silk pieces that I've washed in both the above detergents & dried in our T9802 had no problems and come out very soft.

FWIW, I never realized how much detergent residue/buildup was in our clothing, from our old conventional water-hog TL washer, until I got the Miele FL. For some reason, detergent issues become very evident, very quickly, with this washer.

I don't have wrinkling problems with our Mieles, unless the laundry load is large and fills up 3/4 of the washer drum. That much laundry in the dryer's drum will come out of the dryer wrinkled because things are packed in there so tightly. Most of my laundry loads are 1/2 to 2/3 full in the washer. We have no more wrinkles from the dryer, than I had with the old TL washer/conventional set.

    Bookmark   January 29, 2012 at 10:10PM
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I was reading this post in disbelief (no offence to the OP). I've been very happy with my Miele machines (W4842/T9822) for close to a year.

One of the things I most admire about the washer is how beautifully it handles dry clean only items. I've washed many dry clean only pants and tops in mine using the handwash or delicates cycle and gentle detergent (like Miele Delicate Wash).

As @Cavimum states, never wash wool or silk with an enzyme detergent. You are best to use a detergent made for them. As many (like the Miele Delicate Wash) also contain special proteins that keep the wool feeling great. Miele also "contains a color protection factor, even on poor dyes which risk running."

I washed a load of my pyjamas this afternoon. They are all cotton (some are jersey, some are crisper cotton). I used the wrinkle free setting and my Miele Ultra Color powder detergent. Some vinegar in the rinse. Warm wash, high spin.

When they were done washing I ran them in the dryer on the 15 minute cold setting. I hung them to dry after that and they don't have one wrinkle in them.

I've done that with my dry clean only items as well. As soon as they are done I run them on the 15 minute cold dryer setting before hanging. Some of those items do need a little pressing after but they are not a wrinkled mess.

The air fluffing really helps dewrinkle items you are going to hang to dry.

If I have a large load, sometimes I break it into two drying loads. This ensures it has plenty of room to tumble and come out wrinkle free.

Be aware that using your "normal" setting on your Miele will not engage the heater. If you want to guarantee your temperature (whether warm, very warm, hot or sanitary) you need to use another program.

I haven't had anything come out bad. I've been happy with everything I've washed so far. I'm ironing obsessed, so I'd be unhappy with wrinkly things.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 12:10AM
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I absolutely haven't used Tide on handwash items. I have tried several different washes/detergents in the Miele including the Perwoll I always used in my old machine. I washed quality cashmere items for years with no problems.

Thank you for the info about the "normal" setting. I like to use very warm for a lot of loads (is this too hot??) so I used the custom settings for my load this morning.

What could be wrong with this machine? I am very, very frustrated.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 9:57AM
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Other than checking whether your water quality has changed (have you moved?), I really don't have any suggestions other than what has already been said which is: make sure you use appropriate amounts and types of detergent, select cycles appropriate to your loads, don't overload, take your loads out as soon as the cycle stops and shake the items out before loading into the dryer.

Just curious what exactly happened to your sweaters in the Miele washer? Did they felt? Shrink? Stretch? Got holes? Something else? I wash my wool and cashmere sweaters in my front loader on Hand Wash cycle and they come out great. I do use low spin and then dry them flat on towels.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 6:41PM
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"as the cycle stops and shake the items out before loading into the dryer"

I was doing laundry today and this thought popped into my head too. I always shake each item out before putting them into the dryer. Makes a difference.

"I like to use very warm for a lot of loads (is this too hot??)"

I suppose it depends what you're washing. I use this temp more than hot but it depends on what I'm washing what temp I select.

My most used programs seem to be wrinkle free, custom and extra white. I do use, when required, delicates, hand wash, woolens, outerwear, clean machine, comforters (love this one). I always use sensitive for the extra rinse.

I dose detergent very carefully. With newer front loaders there is very little water so they are not as forgiving to wrong doses. Too much and too little can really affect your outcome.

I've been using the Miele Care detergents for a while now and really love my results. I read this re: Miele Ultra Color powder; "Its low-alkaline composition keeps fabrics soft and gentle." I do not have an issue with stiff or scratchy items. I use fabric softener (Miele or Downy Free) only occasionally.

Perhaps you need a Miele tech to come out. Your results do not fit with my experience with my machine.

    Bookmark   January 30, 2012 at 7:52PM
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Thank you for the feedback...
I got used to the quirks and detergent needs of front loaders after using my Kenmore front-loader for 6 years. I don't think I am using too much detergent. I have tried several, including German powders, and it hasn't made any difference. I do feel like my clothes are getting clean. (Including active kid-clothes with actual dirt on them :)I don't mind trying the Miele detergents but I struggle to understand how that would help with the wrinkling.

When a load is done all my clothes are tightly wound together and twisted. What would contribute to that? Too little water? Too much water? Delicates don't get spun and have the same problem so it shouldn't be spin speed.

What can a tech do to diagnose the problem, I wonder?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 10:38AM
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I don't think detergent will help with wrinkling - I was commenting because you complained your things felt stiff and crunchy.

Your experience with your machine is very different than mine (or others on this forum). Leads me to think something isn't right with your machine or your expectations are vastly different than mine.

You haven't explained how exactly your machine ruined your sweaters. I can't picture that knowing how beautifully it's washed my delicates.

As someone obsessed with pressed things (I even iron my tea towels) I would be very particular about wrinkles. How can I not have a problem and you do?

You say everything needs to be ironed - is this after drying in the dryer or after hang drying?

When my wash cycle is complete, my items are all mushed together too. Very seldom is anything twisted up (the odd time when I wash my husband's dress shirts a couple sleeves might tangle).

I remove one item at a time and shake it before putting it into the dryer. This makes a big difference to how they dry. The high RPM spin causes items to sandwich together (as in any machine with a higher RPM spin).

If I'm hang drying something, I remove it from the washer, shake it and put it in the dryer on 15 cold (air only). Once I hang the items to dry they are wrinkle free. I still usually iron items as I like them crisp.

Not sure what other advice there is to give.

Have you tried the wrinkle free setting? A lower RPM spin will cause less wrinkling. I use this setting for a lot, including my husband's dress shirts which after I shake and air fluff dry beautifully. They still need to be pressed obviously but they are not very wrinkled.

As for your dryer, my Miele dryer (gas version T9822) will run for a few minutes before the heating will kick on. I can actually hear when the gas engages. Although, I find the 15 min cold cycle enough to fluff items to be hung to dry.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 10:59AM
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Everything is extremely wrinkly even after 10 minutes in the dryer. I will diligently shake out every item before putting them in the dryer and then drying them for 15 minutes. The wrinkles are small, deep wrinkles in everything including knits. Before using this washer/dryer I only ironed woven fabrics.

My cashmere sweaters were ruined when they shrank by two sizes. My merino wool sweaters shrank and felted. Some loads were Perwoll and some were Ecover. I tried different cold/low or no spin combos using delicates and silk settings. It is possible I used too much detergent I use around 2Tbl. Clothes washed on delicate are very very crunchy and stiff. I have tried running them through again with no detergent to account for possibly using too much detergent. My regular clothes come out clean and soft enough but very wrinkly. I have never had any clothes ruined with holes, rips or unexplained stains.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 11:14AM
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Are your water connections hooked up correctly? Hot to hot and cold to cold? Are your items cold when you remove them?

I'm asking as too high heat would explain a shrinking sweater and set in wrinkles.

I've washed several dry clean only items and nothing shrank at all.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 11:52AM
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Would it be easy enough to check? I just pull the washer out and check the connections? My plumber will be coming by for something else in the near future, is this something for him to check?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 12:34PM
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Can you see your connections without pulling out the washer? Mine are done high up on the wall so I can see them. The Miele metal hoses are marked (red lines on the hot line and blue lines on the cold line). They should be connected correctly to the corresponding hot or cold line.

Another way to check if you can't see is to run a load. The items at the end should feel very cold as they are rinsed in cold water. If they feel hot or very warm than I suspect your lines are reversed.

This would explain why when you think you are selecting a cold wash you would get a hot wash and ruin a delicate item. It would also set wrinkles as you'd be rinsing in hot water (3 times with sensitive selected) instead of cold.

I almost hope this is your problem - it sure would explain it.

Let us know what you discover and good luck!

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 1:12PM
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~Could it be possible that the internal water heater is engaging when it should not?~

That is the only thing I can think of that would cause the sweater to shrink. These machines are computers that wash clothes and we have to remember that. My computerized sewing machines do weird things, too, from time to time.

I'm wondering about the water connections, too.

FL washers aren't supposed to be able to 'felt' wool. Most people who do felting keep an old top load washer around. They say the harsh agitation helps with the felting, while a FL is too gentle. No personal experience with it at my end, though.

An easy way to check your incoming water, as far as whether they're hooked up correctly--- with no soap or laundry, run a Delicates cycle on COLD or NO HEAT, or whichever cycle you wash the sweaters. I suggest this cycle because there is a nice high fill of water, but you can use any cycle, even Express. Once it fills and begins to tumble, "Pause" the cycle and feel the water temp. If it is hot, then your hoses are connected improperly.

Let the wash cycle continue until right before it should rinse (you may have to time some real loads to get the timing down). "Pause" again, open the door, and check the water temp. If it was cold, but is now warm/hot, then the internal heater is probably engaging when it should not be engaging.

You still need to find out your water hardness/softness rating. Seriously. Do the homework. Pick up the phone and call the water company, and ask how many grains. Someone there will know, and then tell us here. You might be using too much detergent for your Miele.

My neighbor down the street tosses full doses of detergent into her Duet and has no complaints. It must use more water, or something. My Miele is picky and only wants 1/4 to 1/3 dose or I get scratchy, crunchy clothes & sheets.

WHICH model Miele washer do you have?

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 2:03PM
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@Cavimum, here post title says 4842.

If it's not a hot water thing, I'm stumped.

But it is NOT acting as Miele intended it to and she should most definitely call for service. I sure would.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 2:32PM
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As to the wrinkling and the loads being all tangled, I think you may be overloading your washer (and dryer). I have noticed that large loads of clothes with long sleeves and long pant legs (esp. knits, like leggings, yoga pants, long sleeve T-shirts, turtlenecks, etc.) tangle a lot in any front loader. In the summer, I have almost no tangling, but in the winter I have to make my loads smaller to prevent tangling. A load that is too big for the washer will also be too big for the dryer - it will dry but will be wrinkled. So try washing smaller loads.

What capacity was your Kenmore and what capacity is your Miele?

As to silk being stiff, I think it's just a function of the fabric. My husband wears silk Hawaiian shirts in the summer and they do get stiff when hung to dry but after ironing they soften nicely again.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 6:23PM
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I really appreciate all the trouble-shooting help!
I don't remember the exact capacity of my Kenmore FL but it was most definitely smaller than the Miele. I compared the capacities before purchasing the new set.

I have verified that my hot and cold water lines are hooked up correctly. I am bummed that it isn't an easy answer!

I think large loads may be contributing to the wrinkling problem, I will try smaller loads. I have experimented with that in the past but I will try again! I actually weighed my loads to make sure they didn't exceed the recommendations in the manual. Oh well!

I have only been washing towels today but I did check the dryer after 15 minutes rather than my usual 10 and the towels were warm! Taking stuff out of the dryer warm (rather than cool/cold) should help my situation.

I can accept that all my problems are caused by user error but it is still frustrating that my new expensive FL is so much more finicky than my old FL. Grr!

Nothing explains the ruined cashmere. I have a cashmere sweater that I put in the Goodwill bag because of extensive moth damage. I will attempt to wash that with Ecover tomorrow. Any suggestions for which program to run?

Silk and linen did not come out crunchy and stiff in my old FL, sigh.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 6:54PM
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Oops... my bad... sorry for not noticing the model. Gah... old age is heck.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 6:55PM
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Your ruined sweaters may be inexplained by using an incorrect cycle. Delicate cycle in my opinion is not the right cycle to be washing wool or cashmere sweaters. Do you have a special Hand Wash or Wool cycle? The delicate cycle does use more water and spins slower which is good for delicate items, but the tumbling is similar to Normal cycle which is still too much for sweaters. Agitation/tumbling will cause felting and shrinkage of wool and cashmere unless it is true superwash wool which has been specially treated to be machine washed and tumble dried - I knit a lot so I know what I'm talking about. I knit socks in superwash wool and they go through a regular wash and dry cycles with other clothes. But my sweaters get washed on Hand Wash/Wool cycle. Anything other than that causes felting. A true hand wash/wool cycle has long periods of soaking with minimal tumbling and then a low speed spin. Try that next time and wash only a few sweaters at a time (3-4).

As to load sizes, while the washer can handle loads up to the stated weight and will clean them, washing clothes at full capacity will definitely cause tangling and wrinkling. I load my washer up to 3/4 of the drum (dry) when washing clothes. Larger loads still come out clean but definitely more tangled and then the dryer struggles with them too.

Good luck and let us know if you see any improvement.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 8:01PM
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The W4842 has a designated "Woolens" cycle (Items made from washable wool or mixed woolens).

Have you used that?

The drum rythms of the various cycles can be very different (as @izeve points out).

Handwash just swishes but Delicates has a stronger tumble.

I can't remember what Woolens does.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 8:19PM
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"Woolens" mostly sits there with occasional tumbling. I love that cycle for our wool our cashmere sweaters.

    Bookmark   January 31, 2012 at 9:50PM
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@shannonaz, I stumbled on this article today and thought of you. Maybe some of this advice can help you.

They give advice on using smaller loads for different fabrics/materials. It's from the UK, they seem to be more detailed there when it comes to laundry and their machines.

Anyway, I hope this can help you. Please post back and let us know how it's going. It's always nice to hear updates :)

Here is a link that might be useful: Laundry comes out of washing machine badly creased?

    Bookmark   February 2, 2012 at 5:49PM
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@livebetter, I will read that- thank you!

I tried a tiny load yesterday on the wrinkle-free cycle...and I got a ton of wrinkles. I shook each item (about 4 medium mens T-shirts) before putting it in the dryer. Good news is that 15 minutes in the dryer rather than my usual 10 really helped smooth out the wrinkles. I hung them up in the closet after line-drying. We shall see if they are smooth enough for me once my husband puts one on.

I am going to try washing that cashmere sweater this weekend and I will report back!

    Bookmark   February 4, 2012 at 10:54AM
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@ shannonaz

Your profile says you are in Tempe. I'm in Buckeye. My water currently measures 23 grains/gallon - extremely hard. At times my hardness goes up to 42 grains, which is basically off the charts. I would expect your water to be similar - definitely on the hard/extremely hard end of the spectrum. I do not think you are using enough detergent. I have a whole house water softener which reduces my hardness to ZERO, and I use about 1/2 the detergent manufacturer's recommendation. If you are using 2 TBS of Tide HE, that is roughly 1/2 the detergent manufacturer's recommended dose, but you should be using much more given the calcium content of your water.

The Miele user manual states that stiff fabrics are due to INSUFFICIENT detergent. I would double your detergent quantity immediately and test. If your clothes are stiff due to insufficient detergent, they are also trapping calcium and other nasties in the fibers which would be contributing to shrinkage, wrinkling, and any number of other issues - not to mention the fact that your wash drum may be accumulating dirt and residue along with your fabrics.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2012 at 1:02PM
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If sshrivastava is right about your water hardness and if you do not have a water softener in the house, then I absolutely agree with him about detergent dosing. Looking at dosing instructions for European detergents I have in my stash, they recommend significantly increasing detergent dose for hard water (for example, the Persil liquid instructions say to use 35 ml for soft water or 52 ml for the same load in hard water). You could also try products designed to soften water in your laundry. I believe Calgon makes one.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 6:15AM
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When I posted "You still need to find out your water hardness/softness rating. Seriously. Do the homework. Pick up the phone and call the water company, and ask how many grains. Someone there will know, and then tell us here. "
we still have not been told the answer.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 8:57AM
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The most current City of Tempe info on water hardness:
typical: 9.8 grains/gallon
range: 8.8-23.4 grains/gallon

I realize that you couldn't know this but I have been doing laundry in hard Arizona water for 20 years, no need for rudeness over whether I have done "my homework" I have researched our water hardness on several occasions. What I do NOT have experience with is using a Miele washing machine, which is why I am here. Does a Miele really handle hard water that much more poorly than other front-loaders??

I have made my own detergent additives and tried many brands of detergent (including detergents from Germany) and quantities over the years I feel like I have a handle on it? The Tide liquid seems to work just as well with no strong smell and it's available at the grocery store :)My regular clothes, including heavily soiled kids clothes, are getting clean. I am open to adjusting detergent quantities but I have tried many quantities and types over the last year. My clothes are just very very wrinkly and my silk and linen are stiff. I have destroyed cashmere. This happened within the first few loads in my new Miele after success in my Kenmore. While I understand that water hardness changes over time, it seems like too much of a coincidence that my water hardness went up dramatically the day I got my Miele to a level that it had never been over the seven previous years while I was using another FL and that the water hardness has not dropped in the year since I got my Miele.

I will experiment with doubling the detergent in a few loads. It's my delicates that are stiff, maybe they need extra detergent. Lately I have been using the same amount (of a different detergent) for delicates that I do with regular loads and I felt like it was probably too much because the delicate loads are so much smaller...

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 11:43AM
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@ shannonaz

If you didn't have any issues with your Kenmore FL but are now having issues with your Miele using the same type and quantity of detergent, then we need to narrow the investigation to look at what's different between these two machines. The most significant aspect, in my opinion, is the amount of water used by each machine. That would have a direct impact on whether you are delivering enough - or too much - detergent to your fabrics.

Unfortunately, it's almost impossible to figure out how much water is used in any given cycle unless the manufacturers disclose such information. If all we have at our disposal is trial-and-error, then we must start somewhere. Let's assume that the stiffness is caused by excess detergent in your laundry, but that you are using the same type and amount of detergent as before. Did your Kenmore handle the same volume of laundry as your Miele? If so, it's quite possible the Miele is using less water than your Kenmore. This would explain why your cashmere items are coming out ruined - delicates need much more water to cushion the fibers. Cashmere is wool and should only be washed on the Miele "wool" cycle which uses a ton of water.

Using your current detergent dose as a baseline, try using 1/2 the amount you are currently using and see if that makes a difference. If you notice an improvement, keep going in that direction. If you notice a worsening of the problem, then increase the dose from the baseline on your next load and check again. This is really the only way you are going to be able to find what works for you. You should have your answer pretty quickly.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 12:16PM
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Since "wrinkly" is subjective I thought I would post some photos of what I have been considering "wrinkly". Maybe I am just crazy or unreasonable. What do you guys think? This load was small, just a few light t shirts and socks.

Thanks to some info on this thread I have been drying clothes for 15+ minutes before line-drying. It has helped immensely, but these shirts will still need ironing.

I now have that cashmere sweater washing on the "woolen" cycle. I will report back!

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 12:42PM
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What cycle and spin speed were these done at - so I can compare to my own machine.

What was the max spin speed of your previous machine compared to the max spin of the Miele (which I believe is 1400 rpm).

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 12:55PM
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I would agree that is "wrinkly." I also posted about too many wrinkles when I first got my Mieles (after having a Kemore HE washer). A year later, I don't have as many problems.

The biggest problem was that the hot and cold water hoses were reversed (and I paid for professional installation). The secondary problem was too much volume of clothes. The third was too high rpm's for certain fabrics.

Not being a "laundryologist" I don't have much else to offer, but I hope that helps somewhat.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 1:08PM
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@ shannonaz

Did that shirt come out of the dryer like that, or is it still wet? It looks a little damp in the pic. Either way, I've never had clothes come out of the machine wrinkled that badly unless I totally stuffed the machine. The wrinkling also looks suspiciously similar to the honeycomb pattern in the drum. If I had to guess, I'd say this shirt came out of a load where the machine was stuffed far too full of clothes and spun at maximum 1,400 spin speed.

Even after filling your machine to capacity, there should still be some clearance at the top for at least one bath towel. Or try not to exceed filling your machine 3/4 full with dry clothes. I would also back off the spin speed. Your previous Kenmore may not have spun at 1,400 RPM, which is incredibly fast for such a large drum size. Try a medium or high spin speed instead. I spin towels and beddings on medium, regular laundry on high. I hardly ever use max spin.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 2:09PM
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We have owned a miele for 2 years now.
If I use max spin, synthetics look pretty wrinkled, so I drop the spin cycle down a notch and that helps.
Stiffness - I notice this with cheap towels but not with our good towels.
I just bought some Miele detergent but haven't tried it yet.
OK - I have some PA dutch in me and can't waste things so have to finish the old detergent first
I bought the detergent after having our DW serviced and the factory tech left some DW samples - and wow - so I am hoping for the same WM wow!
Good luck.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 8:09PM
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@shannonaz - I did not intend to come across as rude. My mistake, and please accept my apology.

That shirt has definitely got a wrinkle problem. Final spin speed might be part of the problem.... I'm still new to the FL world. I generally use Medium for most of my loads, including shirts like yours posted, and don't have the problem. I had read, somewhere, that the Max spin speed can contribute to wrinkling. I can't say if that's true, but it might be why I started using the Medium and High spins for my laundry.

Your water is quite hard and like others have said, perhaps more detergent is needed? I wonder if STPP might help?

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 8:47PM
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@a2gemini, I would agree about dropping the spin down. That t shirt looked quite thin too so it would definitely wrinkle easier.

I started using the Miele detergents several weeks ago and I'm just enamoured with them. I have struggled for years to find a detergent I was happy with. I've finally found it (oh please don't let Miele stop making it).

Which one(s) did you get? I had some free money to spend with Miele so I bought quite a few. My favorite is the Ultra Color powder. I do use the Color liquid too occasionally.

I just washed a load of microfiber cleaning cloths today (that I haven't washed in the Miele yet). I own tons so I save them up and do a dedicated wash. I used the Ultra Color powder and hot water. They were perfectly clean. Usually there are some marks still on them but not this time.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on them. Not too many users on this forum so it will be nice to get a new perspective.

I did spin them at max spin and they were wrinkled. I tossed in the dryer on 15 cold and hung to dry. Perfect.

I would say for many loads high spin is enough and sometimes medium would be wise. In the Wrinkle Free setting you cannot even select max spin (for obvious reasons).

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 9:41PM
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"Thanks to some info on this thread I have been drying clothes for 15+ minutes before line-drying"

Would you do me a favor? Try drying them using the 15 min cold cycle. I know it doesn't sound like it would help with wrinkles but it does. I'd be interested in your results doing that.

I've done it for awhile now and always end up with wrinkle free hung items. My cloths from today dried perfectly.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 10:53PM
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@Cavimum- Thank you :) I should be less sensitive when asking for help. I am immensely frustrated by this topic!

I am glad that those clothes looked wrinkly to everyone else. I did not consider myself overly fastidious about wrinkles!

The white Ts pictured where washed on wrinkle-free high spin. I am second guessing that now, though. It's possible I used custom and max spin...so I will purposely make the next load small and use medium speed. The load of whites was not overly full at all. I will take a picture of the next load in the drum before I wash it to verify that my idea of a small load is actually a small load!

I actually have a tub of STPP from years ago detergent experiments...would it really affect wrinkling? My clothes are coming out clean...my life is less conducive to laundry detergent experiments these days.

I washed that cashmere sweater on woolens and it appears to have come out fine. I need to wait until it is dry to make a final assessment.

I will see if I have a manual from my old machine to determine it's rpm...

@livebetter- I will try the cold dryer setting on a load soon. I want to try medium spin with a normal dryer setting first to isolate variables...

    Bookmark   February 5, 2012 at 11:30PM
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"I washed that cashmere sweater on woolens and it appears to have come out fine. I need to wait until it is dry to make a final assessment."

Please do, we're all a little bit OCD here when it comes to laundry and helping others. ;-) I can't wait to see if the Woolens cycle helped.

STPP won't affect the wrinkling, but it seems to have a water-softener effect. I only mentioned it because your water is fairly hard. Our water is 4 - 5 grains, moderately hard, but since I've been adding STPP I have less accidental detergent overdoses a/k/a SUDS in the final rinse (in our case), so something positive is happening since I started using it. My guess is that it's helping the detergent rinse out better. I add 1/3 to 1/4 STPP of whatever amount of detergent I'm using. There is a good FAQ page here somewhere, on this forum, about STPP.

15 minutes in the dryer might not be enough to get the wrinkles out. I've noticed in our T9082 dryer, that it takes at least five minutes for the laundry to warm up. That's a lot slower than my former 'conventional' dryer. I do a lot of line-drying with golf shirts, dressy tee shirts, slacks, etc., so now I have to wait longer for the initial wrinkles to fall out, before I pull them out of the dryer.

When my W4842 washer load is only a half full tub, giving the dryer load more air space to tumble, lately I've been letting some things go the whole cycle. There has been no shrinkage (because the heat is so low in this dryer) and less wrinkles, plus it seems the clothes are even softer.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 8:44AM
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For those having wrinkling issues with items coming out of their dryers, try the Normal dry setting and enable the Gentle option. This will slow down the rate at which the temperature ramps up and also extends the tumble time - both help to reduce wrinkles and keep your laundry softer.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 10:11AM
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I personally have more success using the 15 min cold dryer setting if I know I'm hanging things to dry. For me it releases wrinkles better than the heated setting. It fluffs things before I hang them and then they hang dry with no wrinkles.

I used to use the heated setting to do it but one day tried the cold setting and never looked back.

I hope someone else here will try that and tell me what their results are :) @Cavimum, you should try it if you're hanging golf shirst and such. I do it for my husband's dress shirts - they still need to be pressed but they are not very wrinkled when done this way.

I always use the Gentle setting - it's much kinder to your fabrics since it heats up more gradually (like @sshrivastava pointed out).

Most of my actual drying is done on Normal/Gentle or Delicate/Gentle. Occasionally I use Extra Dry/Gentle for loads I know don't dry thorough enough on Normal.

All my hang drying gets the 15 min cold dry and then hung.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 10:38AM
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@livebetter - I'll give the 15min cold setting a try.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2012 at 10:56AM
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I'm back with more results! Here is what I consider a 1/2 to 2/3 of a load and the results of that load on custom/verywarm/medium spin:

This shirt seems a little less wrinkly!

but this shirt is still really wrinkly :(

I put these in the dryer for 15 minutes "normal" and a lot of the wrinkling smoothed out. They will still need to be ironed...

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 9:45AM
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Here is my second experiment: This was a very small load (sorry, no photo) on wrinkle-free, medium spin.

So, definitely less wrinkly...I put these in the dryer on 15 minutes cold and they came out smoother, but they will still require ironing. They are still on the drying rack if a picture of that would be helpful :)

here is the cashmere sweater before washing on the woolens cycle:

and here it is after: it looks pretty good but at least the way it is spread out it does seem to have shrunk a bit...I could have taken better pics/measurements and it may just need to be ironed...

I have learned a lot and seen some improvements but I am still needing to iron most things that come out of this washwer/dryer...

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 9:52AM
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@ shannonaz

Okay, I'm a little confused. You are saying "I am still needing to iron most things that come out of this washwer/dryer", however you are not allowing the dryer to dry your clothes - you are only running it on 15 minute air dry. If you let the dryer actually dry your clothes, there will be no wrinkles. What you are seeing, and displaying in your photos, is absolutely normal for damp clothes that come out of the washer. Essentially you're complaining that the clothes are coming out wrinkled from the machine. Well, that's what happens in a front loader regardless of load size. Clothes will always be wrinkled when damp. However, those wrinkles disappear in the dryer.

If you are hanging your clothes to dry, then of course you will need to iron. I needed to clarify this as some of your comments might be misunderstood by those who are evaluating this machine for purchase. There is nothing wrong with how your washer/dryer are functioning - it's simply the fact that you are not using the dryer to dry your clothes that you feel your clothes are wrinkled.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 10:49AM
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@shannonaz - Very helpful pictures. Forgive me for sounding dense ... were those shirts photographed right out of the washer? Mine look like that before they go into the dryer, but if those came out of the dryer looking like that ~after~ 15 minutes, I tend to think something is wrong somewhere.

I iron our cotton golf shirts and my nice (dressy)tee shirts, but I did that with my old conventional water-hog TL Whirlpool washer, too. I don't see much difference in my ironing habits after getting the Miele.
Perhaps your previous FL used more water in the drum for washes and rinses? That is my best amateur guess. Your Kenmore FL must have been a rare gem. They do exist.

The size of your load in the drum is what I consider a scant half-load at the most, or smaller.Wouldn't it be nice if we had standardized illustrations for an objective description of half, 3/4 and full loads! Instead we're left to our own subjective interpretation. For a load like that, I use the Wrinkle-free cycle on Medium spin. That's my favorite 'go-to' cycle. The rinse uses more water, which 'cushions' the laundry.

Did you run the sweater on the Woolens cycle in the dryer? I do that with DH's wool sweaters before I lay them flat to dry.

* Question --- did your Kenmore FL have an internal water heater? Might be the clue to the sweater situation. It's possible that Cold on your Kenmore FL was tap-water cold. The Cold on the Miele is heated to 86F. Some cashmere can be washed safely on tap-cold but a Cold setting of 86F might be too much. No Heat on the Miele might be safer, as it gives tapwater-cold temp water. Just thinking out loud... That might be why the sweater seems to have shrunk. You can stretch it out a bit (called blocking) and that might help. My DH's sweaters were all purchased during trips in UK & Ireland. They all say to wash on Warm, which one would assume is European FL washer Warm (approx 100F). That would match my Miele's Warm setting, but I still chicken out and use Cold. They cost too much to risk shrinking.

About your silk camisoles - are you air/line drying them only? Mine get crunchy stiff if taken from washer to drying rack, too, unless I dry them completely in the Miele dryer on Delicate/Gentle setting. Then they're very soft. I have no idea why. A lot of our cotton knits have the same results --- stiff if taken out of dryer too soon to finish line drying, but waaaay soft when left in dryer for entire cycle.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 10:56AM
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I disagree that you have to totally dry clothes for them to come out wrinkle free.
I don't have a miele, but a bosch nexxt and I don't dry any of my clothes to the totally dry stage because of shrinkage.

I will dry them perhaps 5-10 minutes on low, the longer time for the heavier fabrics and then hang to finish drying and they are wrinkle free.

Yesterday I tried the 15 minutes on air for the first time for my jeans after washing in the jeans cycle and they required no ironing.
I'm pretty fussy and don't mind ironing and so if I'm not ironing that says they look as if they've been ironed. I am the type to iron things that other people might not.

I've been reading these threads on these Mieles and it sure seems to me that they have a greater learning curve than many of the other machines.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 11:26AM
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@sshrivastava- the laundry method I described is the one my mom has been using and I have been using the entire time I have been doing laundry. With my last FL, I washed clothes on the basic/normal cycle, pulled them out and threw them in the dryer for 7 minutes. They cam out wrinkle-free and dried on a rack. My mom does the same thing with her LG FL. She used the same system with a crappy TL. We hang-dry to keep clothes looking nicer, longer. Before this set, clothes that were hung to dry were much less wrinkly than clothes dried all the way in the dryer. Line-drying decreased the number of items we had to iron.

Since clothes weren't coming out warm/hot after 7 minutes on the Miele I increased the time to 10 minutes. You say: "if you are hanging your clothes to dry, of course you will need to iron them" why would I think that to be true? Something is DIFFERENT with the Miele and I am trying to determine what! I actually leave a lot of clothes in the dryer (pajamas, kids play-clothes, boxers) and they come out wrinkly also, I just don't care if my pajamas are wrinkly :)

@Cavimum- Those photos are after washing before drying!
I thought that was a tiny load, but I wanted to make sure that wrinkles aren't due to overloading.

I washed the sweater on woolens and lay flat to dry. I get what you are saying about cold/tap temp and there may be something to that. I am sure I occasionally washed cashmere in the summer and our tap is really really warm in the summer here...I will try drying my silk on gentle.

The one thing about line drying that is always true in my experience is clothes are stiffer when they are line-dried. Dryer-dried clothes are softer! I just didn't experience crunchy stiff silk and linen with my old machine.

I looked up my Kenmore manual: it did have an internal heater and the spin speeds were 1200 rpm. It was a Kenmore HE3t.

Do I need to increase the water level somehow? I will post pics of some of these shirts now that they are dry!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 11:33AM
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I always iron our knit shirts, whether machine dried for 10-15 min and then air-dried on a rack, or dried completely in the dryer, because I'm a little bit OCD about the ironing. I used to never iron knit shirts/tops, at all. Then one summer, a few years ago, my DH asked me to start ironing his golf shirts. They really did look nicer, so I started ironing my own knit shirts, too. All before our FL washer.

All my laundry looks like your photos, before I put them in the dryer. Don't know if that's any consolation .... ;o)

The worst wrinkling in our Miele were the few loads that filled the drum 3/4 to 4/5 full. Stuff came out clean, but even after the dryer cycle, everything was wrinkled horribly. In my opinion, items in the dryer need room to tumble around if the wrinkles are going to shake out.

I rarely fill the washer much higher than the top of that round dome-looking thing in the middle of the washer. Wrinkle-free is the most-used cycle because of the higher level of water in the rinses. And for some reason I cannot fathom, Extra White/HOT really gets things whiter than the other cycles on HOT, even when run for the same length of time. Must be the drum movement.

Since your Kenmore FL had an internal heater, I'm going to guess that maybe it put more water in the drum. People say it does not make a difference, but I am not convinced yet. The government is making sure less water is in the newer machines, according to what I read online (and if you can believe it... I don't know)

This Miele is my first FL and my only learning curve has been the detergent dosing. Now that I have all the detergent residue removed from our clothes & bedding (from the old conventional TL water hog washer), and have the detergent dosing firmly planted in my brain, I'm at the end of the infamous learning curve.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2012 at 1:30PM
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These are from the small second load done on wrinkle-free medium spin and dried for 15 minutes on cold. Overall a huge improvement but to my eye the shirts on the right still need some ironing. I think the shirts on the left can get away without it. The bottom left shirt is 50% polyester. The navy one is a more substantial cotton. The shirts on the right are really light or slub cotton.

    Bookmark   February 11, 2012 at 8:42PM
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shannonaz, a couple of suggestions. First of all, do iron your cashmere sweater after drying it flat. I do that with most of my wool and cashmere sweaters and they look sooooo much better when ironed.

As to your cotton t-shirts, try increasing your dryer time slightly. I think another 5-10 minutes in the dryer at a low temp before you hang your laundry may give you the results you are looking for.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 9:29AM
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@ shannonaz

For what you're trying to do - now I understand, sorry - I would suggest trying the Woolens cycle. Woolens will gently heat your laundry, but also keep enough moisture in the clothing to allow you to line dry. Because Woolens employs a little heat, it may be more successful in smoothing out the wrinkles than the 15 minute cold setting.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 11:45AM
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"Because Woolens employs a little heat, it may be more successful in smoothing out the wrinkles than the 15 minute cold setting."

That hasn't been my experience but I look forward to hearing what happens. I may try it too just to prove to myself.

I did my husband's dress shirts yesterday on wrinkle free and 15 min cold dryer then hung. Of course being dress shirts they still need to be pressed but they are not very wrinkled. (FYI - he presses his own shirts - I'm too OCD to press them - I can spend 1 hour trying to get one shirt perfect ... lol).

Obviously this has a lot to do with the various fabrics. I don't think I own anything as thin as those thinner shirts which seem to be causing you trouble.

I washed a sweater the other day on delicates and then 15 min cold tumble/hung to dry. Not a wrinkle in it - looks perfect.

This routine works so well for my hang to dry items.

I'm a bit pressing obsessed so I often will press some things just to have them look crisp but the job is much easier when you are not trying to remove deep wrinkles.

I'll try and take some photos but for the most part, my delicates that I hang dry come out lovely. Some items that are dry clean only I would not want to use any heat at all on which is how I discovered how well the 15 min cold works.

Maybe try doing two cycles of 15 min cold - perhaps those thinner pieces need a little extra fluffing.

Just as an extra thought, I never use medium spin. I almost always use whatever the default spin speed is and do the cold tumble and no issues.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 12:12PM
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@'stava - you're talking about the Woolens cycle on the dryer? I use it for DH's wool and my cashmere sweaters and I've never felt the need to iron them. One dryer cycle on Woolens, take them out as soon as it finishes, and they are laid flat on microfiber/wicking towels to complete the drying.

@livebetter - OT --- do you use spray starch or spray sizing when you iron? If so, there's a wonderful product called Mary Ellen's Best Press with which you might like to experiment. Scent-sensitive as I am, the lavender doesn't bother me at all. Very nice stuff, too, although pricey.

Here is a link that might be useful: Mary Ellen's Best Press

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 1:57PM
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Hi Shannonaz,

I looked at the manual and it states that you can use the 'turbo' option for warm air. As you mentioned in an earlier post that your old dryer dried hotter than the Miele and got the wrinkles out better, this could be another option to try next time to smooth the wrinkles out.

    Bookmark   February 12, 2012 at 5:21PM
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My clothes come out of the Bravos the same way, so many wrinkles and the small tight ones like you display. I dry my clothes completely dry and even in the steam dryer it still does not eliminate the need to iron EVERYTHING. I completely sympathize with your plight.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 8:49AM
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@ gr8day

I'm sorry to hear you are having problems. You dry your clothes in the dryer as do I. In my case, the clothes come out wrinkle-free every time. However, you need to make sure you haven't over filled the washer to keep wrinkling and twisting to a minimum. If you do wash a "packed" load, try drying only half of it in the dryer at one time. On regular size loads, try spinning at a slower speed.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 1:53PM
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Following up to @shannonaz's OP, this past week I actually paid attention to the knit shirts as they came out of our washer and before the went into the dryer. They looked just as wrinkled as the ones in the photos @shannonaz posted above. I never paid attention before, because they always get tossed from washer to dryer.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 6:58PM
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thanks sshrivastava I will try that.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 7:53PM
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