XR15 or 13 quotes

david_caryMay 24, 2011

New construction, oceanfront, NC. 2100 sq ft. Ducts in envelope with conventional/code insulation with better air sealing than usual.

First Floor:

ï· 4TWR5030A1000A - 2.5-ton XR15 Trane 15 seer heat pump condensing unit.

ï· GAM5A0B30M21S - 2.5 -ton High Eff. Motor Air Handler

ï· BAYEAAC08LG1AA - 8 kw supplementary heater

ï· TCONT401 - 2H/1C- Digital Non Programmable Thermostat

Second Floor:

ï· 4TWR5024A1000A - 2 -ton XR15 Trane 15 seer heat pump condensing unit.

ï· GAM5A0A18M11S - 2 -ton High Eff. Motor Air Handler

ï· BAYEAAC05LG1AA - 5 kw supplementary heater

ï· TCONT401 - 2H/1C- Digital Non Programmable Thermostat

or

Ground /First Floor:

ï· 4TWR3030A1000A - 2.5-ton XR13 Trane 13 seer heat pump condensing unit.

ï· GAM5AOB30M31SA - 2.5-ton Standard Air Handler

ï· BAYEAAC08LGAA - 8 kw supplementary heater

ï· TCONT401 - 2H/1C- Digital Non Programmable Thermostat

Upstairs:

ï· 4TWR3024A1000A - 2-ton XR13 Trane 13 seer heat pump condensing unit.

ï· GAM5AOA18M11SA - 2-ton Standard Air Handler

ï· BAYEAAC05LG1AA - 5 kw supplementary heater

ï· TCONT401 - 2H/1C- Digital Non Programmable Thermostat

Probably will be occupied 60% of the time. Completely occupied in the summer (mostly renters). Probably only 10% of the time in the winter. Fall and spring - probably 40% of the time.

The quote was $10,800 for XR15 and $9600 for XR13. Man J to be done on contract signing.

My expectation is that the outside unit will last 5 years and presumably the warranty will not cover it. Because of that, I always expected to do Seer 13 units. These prices aren't bad but I'm not sure there is a reasonable payback. Electricity is $.10 and I expect about $500 a year in a/c costs with seer 13 but I could be off by a few hundred. I expect the heat to be $100 a year given the minimal usage.

Thoughts? Warranty coverage for salt corrosion? Why not the XB13? And lastly why does a XR13 have a seer rating of 14.5 on the Trane site but this quote is for 13?

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ryanhughes

Does the price include ductwork installation? Seems cheap for two units, new construction with ductwork. However, you've been around here for a while helping others out and educating yourself, so I'm sure you've done your research on the right companies.

For the scenario you've described, I think the equipment levels you're looking at are very appropriate.

Trane has a Seacoast Kit, BAYSEAC001, that can be installed with the unit. Here is what Trane says about it: "If your Trane Outdoor Unit is installed within one mile of salt water, including but not limited to seacoasts and inland waterways, models without factory supplied Seacoast Salt Shields require the addition of BAYSEAC001 (Seacoast Kit) at the Sam time of installation. Failure to install the
BAYSEAC001 at the time of installation reduces the limited warranty to 5 years only."

So it seems the warranty would apply and be for 10 years provided this kit is installed. Best to check with your dealer. The XB warranty for parts is 5 years period, so the XR to me is worth it for the extended warranty (when registered).

The XR13 is capable of 14.5 SEER in some matchups. It is actually 14.25 in the 2 ton match-up and 14.5 in the 2.5-ton match-up (AHRI), bringing it close to the performance of the XR15 in terms of SEER.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2011 at 9:46PM
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baldloonie

How did they decide size? 4.5 tons for 2100 sq ft better built than average seems a lot. You could end up with humidity issues, mold, etc.

The dealer probably din't bother to look up what the XR13 can do with a ECM inside.

    Bookmark   May 24, 2011 at 11:00PM
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david_cary

I agree on the tonnage but there are lots of windows and 10 foot ceilings. Like a wall of 8 foot tall and 14 ft wide picture windows completely uncovered and facing SE. My personal seat of the pants man J says 2 down, 1.5 up. Upstairs is 8 ft ceilings and total SE window of 108 sqft (vs 188 sqft down although some of that is covered). This is a beach contractor and I bet even with a man J, they assume greater air leakage.

I may take the tonnage down after seeing the man J but at this point, I am just trying to learn the Trane equipment and get some pricing.

The quote does include ductwork - rigid with flex run-outs. R-8 despite being in conditioned space (with doesn't require r-8 by code here).

    Bookmark   May 25, 2011 at 4:31AM
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neohioheatpump

xr15 for sure. Its not too expensive. Definitely worth it over xr13 in my opinion. Good choice going with heatpump in your location.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2011 at 7:41AM
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tigerdunes

david

I will assume you are sized correctly. I encourage you to ask dealer to perform a written manual j to verify correct sizing.

I was unaware about the lack of Seacoast shield cutting the warranty in half. You definitely want this to extend the life of the system as well as qualifying for full warranty.

I am going to take a contrary view of the HP condenser selection. These new Hyperion air handlers while not var speed are high efficient. I checked the AHRI numbers on both options. You lose about a point on EER and SEER, and about a half point on HSPF. BTUs on cooling and heating are about the same whether XR15 or XR13. I see nothing wrong with the XR13 and the upfront savings that you would enjoy. It seems that's a reasonable choice especially taking into consideration expected occupancy whether renters or yourself.

I encourage you to ask dealer to perform a written manual j to verify correct sizing.

Insulation is relatively cheap. I would go with R-8 on ductwork.

IMO

    Bookmark   May 25, 2011 at 2:41PM
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david_cary

They state that a man J has already been done. They use
something other than the seacoast attachment that is apparently better and is Trane approved.

The included quote doesn't include the Hyperion air handlers but they are only $450 (I believe for both). Hard to tell if that is worth it - since one will be right next to a bedroom, it would be worth it if they were significantly quieter.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2011 at 7:34PM
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tigerdunes

david

you have been quoted the Hyperion mdl air handlers-the 5 series. see link.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Trane Hyperion Air Handlers

    Bookmark   May 26, 2011 at 7:03AM
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david_cary

You are right - of course. The $450 was for variable speed Hyperion - the quote has the fixed speed Hyperion included.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2011 at 12:15PM
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