Not-nearly-done-kitchen PART 2 from Breezy

breezygirlJanuary 28, 2013

The thread I posted about a year ago on my unfinished kitchen just reached its 150 post maximum as Huango asked a question. Since I can't answer you there, Amanda, I'll post this thread as part 2 and answer here.

posted by Huango on Sun, Jan 27, 13 at 10:50

I really LOVE your kitchen.
I really like your handles placed horizontally.
Sorry I didn't read through, but did you get any pushback when you said to install the handle os the doors (not drawers) horizontally?

My DH and guy friends think I'm nuts and SO WRONG to do it like that. They said that people will break the handle and/or door since the user will pull out the door instead of swinging it open.
Yes, I showed them your beautiful kitchen and they still don't get it.

Of all my cabinets, only 5 of them are doors; rest are drawers. So I think the door handles should be place horizontally just like my drawers.

How did you handle any pushbacks?
What besides "It-is-my-kitchen-and-I-will-put-the-handles-however-I-want" can I use to gain DH and friends' understanding?

Thank you very much,

p.s. Thank you very much for your supportive posts on my threads. It has been a very long road and it is incredibly helpful to read such wonderful thoughts.

First, you're welcome, Amanda, and thanks for the compliments. I received so much help to even remember from all the kind folks here when I was actively reno'ing. I'm happy to pay it forward. I hope your DH is doing better. I have you, him, and your family in my thoughts and prayers.

To answer your question, I don't think I asked anybody's permission about my pull placement. DH has some input on the pulls, as in he didn't like them at first, but I eventually ordered what I wanted. I learned at the beginning of this reno not to ask his opinion on certain aesthetic questions unless I knew he had a strong preference or if I couldn't decide myself. We have an almost 20 year history of being unable to come to mutual agreement about many aesthetic items in our home so we compromise with something completely boring that neither one of us really likes. I saw this whole house reno as a chance to find my style. I don't mean this all to sound cold. For the most part I did what I wanted. Besides, DH is too busy working and traveling for work to care much about anything besides spending his small amount of free time with his family. :)

My cab maker, bless his patient heart, had never seen anyone with so few uppers, so many drawers, pulls of different sizes, and pulls on all cabs and drawers that when we got to pull placement, he simply did what I asked. He did triple and quadruple check to make sure that he understood what I wanted though. In the end, he said he liked the pulls and the placement and would offer it as an option to future customers if they were unsure of their hardware placement.

I'm not sure what advice I can give you, really, other than to say its MY kitchen and I'll do as I please! I think we've established in another thread that I'm a b*t$h mom, and that must rub off in other areas of my life. I didn't ask permission about where to place my pulls. I'm the one that uses the kitchen hours and hours a day and does 98.5467% of the work in there anyway. Really, it's no one's business but yours, and maybe your DH's. Certainly not your friends. I guess I would say to be strong and stand up for yourself. I don't mean for that to sound condescending!

A far as function goes, I have had zero issues with the horizontal placement nor has anyone else who has worked in my kitchen. In fact, not one person has even mentioned the unusal placement, not even my SIL who installed hers in the same manner. I think that says something that no one even notices!

No one has tried to pull out a door. Unless you've never functioned in a house before, I think a person's subconscious is smart enough to see a door and realize a door swings open. And I find the ergonomics to be better this way anyway. With uppers, I don't have to reach as far up to open a door as I would if the pulls were in a more traditonal vertical placement up farther on the stiles. With the lowers, I don't have to reach as far down to open the doors as I would if the pulls were in a more traditional vertical placement down lower on the stiles. Try that argument on the boys.

Plus, the garbage pullout would drive me completely and utterly nutso if the pull was down lower vertically. Bonkers!

I also like the visual simplicity of the pulls all running in one direction. Some kitchens look busy to me with so many horizontal and vertical lines running everywhere. There are others who have done this, also. Have you seen other kitchens like this?

I hope I helped some! I'm looking forward to seeing your finished kitchen!

Here's my current kitchen frustration.

Here is a link that might be useful: Part 1

This post was edited by breezygirl on Mon, Jan 28, 13 at 5:38

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Huhngo- I can tell you that we bought a home with cabinet pulls installed horizontally and I never even noticed it was slightly different until we'd lived here three years. It has never bothered me once and no one has ever commented on it. As much as I'd like to start demolition of this old kitchen, I haven't pulled a door off its hinge yet and I agree that keeping them all horizontal is easier on the eye.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 7:33AM
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My upper cabinet handles are also installed horizontally. My largest upper is still quite marrow, and the pulls cover most of the lower rail on the majority of the doors.


    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 7:39AM
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I only have a few uppers and a couple of doors but the handles are all horizontal as well. There have been no issues - as Breezy said it is a non issue and no one has ever commented on them.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 9:50AM
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>> DH and his friendsHUH?
Are they standing around in the middle of the kitchen, beers in hand, gossiping away about that "crazy woman who don't know nuttin' about no handles and how things gotta be?" Vigorously nodding thick skulls in agreement?

It reminds me of kids who say, "All the kids are doing it; those parents think it's OK.."

Sorry. Just the pictures running through my head.
I'm going to throw this into the mix. I got a wild hair years ago in my condominium to put my upper handles on at a 45degree slant. The way I grabbed a handle wasn't straight up and down, nor side to side. They made a triangle at each other. Oh, the horror of it all, the shudders, the quick glances at the sky looking for lightening bolts. The fear.

I also don't have two cabinets together open in the middle like normal. With doors swinging out from each other.

If I'm standing at my sink/peninsula, with my cabinets up above and to the left say, with a double cabinet there. The 1st cabinet (or right door) next to me wouldn't open you with the door handle in the middle of the cabinets. I treated it as a single cabinet so it opened to me. It's partner door the same way. So I didn't have to step back and work around doors in my workspace.

I've continued these earth-shattering oddities in my new kitchen. Despite frowns, gutteral, "Huh?"s, head shaking, "It won't work"s, "are you sure?"s, ideas that I should have to sign a disclaimer (I made these MYSELF!!! To whom am I disclaiming!?) and the fact that the world didn't stop nor did my cabinets fall off the wall.

The very few workmen I've been able to have in have actually told me they've taken some of my ideas about lighting placement, cabinet function, built in ideas and other things to do at home. They're man enough to admit it.

Just let him know you'd like to give it a try on (the cabinets you want them horizontally, anyway) and if these beer-drinking neanderthals manage to pull a cabinet door off by handle misuse, you'll have to replace it anyway so you'll put the new handle on vertically.

Or just do it yourself and let them live with it. (Them?) They're not going to take them off and dare to put new holes in the doors.

Some people just have no vision for even the simplest of diviations from the norm. Should be entertaining to watch the disconcerted behavior. They'll mill about like sheep.. with beer.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 10:25AM
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Breezy-she has the look of "excuse me, why are you taking a picture of MY countertop"? She must love the feel of the runnels as much as you do - can you blame her, lol?!

Back to topic - I love all of the variations of things here on GW, really gives you great visual and practical experience to base your choices off of. There is so much to look at in a kitchen that I'm not sure I would have immediately noticed that the pulls were horizontal vs. vertical (dh says I'm not that observant but he is a policeman so I think his perception is skewed but maybe not!). Do what you love and feels right for your space!

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 10:44AM
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It just goes to show you that it all blends together into "kitchen" eventually. I have an off-center cabinet over my range. I did not notice it until someone working on my kitchen remodel pointed it out to me. We fudged the new doors a bit, so it's less noticeable, but I still don't care. My sink is not centered under the window (to do so would mean more space loss than aesthetic gain). All the single items become part of the whole.

I actually prefer vertical pulls. Yet, Breezy's kitchen is one of my favorites and I've never even noticed she has horizontal pulls. It ain't a big deal.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 11:12AM
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As soon as they try to open a door, the hinges will be 'the path of least resistance' and the door will open properly. It might feel awkward to someone expecting a drawer, but shouldn't damage the door at all. Unless these guys have some kind of super human strength... ;-) Most cabinet doors don't look like drawers anyway, so the handle shouldn't 'fool' them, I wouldn't think. But maybe.

Breezy, that kitty has gotten GIANT!

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 11:35AM
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Breezy - I do think that picture is quite possibly my very favorite from this whole forum, in a very tight field. :)

I just love that look of outrage cats can get. I think it's just that 80% of the time they're hallucinating about something or other and you've startled them... ;)

At least you have nice proof of your largess in building that cat such a beautiful and comfortable perch. Well done. ;)

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 11:40AM
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Actually - I think she is daring you to ask her to move....that is a hilarious totally cat attitude expression. She looks like she might even swat at you should you dare ask her to leave.

    Bookmark   January 28, 2013 at 2:34PM
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Oh my goodness, I just found this thread.

breezy: Thank you so very much for your feedback.
Yes, it IS my kitchen. I put in a TON of time, energy, and work to get it the way it is turning out and dang it, I want the cabinet door handles placed horizontally AND I will get what I want!!!

Also, thank you for your well wishes.
DH is recovering very well.
We had our 1st outing yesterday - to BJ's wholesale: so very exciting.
And today, another outing: we went out for breakfast for our 10year wedding anniversary. OOOOOOh, so wild :)

Before learning about his cancer, I had planned a trip to a Long Island vineyard and a B&B in Montauk (while kids are at SisterInLaw). But maybe it's fate so that we can now go when it's nicer/warmer weather later this year.

That face (on your cat) is priceless: just daring you to try to shoo him off the runnels.
(You would think that the runnels are not very comfortable under one's belly).

CEFreeman: hahhaha
love the funny image of the guys "nodding thick skulls in agreement" (while holding their beers).
Hey, thinking out of the box = GREAT!

I really appreciate everyone's posts re-affirming that I am not nuts to want horizontal handles.


    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 9:32PM
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Enough with the chit-chat! This is the 'Not-nearly-done-kitchen PART 2 from Breezy'. Time to start exploring backsplash options. (I said exploring. Breezy may not be ready, but we can present her with some options).

Breezy! Thoughts, preferences so far? Please post a couple of pictures taken head on - position the countertop and cabinets to align with the vertical grid finder lines on your camera. Then, step aside:)

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 9:48PM
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Not nuts, I like em a lot ... wish I'd thought of it!

Christine, you should start a new thread; "crazy things Christine's done that you gotta copy...". It would be very long!

    Bookmark   February 1, 2013 at 10:18PM
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Breezy - thanks for the link to your earlier thread, I copied pictures of your 2" splash from another threads ... but now loved seeing your full kitchen. Those cabinets and countertops are exquisite - both your kitchen and mpagamom's increase the desire for white cabinets (however, ours will be dark). And the pulls! Yes!

Simply beautiful. I'm looking forward to the GW suggestions for your backsplash ... not doubt it will be fabulous.

We are considering a fireplace with built-in shelves like yours - are there special considerations for this? How deep is that wall to accomodate the fireplace and built in shelves?

Merci for sharing and continuing the thread on your kitchen.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2013 at 6:48PM
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Breezy - thanks for the link to your earlier thread, I copied pictures of your 2" splash from another threads ... but now loved seeing your full kitchen. Those cabinets and countertops are exquisite - both your kitchen and mpagamom's increase the desire for white cabinets (however, ours will be dark). And the pulls! Yes!

Simply beautiful. I'm looking forward to the GW suggestions for your backsplash ... not doubt it will be fabulous.

We are considering a fireplace with built-in shelves like yours - are there special considerations for this? How deep is that wall to accomodate the fireplace and built in shelves?

Merci for sharing and continuing the thread on your kitchen.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2013 at 6:52PM
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Love your Kitchen !
love the wood counter top.... even more with the cat on it. He's delightful naughty kitty that he is.
I like that you have some shelving for books in the kitchen too.

Your horizontal pulls look totally normal to me.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2013 at 7:42PM
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Autumn--actually my giant Coconut kitten is very shy and skittery. Her look is nervous, more like "ruh roh....she caught me. If she takes even one tiny move towards me, I'll run off in a flash because I KNOW I'm not supposed to be on these counters."

Rhome--Yes, she's huge! Much bigger than her sister and momma. Remember how tiny she was? Momma Sophie wasn't even fully grown herself here.

Now they barely fit together on that chair.

She's starting to become a late night lap cat, which I love! DH still makes her quite nervous though.

Aliris--LOL! She hasn't jumped up there in front of me since then.

Amanda--we "spoke" on another thread about your pull install so I know your current predicament. :)

Miruca--the only special consideration I can think of is to be careful of the flue positioning when you pick an insert. A couple I looked at required it to go out the side, which wouldn't work with the freestanding, middle-of-the-room look I was trying to achieve. The day I was planning to order my insert, I looked at the specs one last time in the showroom only to discover that the unit was too shallow front to back! I wouldn't have gotten very wide shelves on the ends by the time I accounted for framing so I shopped some other showrooms and found this deeper one. The wall and fireplace is 21.75" deep with the interior useable shelf space measuring 15.75" wide. I hope that answered your questions. Let me know if you need more info.

Oldbat--((sheepishly)) I think you're right about it being time to start exploring. I hated to start a bs thread without having some tile samples in consideration, but I really don't have a clue at this point. I know I don't want white subs and am up for something elegant, sophisticated or creative. I do not want to go crazy, but I do not want something that is commonly seen. (I love your tiles so much!) Does that make sense? I did finally finish with some long-term cooking projects like bread crumbs, meyer lemon and other flavored vodka, vanilla extract, canning jar organization, and some flavored triple secs that were taking up space on my counters so I could get some pics with the ipad and grid lines. You hit the nail on the head when you said that I'm not ready to run out and buy tile tomorrow, but if you're willing to take me on as a photoshop project I'm ready to start the process. :)

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 3:26AM
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Yes, that makes perfect sense to me. You want a tile which adds another layer of interest to your kitchen, like lighting, and is distinctively yours. Start posting and I'm sure you'll get tons of great ideas and sources. I'm looking forward to it!

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 6:22AM
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Yes, lets go!

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 11:47AM
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Curses Breezy!

I take one peek at GW during lunch and there's your awesome walnut island!

So much for getting the boss his reports on time.... ;)


    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 12:49PM
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Amanda-argh - yes I can hear it now. I hear all the time everyone is doing it like this that is all you see in parade homes and on which I wonder who all this everyone is and I don't live in 'everyones' house. Likewise when I suggest something I get "What?, Did you read that on the internet forum?". LOL - maybe and maybe not - I'm not telling where I found it but specific someones is way better than a blanket 'everyone' in my book! I hope you post pics of the finished product!

Breezy-wow - look how much they have grown! My sister's cat was the cuddler when we were growing up. We'd spread out books to do homework (okay I would spread out the books she was much more laid back and last minute to do something like that) and he would plop himself down right in the middle of the book! And he was no tiny kitty either! Fun memory. :)

I can't wait to see another layer to your fab kitchen. Let the fun begin!

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 12:57PM
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Breezygirl, I stumbled upon your kitchen while looking for examples of cabinets with Aubrey pulls, and WOW. Congrats on a stunning result! You must be enjoying it. I am really excited about your walnut top and the low maintenance Osmo finish you described.

For the Aubrey pulls, would you mind sharing how you decided when to use 4", 6" or 8" pulls for a given cabinets? Did you use any specific width thresholds to decide?


    Bookmark   January 6, 2015 at 5:37PM
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Sigh, I was all excited there, looking for an update on the (ahem) backsplash. (Sniffle).

    Bookmark   January 6, 2015 at 9:05PM
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Backsplash? Is it still on the drawing board Breezy?

    Bookmark   January 7, 2015 at 5:27AM
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How did I miss these posts this week?! I'm not getting notifications.

Thedinos--somewhere in the first post (linked way above in the opening post at the very end under the kitty pic) I detailed which pull size on which cab. I'll see if I can paste it in here later. I based my choices around the Golden Mean, or Rule of Thirds, which would dictate that the pull size is roughly 1/3 the size of the drawer.

Thanks for the compliments! I AM enjoying it. As much as I love the beauty of it, the functionality of my kitchen still blows me away 3 years later. I routinely thank GW silently for all the layout help as I prepare a meal. Oh, and for the AMAZING silgranit sinks! And...and...and. :)

OB2B! How are you? Love your new built-ins! I'm still living with some Pratt and Larson tiles propped against the wall. The grayish green is definitely the right direction, but I'm just not sure that this particular tile is THE one. Because the hand glazed color can vary so much from lot to lot, I'm afraid of getting a run thats too dark or mottled. I need to go back to my old tile thread to look at other tiles in this same color range and order some samples. Or maybe I'll just start a new thread. :)

Enduring! Another GW friend! I do still plan a bs. (Looking embarrassed thats I've lived with drywall for 3 years.) I've made progress on other parts of the house lately. The mudroom-let shelves were installed along with my master closet cabs. My live edge walnut mantles were hung last month on the see-thru fireplace against newly painted dark charcoal walls. My DR is now all fixtured-up with a new chandy and sconces. Our kitchen banquette is drawn up and waiting a final quote, although DH and I are arguing the back cushion fabric. Hope you're doing well!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2015 at 2:16AM
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Breezygirl - thank you! I don't know how I missed that the first time, but now I found it and it makes perfect sense. I just ordered my Aubrey pulls yesterday and applied a similar rule. (Plus I ordered a lot of extras).

After perseverating over two dozen different pulls, your beautiful kitchen helped me finally make a decision. Yay!

    Bookmark   January 8, 2015 at 12:32PM
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PS, Here is breezy's rule:

30" wide stacks and wider have 8" pulls
18-24" stacks have 6" pulls
17" drawers have 4" pulls

Cabs (very few)
all pulls are horizontal on cabs
11" doors have 4" pulls
15" doors have 6" pulls
glass cabs will have some sort of knob when I get around to looking ;)

    Bookmark   January 8, 2015 at 12:36PM
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Breezy, your house sounds fun! Happy you are able to do your projects and are making progress. Would love to see images. If you post on the Deco or other forums let me know on this post. I would love to take a peak.

    Bookmark   January 8, 2015 at 10:38PM
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Hi Breezy! I've been wondering about your new mudroom shelves turned out. Master closet cabinets? Hadn't heard about those. Would love to see pictures of both:)

Yes - that was me in the picture on A2's thread! I didn't want to bump the thread to say so, though :)

    Bookmark   January 9, 2015 at 8:26PM
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