Quotes for Carrier Infinity & Trane XL15i - advice please

whk006May 9, 2012

Here are the two quotes I am considering.

Would appreciate any feedback.

Our current systems are original from 1998 and both are low on refrigerant. When working, A/C and heat were adequate.

Issues include: Master bedroom is cold in the winter (thermostat is located there); two of the three remaining bedrooms are fine in winter/summer, the third is hot in the summer (west facing) and cold in the winter (at the end of the supply duct I think).

Proposal #1 adds a return in the MBR (no mention of a return in the basement), #2 adds a return in the basement (and did not recommend a return in the MBR).

We have three kids and keep all their bedroom doors completely closed from 7pm to 7am while they are sleeping. We close our MBR double doors from 11pm to 6am (upstairs has a single 20 x 20 return in the upstairs hallway).

Location: Northern Virginia (suburb of Washington DC)

House: 2 story Colonial w/finished basement built in 1998; Main Level=1850 sqft, Upper Level = 1200 sq ft, Basement

= 1250 sq ft (4300 sq ft total)

***Current Equipment:

Zone 1 (Main Level + Basement)

Located in basement

Bryant Gas Furnace (66,000 BTUH INPUT) 80% AFUE

383KAV036070

Bryant A/C

561CJX036-D (Compressor)

CK5AXA036000AAAA (Bryant Coil)

Zone 2 (Upper Level)

Located in attic

Bryant Gas Furnace (46,000 BTUH INPUT) 80% AFUE

376KCAV024050

Bryant A/C

561CJO018-C (Compressor)

TBD (Coil)

***Company #1 (Carrier Dealer) - $15.8K

10 year labor/parts/compressor

Lifetime heat exchanger

2 year service agreement on zones 1/2

New pads & fused disconnects

Zone 1 (Main Level + Basement)

Carrier Infinity (2 stage, Variable Speed, 66,000 BTU Input)

58CVA070-1-12

Carrier Infinity (3 ton, 17 SEER, 2 stage scroll)

24ANB736A003

CNPVP36

SYSTXCCCUID Infinity Control T-stat

Flush existing lineset

EZ trap

Zone 2 (Upper Level)

Carrier Infinity (2 stage, Variable Speed, 66,000 BTU Input)

58CVA070-1-12

Carrier Infinity (2 ton, 17 SEER, 2 stage scroll)

24ANB724A003

CNPHP24

SYSTXCCCUID Infinity Control T-stat

Flush existing lineset

New pan w/safety switch

EZ trap

Check all spider duct connections in attic

Additional filter grill return in master bedroom

***Company #2 (Trane Dealer) - $14.8K

2 year labor

10 year parts

12 year compressor

Heat exchanger warranty not stated

Option for $167/zone/yr service agreement

Zone 1 (Main Level + Basement)

Trane XV80 (2 stage, Variable Speed, BTU Input not given)

PN not given ("Furnish and install a new AHRI Matched comfort system")

Trane XL15i (3 ton, SEER not given, single stage)

PN not given

Coil PN not given

Trane XL600 series T-stat

External Filter Rack

Flush existing lineset (R-11 CALGON flush)

EZ trap

Composite equipment pad

Fused weather proof disconnect

Additional return in basement

Zone 2 (Upper Level)

Trane XV80 (2 stage, Variable Speed, BTU Input not given)

PN not given ("Furnish and install a new AHRI Matched comfort system")

Trane XL15i (2 ton, SEER not given, single stage)

PN not given

Coil PN not given

Trane XL600 series T-stat

External Filter Rack

Flush existing lineset (R-11 CALGON flush)

EZ trap

Ceiling Saver Kit

Composite equipment pad

Fused weather proof disconnect

OPTIONS

$250 - Media Filter for basement system (MERV 10) 5 year parts 1 year labor warranty

$475 - Heathly Climate HCWP3 Whole House Power Humidifier 5 year parts 1 year labor warranty

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mike_home

Do the Carrier quotes include the rebate? They should total $2200. Is it too difficult to replace the linesets? Does the Carrier quote include the 10 year labor warranty from Carrier? Was a load calculation done by either contractor? What media filter is being proposed for the Carrier quote?

The Carrier equipment is very nice. If you have humid summers you will enjoy the 2-stage AC. The only suggestion I have is to consider upgrading the basement furnace to a 95%+ efficiency unit.

I am not the Trane expert, but I think it is also good equipment. The AC are single stage which if sized properly should also give good humidity control.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2012 at 8:12PM
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whk006

Both quotes are have rebates included ($2200 for Carrier).

No load calc for either quote but a third vendor sort of did a calc (measured all rooms and windows, ran some numbers on the spot) and recommended a 2 ton A/C in the attic and 2.5 ton A/C in the basement (vs 2 and 3 tons for the above quotes) for the same Carrier equipment.

Not sure if the 10 year labor warranty is from Carrier direct or the installer.

Lineset for the basement would require tearing up some of the finished space in the basement. Not sure how the lineset is routed from outside to the attic.

Not sure if anything but a 1" filter is proposed for the Carrier quote.

Going to a 95% furnace will require running add'l PVC piping to the outside, correct?

    Bookmark   May 9, 2012 at 11:16PM
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mike_home

High efficiency furnaces need to be vented through PVC piping to an exterior wall. This adds more labor and material costs. A 95%+ efficiency furnace may also qualify for a local utility rebate. This is worth investigating.

Ask the Carrier contractor about a 4 inch filter. I recommend getting it if it can fit and the cost is reasonable.

If the contractor is a Carrier Factory Authorized dealer, then it is probably a Carrier labor warranty.

    Bookmark   May 10, 2012 at 8:31AM
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whk006

Ok - here's a quote for YORK equipment...

Any comments on York Affinity vs Carrier Infinity vs Trane?

York and Trane proposals are 80KBTUh/60KBTUh (main/attic). Carrier is 66KBTUh for both systems. Any thoughts?

***Company #3 (York Dealer) - $13.9K (rebates included)

2 year labor
10 year parts
Lifetime compressor
Heat exchanger warranty not stated

New pads

Zone 1 (Main Level + Basement)
York Affinity (modulating, 80% AFUE, 80,000 BTUh Input)
YPLC080A12MP12

York Affinity (3 ton, 15.75 SEER, single stage)
CZF036
FC43B
York Communicating touch screen programmable T-stat
Flush existing lineset
Additional filter grill return in basement
YM10PAC1625 media air cleaner

Zone 2 (Upper Level)
York Affinity (modulating, 80% AFUE, 60,000 BTUh Input)
YPLC060A12MP12

York Affinity (2 ton, 16.5 SEER, single stage)
CZF024
MC37A
York Communicating touch screen programmable T-stat
Flush existing lineset
Additional filter grill return in master bedroom

Option to go to CZH036/CZH024 (2 stage 17.75/16.75 SEER) for add'l $200 each ($14.3K instead of $13.9K)

    Bookmark   May 11, 2012 at 10:13PM
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patrickjd9

One would assume heating load would be higher in main level plus basement than on the upper level. Unless much of the upper level is over an unheated garage, it seems odd that a company would propose identically sized furnaces for both.

It sounds correct that all companies have proposed a larger upstairs air conditioner than you have now.

Of course, without a load calculation, I am speculating. FWIW, I am sitting right now in a house cooled by a 24 year old Carrier compressor. Matching furnace was replaced in 2006, with new coil. Maybe you're giving up on your systems too soon?

    Bookmark   May 27, 2012 at 1:25PM
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