baby surprise jacket

patnjOctober 1, 2008

Good morning I am usually just a lurker here and I am hoping some one can help. I don't really knit but I have recently seen a post for the Baby surprise jacket in crochet, but it assumes you have the knit pattern already. Does anyone have the Baby Surprise Jacket knit pattern to share?

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donna_loomis

Send me an email.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 9:02AM
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patnj

thank you Donna, you have mail

    Bookmark   October 1, 2008 at 12:49PM
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cosmic_karma

You are asking a fellow crafter to break the law if they photocopy the pattern. The Baby Surprise Jacket is a copyright patttern and is available for sale.

    Bookmark   October 5, 2008 at 12:31PM
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pinkcarnation

Actually, as I understand it, it is NOT unlawful to photocopy and share a pattern! Yes, the creators would like you to believe that, but it is not the case. Check out the link below:

Here is a link that might be useful: Tabberone's Trademark Page

    Bookmark   October 13, 2008 at 1:06PM
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patnj

pinkcarnations, thank you for that link. I have always wondered about that. I have been made to feel that I was breaking the law simply by making a working copy so I could mark it up and not ruin the original. I don't profess to understand the copy right law but it did seem that once I purchased something as long as I did not try to claim it as my own work that I was not stealing from the designer or publisher. I guess like many things it is how it is interperted.

    Bookmark   October 13, 2008 at 2:24PM
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cosmic_karma

Nice try - why don't you contact Elizabeth Zimmerman's daughter and see what her attorney has to say?

    Bookmark   October 14, 2008 at 1:36PM
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Maggie4

NIce try - to you too Cosmic, but....the law reads: you can not copy and Sell as well as distribute this as your idea for a profit. I don't think anyone is selling this pattern for their own profit.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2008 at 2:30PM
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Dash2

I've knit the baby surprise. I'd be interested to know where to get instructions for doing it in crochet. I find, lately, that crochet is easier on my hands.

As for the copyright police; if sharing patterns is against the law, then every library across america will have to be shut down. It's a simple matter to get Zimmerman books at a library and make a copy of any pattern in them.

As long as the copy is for personal use and is not posted anywhere or held up to be original to someone else, it is not against the law.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2008 at 11:51PM
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donna_loomis

If you already have a copy of the knit pattern, this site has instructions on how to alter the pattern to crochet:

Here is a link that might be useful: crochet BSJ

    Bookmark   October 15, 2008 at 1:19AM
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Dash2

Thanks very much, Donna. Just curious. Have you given this a try yet? I've knitted a couple of the baby surprise. I've got a couple of things on the hook right now, so I will have to resist the urge to try this immediately. But I do wonder how it is to work.

    Bookmark   October 15, 2008 at 6:48PM
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sandra_ferguson

Copyright is, indeed, a thorny subject, but I suggest you read the following, which is pretty clear about what you can photocopy, share, etc. People put a lot of time, trouble and effort into creating something, that they then 'share' with those of us who aren't capable of doing it ourselves.... andwe need to behave in an honorable manner when dealing with their works.
A couple dates to remember...anything published before 1923 is in the public domain and free for everyone to use in any way.
Under the current U. S. copyright law, anything given expression in a tangible form,... a pattern, written words, photographs, charts, diagrams and any audio or video reproduction of the instructions...... and published after March 1, 1989 is protected by copyright law whether the copyright holder has included a copyright notice or not.
http://www.geocities.com/jbtocker/copyright/index.html

photocopys...photocopying individual patterns from a book is not allowed under copyright law. Only the copyright holder, be it the publisher or the designer, can give you the right to copy his or her work. You need to contact that publication or person first. If the book was checked out of the public library, you may make a photocopy for your own personal use. The key words here are OWN PERSONAL USE....this doesn't mean you may share it with others, but that you, yourself are the only one to use it...
These are pretty clear, I think. Personally, I'm so grateful that others more talented than I make their work available for me, that I want to protect their rights as a way of encouraging them to continue.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2008 at 3:25PM
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donna_loomis

Yarnlover, I have not tried the crochet version. Actually (don't hate me) I don't really like the look of it. I much prefer EZ's knit version. In general, I like the look of knitted clothing much more than crocheted. And I've been crocheting for more years than I've been knitting. I still love crochet, but usually not for wearables.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2008 at 3:55PM
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pinkcarnation

There is a lot of erronious information about copyright law on the net now, usually presented by someone with a bias. Oh, and just for the record, I agree that the work of designers should be respected, but that does not mean that they are entitled to have complete control over their designs after they are published and distributed, if the law says they cannot. It does.

Hey, don't take my word for it! Read what the government copyright law states about it:

The gist of the law is that there is a difference between the ownership of a copyright and the rights thereof, and the ownership of a "copy." It is called the "First Sale Doctrine." One can not of course, reproduce and sell the designs but if I want to make a copy from my book that I purchased, and give it to a friend, I may do so. I would not be selling or making a profit in any way from it. The design still belongs to the designer, but the book belongs to me. Consider this: Could a coloring book company sell a coloring book and dictate what colors are to be used on the pages? Of course not, yet those designs were created by an artist. I can do anything I want with that coloring book! I do not understand the logic of those who think it is okay to photocopy a pattern from a book in the library, but not from one's own copy!

    Bookmark   October 18, 2008 at 2:26PM
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pinkcarnation

Sorry, I forgot the link!

Here is a link that might be useful: http://www.copyright.gov/reports/studies/dmca/comments/Init018.pdf

    Bookmark   October 18, 2008 at 2:53PM
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damascusannie

On the subject of copyright: the design for a useful cannot usually be copyrighted although in some instances it can be patented--say for a unique baby carrier, or a new sleeve design. So, as a quilt pattern designer, I can copyright my text and drawings (art), but I cannot copyright the quilt itself. If I develop a completely original technique (unlikely!) I can possibly get a PATENT on that technique. So, if you buy a copyrighted pattern, you cannot reproduce that pattern in any way that's barred by the copyright, nor can you profit from reproductions--i.e. scan, print and sell them. What you do with the pattern in terms of YOUR OWN USE is up to you: color it, make it into a paper hat, modify it, use any colors, fabrics, thread to make it.

In an interesting twist, the fine line between useful object (can't be copyrighted) and the uniqueness of a quilt as a piece of ART (which can be copyrighted) was tested in the courts about two years ago when a Houston, TX hotel had Karastan custom-make their lobby carpeting EXACTLY from a quilt that the hotel owner's wife had seen at the Houston Quilt Show. The maker/designer of the quilt successfully sued Karastan for copyright infringement.

It's a fine line. In all honesty because it's virtually impossible to enforce copyright when it comes to quilt patterns, my partner and I don't even pay to have it done--it's just a waste of time and expense in our eyes. All we hope is that if someone uses one of our patterns to make a quilt, that he/she will credit us. Now, if I were to write a quilt book, I can get full copyright protection for the text and images, but again, not for the designs.

Annie

    Bookmark   October 18, 2008 at 4:32PM
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