Heat Pump News-13 HSPF?

tigerdunesMay 11, 2011

for those who worship at the altar of today's high eff heat pumps, here are several links that you will find interesting that I read on that other HVAC forum.




no endorsement, just info to ponder and research.

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no endorsement here either.
we get better % of dehumidification with
15-17 SEER no need for higher SEER.
9 hspf is enough of an upgrade.
this is based on years of comparing costs,
performnace, savings & of course what the home
owner can afford.
it would seem that the question would be
at what cost for higher hspf and seer??
there are better places to spend this added
cost for less dehumidification here in La.
but it is a good read! thanks tigerdunes.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 11:06AM
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all I can say is wow. If there is still people in this world heating with oil, they are crazy.

I wonder if other brands are going to start offering units with the invertor technology with these types of hspf/seer.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 11:20AM
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energy rater

I agree with your post.

The cost does seem to be the key. The high HSPF though in a true linear graph down to lower temps without backup strip heat makes this product very interesting to those oil users in cold climates. That was the promise of the Arcadia that really was never fully realized and as of now is reported to be out of business.

I wonder what Trane is doing on their R & D. They had a similar product in the 90s that was ahead of its time and not cost effective. There are still some in use today. A well established Trane dealer/owner told me several yrs ago that he was still using that system in his personal home.

It will be interesting to see the reception as this new product is rolled out to the market.


    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 12:24PM
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I will be interestd in seeing what they charge for this. Being in Houston, this will be worth considering when I build next year. I have access to only propane so I've been hesitnat to consider a heat pump, but this might change my mind.

Since we rarely get in the 20s, not having to have strips would be nice.

Thanks for posting this!

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 2:26PM
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Just a word of caution here, careful what you wish for. While I do like Carrier Infinity heat pumps, the price of this system may be approaching that of geothermal.

If you consider a geothermal split system (not necessarily a Carrier unit) coupled with a Carrier Infinity fan coil unit (excellent choice), the cost of the Infinity inverter heat pump may be (considerably) more than that of the geo split HP. That cost differential applied to the drilling could make the geothermal system more attractive.

Geothermal is more expensive - but you're already looking at the high-end of premium high-end systems with this air-source HP. Geothermal will still outperform these new systems, have longer life cycles, less maintenance, no outdoor equipment, preheat your domestic hot water and no defrost cycles - ever!

The smart choice would be to get estimates on both.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 12:43AM
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geo prices here are very very high.
I hear that they are lower in other states,
but this is not the case in La.

eoz you should look at the spec's tigerdunes
uses for heat pumps as a standard. good info there.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 11:46AM
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for eoz

these are my minimum specs for a new HP system. both outside and inside units should be replaced to have a properly matched system.

15 SEER, 12.5+ EER, 9 HSPF
best matching VS air handler
full BTUs in both cooling and heating for your rated size
R-410a refrigerant(same as Puron)
scroll compressor preferred
electronic demand defrost preferred
thermostat with "dehumidify on demand" feature
staged backup heat strips
new and correctly sized refrigerant lineset

you want a thorough inspection of your ductwork system. size, overall condition, supply and return lines, insulation qualities, leak test, etc.

any hot/cold spot issues in your home should be addressed.

I would only use authorized dealers for the various brands that provide quotes. see mfg websites.

I would look at Trane/AmStd,Rheem/Rudd,Carrier/Bryant.

I would not purchase a new HP system that did not have electronic demand defrost.


    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 12:24PM
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Tigerdunes/energyrater - Thanks for the info, I will put it in my files. Fortunately I am doing new construction and building it owner builder style so I will be able to control the specs.

In about 6 months I will probably post again and see how this new Carrier unit is turning out. Thanks for all the incredible advice.

    Bookmark   May 12, 2011 at 11:50PM
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more product data on this new VS heat pump being released.

see attached link

Here is a link that might be useful: 25VNA Infinity VS Heat Pump

    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 7:57AM
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I looked over the detailed specs from the previous post. It appears they are pulling a fast one with this new product (in a way). Although the number of btu's produced per hour doesn't change at 17 degrees compared to the warm temperatures, the COP certainly does change!!! The COP at 17 degrees is around 2.4. That certainly isn't that special. The COP at 47 is in the low 4's. Thats good ofcourse. Everybody likes to use the heatpump when its mild out. They must accomplish keeping the btu's the same by ramping up the speed of the compressor and making it work harder.

Basically a user of this heatpump will be able to use resistance heat less and continue to use the heatpump exclusively down to lower temperatures. It will consume more energy at lower temps though as the heatpump will work at a higher percentage of its max capacity to produce warm temps with colder outside air.

    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 12:46PM
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I think it's the defrost cycles where you get creamed - especially in colder climates!


    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 8:25PM
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I should add that the defrost cycles are somewhat ameliorated by having staged backup, which this system has. As the outdoor temperature really drops the 2nd & 3rd stage backup will activate.


    Bookmark   May 13, 2011 at 8:36PM
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