Is this a Good Price? Trane XV95 Furnace & XR15 Heat Pump

aaronm689April 26, 2013

Our 21 year old Furnace and A/C is beyond repair. We've had 4 different local companies come out and provide their recommendations (all use different manufacturers equipment). We've decided we're most comfortable with Trane and have narrowed in on the specific system listed below. We would be very confident going with this installer, but wanted to see if we're leaving money on the table. I realize someone could probably install for less and not do as quality of an installation. Guess what I'm trying to figure out is, what's the bare minimum anyone would charge for this system - in other words how much extra am I paying my installer for their superior quality and is there any room there to negotiate out some of their profit still... On to the fun stuff...

We were quoted a price of $9,146 if we pay cash or check for the following:
-Trane XV95 80K BTU, 97% High Efficient 2 Stage Variable Speed Fan Gas Furnace
-Trane XR15 Heat Pump 14.25 SEER
-Trane 4TXCB048 4 Ton High Efficient Cased Air Conditioner Coil, 410A Refrigerant
-1 Trane XL802 Thermostat
-Honey Well Whole Home Humidifier - OR - Whole Home 5" Media Filter

Please let me know if this is a fair price or what you believe a fair price to be for this equipment and installation.

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tigerdunes

Location please.

Size of home would be nice.

No sizes given on condenser or furnace. That would be helpful.

I would want a better thermostat.

And regardless of the humidifier, I would definitely want Trane's Perfect Fit pleated media cabinet that fits the furnace like a hand should fit a glove.

IMO

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 7:26PM
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aaronm689

We're in Cincinnati, OH. Home size is 2800 sqft. Guess I thought I provided the condenser and furnace sizes - can you give an example of what these measurements would be?

Thanks, Aaron

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 9:24PM
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tigerdunes

Anyone looking at DF system these days should have a good understanding of both their nat gas rate vs electric rate.

Post your all inclusive rates to see if DF system is able to leverage one rate against another. Depending on location, this is becoming quite difficult and no longer advantageous as it once was.

IMO

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 9:26PM
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tigerdunes

Two story or single story?

Sizes are BTUs of furnace and AC condenser not physical measurements.

???

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 9:30PM
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aaronm689

Thanks. It's a 2 story. Furnace BTU's are 80,000 and AC just says Trane XR16 4 Ton High Efficient Cased Air Conditioner Coil (4XTCB048).

Electric is $.0565 per KWH
Gas is $.525 per CCF

This post was edited by aaronm689 on Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 22:32

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 10:26PM
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aaronm689

Here are the exact files he left with us if this helps...
Ignore hand written "heat pump" note - that's me saying we'd choose to replace the A/C with a heat pump - the unit shown on this page is an A/C.

This post was edited by aaronm689 on Fri, Apr 26, 13 at 22:43

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 10:39PM
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aaronm689

Additional options...

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 10:40PM
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aaronm689

Sorry, last post til you get a chance to respond. I found some additional info on load calculations he did. It shows Heating load is 62,995 Btuh and Cooling Load is 39,896 Btuh. Also, Internal Gains are 11,936 Btuh. Thanks again.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 10:52PM
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TravisinHV

Wow, those prices would be very cheap for my area in Portland oregon. My company would install that heat pump alone for about 8K and the furnace would be another 5K.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2013 at 11:20PM
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tigerdunes

Not the best coil selection. I would want an evap coil that yielded minimum 8.5 HSPF heating efficiency for HP heating.

I dislike the thermostat selection. Request HW VP IAQ for true two stage heat staging based on demand plus outdoor sensor to control switchover rom HP to nat gas heating.

As mentioned earlier, I would want the Perfect Fit Media filter cabinet.

From your cooling load, a 3 1/2 ton HP may be borderline satisfactory.

IMO

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 8:05AM
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tigerdunes

Aaron

You should recheck your electric and nat gas rates.

Difficult for me to believe they accurately reflect all inclusive costs.

IMO

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 11:14AM
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saltidawg

aaron said, "Electric is $.0565 per KWH"

Looked on-line. That is the Supply cost only... likely your cost dlivered with taxes and fees is something more that twice that.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 12:20PM
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aaronm689

Update on Fuel Costs:

Gas charges are: $25.33 Fixed Monthly Charge and $.634 per CCF

Electric charges are: $.116 per KWH

I guess my real question is: is the price they provided for the system noted a good price or not. Seperately, if you don't think they picked the right system, what system would you recommend? (furnace and a/c or furnace and heat pump and what make/model etc.)

    Bookmark   April 28, 2013 at 6:34PM
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tigerdunes

I still have little confidence in the rates you posted especially for nat gas.

But if correct, then a HP makes no economic sense at all.

Equipment wise, Trane makes great equipment. However, they have poor HSPF efficiency for HPs in DF systems. The system your dealer quoted had an 8.2 HSPF which is pathetic.

For your location, I might consider a full modulating high eff furnace paired with a high eff two stage AC condenser fully communicating. I would at the least get a price on a Carrier system.

IMO

    Bookmark   April 29, 2013 at 8:27AM
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aaronm689

Thanks for everyone's input. We've decided to go with the:
Trane XV95 80,000 BTU, 97% High Efficient 2 Stage Variable Speed Fan Gas Furnace
Trane XR15 3.5 Ton 14 SEER A/C
Trane 4TXCB048 4 Ton High Efficient Cased Air Conditioner Coil, 410A Refrigerant.

The pricing they included was with the Trane XL802 Thermostat, Honeywell Whole Home Humidifier - and - Whole Home 5" Media Filter.

Tigerdunes - you mentioned I should upgrade the thermostat, was that just when we were thinking heat pump, or do you not think the XL802 is right for this system?

Also I mentioned the Trane Perfect Fit Media Filter and my salesman said he'd quoted the Honeywell, which was essentially the same thing. He said they'd be glad to do the perfect fit, but it'd prolly be an extra $100 or so. Same question here, is there a noticeable difference between these 2 filters?

Thanks again for the advice, Aaron

    Bookmark   April 30, 2013 at 10:23PM
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tigerdunes

I would pay $100 for Trane's Perfect Fit Media filter Cabinet. It is very heavy duty compared to the Honeywell and sized to fit the furnace like a hand fits a glove. Less about the filters and more about the fit and quality of cabinet. I do believe the Trane takes a 5" filter, the HW a 4" filter. BTW, I have the Trane. Very easy to replace old filter.

As far as thermostat, first choice would be HW VP Prestige IAQ, 2nd choice would be HW Mdl 8321 (same as Trane 803).. I like the IAQ because it is a true two stage thermostat, has dehumidify on demand feature for AC cooling, and can handle the control of an add on HW humidifier. Discuss carefully with your dealer.

This is a nice system you are getting.

The AHRI directory site is down for maintenance or else I would look up the matching AHRI number. I would ask dealer to give you the matching number and the performance/efficiency numbers for AC. Still believe you should get a quote on a Carrier Infinity.

IMO

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 6:18AM
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tigerdunes

5007324 Active Systems XR15 TRANE 4TTR5042E1 4TXCB048BC3 *UH2B080A9V4 39500 12.00 14.25 1 RCU-A-CB 335

    Bookmark   May 1, 2013 at 11:39AM
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