What do you think of this HVAC quote?

jdougjoMarch 18, 2011

I've received some quotes for my 2 story 2400 sq ft home in Raleigh NC and the best so far seems to be the following. Does this look OK?

2nd Floor

Furnace

Trane XV80 Variable-speed 80%

TDD2B080A9V3VA

Heat Pump SEER 15

Trane XR15

2.5 Ton

4TWR5030E

Coil

Trane 4TXCB036BC3HCA

Media Cabinet

5" Honeywell

Thermostat

Honeywell IAQ

1st Floor

Furnace

Trane XV95 Variable-speed 95%

TUH2B080A9V3VA

Heat Pump SEER 15

Trane XR15

2 Ton

4TWR5024E

Coil

Trane 4TXCB031BC3HCA

Media Cabinet

5" Honeywell

Thermostat

Honeywell IAQ

Includes running gas line from crawl space to attic

Reuse existing refrigerant lines

Permits and inspections

New pads for compressors

$6676 (2nd floor) + $6624 (1st floor) + $750 (Media Cabinets)

-$600 Gas Co. rebate

-$100 Elec Co. rebate

-$300 Fed Tax credit

$13050 total

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neohioheatpump

Nice equipment, prices don't seem too bad considering the nice equipment. Good choice Dual-fuel is the way to go.

4.5 tons of heating and cooling for 2400 square feet seems like alot, but if its zone I supposse it should be ok.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 7:37AM
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ryanhughes

I think you're oversized on heating, even if they are two stage furnaces. A load calculation should be done to determine the correct size equipment for your home.

I think the equipment selection and price is great. But I would want to be sure that the furnaces are not oversized.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 8:41AM
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tigerdunes

doug

nothing special about the pricing. if you like Trane, then get a price from sister company AmStandard.

a 95% eff furnace paired with heat pump for downstairs is overkill for Raleigh. I would drop down to the XV80 if paired with heat pump or drop heat pump and go with mod or XV95 furnace.

and btw you are being grossly oversized on furnaces.

IMO

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 8:49AM
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jdougjo

Tigerdunes,

I got an AmStandard quote and it was higher. Go figure.

All the companies I talked to did not like the idea of an 80% furnace in the crawl space because of the venting requirements. Arguments were that you have to find space for a large powered vent and that they are a point of failure and not cheap if they need replacing. BS?

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 9:04AM
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tigerdunes

doug

you are grossly oversized on furnaces.

a 60K on the XV80 for upstairs would be fine.

if not the XV80 for downstairs system, then drop the HP for the AC model and go with 60K mod or XV95. where is your downstairs furnace located now?

IMO

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 9:13AM
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jdougjo

Don't really have a furnace now. I'm replacing an Apollo Hydroheat system. Water heaters are in the garage.

I guess I should find out what the difference is in the cost between the HP and AC for downstairs and try to calculate if it's worth keeping the HP. Gas prices here seem to keep going up while electricity seems to be staying fairly cheap.

I assume the lower BTU furnaces are going to be cheaper to run?

One vendor did a load calc and he's the last one I'm waiting on a quote from. It said 1.5 ton first floor and 2.5 second.

The Trane guy was going to use a 1.5 on 1st floor but then said he decided to bump to 2 (supposedly at no extra cost) because he wanted to make sure in heat mode the unit was sufficient. Said he was against oversizing but that with var speed furnace it would be alright. Any credence to this?

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 9:35AM
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tigerdunes

doug

you are probably sized correctly on outside condensers whether AC or HPs considering location and "DOD" feature on the HW VP IAQ stat.

definitely not on the furnaces. on a 60k 95% for downstairs and 60K 80% for upstairs, it would have to be very cold for you to even use the second stage on either. oversizing will only cost you in your wallet. you don't want it.

IMO

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 10:22AM
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jdougjo

I'll talk to them about lowering the size of the furnaces.

I assume the larger output units costs more to purchase.

Are they also less efficient so cost more to run than if they were sized smaller?

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 10:43AM
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tigerdunes

doug
don't expect any large price reduction by dropping down to the next furnace size. you will save on operational costs.

efficiency of furnaces will remain the same regardless of size.

IMO

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 11:04AM
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jdougjo

According to the Trane website the TDD2B080A9V3VA for the 2nd floor is a 60K BTU. Should I go down one to the 48K model?

Model Height (in.) Width (in.) Depth (in.) Nominal Capacity Output (BTUH) Stage2/Stage1 ICS* AFUE
TDD2B060A9V3VA 40 17.5 28 48,000/31,200 80
TDD2B080A9V3VA 40 17.5 28 63,000/41,600 80
TDD2C100A9V5VA 40 21.0 28 81,000/52,000 80
TDD2D120A9V5VA 40 24.5 28 95,000/62,400 80

But, the TUH2B080A9V3VA for downstairs is 76K. So, you think I need to drop the 58K model.

Model Height (in.) Width (in.) Depth (in.) Nominal Capacity Output (BTUH) Stage1/Stage2 ICS* AFUE
TUH2B060A9V3VA 40 17.5 28 37,700/58,000 96.7
TUH2B080A9V3VA 40 17.5 28 49,500/76,000 95.0
TUH2C100A9V4VA 40 21.0 28 61,800/95,000 95.0
TUH2D120A9V5VA 40 24.5 28 74,500/114,700 95.6

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 11:24AM
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tigerdunes

doug

more is not better in HVAC.

TDD2B060A9V3VA 40 17.5 28 48,000/31,200 80

TUH2B060A9V3VA 40 17.5 28 37,700/58,000 96.7

if 95% for downstairs furnace, then I would drop the HP for the comparable AC mdl.

IMO

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 12:00PM
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neohioheatpump

I would keep the heatpump model rather than dropping down to the A/C even if your going with 95% furnace. The heatpump model shouldn't cost that much more then A/C model. Even though you would save money by dropping to the A/C on install costs you would lose the flexibility to heat with electricity in-case gas gets expensive again.

Heatpumps provide a nice steady heat also. Currently with gas being cheap like it is, I run the heatpump when 35 and up and gas when below 35. Nice comfort and energy savings. Heatpumps create heat very inexpensively in these temperature ranges also.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 12:31PM
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jdougjo

Thanks guys for the help. It's great to get such informed feedback from you.

I'll get them to drop the BTUs on the furnaces and find out the difference between the HP and AC. I like the idea of the heat pump, but see that 95% furnaces are slightly more cheaper to run here than 9.0 HSPF heat pumps, so not sure it makes sense to get it other than future proofing against rising gas costs.

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 12:59PM
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tigerdunes

doug

the fact is whether 95% or 80% furnace, you will rarely if ever need the second stage. I would drop the HP for the full modulating 95% furnace mdl-use what you need.
too bad you can't use the 80% for downstairs.

IMO

    Bookmark   March 18, 2011 at 1:03PM
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