How do I not feel like this?

tklnJuly 21, 2006

Hey all...I am not sure if posting here is the best idea, because I guess it's more of a venting/rant situation, and I already know the reason why I feel the way I do, and the story is so long that I can't really give everyone all the details...but I guess at the very least it will make me feel better, so here goes nothing!

I'm 33, gonna be 34 in Sept. I still live at home with mom, after dad passed away 8 years ago, decided not to move out to save money and also to watch over mom, plus so she wouldn't sell the house. I am an only child.

My fiance is 40. He is the oldest of 3. Youngest sister is my age, married since she was 20, with four kids. His younger brother is 36, married a year and a half or so, just became a dad this morning. His wife is 24.

SO and I have been together almost ten years. We got engaged about a year ago. The plan, for the last year or so, has been to add a second floor apartment to our house for my mom, and then we can live downstairs, hoping to get married next year. We also own a condo in VT which we bought a little over 2 years ago. We rent that out mostly, though we go up a few times a year.

Well, this plan has totally fallen through the last week. Financially, there is no way in heck we can afford to build the second floor and survive. Which means no marriage. Now, I know everyone will mention the option of selling the condo - however, we bought that with retirement in mind (neither of us have pentions or any good retirement plans), plus we will get killed with taxes if we sell this soon. Plus everyone says we will be crazy to sell, as we got an amazing deal on the unit, and we completely renovated it from top to bottom (oh, rentals cover about 1/2 mortgage and expenses, so there is a decent amount of out of pocket). The other option would be to live married with my mom, which I'm sorry, will not happen. I love my mom, but she is a VERY difficult and nasty woman (and I am not exagerating, it's just her personality) and it's hard enough for me to live with her, let alone me and SO.

While I am sure we will come up with a solution at some point, right now I am insanely depressed. SOOOO depressed. We are now thinking we have to push the wedding back 3 or 4 years. Which feels like an eternity to's not so much the wedding per se, but the 'next step' of my life - finally being able to live with my SO, not live with my mom, have our own space, etc...I have been wallowing in self pity all week....I just feel so trapped, and not able to change any of our situation...

And to top it off, SO's SIL had the baby this morning...SO's brother and SIL are the 'golden children' of the family - SO's mom dotes on his brother like no tomorrow, and SIL the same way...and everyone is so ecstatic for this event. Of course, I don't blame them, but I have all this envy...they got engaged way before us (I was devestated then too), their wedding was probably the WORST day of my entire life (for many reasons, not just my own self pity) and now this...I feel like everytime his brother and wife are happy, I'm miserable!

I know that I'm transferring my disapointment on their happiness, and I shouldn't do that...I just can't control it right now. Honestly, the LAST thing I want to do right now is go visit them at the hospital with all their happy friends and family and BLAH.

Sigh. Any words of advice to help me get through this? I know it will pass eventually, but I just feel so yucky right now.


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First, I think you just need a hug!

I can totally understand how you feel. It is so difficult to be happy for someone else when you are not happy about yourself.

Now about you- You are an adult and you have been with your fiance for 10 years. That is long enough to know that you want to be together.
Where does your SO live? Can you move there?
The size of the place doesn't matter. You need to move out of your mother's house AND GET MARRIED!
It is time for you to start a family with your fiance.
I'm sure you can find an apartment you can afford.

You must move on with your life. If you wait until you can afford it, it may never happen! You can't keep putting the marriage off, UNLESS one of you is not sure. That is another story.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 12:27PM
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Lucy, my youngest brother lived at home and took the responsibility of looking after our mom until he was 38. He went with someone for 9 years before they got engaged.

But they decided to get married and they moved out. They also moved to another city and he went back and forth looking after mom as best he could. She didn't like it but she did just fine. Really.

He had to have his own life and so do you. At your age, 3 to 4 years more isn't good. I'm sure you love your SO. Get married. Move out. Perhaps you can find a place close by.

No worthwhile SO will wait forever and I think you might regret choosing mom over a spouse in the future.

You have a right to your own life and should not have to put it on hold. Don't force yourself into selling anything you shouldn't. Talk to your SO, call for the question and go for it! It's time.

Best of luck!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 1:04PM
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Thanks guys...I never knew virtual hugs could feel so good! :-)

Okay - some more SO, due to some very unfortunate circumstances from years ago, moved back home just before we met. So he still lives with his folks too...He used the remainder of his savings for the down payment and renovations on the condo.

The reason we can't afford an apartment is because we have two mortgages - one for the condo, and one for my mom's house. Though it was totally paid off, we took out a mortgage to pay for all the wonderful renovations we did, thinking we were going to live there for a while...

Moving out of NY has been a major option for us - I think we're just scared too. We've lived here forever, and do love the city for many things, but also are dying to get out. I just didn't think it would be a decision we would have to make in order to get married...I think the final decision will be to sell my mom's house, move out of state and buy an apartment for my mom here, and have an in-law apartment for her in our new place. It's just scary, plus we just spent all this money and I've lived here for my entire life, blah blah blah...

I know the right decision will come to us eventually, I just hope it's within months and not years!!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 1:27PM
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What a tough situation you're in. It's VERY hard to see other people moving on in the life you have envisioned for yourself, if your life has taken the scenic route for some reason...sometimes in those moments all I can call on is deep breathing, literally, to remind me I'm a living being and have just as much right to my path, which I've chosen in good-faith and for valid reasons, as those who are more visibly successful (in whatever way) have to theirs...((((more hugs))))

rococogurl & artteacher have it right, IMO. You've done right by your mom (VERY right, given her personality as you describe it); it's not only fair but *healthy* that you should go forth and begin your own adult life. *IF* you really are sure about your fiance, then nothing material in the world can stop a marriage of true minds, as it were--we've all seen weddings on deathbeds, weddings the minute before someone ships out on active duty, etc...

My first question was artteacher's: where does your SO live? Can you move there? But I'm guessing not, or you would have done that already. If not, can you put what he's paying toward somewhere where you can both live? What is *his* proposal for how this can work out without the two of your tearing your hair out for 3 more years? It's a shared problem, should be a shared solution...Sometimes it requires living lean for a while, but that can be romantic too. I know this from personal experience...

And re the VT place? So what if "everyone" says you'd be crazy to sell it. What is crazy in one context is the only sensible answer in others--in your all's case, are you really going to let retirement plans get in the way of *starting* your life? We all may die tomorrow, walk off the curb and get hit by a car. If you've held it for *more* than two years, isn't that the break point for when you are free of taxes on the first $250K of profit? (not legal/tax advice, just wondering)

I'll be checking in on the thread to see how you're doing...if you can, maybe even share with your SO how you're feeling about going to see your SIL...a trouble shared is a burden lifted, as they say...and we're all with you if you go, you know...we'll be right there in your computer saying "hang in there, Lucy! You're gaining serious karma points here!" and you can come vent it all when you're done...

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 1:30PM
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oops, we crossed in cyberspace...

you have already answered some of my questions; I still encourage you to think *bold* and *big*...moving out of NY can be done, we've done it :) Just really research where you would move to see if it would be a cultural fit. Personal experience...we're happy now but for three years we felt we were in the Witness Relocation Program...

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 1:33PM
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I'll add my advice, too, to just get on with it. The "it" being your grown-up life.

But, I'd certainly consider selling the VT place to clear the debts and straighten out the complicated equity situation: if I read your post right, you (and maybe your Mother) somehow mortgaged your family's house to pay for renovations at the VT place which you and your SO own, together. Maybe it's simpler than I'm imagining, but this kind of cross investment may have repercussions down the road.

And anyway, since you have been renting the VT house, and obviously had rental income, the tax situation is not the same as a simple second home investment, or for a primary home where you have been living. You need tax advice so you know where you stand there. The capital gains may not be as bad as you imagine. Starting out together, with out complicated and heavy debt will make your married life easier.

And then, there's the question of children (which seems to be something that that precipitated your unhappiness today). The plain fact of the matter is the longer you wait, the harder time you may have getting preg. (And the more health and genetic issues you face.) You're still in your early 30's but believe me, if you wait around "a few more years" you'll be looking at your 40's .... So, if kids are important, don't let silly things like the cost of a reno, or who lives where, get in your way.

Selling your childhood home can be tough, I know. What if you sold the VT place, and paid off mortgages, would there be enough left over for a down payment to buy your childhood home from your Mother and then she could move somewhere else she'd like better -by herself? Obviously then you and your SO/husband would need a mortgage to buy it from her.

"Everybody's" advice (including mine) about the wisdom of selling the VT place should take second place to you moving ahead with whatever it is you really want. But trying to be a canny RE investor, is much less important than being a happy person, wife, and/or Mama, if that's what your goal is.


    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 2:18PM
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I'm also sending hugs your way because you are in a difficult situation and there's no easy way to deal with it.

But here's how I see it. Basically you need to make a choice about what is more important to you. Is it the childhood home and VT condo, which to me represent the past and too distant future, or marriage and kids, which I feel represent the immediate and forseeable future?

If you had the ability to hang on to the properties AND get married and start a family, that would be great. Looks like you don't, and it sounds to me like the fact that you can't have the marriage/family scenario is what's really getting you down.

So, you're hanging on to the childhood home for some memories/sentiment. Trust me on this, a house is just a material thing. Happiness lies within your interpersonal relationships, it cannot be derived from things. As far as the VT condo, if you sell it, will it bring you more financial stability? IOW if selling it won't put you into further debt, I'd sell it. What's crazy for one person might make perfect sense for another. It's crazy to sell it if you can afford to keep it. But it's crazy to keep it if it's keeping you from being happy.

In short, my advice is to ditch any material thing that is standing in the way of your happiness. Get rid of both mortgages, or get them down to one, and get your mother into a separate living arrangement, and get on with your life.

I wish you the best of luck!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 4:35PM
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Hope you don't mind outside advice jumping in here but:

Your life should not be determined by where your mortgages are. How do you want to live? Where do you want to live? Figure out where you want to be, and who you want to be with and let everything else arrange itself around that.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2006 at 7:59PM
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I am so sorry that you are feeling trapped and frustrated right now. This is a difficult situation to be sure, and, as you said at the onset, there are probably so many other considerations and questions that you are just not going to post on a message board.
While it's true that none of us know you personally, or really know the details of your life, it seems clear to me that the most important thing right now, to you, is This man that you love. Your mom has to be taken care of to some extent, you have financial considerations that you can't ignore, and not every piece of this puzzle is going to fall into place for you right now. So, since you needed to vent, and since I feel a strong need to advise, here is what I think you ought to consider doing.......

Marry the man you love. Don't wait for some big amazing wedding or the money for an incredible honeymoon. Don't wait to get all the "Bugs" worked out of your life plan. If you know that he's the one for you, and if he feels the same, then, move forward on that One Thing. It will give you that much happiness. And it will give you the togetherness and the proximity, to work out the other details.......together, where you can really talk things out and consider what may work.
Yes, I heard you. I know that you don't want to live with your mom. I don't know her but I've met people who are unpleasant to be around. That's going to be a problem. But I guarantee you this. If the two of you make a united stand and make a life for yourselves, even temporarily with your mom, Your new husband is going to have some great ideas very soon about how to make a separation between her and the two of you. Or maybe you can move temporarily in with his folks. I don't know. But just do it. Get this part of your life started. Without a start, there can be no forward movement.

I wish you both the best.


    Bookmark   July 22, 2006 at 1:55AM
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(((((((((((( LUCY )))))))))))))))))

I know this may sound like hogwash heart on sleeve crap BUT your joint decision to buy the condo was made when you thought you could afford to extend your mum's home. It hasn't worked out- what is more important?
Sticking with the condo for some unknown unplanned future? or accepting you made a mistake, selling the condo and getting on with the life you want to live?

As for SO's siblings- don't use them as a yard stick to measure your success or happiness. Create your happiness.

Don't wait for tomorrow to live the life you want to live today. There may not be a tomorrow!


    Bookmark   July 22, 2006 at 4:13AM
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I know this may start WW3 but...
IMHO... if you wait another 3 to 4 years before marriage, then plan a family you may find that the falling pregnant part doesn't work out as smoothly as planned. If you have difficulties falling pregnant you will have less time to follow IVF type alternatives. Plus you will need to consider all the additional risks to you and the baby associated with pregnancy past 35.
I know many people these days have happy health preganancies in their 40's, but there are still risks that need to be acknowledged.

Please Lucy, consider this in your plans. I would hate to think you look back and regret time wasted waiting to save up money.


    Bookmark   July 22, 2006 at 4:23AM
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Hey guys...thanks so much for all the advice and kind has really helped!

Molly - just to let you know, we took out a mortgage on my mom's house to pay for all the renovations we did here - our new kitchen (woo hoo), both bathrooms, basically a whole house redo...SO's savings paid for the condo renovations....

When I informed SO yesterday that I had another 'crying' moment at work, he realized we definitely need a better plan. :-) He knows I don't cry about things often, and I definitely am not the type of person to let things bother me for a whole we discussed our options...we are thinking that we will spend the next year actually using and enjoying the condo, and then we will make a decision to sell or move based upon where we are financially at that time...

I can deal with waiting another year, and getting married in two instead of one. I mean, yeah, I'd RATHER get married next year...

Ironically, it is our attitude of living today and not waiting til tomorrow that sort of put us in this position...we spent the first 7-8 years of our relationship travelling all over the world...going away weeks at a time, spending money (since we had no mortgages, ha ha) and just enjoying life...well, heck, when you spend your paychecks like we did, not much left to go into savings. :-) But I wouldn't trade it in for the world...we have such amazing memories and experienced so much, it was worth it. Now we're just paying the price!

Thanks again everyone!

    Bookmark   July 22, 2006 at 9:16AM
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Lucy, I'm glad that you all talked it out and have developed a plan you feel comfortable with...I have to say that you sure do have a funny back story to your current quandary (about traveling all over the world as what got you into this :))! Everyone's got their own peculiar histories, that's for sure.

Just another thought: if the baby issue is a huge ticking clock inside you (as it became for me suddenly at 33, and we then spent the next 4 years *trying*, since it wasn't as easy for me to hold on to a pregnancy as it was for me to get pregnant) don't *necessarily* have to wait to be married before you have kids. I have friends (two pairs I can think of offhand) who have had kids "outside wedlock" and who have no intention of getting married because they see marriage as an unnecessary intrusion of the state into personal life, with attendant tax penalties, but are definitely committed to each other and to their families forever. I'm not saying you have to take it so far as never getting married, but if your personal ethics speak to you in this way, you could definitely start the baby process before the formal ceremony. It's been done before...

I thought after I miscarried at 33 that I'd then try again and bang we'd have a baby. Nuh-uh. It took years and three different very high-level OB/GYN teams (heads of university programs in NYC and Philly, no kidding) to figure out what was going on. I wish my clock had gone off earlier; we'd have more children...but anyway, if a baby or babies are a definite part of your plan, time is of the essence, as so many other folks have said here. I'm just offering my experience as living proof of what they've said.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2006 at 12:26PM
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I'm so glad to hear you and your SO were able to sit down and talk about everything. That's always the best first step, and was what I was going to suggest anyway.

But I'm curious about the still-waiting 1-2 years to get married. I mean, after 10 years together, I would think you would know -- or perhaps, know that you don't know or aren't sure. DH and I were in the final stages of planning a fabulous island wedding when life intervened in a very messy way, forcing an 'indefinite postponement.' But once we sorted out the mess, we realized we wanted to be married very, very much, and planned a small, beautiful wedding in less than 2 weeks. (We sold his house and moved him into mine in the weeks after we got married.)

In your first post, you sounded like someone who really, really wanted to marry this man and move forward with your own life together. But in your most recent post, you sounded like you weren't 100% ready to give up the 'globe-hopping' and 'grow up' in an 'official' way. I may be way out of line here, but... The decision to "spend the next year actually using and enjoying the condo, and then we will make a decision to sell or move based upon where we are financially at that time... " sounds to me more like a *non-decision*. So you've decided to spend more time at the condo -- This gets you closer to marriage and babies, uh, how?

I'm sorry to be so blunt, and I mean this with concern for your wellfare, not as any type of reprimand -- but if you're still in a 'holding pattern', you haven't solved your problem... How long are you willing to put your own life on hold, waiting for your mother, job, house, condo, finances, renovations, health, pets, etc. to 'work out'? You can accommodate them, or they can accommodate you - your life, your choice.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2006 at 3:44PM
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I'm sorry you are having such a difficult time. As I read through this thread, the main thing I kept wondering was why any of these issues are really preventing you from getting married. If you want to be married, why not get married and then sort all these issues out? It sounds like you and SO spend a lot of time together away from either of your homes, such as at the condo. Why not get married and then spend the next year enjoying the condo? Even if you don't live together right away because of both of you living with parents, you can still be married. I've known a number of married couples who didn't live together all the time (academic couples where both have jobs in different cities, spouses who go away to school for a period of time, and couples with financial barriers like your's). You and SO have been together long enough to know that you can make it work even when you aren't living together, so why not just go ahead and get married?

I'm not sure how much of this is about the wedding itself. If that is some of it, I'll just offer this personal experience: I've never been the type to daydream about the "perfect" wedding, and when I got married, our wedding was very nice, but fairly modest (outdoors at my FIL's home, we did much of the prep work ourselves, I used an off-the-rack dress that wasn't even designed as a wedding dress (cost about $50.00) and made my own veil, etc.). I enjoyed my wedding very much, but looking back, I could have done even less than that and been perfectly happy. What I really wanted was to be married to DH. Now after 8 years, that is what makes me happy, not having a wedding. I think if we had gotten married at city hall by a justice of the peace, I would be just as happy today because I have a wonderful marriage with the man I love.

I know this is very different than the way you've been thinking about things, or than most of the very wise advice you've been given here. I just thought it might be useful to have another way to think about it.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2006 at 1:45PM
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I'm going to go out on a limb here, trying to tread carefully. Are the decisions you and your fiance are making truly mutual decisions, or is he the driving force behind them? Because if he is the one who keeps deciding to put the wedding off due to these external factors, then I think it's time to take a long hard look at the relationship and what may be major committment issues for him. I know what it's like to love someone and feel committed but not get the same feeling of committment, on a consistent basis, in return. It's not a healthy thing. If that is what is going on then I highly suggest you see a therapist to help you sort out your feelings and choose the best way to move forward. If I'm way off base, then please don't take offense - - it's hard to know what's going on without witnessing it first-hand!

    Bookmark   July 24, 2006 at 4:19PM
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I dated my DH for 7 years before we got married, and we were married almost 3 years before we lived together. If you really want to be married, then you should get married. If it is something you both really want then you will find a way to do it.

I am a little concerned that you have co-mingled assets and are not married. Or do you now own your "mother's" house and he owns the VT condo?

You now own your mother's house, which you renovated? And she lived there with you? Sell it! If she needs to live with you then buy something that would work. There are lots of houses with in-law apartments.

I am concerned that your SO does not want to live with/near your mother (you said she is nasty), and is procrastinating to avoid that. I have a MIL who is NOT nasty, but Hell would freeze over before I would live with/close to her.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2006 at 5:19PM
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Hi everyone...

See, now I knew there would be a lot of details that I left out that would be important!!!

Ironically, it is SO who has never wanted to leave my mom behind. For years, we've talked about moving away, and he said that he couldn't in good conscience leave her here by herself. Although he doesn't 'like' her either, he does love her (bless his soul!).

And oh - this is SOOO not about the 'wedding'. I could care less about THAT! I mean, yes, I would love for it to be a beautiful wedding, but I definitely am not a bridezilla!! A backyard BBQ would be just FINE with me.

And it's not so much about being married, as living together, I guess. I just want our own space, you know? Where we can do what we want, when we want, etc... we spend most of our time here at my mom's house - she works FT and also works out 6x a week, so she is pretty independent...

Yes, the condo is in both our names...we've shared many things over the years - we owned land together at one point, we have a joint savings account (for years), so money or possessions is not an issue. There is a huge amount of trust and love between us, and it's not about not wanting to move forward.

I think the problem is more that we want it all (ie, keep the condo and the house), and it's just not going to work out like that.

Also - we are 50/50 on kids...still not sure if want to have any. And we are open to adoption, so I am not TOO concerned about the biological clock. Not yet anyway....

Sweeby - you are correct. It's still a holding pattern. Sigh.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2006 at 5:37PM
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Marriage and having a baby have at least one thing in common.

If you wait until the "perfect" time to do it--it will never happen.

One of my best friends put off having a baby until the perfect time and when the perfect time came around--she was unable to get pregnant.

My advice--Don't put off your life any longer. Make up your mind what you want and make it happen.

Hope it all works out for you.

    Bookmark   July 24, 2006 at 5:49PM
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Wow... you guys are all such wonderful people. The way you approach issues, sensitively offer advice and show caring is 100%!

    Bookmark   July 25, 2006 at 9:30PM
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"If you wait until the "perfect" time to do it--it will never happen. "

Could not be more true!

Please don't take this the wrong way and I am just commenting on ME and MY Life, but my attention span is just not long enough to date anyone for 10 years. DH and I met, 2 wks later we were engaged and married within a month and today is my 22nd Wedding Anniversary. And neither DH or I were looking to get married, in fact it was not on my agenda at all, it just happened.

I think you need to sit down and decide what YOU want to do, do not consider others, this is just about YOU. Everyone needs to make major life changes and the hardest part is not deciding what you want to do, it is deciding that you need a change of direction.

I knew I needed a major change, went back to school got another degree and within a month of graduation all my belonging were in storage, car was packed and all bills were paid in Full and I headed for Florida. No job or friends in FL, but it was where I decided was best for me at that time. I had a fabulous job 2 days after arriving in Tampa.

    Bookmark   July 28, 2006 at 9:30AM
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This thread may be over but it has been so illuminating and thought provoking for me, as I'm usre it is for everyone who reads it. I have no great advice to give--I dated my dh for four years before we were married. But we were not living in the same city and had to decide affirmatively to sacrifice something --my job or his job--to end up in the same place at the same time. In the end, we decided to do that and we have been happilly married for eleven years. Its kind of the opposite situation from yours--you've essentially been "married" for ten years without having wht seem to you to be the true benefits of marriage which would be living in the same place and having children. After all, if you didn't want those things you wouldn't be suffering when you compare your life to that of your SIL and BIL.

You seem to really want something tangible--more tangible even than real estate and joint accounts. On the one hand it sounds like you've had all the benefits of marriage for years--you've travelled and had a signficant other and owned property and vacationed together. But have you ever really lived together? Have you started to do those things which are truly "married"--not planning for retirement but planning to live together and have kids? Now that I'm engaged in a renovation with my husband I can testify that renovations don't make a life happen-life is already happening and the renovation only disturbs that.

I live close to my parents, and I anticipate needing to care for them in the hopefully distant future but it seems odd to me that you have felt you *had* to live at home with your mother in order to care for her. And once you made that decision it seems wrong that that decision has prevented you from going ahead and marryign your SO. People live with their in laws--its not a bar to getting married. And grown women move out of their mothers houses to get married if it is. Essentialy you are saying that you don't feel you can be a married woman and live with your mother full time in her house--you could do it, but you don't want to. If so, you are going to need to fish or cut bait. Either move your SO in and start life as a married couple (whatever that means to you) or move out and start life as a married couple. There is never going to be a perfect situation in or out of your mother's house, its just going to be a compromise. Marriage/privacy/adulthood or marriage/lack of privacy/living space. You pay your money and you take your choice.


    Bookmark   July 31, 2006 at 11:05PM
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