Any Need for 2nd Thoughts on New Lennox System?

pesinvaFebruary 23, 2009

I am close to pulling the trigger on a new Lennox system:

 Furnace: Lennox Signature G60UHV-60C-090

 A/C: Lennox Signature XC21-048-230

 Coil: CX34-62C-6F

 Thermostat: Comfort Sense 7000

Total installed price being quoted is $7,495. This system, ARI Ref #1423562, at 13.00 EER/17.50 SEER qualifies for the $1,500 tax credit. In addition, if installed by 2/27, Lennox has a $1,000 rebate. Therefore, true cost of full installation when all is said and done would be $4,995. Since this is the only system that both fits my space and is eligible for the tax credit, is there any reason why I should be 2nd guessing myself? To me, even though my 15 year old system is still limping along, it seems like sort of a no-brainer.

Thanks!

P.S. I have another recent post concerning which humidifier I should go with on this system. Didn't want to ask too much in one post.

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tigerdunes

pesinva

what area of country do you live? Virginia?

what is your electric rate?

if you have reasonable electric rate and no installation/obstacle issues, I think an 80% eff furnace with today's high fossil fuel price is a dinosaur unless paired with a HP.

and regardless of your decision, install the HW VisionPro IAQ stat.

IMO

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 1:22PM
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pesinva

I am in N. Virginia and none of the installers (3 total) who actually came to my home recommended going to a more efficient unit. I prodded them and asked what their opinions were as my neighbor recently installed a 90%+ unit. They were unanimous in that the payoff was not there to do so. In addition, my family room is on a slap which would make installation a bit problematic, but not impossible. I was all for it, but they all independently made the case it wasn't worth it. The one HP option we looked at was the Carrier Infinity series. Prices quoted were significantly more expensive when factoring in the rebate and tax credit (which Carrier set-up couldn't qualify for). Given that, any hesitation with the system itself or the price?

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 2:17PM
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kcboom

I am shopping for new HVAC equipment as well from my research this is what I have discovered.

HP work year round so they "typically" don't have the same life span as a traditional a/c furnace set up. I live in probably the best area in the United States for a HP and I still wasn't convinced. Energy Cost annual avg $.074 per kWh and discounted 9 months a year with a HP. Average Temp 53.6ºF

Gas cost annual avg $8 per McF so it would take 15-20 years to see the ROI. (in my area) if I bought a 90%+ furnace. My gas bill is $30 probably 6 months a year.

If you add a humidifier you want and IAQ thermostat.

Research your installer just as important if not more important that researching your equipment.

Your systems sounds like a hell of a deal to me. Sure there are a few other things I am leaving out though.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 2:31PM
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ryanhughes

I wouldn't second guess yourself. Should be a fantastic system, efficient too, if installed and sized correctly. The VisionPRO IAQ is a good thermostat but the ComfortSense 7000 can also be set up to control humidity with blower speed and compressor staging along with other things.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 3:11PM
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ryanhughes

I missed the 80% furnace. I agree that for our area (MD/DC/VA), 90%+ would be more ideal to save on monthly costs in the long run. Who knows how gas prices will go.

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 3:18PM
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tigerdunes

pesinva

an 80% by itself is a dinosaur.

first choice would be to add the XP19 that qualifies for the stimulus tax credit. the upgrade would pay for itself in a few yrs.

second choice would be the G61v.

one or the other. you will not regret it.

see below Fuel Comparison calculator.

IMO

Here is a link that might be useful: Fuel Comparison Calculator

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 4:13PM
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pesinva

Tigerdunes,

I am a rookie here, so please go easy on me...if I follow through on your first choice, I don't see how the XP19 would get me to the tax credit (requires HSPF >= 8.5, EER >= 12.5, SEER >= 15, correct??) simply by swapping out the XC-21 for the XP-19. The resultant system would be ARI Ref#552842 with HSPF = 8.25, EER = 11.5, & SEER = 16.50 and fall short of the mark. Changing the coil doesn't seem to get me there either. Am I missing something?

Thanks for all your help so far!

    Bookmark   February 23, 2009 at 5:01PM
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Tom Pultz

Just spoke with my Lennox dealer. I was concerned about making a decision this week because of the rebates. He said not to worry as there are more and better rebates coming in March.

As an aside, the only Lennox HP I can find that qualifies for the fed tax credit in a 3-ton size is the XP14. The XP19 works with some furnaces, but they all appear to be high heat capacity models I don't need.

Right now I'm thinking of going with the G71MPP and the XC21. It may not be as cheap to run as a HP but I think it would provide a more comfortable environment compared to a single stage HP. Need to discuss with my dealer.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 6:20PM
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kcboom

If you don't mind sharing with me what was the cost difference from the G60UHV to the G71MPP

    Bookmark   February 24, 2009 at 8:55PM
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Tom Pultz

I looked at the G60UHV 1st, combined with a HP. Not sure I can compare quotes directly as they may include more or less in each one, but I think the G71MPP is about $1400 additional.

I think my local Lennox dealers are a rip-off compared to the quotes I'm seeing here. My quote is about $4800 for the G71 and another $5700 for the XC15 AC unit. The $4800 includes a Vision Pro thermostat and adding a new cold air return to the 1st floor.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 9:29AM
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ryanhughes

Seems like many dealers in your area are a rip-off Tom. :) Lennox dealers and Trane dealers, and even Carrier dealers, often have "product pride" and mark up their prices accordingly. I personally think no basic replacement should run over $8500, maybe a bit more for the top-end systems.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 3:03PM
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Tom Pultz

Ryan, tell me about it. When I brought up some of the price quotes I've seen here my Lennox dealer said, "Those are too good to be true, and you won't find that in our area." I said that's because you guys charge what you think the market will bear, not what the equipment and labor charges suggest. I also told him I would be very surprised if the actual cost of a G71MPP was more than $2,000, so why is it $5,000 installed. He couldn't answer.

I might just make him my own offer and see if they take it.

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 5:50PM
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ryanhughes

"I also told him I would be very surprised if the actual cost of a G71MPP was more than $2,000..." -- I doubt it is myself. Depends on the dealer/distributor relationship. Or I believe for Lennox parts are sold directly by Lennox? Not 100% sure.

"I might just make him my own offer and see if they take it." -- Almost like the way builders work, whoever accepts the offer gets the work. Problem with that is you don't know what corners they'll cut. But with those kind of prices I'd probably be negotiating myself.

Stick around for input on any other thoughts/bids/etc...

    Bookmark   February 25, 2009 at 6:59PM
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pesinva

A quick follow-up...I ended up going with my original set-up and the guys are here installing it now. Based on recommendations here, I inquired about the XP-19. I could have paired the XP-19 with a G60-110 (vs. G60-090) for $575 more (and just barely qualify for the tax credit). I ended up staying with my original set-up based on the recommendation of the installer and the fact that my wife always seems to be cold in the house. Figured that a straight gas furnace vs. HP would provide a more comfortable heat for her (G61 would have been up to $1,500+ more). While I may be sacrificing cost on the heating end, the EER/SEER of the system I am getting are higher so some offsetting benefit should be reaped on the cooling end which in DC area can be significant. Not any easy decision, but no looking back now. Another point of reference, I narrowed my bidders to two installers. The first gave the initial $7,495 bid. The other initially came in at $9,300. Second bidder eventually matched the $7,495 before first offered to throw in an AprileAire 600A for free to seal the deal. Felt more comfortable going with first installer as he didn't have to whack $1,800 off job and may have been inclined to cut corners. For $4,995 when rebates and tax credits are taken into account, I feel like I have gotten a fairly good bang for my buck. Agreed?

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 1:23PM
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ryanhughes

If you got the Lennox Signature setup for $4,995, you did a damn good job if you ask me. Hope it's installed correctly and performs to your expectations!

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 3:43PM
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noobs

pesinva,

I'm looking for a similar system. Can you post how the installation went and the dealer name.

Thanks!

    Bookmark   February 26, 2009 at 10:26PM
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pesinva

The installation seemed to go fine. Nice, friendly two-man crew who seemed to know their stuff. They arrived on time at 9:00 were finished and on their way by 4:00. Parrish in Manassas, VA did the job. Not that it was an issue for me, but the XC-21 is a big unit. They said it was big, but until it is in place, I didn't realize how big compared to my old unit.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 1:09PM
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ryanhughes

You're not the only one I've heard surprises from regarding size on the XC15/XC21/similar. Glad the installation went well. Did Parrish also present Carrier as an option (looks like they deal with Carrier on their website)?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2009 at 3:19PM
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matrixx611

just wondering on the status of your lennox xc21? How is th e reliability/ durability? Am also looking into getting a new hvac. Read about lennox class action against them.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 2:35AM
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