Quote comparison Bryant vs Carrier in NJ

trader889February 19, 2012

I received the following quotes for my 2500 sq foot, 2 floor house. I live in Morris county, NJ and am replacing a Lennox builder's furnace and a/c. Quotes look high, but they are from reputable dealers. What do you think?

Carrier two-stage gas fired furnace model 58MEC100-20

100,000 BTU/H. AFUE 92.5%.

New PVC flue to outside.

One (1) Carrier Infinity Control included.

One (1) Aprilaire Electronic air cleaner model #5000 is included.

A chimney liner will be installed as per code.

We will install owners humidifier on furnace.

All gas piping / electrical included.

Carrier Puron ozone-safe 2-stage high-efficiency condensing unit model 24APA748

Carrier evaporator coil CNPVP4824.

48,000 BTU/H or (4 tons) S.E.E.R. 16.5.

All wiring / refrigerant piping / condensate piping is included.

No Cooling Temperature Guarantee on second floor.

Existing equipment will be removed.

Price: $11,600

Bryant 4 Ton Super N Coil � Model Number � CNPVP06124

Bryant 4 Ton Condensing Unit � Model Number � 127BNA048 � 2 Stage � 17 SEER/13.1 EER

Bryant 100,000 BTU Furnace � Model Number � 353BAV060100 � 2 Stage � 92.5% Efficiency

- Evolution Control Module

� Honeywell Media Air Cleaner

Other-

� Install customers humidifier

� One (1) � 60 Amp disconnect

� One (1) � 4" Chimney liner

� Change condenser breaker

Total Price � $9,300.00

NOTE: These prices don't include any rebates, tax credits, etc..

Is it normal not to guarantee cooling temps on the 2nd floor? I understand during the summer, heat rises and the 2nd floor is furthest away from the furnace.

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veesubotee

Was a proper heat calc done?

I'm in S. Jersey with 23 year old 2500 SF home. Heat loss: around 59,000 BTU; heat gain under 3.5 tons. You probably need more heating and a little less cooling.

Re: 2nd floor: yes, heat does rise, but a well designed duct system (zoning helps)CAN eliminate (if you have) a heat problem.

Is your contractor addressing your duct system?

V

    Bookmark   February 19, 2012 at 9:51AM
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neohioheatpump

well, the 2nd quote isn't as bad as the first. Very nice equipment. Whats the chimney liner for? High efficiency condensing furnaces don't vent thru the chimney. They vent thru the the pvc outside a side wall.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2012 at 11:21AM
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mike_home

The Carrier quote is on the high side for the equipment quoted. You should be able to do better.

I am not sure the Carrier models you provided are a valid match. I tried the find the match on the AHRI directory but could not find it. Ask the contractor to provide the AHRI number.

The Bryant furnace model 353BAV060100 is a 60,000 BTU input. Are you sure the contractor said this is a 100K BTU unit?

It is difficult to achieve even tempatures on both floors on a 2500 square foot house without zoning. Do you currently have temperature variations? Has the contractor made any suggestions to resolve this.

Do you need an electronic air cleaner? A 4 inch media filter is less expensive and will serve you well. I would also get a quote on a 10 year labor warranty from Carrier or Bryant.

New Jersey offers the Cool Advantage rebate. A Manual J calculation must be submitted with the application. Ask the contractors if they will applying for this rebate.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2012 at 12:03PM
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tigerdunes

Trader

At the very least, I would want a two stg var speed furnace 95%+ efficient.

Nothing less and I suspect an 80 KBTU model would be more than satisfactory.

And for the previous poster Mike, that furnace is a 100 KBTU model with a 5 ton rated blower motor.

IMO

    Bookmark   February 19, 2012 at 12:47PM
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mike_home

Tiger,

You are correct on the Bryant furnace size being 100K BTU input. I assumed the model nomenclature was the same as Carrier's. I stand corrected.

Mike

    Bookmark   February 19, 2012 at 1:47PM
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trader889

Thanks for all the advice so far. BTW, the house is 28 years old and currently, the coldest (winter) and hottest (summer) rooms are the 2 bedrooms on the 2nd floor where my kids sleep. It so happens, these are also the furthest away from the furnace. Will adjusting the dampers help? The other bedrooms, including the master, are fine.

BTW, here is a 3rd quote, which will include a manual J.

Bryant condenser 127BNA048 2 stage 4 ton
furnace 353BAV060100 2 stage 92% eff.
coil CNPVP06124
thermostat
honey well filtration
4 inch chimney liner
high voltage
gas piping
chimney
low voltage high voltage
install homeowners humidifier

$ 9,200

option:
Evolution system
condenser 187BNA048
furnace 355cav060100 95% 3 stage, variable speed
coil CNPVP6124
thermostat evolution control
installed
$ 11,700

He is pretty close to my original post, option 2 above with his first quote. Is the Evolution system worth and extra $2500? I do plan on staying in this house for a while.

    Bookmark   February 19, 2012 at 6:28PM
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trader889

I forgot to add, would it make sense to put in some sort of zoning system, like the Arzel to better control the temps in the 2nd floor bedrooms?

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 1:22AM
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mike_home

I am surprised to see a $2500 differece between the Preferred and Evolution quotes. In my experinece the equivalent Carrier Performance and Infinity models are closer in price, but my information could be out of date.

The Evolution set up should qualify for an additional $500 rebate from Bryant. The rebates usually begin in March. The Evolution may also qualify for additional NJ and utility rebates. I would have expected the final rebate prices between these system would differ by $1000 - $1500.

I also don't understand how you can configure a two stage condenser with a furnace which is not variable speed. Make sure you are being quoted valid matches.

It makes sense to investigate the possiblity of zoning the second floor. I have read postive reviews about the Carrier Infinity zoning controllers. I assume Bryant has the equivalent product. Ideally you want to improve the comfort in the house after spending this amount of money.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 9:25AM
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tigerdunes

Forum members should know that NJ is one of the most expensive states to live in the US and one of the worst as far as purchasing HVAC. That is why quotes look out of line and they are compared to other geographic areas.

IMO

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 10:30AM
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mike_home

I agree pricing in NJ is higher than the national average. What doesn't make sense is the Evolution system is 27% higher than the Preferred. The labor costs should be about the same. The bulk of the difference is the equipment cost.

There are many HVAC dealers in northern NJ. Talk to additional Bryant or Carrier dealers to determine if the pricing is consistent.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 12:36PM
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PRO
CJ Mechanical of North jersey llc.

being in north jersey and a bryant dealer,The upgrade to an evolution system is $ 1100.00

I agree the mark up from 9200 to 11,700 is heavy.

    Bookmark   February 20, 2012 at 9:38PM
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