What to do about friend with untrained dog?

carolyn53562February 3, 2006

Let me start out by saying that I'm a dog lover and have always had at least one dog for a pet. However, I have a friend who has a female Goodle that is now 15 months old. She brings this dog everywhere, and I mean everywhere. If you invite her over to our house for dinner, she brings the dog without asking. Unfortunately the dog is not well trained and jumps on people and puts its paws up on the counters, tables, etc. and also is not fully house broken and regularly (I mean every time she gets excited) has "accidents" in the house-so she has had an "accident" in our house every time that she has been at our house. My friend is totally oblivious to the faults of this dog even though it has an "accident" on the real oriental carpet by her front door every time I go to her house so I assume that that happens every time someone else comes too. I have stopped inviting this friend to my house for dinner because I know that she'll bring the dog, but her son is a friend of my son so she and the dog still show up at our house regularly to pick up her son and the dog always comes into the house and has an accident. Before I let her and the dog in I'll always ask--are you sure it won't have an accident and she says that she is sure, but she is always wrong. Anyone else had a friend like this? How can I get this friend to understand that she should not take her dog into other people's houses (I'm not the only one who complains about this) until she is 200% sure that it wont have an accident? Anyone have any suggestions for training her dog? We are moving to our new house in two weeks and I don't want this dog to have accidents on my new area rugs and carpets. Thanks.

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As Dear Abby or Ann Landers (whichever) says, You cannot be taken advantage of without your permission.

Don't ask her about if she's "sure" the dog won't have an accident. Say, No the dog is not allowed in my house. Period. Mean it, and live it.

OK, she goes off in a huff for a while. If she is really a friend, she'll figure it out.

No tolerance rule in effect here. You are not responsible for training her dog, nor telling her how to do it. You are responsible for not allowing the dog into your house.

Helene, owner of three Goldens who would not presume to take my dog anywhere uninvitied

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 10:57AM
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I'm with Fairegold--you need to firmly tell her not to bring the dog into the house. It's your home, you make the rules. What if you were highly allergic? Would she still bring the dog in? Her behavior is rude, selfish, and unacceptable.

The only other suggestion I have is to get (maybe borrow) a large mean dog for the next time she comes over. Have that dog give her dog a "talking to" and her dog will never want to set foot in your house again!

Overall, this is so unfair to the dog. Dogs want to please their owners, and it's so sad when people don't train their dogs. Even more sad when those same people scold their dog for "misbehaving." Like some people say, there are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 11:29AM
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I agree with the sage advice you have gotten. If you want to soften the blow a bit, you can simply state that you are not allowing dogs, other than your own, into your new house. Of course, this will only work if you don't have mutual friends who are equally oblivious and also bring their dogs over to visit.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 11:41AM
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As much as I adore my dogs, I can't imagine taking them to someone's home uninvited. I would be horrified if one of them soiled someone's rug. That calls for a profuse apology and paying for the carpet cleaners.

'Tact' won't cut it with this woman. Tell her on the phone before she comes to get her son to leave the dog at home- you won't let it into your house. Period. If she brings it anyway, let her stand with the dog on your cold front porch and wait till her son comes out. That should show you mean business.

That mindless inconsideration is just ruuuuuude.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 12:10PM
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I LOVE dogs, but I would do as above, No we aren't allowing any other dogs in the house. If she is uninating a little everytime she gets excited/someone comes in, that sounds like "submissive urination". If she really cared about her dog, her friends and her belongings she would be dealing with it. There are ways she could work to correct this.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 12:47PM
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Thanks for all of the advice. You're all right--I need to suck it up and be firm with her. I have an 8 year old golden retriever and I've never brought him to anyone's house uninvited either and would be horrified if he had an accident in someone else's house. I expect I'll lose her as a friend over this, but I can't imagine that I'll be the only friend she'll lose. She has left the dog with several different relatives when she's gone on vacation, and they have all refused to take the dog a second time and she is so disappointed in them. In fact, she left both her son and the dog with her sister-in-law last summer while she was on vacation. The sister-in-law is a real dog lover too, but one day I went over to pick up the son and there was my friend's dog sitting in her crate in the middle of the sister-in-law's garage no less! The sister-in-law couldn't take it anymore. LOL! Thanks again.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 1:01PM
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My MILs dogs do the same thing. My DH used to keep them for her when she went on vacation before we were married. Luckily after we married we have my little dog in the house and because her dog attacks my dog, we have an excuse as to why we can't keep hers anymore. She's never asked again.

You could try telling her that when her dog has an accident, it causes your dog to mark the same area and since you can't live with your dog urinating in the house, your afraid you can't have hers inside your home anymore. It never hurts to tell a little fib in the interest of friendship.


    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 1:08PM
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I agree with the majority of the posts, but I'd like to know how good a friend she is. If she's a good friend, maybe a "sit down and talk" explanation about why you're not allowing her dog in your house, followed with a (small) gift certificate towards training lessons with a local dog trainer might be a viable option. If you value her friendship and/or think it will create unnecessary tension between your son and her son to flat-out tell her the dog is "not welcome" in your home, I would seriously consider giving her incentive. Let her know you value her friendship and how it makes you feel (fill-in-the-blank) to have to tell her the dog can't come in to your house, but when the dog has "accidents" *you* are put in an uncomfortable position by having to address the situation.
Maybe she is one of those people who just doesn't "get it" unless someone points it out to them.
If this is not the case and she's just an acquaintance who holds no real place in your heart, I would tell her point-blank that the dog is not welcome and here's why. And I wouldn't fib and say other dogs aren't allowed in your house unless it's true. That reminds me of parents whose children are misbehaving and they tell the child that "the lady/man/clerk/teacher is going to yell at you if you don't stop doing such-and-such". My answer/reaction to parents who say that is "No, I'm not going to discipline your child. That would be *your* job". Noone wants to be the bad guy, but making excuses when the truth needs to be told is not the answer.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 1:54PM
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I agree with mrsmarv. There is no need to fib. This person needs to know that her dog's behavior is problematic and the truth is totally in order. And this should be done *for the sake of the dog*. A dog who does not behave can cause all kinds of problems. People who love dogs know how important it is that the animal be trained so that the animal can live harmoniously with humans. It's always the misbehaving dogs that end up in shelters.

I will not get into the designer dog (Goodle) discussion at this time; that is a problem for another day!

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 2:19PM
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So that (Goodle) was not a missprint? Is this a Golden and a Poodle cross, I presume? What WILL they think of next?

I had a rather precocious 4yo boy come visit over Christmas. He told me that my pug was a cross between a 'pig' and a 'dog'- hence- a 'pug'. I asked how he knew and he said, "Look at her little piggy nose and her curly tail!" :o)

What in the world does a Goodle look like?

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 3:01PM
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Pecan: Here's what a goodle looks like.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 3:10PM
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There seems to be an epidemic of people doing inappropriate things when it comes to dogs. MANY people bring them to other people's houses without asking. My SIL does this and drives my DH (it is his sister) crazy. They know the dogs aren't allowed in the house (I'm allergic), but they bring them anyway. They end up tearing up the yard and going after our neighbor's dog. My sister has yet to come to our house because she knows her dogs (she has 3, 2 of whom go everywhere with her) are not welcome. "They'll stay in the garage". No thanks. I've seen the puddles of pee in my father's garage.

How about a dog on a table? I was walking through the train station in Boston today and someone had their small dog on a table in the food court. Unbelievable. Same thing happened at the small food market near me recently. The dog was on the counter. Would you put your barefoot kids on a counter after they walked on city street? No, of course not.

Then there was the person at CVS with the grossest sheepdog I have ever seen. At the pharmacy desk. People are coming up and ruffing up the dog's coat, scattering dander everywhere. Since when is it ok to bring a dog into a pharmacy? I was waiting for a prescription and needed to use it before I even paid for it. What is next, people bringing their dog to the hospital? DH saw someone at Home Depot with one. The dog did a big pile and the people just left it there. Some guy who wasn't looking rolled his cart into it and started screaming (can you blame him?. Do you really need to watch out for poo in stores now?).

Dogs on airplanes. I dread being seated next to someone who has their little Paris Hilton dog in a bag with them on the airplane. I can't sit next to a dog for 5 minutes, never mind 3 hours. And the flight attendant acts like I am the one with the issue when I ask to be moved.

You can't get away from them. It is far worse now then when I was younger. I started allergy shots because it is impossible to stay away from them. Companies and schools are banning peanuts because of people that have allergies, yet GOD FORBID you take offense to someone's dog.

I'm off my soapbox now. Thanks for listening. :)

p.s. None of this applies to seeing eye dogs (or other assistance dogs). It's a Karma thing.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 5:59PM
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My thoughts on "designer dogs"...call a spade a spade, or in this case, a mutt a mutt. What's the difference what "type" it is as long as you love it and care for it. Gheesh!...I'll step off my soapbox now.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 6:07PM
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Sue, where on earth do you live that dogs are allowed in stores? We haven't reached that point in CT yet.

But I did have a bad dog on airplane experience. We were on a puddle jumper once and a woman came on with her 2 year old boy and a dog-in-a-bag. The boy never stopped carrying on, and the dog never stopped barking and crying. Mid-flight, the dog escapes from the bag and starts tearing up and down the (very short) aisle. There was only a curtain separating us from the cockpit, and the dog jumped right into the cockpit. The plane started dipping and then pulled back up, and the co-pilot had to wrestle the dog out of the cockpit. Poor thing almost took the plane down. But it wasn't his fault, it was the batty owner, who insisted on keeping his bag unzipped "Just a little bit" so he could stick his head out.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 8:55PM
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I lived on Beacon Hill in Boston. But we see it everywhere in the Boston area. We are now in southern Maine (near Portsmouth) and it seems to be spreading that way as well. I have seen it in New York and Miami. It is coming to an area near you, believe me.

Oh, and no one uses a leash anymore. The dog feels "confined" (I had someone with a Doberman tell me this). "Take your dog to work day". Dog on beaches. Dogs off leashes in parks.

The newest nightmare: "Pet friendly" hotels. How does this work exactly? Do they remove all the carpeting, wallpaper, curtains and bedding before I check in? No. Do they warn me that dogs stayed in the room? No. I get sick and have no clue why. One time I stayed in a hotel (a chain, not a Mom and Pop place) and got very sick. When I said something to the front desk (I thought it might have been a scented carpet cleaner or something) they said a dog might have been in the room. I told them about my allergy and they said something like, "well we clean all the rooms, but you should have warned us about your allergy". I need to tell desk clerks in hotels about my dog allergy? Should I warn them that I am allergic to horses as well such in case Trigger stays there? know to tell them I can't stay in a room someone has smoked in, but DOGS in HOTELS? Come on.

    Bookmark   February 3, 2006 at 10:33PM
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Yes I do think you have to ask her in a very clear way to refrain from bringing her dog; honesty is key here in order for you to feel respected in your own home; if she can't take that, then she is really not your friend......

I adore my dog but she is not with me at all times; she's part of the household and is welcome to perch everywhere in the house but she's not part of our social life; she has no say in it although she acts like we are abandoning her everytime we leave. This has been going on for 11 years, when will she learn ?
I think people who bring their dogs everywhere are looking for a way to make themselves look interesting....

When I go to people's homes I interact with their dog, pay attention to it,play with it, I'm a dog lover but I don't want them to bring it to my house when they visit.
No one I know does that.
My brother in law asked me once if he could bring his border collie and leave it in the garage, at our xmas eve family party; I knew very well that eventually someone would bring him in the house so I said no.
( I used the excuse that our bichon was antisocial and that our garage was dirty , yes I lied; he got the message and never asked again)

sue, I can see your problem with hotels, never thought of that, yikes.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2006 at 6:22AM
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"What's the difference what "type" it is as long as you love it and care for it."

mrsmarv: I agree with you that a mutt is a mutt. But, the difference is that backyard breeders are now charging $1,000 for a "designer dog" which you so correctly pointed out is a mutt! While perfectly good dogs without the designer label are sitting in shelters across the country. It's so sad to me.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2006 at 3:01PM
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We've had a discussion of designer mutts over in the Cooking Converations forum. You might enjoy that.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2006 at 4:02PM
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Re: dogs in hotels, I might add my experience. DD attends a college in a rural area and we have to stay in motels along the highways to get there. Many dog owners travel by car with their dogs (since I guess they cannot fly with them) and they have to have a place to stay.

Since DS is allergic to dogs, I was quite upset by this, but the staff at the various motels have told me that certain floors are "non pet" to help people avoid the allergans (not to mention what other mess these animals create!

I never pictured them at a city hotel, however, and I certainly hope I don't encounter any!

    Bookmark   February 4, 2006 at 4:32PM
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When you move and she inquires about a visit, tell her in no uncertain terms that her dog must remain at her home since you don't want an accident in the new house. If she is show up with the dog anyway, don't let her in. Chat amicably with her on the porch, closing the front door firmly behind you, until her son is walking out of your house. If the dog jumps on you, gently take his paws off of you. If the dog is uncontrollable on the front porch, suggest to your friend that she wait in the car since the dog is so excited, and tell her that you will go inside and hurry her son out the front door. As you know, not all friendships are meant to last forever. How sad that this women is so insensitive to others. I feel sorry for her son.

    Bookmark   February 4, 2006 at 6:48PM
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Re: dogs in hotels. We like to take our dogs on car trips with us. One hotel we like is the Cypress Inn in Carmel, owned by Doris Day - big animal lover - which welcomes dogs but NOT children. Interesting!

The Regency in NYC has a special doggy room service menu.

Sue36, more and more hotels and motels allow pets because it's good for business, so you might indeed have to get used to warning them about your allergy.

If I had a friend who always brought her dog to my house, I would say with lots of regret in my voice, "Oh, I'm sooo sorry, he can't come in the house." That's it. No room for argument, no suggestions of alternatives.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2006 at 2:03AM
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Golden Doodles are extremely rambunctious, energetic dogs that require oodles and oodles and hours and hours of daily exercise and attention. I have a two friends who have them, one a 90 pound male and the other a somewhat smaller female. Sweet as can be but like having a large, untrained goat in the house. I would never dream of taking such a dog to anyone else's house! Really, in the end, it's not fair to the animal.

    Bookmark   February 5, 2006 at 6:55AM
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You will need to be firm. Do not be surprised if she shows up after your discussion with dog in tow. We currently have the same problem. Except our problem involves large dogs and injuries. A friend of ours takes his dog everywhere as well. It's a male pitbull. A sweet dog, but some pits have trouble with other dogs and relinquishing territory issues. We have a female GS who is getting up there in age. The first time we put them outside and separated them, but it was impossible to visit. His dog wanted to stake territory and ours was not keen on that idea. The second time I wasn't home and the men again put both dogs outside (separated by a fence) and ignored them. I guess they thought they would learn to get along. Well, my GS was injured - nothing serious, no blood or vet visit, and honestly for all I know she could have done it herself. But I was upset, because she's no spring chicken, so I asked that he not bring his dog anymore. He must have forgotten because he continues to bring the dog. We leave his dog outside and my girl stays inside. Which is not fair to her, but I am at a loss as what to say, according to the male mind the problem is solved. The moral to this story: Firmly say exaclty what you mean the first time and stick to it.

    Bookmark   February 6, 2006 at 12:34PM
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I can't believe anyone would try to accomodate a visitor who brings a dog without asking! I think the expression on my face when opening the door would give away the show. Raised eyebrows, eyes popping out, immediately moving to block the doorway... followed by "Oh, you brought a dog!" Which would immediately be followed by "We're gonna have to tie him to your car door or something until you're ready to go. If he has an accident in the driveway are you going to clean it up for me? No, sorry, I'm not comfortable with him running around in my backyard."

    Bookmark   February 6, 2006 at 1:16PM
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Honestly, some people are brain-dead when it comes to their pets.

A relative used to visit during holidays when I was younger- she and her poodle stayed in my room, and the dog would routinely lift its leg on the bedpost. Mom kept her mouth shut until I threatened not to come home for Christmas. We didn't see the dog again.

A neighbor has a bull terrier (not a pit bull, but a very aggressive and unfriendly dog) whom he walks on a choker chain, the dog is so dangerous. Of course, he thinks this dog is delightful, and is dismissive when it LUNGES at children or other dogs in their own yards. They have a small child, and I've had to tell them that DD2 cannot babysit because of the dog. They think I am overprotective! Tuff. We are dog-lovers extrordinaire, but this dog will make headlines, I guarantee!

    Bookmark   February 6, 2006 at 2:22PM
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Wow, this is my first time over in the conversations side of kitchens :). Carolyn, you've received some excellent advice. I can't believe that your friend is so oblivious when it comes to her dog's behaviour but it's not uncommon. Your new house will provide the perfect excuse. Sorry, no dogs but mine in the house. The urination when she becomes excited is a common thing with young females and the dog wouldn't be able to control it even if she was perfectly housebroken...which this dog is not. You don't need this in your new home.

I just wanted to weigh in on the dogs in hotels issue. I honestly never thought about people with pet allergies staying in the room after me so now I'm cringing. I travel with my dog as frequently as possible but not every hotel accepts pets and many only have a certain number of pet friendly rooms (usually the smoking rooms). My dog is kept crated. I clean up after her, keep her dishes in the bathroom (easier cleaning ) and have even scrubbed muddy pawprints up off of the hall carpet because I'm thankful to be able to find places that I can stay with my dog. The dog in question is a 75 lb rescued rottweiler and until she had her basic training down cold we didn't take her anywhere.

Bringing WELL TRAINED AND LEASHED dogs out is a good way to socialize them. Some places (like home depot) even allow dogs inside. Unfortunately as many of you have noted it's not only the well trained dogs (or owners) that are out & about. I used to work in a chi chi department store & women felt free to bring their dogs as fashion accessories in along with them while they shopped. I can't tell you how many times I had to clean up piles of poo (presumably from the dogs).

Unfortunately I am so used to being on top of my dog at all times that I'll reflexively correct friend's dogs if they jump or mouth, make them sit for treats, etc. It's a wonder that I have any friends at all :).

Good luck, Carolyn! And my apologies to all of the allergy sufferers out there.


    Bookmark   February 7, 2006 at 5:48PM
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Oh Sigh, me too! I used to train dogs, and although I haven't for many years, I still interact with dogs on a training type level. I am so used to having the corner of my eye always on the dog, observing everything they do, that I instinctively will praise or correct without realizing it. Fortunately, my friends appreciate it! They love how well behaved my dogs are and insist that I work with their dogs as well. I don't like to, its tough to explain to a friend that the dog is easy to train, it's usually the owners that are tough!

    Bookmark   February 8, 2006 at 9:12AM
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Think of it from the side of the friend with the dog. She seems unaware that she is causing a significant problem. She is able to overlook the dog's flaws because she loves the dog.

You think she should know better. Why? Have you ever told her? She assumes that you feel the same way she does and until you tell her she will continue to think that way despite what you may think are unsubtle hints that anyone should understand.

When I was first married my mother-in-law gave me a wonderful piece of advice. She said "For years I thought that Alex (her husband) should know how I feel and what I need without me having to tell him. Then it ocurred to me that he didn't know and I was just getting mad at him for not being a mind reader. When I started telling him right out what I needed him to know, it made life so much better. He wanted me to be happy and was glad to have a new way to please me."

Your friend is probably puzzled at why you are giving her the cold shoulder. Just tell her why. If you value her friendship tell her that too. Tell her clearly how you feel, not what she should do. Let her figure that out for herself.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2006 at 8:41AM
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Something happened to me yesterday, and I knew I had to tell you guys about it. Although our house in Maine is done, I am still in Boston during the week packing up. I left my apartment yesterday and was walking down the street when my Blackberry buzzed. I stop to read the email. A few minutes later a rotweiller ran up to me (no leash) and lifted its leg. I jumped out of the way and the dog peed on the building where I was standing. I would have been soaked if I hadn't moved. The owner (my next door nighbor) was about 75 feet away. The dog finished and walked to the owner, I was walking right behind in the same direction. The guy didn't say a word. No, "sorry about that, it's his favorite spot". Nothing.

The dog was off leash in a congested neighborhood and almost peed on someone and the guy never blinked. Unbelievable.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2006 at 4:54PM
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Something happened to me yesterday, and I knew I had to tell you guys about it. Although our house in Maine is done, I am still in Boston during the week packing up. I left my apartment yesterday and was walking down the street when my Blackberry buzzed. I stop to read the email. A few minutes later a rotweiller ran up to me (no leash) and lifted its leg. I jumped out of the way and the dog peed on the building where I was standing. I would have been soaked if I hadn't moved. The owner (my next door nighbor) was about 75 feet away. The dog finished and walked to the owner, I was walking right behind in the same direction. The guy didn't say a word. No, "sorry about that, it's his favorite spot". Nothing.

The dog was off leash in a congested neighborhood and almost peed on someone and the guy never blinked. Unbelievable.

    Bookmark   February 9, 2006 at 4:55PM
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Wow, Sue. Unbelievable.

I'd be careful around that dog. That's a clear sign of dominance issues.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 9:32AM
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We go to a dog park every day. Sometimes there are up to 40 or so dogs there, a lot of them pit bull mixes. Seems like most of them are lab or pit bull mixes. Anyway, I'm not wanting to start a pit bull discussion and I know all the stuff about how other breeds are mistakenly identified as pit bulls and it's all about the responsible owner, etc. etc. But several of the ones at our dog park are known for doing exactly what sue36 described: Running up to a person, or a person sitting down, and peeing on them. It happened to my daughter and I've seen it happen to others.

Another thing they do, which bothers me even more, is that they'll run up to you at full speed and slam into you, right at knee height. I call them the "slammers" and I'll do anything to avoid them. Several women have been knocked over, and I've been bruised.

These dogs are not aggressive in the usual ways you think of, but you sure have to watch out for them. I think the owners are defensive about the breed and don't want to acknowledge that anything is wrong, so they don't say or do anything at all.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 1:40PM
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For the dog experts out there, what does the "slamming" mean? I know several people with dogs like that and I always took (or mistook?) it to be a sign of affection. My SIL's female German Shepherd does it (she actually aims right for the knees so you end up spreading your legs and she charges through. Very odd dog.).

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 2:10PM
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Slamming into you is a dominance thing. Dogs that are too pushy in seeking out contact or "affection" are displaying dominance issues. Or so my last dog trainer told me. We had a dog who was really sweet but had underlying dominance issues, and the trainer taught me to make her earn any contact I had with her, even if it's just making her sit first. And when she was being overly pushy about seeking out "affection," I simply ignored her and gently pushed her away.

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 2:34PM
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Ok, that makes sense. My SIL's dog also is a huge pest. If you are sitting at the table she comes up to you and forces her head between your body and your arm in order to force you to pet her.

So does she basically think she is the "boss" (meaning "brat"), rather than it being an aggression (meaning "biting") issue?

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 3:02PM
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sue: Oh we call that "shovel-nosing". I love when my dog does it (rarely). But, my cat is a serious shovel-noser - way more than my dog. The cat even shovel-noses the dog. I would doubt that has anything to do with aggression. I always thought it was a show of affection!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 3:29PM
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Im another dog lover/owner. Other people have brought their pets into our house without problem. Were OK with that. But before a new dog crosses the threshold, I point-blank ask if the dog is house-broken, treated for fleas, and friendly to dogs and cats. Violators will be banned! I cant imagine any of our friends being anything other than completely horrified by their pet having an accident in someone elses house. Our dog is so hyper (at nine!) that we rarely take her to other peoples houses.

One thing you might do to soften the blow is to say that the dog cant come inside for a few months or a year to give the dog a chance to grow out of the piddling. Some dogs never do. And if you lose a "friend" because she sees nothing wrong with her dog urinating in your house, Id question whether or not she was ever your friend to begin with.

Regarding the general discussion of pets in public places: in Georgia, its a health violation to bring any animal other than a seeing-eye dog or other assistance animal into a business that sells or serves food. I had to bounce a number of dogs out of a grocery store where I worked in high school, one of which was taking a ride on my registers conveyor belt. The owner said that the dog liked riding on the belt. She and the pooch were read the health ordinance and evicted without buying groceries. Then I had to clean the belt. Bleach! When I worked at a Costco/Sams type place (Pace, anyone?), I had to stop a little boy from bringing in his new puppy, and he was getting quite upset about it. In a moment of serious bad karma, someone walked in with a seeing-eye dog. Not pretty!

    Bookmark   February 10, 2006 at 4:13PM
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sue36- that sort of behaviour ("shovel nosing"...cute!!!) should be discouraged. The dog shouldn't tell you when it expects you to pet it and by doing so you're rewarding that sort of demanding behaviour. I don't think that it's an agression thing but it's definitely a dominance/demanding thing. It depends on the dog as to whether it's going to lead to problems.

That said, our incredibly submissive rottie does this & I don't mind it. I do make her sit and I'll stop if she hooks a paw around my leg to bring me closer but she does lean right into you & mush herself as close as possible, putting her head underneath your hand, etc. I'm probably wrong in doing so but I allow her to do this with me, my better half, some select friends, etc. She was such an untrained mess when we got her and SO afraid of any strange person to enter the house that I always praised her when she'd let herself be petted (always on the neck) or take the initiative to go up & sniff at an offered hand.

sigh...our last rottie would actually place her rump under a dangling hand & rub herself on it to encourage the owner of the hand to give her butt scratches (this is on the dog's back, right next to the tail, a spot especially loved by rotties). Horribly ill mannered but I didn't know nearly as much about training & behaviour as I do now. And I miss it terribly. She was a WONDERFUL dog and she just loved contact with people.

I don't take my Amber to dog parks. The only time that she's unleashed around "strange" dogs was during agility class when she's working the course. Dog parks bother me because I may know my dog and any "issues' that she might have pretty well but I don't know yours. And as submissive as Amber is there's always the risk that if she (or any dog) feels threatened by another dog she could snap.

Back to Carolyn's original post, sharon sd was very succinct in her observations. Tell your friend why you don't want the dog in the house. I guess that I had just assumed that the friend already knew that the dog's urinating indoors was a problem. As previous posters have mentioned I would have been MORTIFIED if it was my dog urinating in someone's home & never brought them back again...after first having scrubbed the carpets for them.
Unfortunately Carolyn's friend doesn't seem to realize that the dog's behaviour is a problem.

Berlin- Thankfully my friends don't seem to mind my inadvertant work with their dogs but it's so funny as we have a dear friend with a very dignified and well behaved but never formally trained pit bull mix. Oh she knows her basic commands but she can't really see the need to do them (he's a veteranarian & she comes to work with him each day and as a result is so horribly spoiled but for all that a lovely dog). Oh the put upon expression on her face when I tell her to sit for a treat! She knows that she's not getting it until her butt's on the ground but it's as if she keeps on hoping that I'm going to change my mind & give it to her anyway. "You can't possibly mean for me to sit...on the floor...like a DOG...can you?"

Too much.


    Bookmark   February 13, 2006 at 1:53PM
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Wow, what a lot of posts! I haven't read them all yet, but every one I've read so far seems to agree that I need to be firm about this. My friend's dog is past the leaking when I'm excited stage and the last time I was at her house the dog actually squatted and went to the bathroom on the rug by the front door even though my friend said that dog had just been outside. Sigh, since the dog had just been outside, is the squatting a dominance/control issue? I don't think that my friend sends a clear message to the dog that this is wrong either--I'm sure that I do it wrong, but if my dog did that I'd yell "NO" and then put him outside right away--my friend just looked at the dog and said "I think she's going to the bathroom?" and then when the dog stopped she just cleaned it up without correcting the dog at all. Also, the friend's dog does a lot of what I call mouthing--kind of chewing on your hand--is that a dominance issue since it has all of its adult teeth and should be past the teething chewing? I need to go back and read all of the posts--thanks everyone for your advice!

    Bookmark   February 15, 2006 at 2:04PM
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It's not a dominance issue... the dog simply is not housebroken. Period. Just because the dog was outside does not mean that the dog did anything out there. Obviously, the dog's brain has no connection between "outdoors" and peeing or pooping.

As for the mouthing, it may or may not be a problem. Some breeds, like my Goldens, do it more often, but they have 'soft' mouths, and have do not 'chew'. More like, taking your hand and leading you around. Cute, but not necessarily a good trick with anyone but family. In other breeds even this would be absolutely completely forbidden. No 'chewing', thank you very much, and not even mouthing by a Rottie or a bull terrier or a German Shepherd Dog. And not with anyone outside the immediate family.

It may or may not be a dominance thing, but it is definately a bad habit.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2006 at 2:43PM
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I agree 100% with Fairegold. This dog is not housebroken, and the chewing thing is just bad training (but could lead to dominance issues if left unresolved). I confess that my Pug had a hand-chewing problem for too long. It was mostly due to the fact that we have lots of kids around, and they encouraged it (despite my begging them not to). I later found out that the two teenage girls who walk my dog when I'm not home were the worst culprits. They would tease her with their hands, so she thought it was all fun and games. She never bit and no one ever complained, but it bothered me. So I tought her the command "Kisses," so when she would start to mouth I would say "No!" sharply and then the "Kisses" command and she would switch to kissing. It worked pretty well.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2006 at 3:30PM
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Squatting and a full peeing is definately not submissive urination just plain "NOT HOUSEBROKEN" and with the owner saying "I think she's peeing" and does nothing else, it doesn't sound like the dog will get housebroken.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2006 at 3:59PM
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Fairegold & the other posters said it all. That dog is NOT housebroken.

Mouthing, at least with Rotties, is something that puppies do when playing and should be discouraged while the dog is still a puppy. Unfortunately what's "cute" when a dog is a puppy stops being cute once the dog grows up and is now a nuisance. Not the dog's fault, they just don't know any different. When we got Amber she was a classic example of a cute puppy that grew up to be a big, untrained dog and so dumped at a shelter. She was about 2 years old and she was a jumper, nuisance barker and a mouther. Just what you'd look for in an adult rottweiler, right?

Anyway, three years later we still have to be vigilant with her about the mouthing but she rarely does it anymore. If you're amenable you can try these methods with your friend's dog, for all of the good it will do, but maybe the dog will learn not to mouth _you_ at least.

Most basic- if the dog mouths you say "ouch" in a high pitched voice and pull your hand away. Do this every time the dog mouths you but do not make a game out of it. Continue petting the dog only when they do not attempt to mouth you. This did NOT work with Amber.

This is what DID work with Amber- if the dog attempts to mouth you say "no teeth" in a very firm, strong voice and pull your hand away. Do this each and every time the dog attempts to mouth you without fail, all fun stops when they try to put their teeth on you. One of the trainers on the rottweiler forum says that mouthing is a bite that hasn't happened yet and it's a pretty good message to take to heart especially with an unknown or untrained dog.

I'm not a trainer, not even close. I've just spent far too much time in obedience classes with a perfectly good dog trying to undo things that should have been addressed when she was a puppy.

Fairegold, I didn't know that about Goldens having "soft" mouths. Rotties are herding dogs & Smidgen would try to "herd" you if you'd let her by gently shouldering you whle you were walking (nice try, dog, now cut it out). Goldens are lovely dogs, just wonderful.

Carolyn, I'm NOT suggesting that you should attempt to train your friend's dog. But maybe the method above will help to get the dog to stop mouthing YOU. Your friend needs to take steps with their own dog.

Good luck. And keep that untrained dog out of your house & off of your new floors!


    Bookmark   February 15, 2006 at 5:39PM
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A good soft mouth will mean that a dog can do its job---retrieve game---so that the bird arrives in good enough shape to be eaten. No chewing, no slobbering. Just a nice clean bird. It can be taught, to a certain degree, but it really is a breed trait in retrievers, and maybe other gun dogs, but am not sure of those.

It comes in very handy when you are throwing the tennis ball a dozen times, and you don't have to worry about all that slobber. Of course, the puppy DOES like to drop her ball intot he water dish. Sigh.

    Bookmark   February 15, 2006 at 5:58PM
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This is all very interesting to me. I recently lost my 12 year old Rottweiler and last month lost my 13 year old. I went to the city pound a got a "2 year old Rottweiler". I'm so used to well behaved dogs, I'd forgotten how bad it is. This dog is biting my hands and feet. I constantly say "no bite", I did the fake cry, but he knows nothing, no words. I thought surely this dog can't be 2 years old, it acts like a 6 month old puppy. I guess if it was never taught anything though. I know, lots of training, lots of patience. He's actually very good most of the time. He has these wild bursts and I know I need to take him out and burn off some energy.

My 12 year old Rottweiler did have a soft mouth. She would frequently catch birds. She would "drop it" and it would fly off. I saw this about 4 times and they all lived.

I wouldn't hesitate to tell a friend "you're not bringing that dog in my house". If they're not that good a friend you can't say that, then there's no great loss there either other than too bad about your son's friend.

    Bookmark   February 24, 2006 at 4:20PM
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kim okla- I sent you an email privately :-). I'm very sorry about your dogs. Be dilligent with the firm voice and "no bite". It's going to take a long time, just make sure you're consistent. Between that and the jumping I thought I was going to lose my mind.

Fairegold- I'm slapping my forehead. Duh. Golden RETRIEVERS! Of course a soft mouth is something that would be desireable in a retriever and a breed trait for same. So maybe this Golden/Poodle cross' mouthing is the result of a breed trait. Carolyn, does it hurt when the dog mouths you? Regardless I wouldn't tolerate it.

Neither Smidgen nor Amber had "soft" mouths though we have taught Amber to be "gentle" when taking treats but that's a whole different thing. And you don't want to know how gross a tennis ball gets after a good game of fetch with a rottie.

Just curious, do Goldens like water as much as Labs and Chessies seem to?


    Bookmark   February 27, 2006 at 10:44AM
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My dogs love water. EVery so often I hear of a Golden who is a little water-shy, but mine will try to swim laps in a mud puddle.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2006 at 1:22PM
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