Problem with Ontario (Canada) Lottery payout

joyfulguyNovember 18, 2006

It seems that evaluation of the Ontario Lottery and Gaming Corporation's system has led to the concludion that far too many of the purveyors are turning up winners.

It seems that, when they brought their tickets in for checking, the machine said that the holder was a winner, but the amount was in small print, down in the corner.

It is said that a number of store employees were telling the holders of the tickets, who hadn't signed them, that they'd won a free ticket, give the holder a ticket ...

... then turn in the ticket for the substantial amount of the win as their own.

One man who claimed he'd won $200,000 was refused by the lottery corporation, and they fought in court for several years. Finally he won in court.

After having spent over $400,000. in legal fees.

Now, after this matter was brought to the fore by our national broadcaster, the Lottery Corporation are quite distressed, and saying that they are taking immediate steps to make the system more secure - the holders of tickets can have them scanned themselves in a machine at the outlet.

Governments having become addicted to their cut of the take by the Lottery Corporation, an agency not at arm's length from the government.

Who said that governments can't become addicts?

A simple way to avoid such problems?

Don't buy tickets in the first place!!

If one can justify them as "entertainment", maybe they make some sense ...

... but if one should happen to call them an "investment" - forget that!

Around here, many say that lotteries are "A voluntary tax on the stupid".

And - it ain't just governments that become addicted to them!!!

Have yourself a lovely weekend, everyone.

ole joyful

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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Wow, OJ, I thought you had won and were having a problem collecting...in which case, I was thrilled for you.

Seems there are scammers everywhere, and one has to be both smart and careful.

Sue

    Bookmark   November 18, 2006 at 11:43AM
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joyfulguy

Chemical girl (mot "Material" girl, I assume),

Sorry - I'm not a winner.

I couldn't be - I don't buy tickets.

Did you read the replies over on Kitchen Table the other day when someone asked what we'd do if we came into a lot of money?

(Quite a few became quite charitable).

I remember a song made rather famous by "The Bare-Naked Ladies" singing group a few years ago, "If I had a Million Dollars", saying that they'd buy me a house ... a K car ... a green dress (but not fur - that's cruel), etc.

I thought that about a million of us should write them, asking whether, if they had $100,000, if they'd buy us 1/10th of a house.

Now, of course, that they (probably) *have* a million dollars (or close to it) ...

... maybe they've developed short memories?

Have an interesting week.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   November 20, 2006 at 5:34PM
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joyfulguy

More problems afoot.

It appears that this evaluation of the Ontario Lottery system has turned up information that far more of the sellers of scratch-and-win tickets are winning than would normally be expected.

It seems that some have found a way to select winners without scratching, or an amount so minimal that it's scarcely noticeable.

Plus at least one, who's interested in math, found a way to use the serial numbers to evaluate winners. I beleive that the report said that he was good enough to alert the Lottery Corporation of the problem.

Dad used to say that wherever you might find a stash of honey - you'd find bees. Some of them rascally ones?

ole joyful

    Bookmark   November 22, 2006 at 3:26PM
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joyfulguy

The latest is that the Lottery Corporation is considering refusing to allow purveyors or employees (some 14,000, I think they said) from buying the tickets - which they claimed that no other province or state does).

They said that the problem with that possible apparent solution is, as I'd thought when I first heard the idea suggested, that the worker selling the tickets has dozens of brothers, sisters, parent, aunts, uncles, cousins, friends, etc.

Don't you just shed a tear for our poor, addicted government, having to deal with such problems?

Will have to send them to an addict-recovery program, I guess.

Have yourself a great holiday (if you're a U.S. resident).

ole joyful

    Bookmark   November 23, 2006 at 12:51PM
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greg_h

The government isn't addicted to gambling. They aren't gambling. They are assured of making a profit. No risk.

If they were to get rid of the lottery, then they would have to tax the people in some other way in order to make up for their loss of income. Personally, I'd prefer they keep the lottery around as a 'voluntary tax' where I can choose to contribute or not.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2006 at 1:37PM
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sharon_sd

The problem with that kind of voluntary tax is that it taxes poor people far more highly than wealthy ones. People who have a lot of money to spare may spend a bit of extra money on the entertainment of a lottery or other gambling. But it is poor people who are so desperate that they will spend money they need to use elsewhere on the extremely low odds that they will win big. People take more risks when they are desperate, even stupid risks.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2006 at 7:14AM
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joyfulguy

Lotteries (bingo, etc.) ...

... a voluntary tax on the stupid.

The governments are addicted - not to the gambling, but to the easy revenuwe that it brings in.

To the politicians - painless.

To the (largely poor folk) who participate - a con job.

As a personal financial advisor - I wanted to see my clients (and everyone, as a matter of fact) prosper.

And that includes folk who scarcely have a pot to dribble into, in many impoverished parts of the world.

But - we load the economic dice against them.

The rich get richer - and the poor get screwed.

Have a lovely weekend - and a great week ahead.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   November 25, 2006 at 4:47PM
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joyfulguy

Another problem, now.

The Atlanic Lottery have been accused in a national TV program of having problems, as well ... (by our national TV broadcaster - who was the agency that brought the Ontario Lottery issues to light).

It seems that the selling agencies' people are having about 10 times the proportion of payouts that one would expect, in the normal course.

At first, the leaders said that they were satisfied with the situation.

But now they're carrying on an investigation.

By the way - did some of your see my offer made here a while ago?

If you want to give me a dollar ...

... I'll give you 35 c3nts.

Which is about the payout on Nevada tickets, the slots in the casinos, etc. (except the ones in high-traffic areas), and some lottery tickets, though with some it's a higher percentage, I hear.

Strange - haven't had any takers. I wonder why?

Have a lovely spring weekend, everyone.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   March 22, 2007 at 1:44PM
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joyfulguy

The Ontario Lottery Corporation and their boss have just parted company - by mutual agreement.

o j

    Bookmark   March 24, 2007 at 4:24AM
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joyfulguy

Provincial Ombudsman report Monday castigated them for long-term improper actions.

For a number of years it appears to have been evident that there were too many claims made by their purveyors ... but not enough remedial action was taken.

When one buyer's ticket was claimed by a seller, the guy sued and the OLGC fought him in court for years, finally lost.

Seems to have been millions improperly paid out.

"See no evil" seems to have been at least part of their guidelines.

The report says that they need an outside agency evaluating them.

As Dad used to say, "When you have a pot of honey - you attract a lot of bees".

Bears, too, it seems.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   March 27, 2007 at 6:31AM
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joyfulguy

Sued for 1.1 *billion* ... by a guy who's been buying tickets for years ... ever since they began in '75, it seems.

Start of a class-action lawsuit.

One lawyer says that everyone who ever bought a ticket should get a free one!

Second highest paid of out Provincial Police personnel has been in charge of security, so some are saying that another investigator should be brought in.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   March 29, 2007 at 3:04PM
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joyfulguy

There was an old man, Bob Edmonds, who claimed that he'd been done out of his rightful prize win, and fought the Lottery Corporation in court for three or four years, though it now appears that they'd been aware of a number of unusual claims by a number of their purveyors for some time.

His story was told some time ago by an investigative program on our National Broadcaster's TV system.

In the original settlement of his $250,000., he was to keep quiet.

He fought for a longer time to be allowed to talk about the issue, and to have his lawyer's and court costs of $72,000. covered by the OLGC.

Eventually he won.

The OLGC agreed just before the weekend to cover his lawyer's and court fees, and to apologize.

He knew about that, and the message arrived at the beginning of the week.

His lawyer says that he knew that it was coming, but had not seen the letter ... when, after fighting cancer for several years, he died on the weekend.

One wonders - did all of the hassle about the Lottery Corporation cause a greater deterioration in his health?

Or - did he stubbornly keep going longer, refusing to be bulldozed??

We'll never know - but we do owe the old guy a vote of thanks for having pursued the issue, and to the national broadcaster, as well.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   April 3, 2007 at 7:17AM
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