The "Women w/Shorter Hair" thread has reached the limit. More thoughts about Natal's link?
Here is a link that might be useful: She's a Natural
I think that Hillary looks great!
I think that is wonderful! I kind of think if Hillary were a part of our forum, she would fit in so perfectly and we'd all have a blast.
Great smile, great glasses, great attitude! As I remarked earlier, I'd love to hear more about her thoughts on this "stage" of her life. She's clearly decided what her priorities are, and is living by her own lights.
I wonder if it's true that she will no longer pursue a role in government after her time as Secretary of State is finished. She has so much to offer, but I understand if she just wants to retreat from public life and take a break!
In those pics, I think she looks fresh (I love her freckles) and natural. I still think she would look better with short hair!
I loved her comment about how she's happy she's reached the stage in life where "if I want to wear my glasses, I wear my glasses. If I want to pull my hair back, I'll pull it back".
I have thought about it and I see that her hair, etc don't matter at all. She's so intelligent and articulate, and a great secretary of state. She says she won't, but I hope she does run for president in 2016.
I think she is terrific and like Nancybee, I am hoping she runs in 2016!
She looks fine. Her skin is unblemished and has a nice tone. I even like her freckles. She's pretty wrinkled but makeup doesn't hide wrinkles unfortunately. Oh, I just had a thought - what about Janet Reno? I don't remember anyone ever giving her crap for going natural.
As long as she or anyone is clean and well groomed (I suppose both can be subjective) then what does it matter?
When I was a kid, I remember my Mom having a fit about a lady in my Dad's office who went to work with no makeup. The horror! My Mom always wore makeup if she so much as went out to check the mail. When I was younger I wore makeup all the time and probably too much on occasion. Now I pretty much only wear makeup if I'm going to a nice restaurant or out for the evening. I think I look better with a little makeup - it evens out my skin and makes my eyes look prettier. But really, in the end, who cares? Who am I trying to impress with my "flawless" skin? DH is the only person I need to impress with my looks and he prefers natural anyway.
I love that she doesn't succumb to media pressure. I'm tired of women always being analyzed for what they look like or wear. No one ever writes about any male celebrities or politicians who have too much gray hair, a bad hair cut or an ill fitting suit.
There's some crap going around about how bad Michelle Obama dresses and how big her butt is. Really? We've got more important things to worry about in this country.
I suppose they can't win regardless. I wonder if Jacki O got negative remarks? I think she was quite stylish, although I don't think of her as overly made-up.
It would be interesting to hear what Hillary does want to do in the future. I can understand if she is ready to retire, but I doubt that she does not involve herself in something.
Off topic - but I love the series the National News does with Chelsey Clinton reporting. I can't think of the name, but its something about making a difference in a life.
I was initially going to post "here we go again", but these comments are a refreshing change. ;)
Tina, Chelsea Clinton is a reporter? I think she's so adorable, and of course, the apple didn't fall far from the tree...she's brilliant!
As far as Hillary's future ambitions, her "devil may care" attitude makes me wonder if she hasn't just finally had it with the whole political "machine" and having to play the game.
I agree, she'd make an excellent president! I voted for her in the primary. Wish she'd been the Dem candidate & was the leader of the free world NOW.
But on a personal level, I want her to be happy! She's had an amazing professional life, and has worked really hard. While she still has a lot to give, could she just be ready to have fun and relax? I get a sense that she feels she's paid her dues.
I think her hair looks ok! But, some eye makeup - not much- would elevate the whole look considerably, imo.
Overall, this whole idea of "au naturale" is ridiculous to me.
Ok, so....stop whitening the teeth? No serious skin care regime? No sunscreen? No haircolor or highlights ( I think she has some)
How about nice looking eyeglasses? Or flattering clothes?
Is it ok to be thin and fit? Or is that vain too?
At what point do you draw the line?
Everyone's line is different, and I'm not even sure where my line is drawn!
If I had tons of money, at what point would I stop with cosmetic surgery? Would I have it at all? If so, why?
It is idealistic to think our opinions of people are not formed by how they look. This thread is a case in point.
Ad addendum: I know we are all very capable of forming opinions about people outside of their looks, but time and again, studies do show that looks add power.
I spoke too soon.
I know what you think on this topic, Natal, of course, but I do not agree with you at all.
I know. The way women look is more important to you than some of their rights as women.
I'm with Natal on this one and I disagree that its idealistic to think that looks should come secondary. I also think it says a lot about a person who is willing to judge another based on the way their dressed or how much botox they use. IMHO, that's a load of crap that looks add power. Clinton, who is currently one of the most powerful women in the world has just proven that.
Being a fat ugly woman (not specifically referring to Hillary here) is a disadvantage where power is concerned. But it doesn't have to be that way. Perceptions change with time and maybe Hillary's attitude will be one of the first turns of the helm.
A woman of Hillary Clinton's ability and accomplishments should not be judged by her looks or 'fashion sense'. That's simply demeaning to a person of her caliber.
Judging an actress or TV personality whose career is based in part on her appearance is a whole different matter. There, it seems entirely appropriate.
A less prominent politician who is trying to make a name for herself or still building her public image (think Sarah Palin 4 years ago, Ann Romney, or Michelle Bachman) is somewhere in between. The way they present themselves is part of their 'who I am and what I'm about' statement, so fair game, within reason.
Thank you, Kelly!
I'm only pragmatic, not saying it should be that way, but it is.
And if it is, I say use it to your advantage.
From a visual standpoint only, I thought Madeleine Albright much more put together.
Commenting on someone's looks has nothing to do with evaluating their (1) work, (2) personal beliefs or (3) well, anything else. It's just a comment on their looks. The OP (and others) commented, thereby inviting the discourse.
I think Hillary doesn't take good care of herself. She is overweight and does NOT need to be. The clothing she wears and her hair are not flattering. Lack of makeup and wearing glasses are not the problem.
I've met Madeleine Albright and heard her and Hillary Clinton speak (separate occasions). Ms Albright has a stronger presence and was much more put together.
I don't care how she looks..but the fact that she is still associated with a womanizer and a cheater such as Bill Clinton makes her less than responsible in the decision making process. Anyone that can stomach such a disgusting man has got to have judgement flaws .
To add to this...MLK and John Kennedy...all womanizers and users of power and denigrators of females . Their wives were never enough. They both succumbed to the "powers of office" carp that continues to be used as an excuse for ALL men in office...if they "act up" . I have absolutely NO respect for ANY person in office who cheats...be it on a spouse or their income tax. Sorry...you are OUT . Hillary has NO self respect...none. She has stayed with a man that has demeaned her in a way that is not forgivable. Never.
I don't understand that either, why she has stayed with him.
I thought once he left office they might get divorced and was somewhat surprised they didn't.
Wow, this gets more and more revealing. Which one of you had the other thread pulled?
Ditto what Trailrunner said.
Nat,,,I would NEVER have a thread pulled. Never...what I say is what I mean. I never posted to the other thread. If I had it would have been word for word the same. I hate liars and cheaters...makes no difference from what walk of life they arise. c
I s'pose I'll get reamed here for this, but it's only MY opinion!
I think she looks like H*LL. Various pics of her the last few months just make me cringe.
I respect her work, position, and efforts.
I'm ONLY talking about her appearance.
I've never been a fan of either Clinton...especially the Male one. Makes my skin crawl...
Lol Faren, I'm with you as to her appearance. Some older women can pull off long hair but it doesn't flatter her. She certainly has it colored and highlighted so she does care, perhaps she thinks it looks good.
I still think the glasses are fab, the pantsuit is chic and the hair is growing on me, lol! I really loved the bob she sported when Bill just went into office. Beautiful! The short, layered cuts were pretty too. Hillary IS a pretty lady, in addition to being intelligent and gifted to the point of genius.
As far as the marriage...I heard Hillary speak about why she stayed with Bill a few years after the ummm, incident, and it made perfect sense to me.
She said that no one else could make her laugh the way Bill did! She also spoke of how she valued and treasured their shared history, family, and convictions. In essence, they built a life together and that life transcended his discretion. I think she really loves him, and I believe he does love her.
Life takes twists and turns and can get very messy indeed. Bill had a "problem"...but they're working it out. I admire that.
His "indiscretion" that is! Need my second cup of coffee!
Hopefully Bill is using better discretion these days, & has grown in wisdom and character. In any marriage a lot of taking for granted can sneak in & allow troubling behaviors to unfold. He took Hillary for granted in the past, but I think he cherishes her NOW, and is grateful for a second chance.
I do agree that Hillary has done alot of good. She's been a wonderful mother and I respect that and how she speaks of Chelsey. Her love for her daughter certainly shows.
However, I'll admit that I've thought somewhat as Trailrunner has of her personal life. I can only assume that they do truly love each other and have decided to move on from mistakes made. They've been together a long time and perhaps they did not want to throw that away. I hope that like Stinky says he cherishes her now.
As far as Bill Clinton, there are certain things I would applaud him for. However, I have little respect for the man also. I also have a hard time with the cheating and lying. But we've disgressed from the original topic. Just my 2 cents worth!
I have a friend who went through similar things with her husband, and ultimately Stinky, what you wrote about Hilary why she stayed is why my friend stayed. Who knows, maybe I would do the same thing. I wonder, and hope that I never have to make a decision like that!
Some on topic and some off topic...
Its possible Hillary has stayed marriage because 1) she has also been "randy" during the marriage herself. 2) She has always had political aspirations and thought she could turn her betrayed self by Bill (the very public ones) into strength of endurance. 3) They both thought it could hurt them politically if they got divorced.
I have a somewhat different take on the Clinton marriage then most. To me there is no way possible that highly intelligent Hillary did not know Bill was most likely running around all through the beginning of their courtship and past that. It could also be possible that Hillary was a bit of a nymph herself. Hillary is not fully exempt from early affair rumors. It sounds far fetched but maybe its not, there are couples out there into wife swapping. Not the same I know...but! Maybe, as they are both brilliant and have so many things in common as well as ambitions they had an understanding that as long as possible encounters were very discrete they could live with that. Problems then arouse when Bill started getting sloppy and not discrete. However, there is no way she did not know about a few more discrete affairs from the very beginning. There must have been some sort of understanding between them. Hillary was unlike most other first ladies back then; she had her own career and earned her own money. She was not stuck in a marriage. Hillary is not stupid but she is cunning.
As far as her recent au natural slightly unkempt look goes...I guess she's finally reached a stage in life where she's just sick of trying to please others with her outer appearance. It's hard to say how that will go over in her very public position and if it will be excused due to her longevity. I don't make the rules; people judge others by how they are put together. I guess women who don't want to take the time to pull themselves together will applaud her, others will think her getting slovenly and others will think it high time she be viewed by only her brain. She obviously doesn't care one way or the other and wants to focus on her views and accomplishments. I don't understand all of where she is coming from but can not help but have respect for her very strong inner strength and brilliant mind. As for the rest, when they die it will make an unbelievable "R" rated movie.
I wonder how she picks out her clothes. With her money, she could easily hire a great stylist and just have the clothes handed to her, since she doesn't have time or interest.
OTOH, I admire her attitude. It's the way she feels and she should do what she wants and laugh off the criticism, as she does. She looks professional enough, imo. She got very far in life without power dressing. I'm more envious of those brains than of, say, Jackie's chicness and beauty.
its my guess she picks out clothes that she likes.
Can you imagine the outcry if she started traveling with a stylist, makeup artist and a fulltime hairdresser? Even if she was using her own funds to pay for such, the info would be 'spinned' so that many would think that taxpayers were paying for those services.
If I had to choose between the two extremes: the Pelosi look or the au naturale Hillary look, I'd choose the latter. Fortunately I don't have to choose either for myself and I fall somewhere in between.
I saw the photograph of Hillary with her straggly hair and no makeup--she looks incredibly happy--good for her.
There are advantages to coming to an age in life where you don't care what others think and are only true to yourself, and it's incredibly liberating.
If her appearance does not affect how she represents the US, I personally don't care. Like GIBBY, I would rather see her as she has been appearing lately than look at Nancy Pelosi's overdone appearance. It's just a personal preference.
That being said, she does not appear to take good care of herself. She could have an afternoon makeover and still not be overdone and look a lot better--if she has had a stylist for those unflattering pantsuits and the recent lack of hair care, she should get a refund.
Like it or not, we do tell the world certain things about us by our appearance, even if it's just that we don't care.
Not that there's anything wrong with that. ;)
Hillary is my personal hero (heroine?). To me she embodies all that a feminist represents. Smart, bold, self assured, knows what she wants and does not feel the need to pander to what others think she needs to represent with her appearance. I would much, much rather have her concentrating on world affairs than worrying about how her hair looks.
I can understand why she has stayed with her husband. I've made a decision to stay with my husband despite infidelity. Every marriage is personal and she being a very smart, independant woman, has made the choice that is personal to her. I salute her for feeling confident in herself and her marriage to make it work for them.
"That being said, she does not appear to take good care of herself. She could have an afternoon makeover and still not be overdone and look a lot better--if she has had a stylist for those unflattering pantsuits and the recent lack of hair care, she should get a refund.
Like it or not, we do tell the world certain things about us by our appearance, even if it's just that we don't care."
Demi - that's it exactly. And whoever else said she doesn't look like she takes care of herself. I meant to comment on that response earlier. Putting your best foot (face!) forward to me is also simply shows self confidence.
I doubt Hilary even has the time to take care of herself. Her job is so demanding, she flies all over the world constantly. The woman has got to be exhausted which is one of the reasons I read she'll "retire" in January. IMO, she works harder and is gone more than Obama.
I will say that she looks better when she smiles when not wearing makeup.
As far as her marriage, Bill had more than one indiscretion. That's where I lose my respect for her as a "strong" woman for tolerating it all these years. I think it sends a really bad message to women.
I still like her though. :)
"As far as her marriage, Bill had more than one indiscretion. That's where I lose my respect for her as a "strong" woman for tolerating it all these years. I think it sends a really bad message to women."
I don't lose any respect for her at all over Bill's actions and her decision to stay. For him, yes. For her, no. There is so much more to a marriage than sexual fidelity. There are shared goals, commitment to building and raising a family, friendship, love and mutual respect. I don't think an affair (or even a history of sexual adventures) necessarily negates those other considerations. Look at the old European model where most gentlemen kept mistresses, and even well-born ladies were permitted their affairs, so long as they were handled discretely and the children's parentage was never brought into question.
While it's not a paradigm I want for my own marriage, it is one I can understand (and respect) someone else for accepting. Marriage is not a 'happily ever after' fairy tale for most couples, and I think a certain acceptance of that reality is a healthy and mature response. I also know more than one woman who has regretted divorcing 'a good man' in a fit of pique over a sexual indiscretion.
Guess what I'm saying is that Hillary's no doormat. She has good options and chose the one she wanted to choose.
How can a husband who constantly cheats on his wife, in front of the whole world no less, be considered respectful? I'd bet the farm if Bill wasn't president but still a high official, she would have divorced him. But I think she had her own political aspirations which is partly why she stayed with him.
I'm also in the camp who thinks when a spouse cheats they are also cheating on their children.
Most women in her position cannot afford a divorce so they endure the marriage and hope their husbands don't stray again.
And didn't she say she wasn't a "Stand by my man woman?" Uh, she did. lol
I guess it all depends on what we think marriage is, but fidelity is huge to me. I think it's the biggest betrayal a spouse can commit. Every bit of trust goes out the door...forever. How can you remain married to someone you'll always secretly question i/r/t trust?
Outside of abuse, cheating is the most humiliating thing a person can do to their spouse. But hey, as long as she's happy is all that counts. And I wonder if she really is, deep down that is?
Whoa Sweeby! This turn of conversation would make for a very interesting topic. I have to comment to your remarks. First of all I wouldn't consider an affair or even a one-night stand a "sexual indiscretion" or simply sexual fidelity. It's so much more than that. It's a breach of trust. Yes, there is more to a marriage, but for me, trust is one of the main things.
Of course, who can say what we would do unless we are in those shoes? I have known others who have moved on in their marriage after infidelity. Even moved on and survived, having a happy marriage.
We don't know what goes on behind closed doors. As mentioned before, Hillary could be carrying on herself. Perhaps they have an "arrangement", although I doubt publicity was part of the deal. Perhaps they worked through things and decided because of their years together, their child, their aligned careers, etc. they would work things out and stay together? Hillary had options and for whatever reason, she chose to stay with her husband.
Oakley, most women in her position can't afford a divorce? I have to disagree with that. A divorce doesn't even have to be that expensive. I think there are many other reasons that women chose to stay with a cheating spouse.
There is definitely much more to a marriage than sexual fidelity. We are sexual creatures; some of us more than others. Monogamy is the ideal for some; not realistic for others. Only the people involved can decide if their relationship is strong enough to survive an indiscretion. Hillary knew hers was.
I respect a woman who has the guts to go out in public without any makeup. A man (most) starts his mornings by washing, shaving and admiring his face. Now he's ready for the world to see the real him. Women, on the other hand, have to camouflage themselves so nobody can tell what they really look like. Then they can teach their daughters the same regime when they become 11 or 12. The message being that you're not good enough the way you are. Might as well wear a burka.
I'd rather put my trust in a woman politician who spends their time on important world issues instead of an hour or two of every day spent with a stylist and makeup artist.
"I doubt Hilary even has the time to take care of herself. Her job is so demanding, she flies all over the world constantly..."
Didn't Condeleeza Rice have the same position yet always managed to look pulled together and stayed fit?
Two completely different body types and personalities. I'll go with Hillary every time.
Yes, Condoleeza Rice is also an accomplished pianist and figure skater in addition to her diplomatic skills.
But then she wasn't trying to keep track of Bill!
"A divorce doesn't even have to be that expensive." - sorry, Tina, but have to completely disagree. More and more people are staying together nowadays because they cannot afford to get divorced. My own uncontested divorce with relatively simple financials, negotiated through mediation where there were barely any disagreements to mediate, zero court appearances cost over $6,000... add court appearances and I believe the average divorce costs more like $25k on up to 6 figures. Not to mention the cost of maintaining two households when before there were one (both large enough to accommodate the kid)... divorce is financially crippling. We could barely afford it and that is with two professional salaries... and now I am living on some fraction of the median income in my area, even considering child support. The only reason I can afford it is lack of debt leaving my marriage.
Of course none of that applies to Hillary though. I think she stayed with Bill because it is her choice and not really any of anyone's business. I do not think she sets a bad example for other women, but rather she sets a good example. She sets the example that we are all free to make our own choices, even when those choices are not the popular ones, even when people call us bad names because of the choices we make. At the end of the day it's our own unmadeup face we have to see in the mirror and answer to.
Holy cow kgwlisa! The only person that I know the actual cost of their divorce is a sibling. Non contested, no children, etc. - it was pretty straightforward, and while not cheap, manageable. That is crazy! I wasn't figuring in the cost of the new (single) lifestyle afterwards though in my remarks - only the cost of a divorce.
As I stated earlier, I feel it's important for a woman to be able to support herself, but I didn't factor in children. Hopefully there is another parent to share those costs, but not always.
I hope things are going well for you now!
Of course I don't know how Condoleezza lives, but I doubt she was commuting from NY to DC all the time, along with flying around the world. Let alone being married and having a daughter H probably sees often. Plus, Hillary is 7 years older than Condoleezza. Seven years is a big difference for many women, physically. Condoleezza was in her late 40's-early 50's when she began the job. Hillary's around 64-65.
Tina, divorce is VERY expensive even with no children. I do agree with you about the trust issue. I do think the majority of marriages begin thinking each is going to remain faithful.
If my dh cheated on me, I'd be psychologically damaged in many ways. The intimacy aspect with the other woman would probably kill me. lol. My self-esteem would fly out the door and nothing he could say or do would restore it. I would never trust him again. Ever. He would be watching his back in his sleep. :)
I guess I'm old-fashioned. I find marriage to be sacred between two people.
Remember Vince Foster? There was a lot of talk back then that he was Hillary's lover. But that's another topic. :)
Tina - the increased costs of maintaining two households that kgwlisa was talking about are not necessarily after the divorce. In my state, if there are children, you have to be separated for one year before divorce is allowed. So that means two separate households now have to be paid for before the divorce even happens.
I don't understand why a woman staying with a man who cheated on her is considered to be a bad example. It takes a lot of commitment to your vows and personal fortitude to accomplish what she did. Shame on Bill for cheating, he's absolutely the bad guy in it; to criticize a woman for making a personal choice about her own personal life IMHO is wrong. After all, she's not living her life for the sole purpose of setting examples for us or so the world can judge her. She made a difficult decision and stuck to it, I'm sure in the face of it all that had to be extremely painful.
Now had there been physical abuse in the mix then yes, it's poor choice (as with Rhianna), but not when you look at what they had invested in their marriage and how much it obviously meant to her.
i also admire her for being a public figure and not being that concerned about her appearance... i think that if it was me and cameras were shooting my every move, i would be spending more time with my hair and makeup!! but, then again, i know i would get really tired of always having to pull myself together to be camera ready and might quit fussing too!!!
i do think that if she decides to make another run for the presidency(which i do wish she would!) she will spend more time with her appearance since it WILL affect the vote...
i do think that she and bill are both brillant and ambitious and are probably very compatible. they also must have a great deal of respect for each other...which has helped them weather his behavior and the public humiliation...
My divorce cost less than $1K, with the bulk of it going to a mediator we went to one time. I imagine when you are taking into account a minor child or children, things are more complicated and thus more expensive.
In my opinion, anyone who cheats doesn't respect their spouse or the marriage. Bill may respect her and the marriage NOW especially after coming so close to loosing it, but no one will ever convince me that he respected Hillary or their marriage when he cheated. If he did, he wouldn't have cheated.
There seems to be some assumption he is not cheating now, how would we know? I thought they lived separate lives.
I tend to think once a serial cheater, always one.
Well, this is true BB, maybe there are agreements between them. Who knows? I'm not sure I agree about once and always though. People do mature and change.
A serial cheater?
Natal, don't you get tired of analyzing everyone's posts? You wear me out! Geesh!!
i have a hard time believing that the ML incident was an isolated one... i would think that hillary had an idea of bill's character prior to the whitehouse incident...
i haven't lived through an infidelity, but i THINK i'm intuitive enough that i would have an inkling if my husband was a strayer or was straying... i don't know if i would ever be able to forgive, but i would think i would still respect an awful lot about the man i married-- his parenting/relationship with the kids, his intellect, his humor, etc,etc.... a lot of living/experience goes into a multi-decade marriage- it's not a childless 3-5 year marriage we're talking about! i am assuming that there must be alot of good in a relationship-compatibility, respect, history, mutual goals, etc- that can withstand infidelity. i sure as heck don't see hillary as the type of woman who would shamefully and stubbornly 'stand by her man'....
BB you keep bringing up the word respect, but to me, cheating is an absolute COMPLETE disrespect for the relationship and spouse. A cheater cheats on the marriage, the wife and even the children. It's the ultimate betrayal and especially in the manner he chose to do it in. It could not have been more humiliating to her. Regardless of whether anyone agrees with her politics or not, it was really amazing that she rose above it as gracefully and as poised as she did. I however will never believe he respected her while he was cheating on her.
Olliesmom, I do tire of your nitpicking.
Lukk, no one entering the cheating arena is thinking about their marriage. If they were they wouldn't be doing it. Painting all cheaters with the disrespect brush is a little unfair, IMO. Some deserve it, some don't.
Natal, it goes both ways!
I don't think it's unfair at all. I've been in that arena, been cheated on so harsh or not, it's how I feel.
I have to agree with Lukk on the respect aspect. How on earth could someone respect their partner, their marriage and then cheat? That doesn't make sense. But Lukk, I think the very point you are making is why some people don't understand how she could stay with him.
Whoever mentioned ML being a one time thing - weren't there others who came forward? Maybe I'm thinking of someone else.
Thanks Graywings - maybe costs are different in different areas. The relative I mentioned spent less than $1000 on her divorce also. Basically court/lawyer costs. Gail - what state are you in? I didn't realize some states require that. That certainly would add to the expense.
There are a lot of marriages where infidelity was not a deal breaker. It really depends of the people involved. The reason I have respect for her choices is regardless of what drove them, SHE believed for herself that working it out with him was the right decision and regardless of what the public opinion was she stuck to it.
It's the same in Virginia...the parties must live separate and apart for one year before a divorce can be granted. Divorce can get very expensive, even when children are not involved. At any rate, I seriously doubt that money was an issue for the Clintons!
As far as a breach of trust, there are so many ways people can break each other's hearts that don't involve infidelity. Disappointments, deep pain & sorrow, serious grievances, can result from so many things.
It's all so personal, what we can reconcile and make peace with, and what shatters us for good.
BB, mine was a legitimate question. What constitutes a serial cheater?
I'm a naturalist so I say good for Hilary for showing she's comfortable with her natural looks. And that comment has nothing to do with her politics because I don't often agree with them. Politics aside, I do like the woman.
Tina - I'm in Virginia.
I have to agree with trailrunners remarks. Hillary is one of the most power hungry woman I have ever seen - and I don't mean that in a good way. Would I love to see a woman president? Sure, if she was qualified, but I don't think that Hillary is - IMO.
Re" the cheating - they are the reason that many of us had to explain to our 9 yr olds what a bj is. It is impossible to say exactly what may or may not have happened in their marriage, but what we do know as fact is what happened under the desk in the oval office. What shame that brought our country - what ammunition that gave to the eastern cultures so bent on portraying us as a shameful people.
IMO, and without knowing them personally, which I don't think anyone here does, I think she could have cared less what he did with his "willie" but stayed with him because of the access it gave her to the power she so craved. Again, IMO.
However, to address the issue that was brought up on this thread, I do think that her appearance is important. This is not to say that she needs to look like a movie star or top model, but looking frumpy isn't the answer. I do not believe this has anything to do with her sex. Men in power look presentable, groomed and well dressed. I don't believe any top male politician would attend a meeting with a wrinkled shirt, unshaven with bed head. I am sure they glance in the mirror before they leave the house, she looks as if she doesn't.
Re the pantsuits - she is on the hippy side, as am I - we are all born in different shapes and sizes. There are ways to design clothes, including pantsuits, to not emphasis our negatives. Her clothes aren't the right cut for her, and I say this not because she is a woman. If a man were to wear a suit with the buttons bursting at the seams because it was not a proper cut, there would be reason to be critical of that. Like it or not, our appearance does mean something if you are representing the most powerful and wonderful country in the world.
Just google it, Natal.
I get it, she's power hungry because she want's to go as far politically as she can but non of the men politicians with their willies all over the place are. Makes perfect sense!
I think we can say penis.
Willies is just so much funner!
"What shame that brought our country - what ammunition that gave to the eastern cultures so bent on portraying us as a shameful people."
Perhaps, but if those citizens really believe that his actions were worse than strapping explosives on a child and turning him into a suicide bomb, they are a lost cause, anyway.
Especially when they're slick?
Sorry, I couldn't resist. Yes, part of me is 12 years old.
It was more of a test. On CL you can say penis, but not vagina.
I hate that word, both words actually. I doubt I'm alone with that especially since there are so many nicknames for them.
A discussion about a naked face turns into one about euphemisms for genitals! Perfect!
Back to your original point, Lukki...really, what if she IS power hungry? Ambition drives some people! Don't we need people in power to have drive and ambition to get things done?
Power hunger doesn't raise an eyebrow if it dwells within a man does it? In fact, isn't usually thought of in a postive light? As in, "He's ambitious, tough, determined, and tenacious...what a winner!"
Lukk, you don't use nicknames for other body parts do you? I've never heard of adults having an issue using correct terminology. I have heard the debate among some parents, but it's generally acknowledged that using proper names with children avoids sending a message of shame or embarrassment that's often associated with cutesy nicknames.
Exactly, I think it's BS to say just because it's woman with those traits, she's power hungry. Whether one agrees with her politics or not, she still has enough accomplishments under her belt to be able to succeed perfectly well without Bill. She certainly didn't need his "good character" to carry her. If I recall correctly he was actually a liability when she became Secretary of State.
Natal, a couple years ago my DD was in an appearance of The Vagina Monologues. I was discussing it with a coworker when another came over to shush me because I was 'using that word'. Oh my, I actually said v-a-g-I-n-a out loud, and in mixed company no less!! It was odd because the person is a well educated professional. I guess it's just what your comfort level is. I grew up calling breast minnews, but taught my children the anatomical term. My Mother still refuses to say the word breast-she is even uncomfortable saying it in relation to poultry.
As to HC and her perceived hunger for power and her lack of 'acceptable' grooming...women with ambition are often looked upon with disfavor. If they do like Elizabeth Dole, and get the full salon look, they'll not be considered serious about the job.
Remember when HC made the comment about baking cookies? The woman cannot win because she does not fit that 'traditional' role of a woman in politics. Women are STILL expected to look pretty and let the men handle the tough stuff. Unless you're a former beauty queen-then you have what it takes to possibly POTUS.
When I refer to her being power hungry in a negative manner it has nothing to do with her sex. We need powerful people to run our country, our defense, our corporations etc. I just want them qualified. I respected Condaleeza Rice - not because she was a woman, but because I thought she was great at what she did. So for me, this is not a discussion of sex, I have no respect for Hillary, not because of what went on in her marriage, or her sex, but simply because I don't think she brings much to the table.
For the rest of the post, there are just too many things not to respond to, for you have brought me many laughs, and today was one of those days I needed them. When I said "willies" I forgot about "Slick Will" so the pun wasn't intended but slap me on the back and give a thanks to Terriks for picking up on it!
As a Mom, there are times when conversations with the kids needed the correct terminology, but heck, boobies and peepees or whatever can bring levity to a subject sometimes uncomfortable to kids - not to bring them shame, actually quite the opposite. As a kid my Nom called my privates a "pa-tock-a" - no idea why, but it makes me smile everytime Governor Pataki of NY is discussed. Like Terriks, I am 12 again.
For you Greys Anatomy fans - even Dr Bailey referred to her privates during childbirth as her "VaJayJay" in one of the funniest episodes ever. I love being 12 again!
Oddly I think woman can get away with being powerful and ambitious if she is highly intelligent, not too good looking and not too unattractive and of course she must be well groomed and suited. That seems to be a package the over all public will approve of.
I can not think of any powerful men that are not well groomed and reasonably well dressed...can you?
I can only think of one man that gets slammed and thatÃ¢ÂÂs Ã¢ÂÂThe DonaldÃ¢ÂÂ for his hair but he is otherwise very well groomed.
I think it's easier for a professional man to look good because their hair (or lack of) is much simpler to care for and keep looking good through humidity, rain, wind, etc.; they don't wear makeup, and they practically have a uniform to wear everyday-- the suit.
OK - let me be 12 one more time. I just got back from the ER. My 20 yr old daughter has the coxsackie virus. She works in a day care and one of the kids was sick with the same symptoms - itchy and painful blisters on her hands, tongue, feet, nose, and in her mouth - my poor baby! I knew of the virus, she did not, so after she was given the diagnosis it was giggles all the way home. A fun Mom and daughter moment, and it took her mind off the itchies until the medicine kicked in. Admit it, it is a tough word to say without thinking nasty thoughts~
Sorry your daughter got the icks...but that IS a pretty funny name. I'd have giggled too. I once met a woman name Dickie Buttz and I had a very, very hard time keeping a straight face when I heard her name.
Sorry your daughter is going through such a very uncomfortable illness, Lynn! Hope she's better, ASAP!
Oh gosh, Pesky! DB is a name made for changing!
Well I think the parents of DB should be sued for cruel and unusual punishment.
Lynn, I hope your daughter gets well soon. That sounds like a miserable illness. And what a terrible name for it! But funny. LOL
They gave her a medicine for the mouth blisters that totally numbs her tongue - now she can't say the word without really making it worse than it already sounds. It is going to take a few more days but hopefully the benedryl will keep her sleeping through most of it. Thanks for the good wishes. I will pass them to her - she thinks my "forums" are nothing more than women like me with OCD about wall colors - she doesn't appreciate the need for 16 samples of color on the walls. There is hope for her yet, but again thanks for the well wishes.
pesky1, I very rarely laugh out loud with books, movies, tv etc. but I had a gutteral laugh out loud for poor Dickie B, hee-hee. Shoot those parents.
You need to lighten up and have some fun Natal, sometimes you are wound just a little too tight. :c)
Hillary Clinton doesn't bring much to the table? She graduated from Wellesley College and Yale Law School, and was a Senator. You may not like her for many reasons, but you can't say she is unaccomplished.
Who's wound a little too tight?
Ummm, you!!! Why should you care what I or anyone else likes to call our body parts. If you want to use those terms feel free but that doesn't mean I or anyone else has to... LOL geeze...