How to get rid of a bad renter with no lease (long)

Chemocurl zn5b/6a IndianaJune 6, 2006

I have an elderly friend who has 3 apartment she rents. She recently (about 9 months ago) rented a unit to a woman who has been a late pay, sometimes as much as a month.

Last month the renter paid with 2 checks (late), and each was for 1/2 month. One was even post(?) dated...dated a few weeks out. I just found out this eve, that the last check BOUNCED. She asked what I thought she should do.

She said she would like something in writing as she feared the woman would lie and not agree to whatever the terms were. I sugggested we both go and talk to her, and I would be a witness to whatever was said. She said she could not do it this eve, as she was just too upset by it. I understood, as I was infuriated about it myself.

Also she (friend) is intimidated by this woman and thinks she could get quite nasty about things.

In the meantime, a previous wonderful renter has moved back to town, is living with his mother in one of the apartments, and would love to be able to get back in the one, once the bad pay woman vacates it.

Can my friend just say that she no longer wants to rent to her and leave it at that?

My friend is not very acertive, and has little help with matters such as this other than me. She trusts what I say, but is hesitant to ever do anything to upset the applecart.

Please help me help her.

What might a signed piece of paper say? Having her evicted is almost out of the question.

I suggested to her, that she now demand payment in the form of a money order. I suggested she start calling her a few days b4 rent is due, and to get a commitment that it WILL be paid on time. I suggested that for each week it is late, that there will be a $35 penalty.




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I suggested to her, that she now demand payment in the form of a money order. I suggested she start calling her a few days b4 rent is due, and to get a commitment that it WILL be paid on time. I suggested that for each week it is late, that there will be a $35 penalty.

So she does not have a lease or even a written agreement to rent with this person? Personally, I don't even think writing down an agreement between the two (three) of you is worth much. The checks are late and bouncing now, so it does not seem like the renter cares much. In fact, she even may figure she can play your friend along for a while. IMHO, adding $35/week isn't going to help this situation and doesn't seem like it would be much of an inducement.

I think your friend should see a lawyer familiar with property law in your area. None of us really can advise without knowing much more about your area.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 8:32AM
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I found this on google

"When you have no lease, the landlord can ask you to leave without giving a reason. This is called termination of tenancy without cause. The landlord is only required to give you written notice, a full rental period in advance, asking you to move on the last day of the rental period. You still must pay the last month's rent"

"If your landlord gives you a proper written notice to move but you do not move out, your landlord can evict you by filing an unlawful detainer lawsuit. If your landlord wins, the judge may order you to move from the property, and may order you to pay double rent for the time you stayed after the date you were supposed to move out, plus court costs. If you win, you can stay and continue to pay rent until the end of your lease or the landlord gives you proper notice."

I also thought this was interesting

"When you have no lease, a landlord can raise the rent at any time. There is no limit on the amount of the rent increase. If you cannot afford the rent increase, all you can do is give your notice of intent to move at the end of the next rental period."

Your friend needs to send a certified letter informing her of this. If she has a family attorney she can have them draft the letter.
What a good friend you are

    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 9:03AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Thank you both. I appreciate your input.

I now have a friend sending me some rental agreement forms. I will look them over and make any adjustments I think would apply to the situation....hopefully.

If the renter then does not take paying her rent seriously, as it should be, then seeing an attorney may be the best. I like the sound of that " termination of tenancy without cause." I imagine the laws regarding this vary from state to state. She doesn't have a family lawyer, but may need to find one.
It was also suggested to me by a friend, that she hire a property manager, through a realty company....the cost being 10% of the rent paid, plus 1st months rent. I hesitate to suggest that though, because who is to say that they would keep it rented and collected any better than the present situation. You can't get blood out of a turnip...and possibly she would have to be involved in getting the bad renter out anyway.

I know good renters are very hard to get, and it is a shame she has one waiting and wanting the apartment.

I will post the outcome, when there is one. I'm sure she isn't ready to talk to an attorney yet. She usually is just optimistic that things will correct themselves. She is just too kind and unassertive for her own good when it comes to matters such as this.

Karla, Thanks for the kind words. I used to work with her and we have been the best of friends for about 20 years.riend, and have This

    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 11:27AM
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If there is no written agreement, ***in general*** the tenant is probably considered to be on a term equal to the length of rent payment; if she pays rent a month at a time, she is a month-to-month tenant and probably can be terminated with a month's notice given before the start of the next month. This varies with state and local laws, so you have to check. Yes, provide written notice. Change to rental terms (instituting late fees, raising rents, etc.) would also require this same amount of notice.

If she is not paying rent, she can also be asked to leave for non-payment. The way this works is that when rent is not paid on time, you give her a notice that she has to either pay or move within xx days (number of days controlled by the lease and local laws, so again you have to check the laws). However, if she pays the rent, then she gets to stay.

Eviction is not an *alternative* to one of those options. Eviction is what happens when you've (legally) told her she has to leave and she does not vacate the premises. Then you can go to court to have her removed. But first you have to tell her to leave via some legal method such as the two options I listed. And you will have to prove you told her to leave, so do it in writing.

Laws vary. What myfask said is generally true, but there are places where rent control still exists, and other localities with more stringent protections for tenants. You need to know what yours say. If you try to terminate her tenancy illegally and she knows the laws, you can get into big trouble.

And, this lady needs to get ALL her tenants on written agreements. I would also suggest a property manager, partly because it sounds as if she is too timid to be confrontational with tenants who don't pay but more importantly because she is not handling her rentals in a businesslike manner. She apparently does not have written agreements and has not bothered to educate herself on the laws pertaining to rentals. She needs to know the laws not only for her own protection in dealing with shady tenants, but also so that she does not break the laws herself from her end of it. This is not a hobby. She is entering into legal agreements with large amounts of money and valuable property at stake. She needs to treat it like a business or hire someone who will.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 12:22PM
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I agree that someone who is naturally non-assertive needs to hire a property manager to handle the business of renting her property. This particular tenant seems to have figured out that she can take advantage of a timid elderly woman. This situation will not improve. I'd have your friend--or, better yet, a real estate attorney she hires--send a termination letter, and then when the tenant ignores it (which I suspect is what will happen) start eviction proceedings.

Also, get the rest of the tenants on leases.

Good luck.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 12:38PM
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It seems to me that this tenant has taken advantage of her opportunity to be lax.

Your friend (and you) need some allies, firstly, who can give you information as to what is and isn't allowed, and secondly, to help you read the riot act to this tenant.

No doubt there are agencies in your community that deal with various community related matters - check with volunteer bureau or other community agencies.

Is there a landlords' association in your area?

Check with some other landlords - even the ones that are superintendents of high rises, etc.

They'll know the local laws and what you can or can't do. If you find one that doesn't want to talk to you or is snippy, go see another. Don't get discouraged by one bad experience - with them, either.

Maybe one of them would agree to tell this tenant what for.

I don't know about local laws, but I think that a registered letter to her telling her that her behaviour is unacceptable, that she knows full well that rent is due in full on the due date (usually first of the month).

That if it is not paid in full and on time, that the landlord will take what remedial actions are available, including to have her evicted, if she continues to evade her obligations.

Do you have connections with faith groups? Often leaders in churches, synagogues, mosques, etc. have knowledge of such issues - or can tell you who would be a good source of information - and, possibly, help.

Find yourself a tough-looking/sounding person and set him/her on this tenant.

It would be worth a fee to take that course.

Be careful that you act within the law, however, for this tenant may have been through the mill before, and know what laws apply, so that if your friend oversteps, she has more of a leg to stand on.

I'm not in favour of having her sign stuff, at present - she might be able to claim that there was an agreement, in that case, while your friend has a stronger case now, if there is none.

Good wishes with this unpleasant task. I hope that you can bring it to a succeswsful conclusion, soon, and with minimal hassle.

ole joyful

    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 12:45PM
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She must follow the laws of her area. Anything else will cause more problems than it's worth. If she doesn't know the laws, then she should hire the appropriate councel.

It's a real pain, but that's the only way to do it.


    Bookmark   June 7, 2006 at 7:23PM
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The tenant is not going to get better about paying her rent whether you have a rental contract or added fees for late payment. And since there is a good tenant awaiting the apartment then I would do what is necessary to get the old tenant out as fast as I could.

I would not bring a rental agreement into the situation now. It seems that not having a rental agreement makes it a month to month situation and gives you the opportunity to get the tenant out faster.

If you hire a reputable property management company they should be aware of the landlord/tenant laws and be able to advise you how to get the tenant out. Do some internet research on the landlord/tenant laws for your state to confirm what they suggest.

It's quite possible that a certified letter demanding payment (including back rent and current rent) by a specified date or notice to vacate by that date will bring you in compliance with the law and allow you to institute eviction proceedings if necessary. If you hire an experienced property management firm they should be able to handle this. Also at that point the property management firm should be only the one that the tenant deals with which means the owner should not be dealing with the tenant but referring her to the property management company if contacted.

Don't try to put together some kind of rental agreement in the meantime as you may make the situation worse!

    Bookmark   June 8, 2006 at 7:49AM
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"It seems that not having a rental agreement makes it a month to month situation and gives you the opportunity to get the tenant out faster."

You can have written month to month rental agreements. In the case of the tenant she wants out, there is no reason to do this at this time, just give her legally proper notification her tenancy is being terminated. BUT, do it (any any other communications with this tenant) in writing so there is later documentation if it is needed. For the other and future tenants, there is no excuse to not have a written rental agreement, whether it is a year's lease or a month to month. None. You are talking about legal agreements that you could expect to be enforced in court (for eviction or damage to the home or back rent or whatever), you need to have them in writing signed by everyone involved. And I don't care how nice the people involved are, either. Give most people a financial crisis and they are going to do whatever they can to take care of themselves and their family first, and just too damn bad if someone else (like a landlord or tenant) gets screwed in the process.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2006 at 8:30AM
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1. Go to tbe library and get a book about tentant/landlord laws in your area--ASAP! Alternatively/additionally, go to your state's website re: statutes and read up on the ones pertaining to rentals.

2. Follow the laws in the book regarding late payments. In my area (Florida) I have to provide a "three day notice to quit" which has very specific wording. I have to either hand it to the tenant or post it on the door. There are several other steps before eviction. I did evict a tenant once and it took about 25 days total. I also received judgment (but still waiting for payment -- 2 years later) for damages above and beyond the deposit. If you don't do these steps correctly a judge will throw you out on your ear.

3. Keep all rental property monies in a separate account (we even keep ours at a separate bank), and keep the deposit money in a separate escrow account from the regular rent money.

4. Keep a log of all contact you make with tenants.

5. My leases have a clause that after a bounced check they have to pay all fees I incur to recover that money (including my bank fees -- usually $25 -- but that is controlled by a separate state statute) and ALL FUTURE PAYMENTS (including restitution for the bounced check) MUST BE MADE VIA MONEY ORDERS, CASH, OR CASHIER'S CHECK. Period. End of story. I don't care if it's a hardship for the renter to get a money order or cashier's check (additional fees required on their part to the issuer). Not my problem.

6. If you have a lease written to 2 people (roommates) make sure you only accept a check from 1 of them (not separate checks from each for half of the amount). What if one bounces and the other doesn't??? What a hassle.

Check out mrlandlord dot com for additional message boards specifically about being a landlord.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2006 at 10:39AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Thank you all.

You've given me a lot to think about here, and I think given the situation, a property manager would be a really good thing.

By now she may know there is the old excellant renter ready and waiting if/when the apartment becomes available.


    Bookmark   June 9, 2006 at 7:18PM
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I'm not familiar with real estate law, but if she really wants this non-paying person out and her other reliable guy in, how about she visit with the current tenant and pay her (ie $100 and forgive the bounced check or whatever) once she vacates the premises within 10 days. If she doesn't take her up on the offer she could provide a written eviction notice to begin the process (with you as her witness) and then up the anty to say $150 if she leaves within 10 days, but after that the offers off the table. The current tenant has no incentive to pay because there are no consequences to her not paying.

    Bookmark   June 11, 2006 at 3:42PM
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Like serveral people state, she should possibly get a manager to handle the property, but check with the tax advisor first. Sometimes when you do not act as "manager" you cannot deduct somethings from your taxes. She should check with her tax advisor, and look around for a Management Corp. Make sure they are licensed and bonded.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2006 at 5:58PM
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Eviction laws are kind of unique--I am an attorney and manage property of my own. Eviction attorneys who specialize in that kind of law don't charge that much. In every state the notices you start out with have to be correct in every respect, and they can do that for your friend. The first notice is a "NOtice to pay rent or Quit" if the tenant doesn't pay then an eviction will follow. It is not hard to evict a tenant but all the paperwork has to be exact--a person will be deprived of where they live. They have to be served the complaint (and sometimes other papers) etc. If I owned property in a different community--I would hire a local eviction attorney, because its that tricky. The laws constantly change and can favor the tenant if you try to cut corners. Most bad tenants know more than landlords do about the paperwork.

    Bookmark   June 14, 2006 at 4:40AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Update. My friend Angie (not her real name) decided she would like to go over and have a talk with the late paying renter, Katrina (not her real name).

Angie's brother suggested that in exchange for Angie not going to the Prosecutor with the bad check, that she should ask Katrina to pay the bad check , (1/2 months rent for May), and bank fee expenses, pay the rent for June, and tell her to be out by July 2nd. That is when her rent is next due, and that would give her 2 weekds to find a place and get out. He figured that having the check gave her some leverage to be put to some good use.

We went over and before we went in, Angie said, "I can't remember what I'm supposed to say." I assured her, I would help her relay what her brother had just suggested, and would fill in any blanks for her, and would be very nice about it.

We went over and told her she needed to pay those things mentioned above, and then to plan to vacate the premises by July 2nd.

Katrina, "Well, if I pay the check and the $300 for June on the 29th, then can I stay? I get paid the 29th."

Us, (me) "You have been repeatedly late, possibly you are not working steady enough and earning enough to try and have a place of your own by yourself right now."

Katrina, "No, I make enough money, its just that my employer messed my pay up last time." (and paid me with a rubber check)...BTW, we think she knew the rent check was going to bounce even b4 it did.

Us,(me) "That's not Angies problem. When your rent is late, it causes hardships on her. She has bills to pay here. Taxes, insurance, water, sewage, electric, gas, maintenance, besides her own personal bills. When you are late paying, that causes her to have to let something go herself, or causes her to have to do without, until you finally get around to paying. Your rent should be the most important and first thing you pay. If you don't pay your rent, and don't have a place to live, you don't or won't need electric, phone, cable, or the internet."

Katrina, "Well, I'll try to do better".

Us (me), "Well you do know then that July rent will be due July 2nd? Right?" You will have the $450 already owed, and Julys rent by the 2nd? You can come up with $750 on or before the 2nd?"

Katrina, "Well, I can try."

Me, "No, you won't just try. You will have it, or you can plan to vacate the premises. Do you understand? Paying late is no longer an option and cannot continue"

Katrina, "Yes, I will find a way. I can get it.

Angie, you have been really great to me, and I really appreciate it. You've been very kind."

Angie, "Well, I just hate having to do things like this."

Then awkward silence

Me, " Yes, Angie is really a kind and good to everyone...too kind for her own good...that's why I love her for the wonderful dear friend she has always been to me."

Angie, "Oh Sue"...and she just blushes

Another awkward silence...Angie at such a loss for words...

Me, "Ok, so you're going to have it all together by the 2nd, right? It will need to be paid with a money order. Walmart has them for 46 cents."

Katrina, "Yes, I will have it all together."

Me, "Going forward, if rent is ever late in the future, it could result in late payment penalties, a rent increase, or being asked to vacate the premises. Do you understand?"

Katrina, "Ok."

And there was some more blah, blah, blah, I have spared you all. I hope what I said was generic enough to not cause any problems. I really don't think it could ever be a problem for Angie, since I did almost all the talking, and I'm really not scared of any ramifications concerning is too short to sweat the hopefully small stuff.

Now what are your thoughts? How bad of a thing did I do?

I asked Angie just what she thought of what I had said? She said I had said just exactly what she had wanted to say, but couldn't. I asked if I had been polite and kind in what I had said, and she said she thought I had been polite, yet firm, as was necessary.

We then headed off into the sunset to the nearest Dairy Queen for some much needed and deserved comfort food.

We both felt such a great sense of relief that it was over.

Time will soon tell, just how seriously Katrina took our little chat.

Sue...who sometimes is all mouth, and who is seldom at a loss for words

    Bookmark   June 19, 2006 at 12:53AM
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So still nothing in writing?

From your original post:
She said she would like something in writing as she feared the woman would lie [...]

So what changed between then and now?

    Bookmark   June 19, 2006 at 9:20AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

She never mentioned it, procrastinated and worried over it for a week or so, really just wanted and NEEDED to get some of the back owed money and quick. She also didn't see the necessity of having it in writing, if she had a witness to what was said, and agreed upon.

She also has a very hard time making decisions, so I knew it would be a royal pain, ever getting her to agree to anything being good and right, anytime in the near future.

Also, without hiring an attorney (and she has no family attorney) I was leary of putting anything in writing ourselves, for fear of it being considered wrong in terms of the law.

I do think I will work on her though for us to try and hammer out a Month to Month rental agreement sometime b4 the Aug rent is due.

Thanks again for the wonderful input from everyone. I (we) appreciate it!


    Bookmark   June 19, 2006 at 9:36AM
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Sue, I think you are a wonderful friend to Angie. It was so nice (and brave) of you to speak up for her the way you did. I hope she bought you a super-size hot fudge sundae for all your help! I hope all works out in July and August. Please let us forum readers know!

    Bookmark   June 19, 2006 at 5:08PM
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Katrina not only owes for June but for half of May as well? Nothing you said was wrong, but the decision (not your decision, I know) to not demand payment from this woman immediately is not imo a very smart move. All Angie did was just give this woman a couple more weeks of rent free living, plus she is going to have to do this all over again July 2 when Katrina doesn't have the money, or has some of the money but not all, and asks for more time again.

Her check bounced because her employer made a mistake with her paycheck? A month ago? When she already hadn't paid her entire month's rent for May like she was supposed to? Puh-leeze. So why didn't she make good the rent the second she got the corrected paycheck? Or, if her employer still hasn't "corrected" the "mistake" from last month, what makes her think she will get paid this month? She's still working for this guy who hasn't paid her for the past month and a half? Right.

Basically, Angie just gave Katrina an extra two weeks of rent free living. It's halfway through June, she still owes rent for half of May and all of June and just sweet-talked her into a couple more weeks. Hate to be a pessimist, but I suspect your sense of relief is going to be short-lived.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2006 at 5:19PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Jannie, The fact of the matter is, the Dairy Queen was closed by the time we stopped and reported to her brother just what all was said. We ended up at Wendys and got a big (though I didn't think it was)Frosty Desert...pretty good though.
Thank you for the kind words.

Quirk, Yes, I thought of that...just putting off receiving any money and her still not paying, but you cannot get blood out of a turnip.
Just getting gossippy here, Angie knows of Katrina's mom, used to work with her years ago. A really sweet lady, and that is why there was no suspicion whatsoever that her daughter wouldn't be a super renter. We think she would be appalled if she was aware what her daughter was doing (acting irresponsibile and taking advantage of Angie's goodness and kindness), and think if push comes to shove, that Katrina can and will get the money from her Mom, rather than risk getting evicted.

Alledgely Katrina works at this place that is owned and run by some men from a foreign country. It is part of their culture that woman are not equal to men, but much below them.
Who knows if they will ever pay her? Possibly she will have to see a prosecutor and have charges filed against them.

As I stated above (in the really long conv) Angie feels she will get all due rent, because of holding the bad check and prosecuting over Katrina's head, until all is paid up.

I (we) didn't want to seem uncaring and unreasonable once she said she wouldn't get paid until the 29th, but that does now make me wonder just what is up with the rubber paycheck, and if her employer ever made it good. If they covered it, then where in the heck did the money go? Why didn't she race over to Angie's with cash in hand with apologies?

I will post more on the ongoing saga.

Thank you all once again.


    Bookmark   June 19, 2006 at 5:41PM
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Working for no pay is called slavery, and it's illegal in the US. Even the taliban wouldn't get away w/ 'hiring' a woman and then not paying her b/c she's 'inferior.'

Sounds like a load of bollocks to me.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2006 at 12:35PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Update: Katrina paid what was previously owed...1 1/2 months rent and check return fee via a money order (from WM as I had suggested.) She said she will pay the rest later.

There really is nothing else (the rest) owed until July 2nd, for July rent. She said her Mom had helped her out. I figured she could/would, rather than have her daughter be asked to move.

I also heard (from another renter in the building) that Katrina had switched jobs again. She doesn't 'work' anywhere very long it seems and touts that she has a Masters Degree. (It certainly isn't in

So we will see what July 2nd brings. Angie is convinced if Katrina's rent is not paid perfectly in the future (via MO), that she will raise the rent and impose late fees. Katrina will in time learn that her rent MUST be paid and MUST be paid on time.

Hopefully all will go perfectly in the future, or Katrina's mom will realize she (Katrina) just cannot make it on her own, and insist that she move back home, rather than continuing to 'help' her with her monthly bills.

Am I dreaming?


    Bookmark   June 28, 2006 at 10:18AM
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Wonderful. Sometimes it's nice to be wrong :). As for whether or not Katrina improves in the future, you can always hope. Some people do learn.

(I have to point out that "working for no pay" is not the definition of slavery, and is not necessarily illegal. Slavery is being held against your will and **forced** to work (whether for pay or not). If I choose to spend a day helping a friend move, that is certainly work for no pay, but it's not slavery. If I choose to spend the day helping total strangers do whatever job they want done without insisting on a paycheck, that may be called either "stupid" or "volunteering", depending on the circumstances, but it's not slavery and it's not illegal. And if they promise to pay me and then don't, that might be fraud, and might be illegal, but it's still not slavery, as long as I am free to stop working and leave whenever I choose.)

    Bookmark   June 28, 2006 at 1:29PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Another wonderful update.

The rent was paid yesterday, on time via a money order.

I really appears our little talk least for now.


    Bookmark   July 3, 2006 at 12:22PM
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chemocurl wrote: "a previous wonderful renter has moved back to town, is living with his mother in one of the apartments, and would love to be able to get back in the one, once the bad pay woman vacates it."

Katrina managed to scape together the money this time. But with the way she job hops, its only a matter of time before this happens again. Doesn't seem like a worry your elderly friend should have to put up with.

If this were my rental I'd ask Katrina to move out (back home with mom?) and let the "previous wonderful renter" move in.

Effective immediately, I'd also make sure I had some sort of lease agreement drawn up by an attorney for all new tenants (even pre-existing ones).

Your friend is fortunate to have someone to stand up for her. I hope she doesn't live near Katrina or her other rentals. No elderly person needs strong-arm tenants intimidating them into free rent.

I read a book called "Secrets of a Millionaire landlord" by Robert Sherman.
Lots of good tips about attracting the right kind of tenants, checking references and how to get rid of bad eggs. They had it at my library.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2006 at 1:17PM
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Having read all the posts here I must say that I would have given Katrina a one months' notice to vacate the apartment. She has proven that she is not responsible about paying her bills or keeping a job. It's not you or your friends job to teach her how to be responsible. Your friend has a "wonderful renter" waiting that wants the apartment, one that pays his rent on time I assume. I believe you made a mistake in letting Katrina stay. If she had to ask MOM for the money to pay the rent now I don't see it getting any better down the road. NancyLouise

    Bookmark   July 5, 2006 at 9:02AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Update on August rent payment.

I checked with Angie today, and she said Katrina paid her rent 2 days early with a money order.

Katrina said she is now working in Indianapolis (maybe a little over an hour away), and that she might be moving.


I was happy to relay the info that she might move, on to the previous wonderful renter.

So, now I've got my fingers crossed for everyone concerned...but mostly for Angie.


    Bookmark   August 10, 2006 at 9:24PM
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Well, I am happy to sit down and eat some crow for lunch. I really didn't think Angie had it in here. Good luck to your friend with future tenants.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2006 at 12:31PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana


No need to eat

I understood and agreed a good bit with what you said.

I really had my doubts if she would indeed come through this month (now her second month on time), and was so pleasantly surprised when she did.

I really don't think she was meaning to scam Angie, but had just put Angie on the bottom of the bill paying list, thinking/knowing she had gotten by with it in the past with nothing said.

She must have really taken things to heart when we confronted her, and Angie didn't dispute anything I said.
I think it was hard for her to tell her mom in June just what had happened (or a part of it), and to have to ask for help.

I'll let you all know if/when the other shoe drops.


    Bookmark   August 11, 2006 at 3:18PM
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When the other shoe drops (if it doesn't drop properly) ...

... does the delinquent tenant get the boot?

ole joyful

    Bookmark   August 11, 2006 at 11:15PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Oh heavens, I can't think that far ahead to Sept 2nd. I'm going to try and not focus on bad things possibly happening, and adopt a wait and see, and then worry with it.

It seems as so many of my dearest friends are in particularly bad situations right now, which was not their making. I can only hope and pray that things will all work out all right.

I'm sure everything will work out one way or another. Sounds like something Dr Phil would say...doesn't it?


    Bookmark   August 12, 2006 at 9:18AM
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Sounds like something Dr Phil would say...doesn't it?

Well, except for the situations "not [of] their making" part. My experience with Dr. Phil (though not voluminous) indicates he's not much on the "it just happened!" school of thought.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2006 at 1:01PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Having a showdown with the tenant tomorrow night. She has been informed (via message left on her phone)that we 'will' be collecting the rent after she gets in from work. It is now due and needs to be paid.

We may need to camp on her door step, as I'm told she gets in between 8pm and midnight, but the tenant downstairs is going to call us on my cell phone to tip us off as to when she gets in.

I suggested to Angie, that I pay her (Angie) the rent the first of each minth, and then I will collect it back from Katrina. Angie knows I am a persistant son of a gun, and will be Katrina's worst nightmare. Last month Katrina stuck part of the rent in Angie's door one time, and some cash another time...just not a good way to be paying her rent.

I'm hoping she will just borrow from her mom as she did the last time when we (I) pressed her about it having to be caught up.

Angie is so upset and mad, and it really takes a lot to make her mad.

I'll try to report tomorrow night just what goes down.

Sue....eating crow simmered in beefy mushroom soup.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2006 at 11:10PM
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why in the world are you doing this in such a stressful way. With or without a rental agreement, you give the tenant a 3 day notice "pay rent or quit" you serve it to her personally. If she is not home you get to post and mail it.The three day notice states where the rent is to be paid.
Then after the three days, you simply call a landlord tenant lawyer who starts an eviction. Then you get a new tenant and for heaven's sake you credit check them. They pay for it. You make sure they work where they say they do, and verify where they lived last. You don't rent to people who have trouble paying the rent/wreck the place-- unless you are a wealthy philanthropist who does not need to make mortgage payments, or you like excitement and conflict. You are actually training this tenant to be as irresponsible as possible.
My tenants pay the rent or we give them a three day notice, and move on to eviction if necessary. They understand and plan for it. REnt is not an optional activity. Neither is my mortgage or property tax.

    Bookmark   October 3, 2006 at 4:46AM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Things went off without a hitch, and I am optimistic once again.

She said she had paid 1/2 early via a money order taped to the outside door at Angie's house early (6AM) Mon morn. Angie never mentioned anything of it to me b4 I went to collect, but she is getting 'very' forgetful. Come to find out, her son had found the MO and had deposted it in her (Angie's) account, and may or may not have told her of it.

Katrina now knows that I will be collecting the rent and that it is to never be paid to Angie, or ever taped to the outside of a that asking for trouble or what?

Katrina's weekly pay goes into her account on a Wed, so I will be in touch with her about collecting it the Tues night b4 it is due. It may be a few days early, but better for her than a few days late.

We no longer have the 'ace in the hole' good renter waiting to go back into his old apt, (now Katrina's) I found out he was no longer interested, because of old memories there.
I'm thinking and hoping that going forward, that Katrina will be all right. She is at least a quiet and clean tenant.


Thanks for the post. I read a bit about the pay rent or quit and will have it ready for use if need be any time. That too should send the message, that paying one's rent is a 'serious' bill that needs paid on time.


    Bookmark   October 4, 2006 at 7:54AM
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You are a wonderful friend, very kindhearted, and possess a much greater level of tolerance than I!! Many (who are much more knowledgeable than myself) on this thread have suggested that your friend needs to have a lease agreement drawn up, specifically stating the conditions of the lease and the consequences of breaking it. I totally agree, and would only add that this might actually help the young woman to become a more responsible person as well as tenant! She needs to learn that she CAN lose her home, just as she could lose her car, utility services, or anything she doesn't pay for in a timely manner. Of course this approach would be applied to the other tenants as well. I wish you the best of luck!! :>)

    Bookmark   October 4, 2006 at 2:18PM
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Sue -

Angie never mentioned anything of it to me b4 I went to collect, but she is getting 'very' forgetful. Come to find out, her son had found the MO and had deposted it in her (Angie's) account, and may or may not have told her of it.

It sounds like your friend may need a medical assessment and perhaps a family member to oversee her properties. If she is having more and more forgetfulness, there could be serious financial problems down the line (forgetting to pay taxes, insurance, etc.)


    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 7:58AM
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Please, that nice woman needs a rental manager, she does not have the "stuff" to be a property manager.

    Bookmark   October 23, 2006 at 7:51PM
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Chemocurl zn5b/6a Indiana

Ok...I'll update this since a spammer replied and bumped it back up to page one (The spam reply got removed).

Anyway, the bad renter moved out sometime in late 2006 and I 'think' she finally got her rent caught up afterwards.

I believe it was determined my friend had early stage Alz, and her family had her moved into a small, though very nice, assisted living efficiency apartment. Her apartment house has since been sold to assist in the cost of her living expenses.


    Bookmark   July 5, 2009 at 6:08PM
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"I believe it was determined my friend had early stage Alz, and her family had her moved into a small, though very nice, assisted living efficiency apartment. Her apartment house has since been sold to assist in the cost of her living expenses."

She was fortunate to have such supportive friends and family.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 12:34PM
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