Would this be considered the height of rudeness?

neesieApril 28, 2008

My husbands side of the family is quite large. Recently I have been planning a bridal shower for a favorite neice (my daughter is in the wedding) and two other SIL's. Between the four of us and the Bride and the mother of the bride we had a heck of a time picking one date that would work for the shower.

The bride's fiance lives two hours away. The fiance's family is also giving her a shower. Ours was set for the week following THAT shower. (Actually 8 days later his sides on Sat ours on Sunday).

Yesterday one of my nosier, busy body SIL's got wind of the date (we were at yet a different shower for a different family member at Nosey's house. She informed us that it happened to be on Father's Day, which we already knew. We planned for the shower to start at 3:00 in the afternoon and didn't think that Father's Day was an all-day event. Well Nosey wouldn't hear of it! She has 2 daughters and 2 daughter-in-laws that have new babies. I know. I gave two of them a shower last year (you're welcome!) and one of them a shower this year.

In the last two years I have attended (just in Nosey's family) four weddings, four wedding showers and two baby showers (three of which I gave). I worked around the dates I was given.

I wish she could butt out of the plans I am making with the other SIL's. If Father's Day IS that important they could decline instead of guilting us into having it another day. Or here's a suggestion, have their Father's Day Gathering a week prior or later. I guess it's all in where they prioritize how close they are to the Bride.

BTW, one of the main considerations for the Bride is that we are being cornered into having it on the Sunday AFTER the Saturday of her Fiance's side. Which means she has a 2 1/2 hour drive each way and does not get to stay overnight in her fiance's town. A lot of driving and going straight to another party the next day. She is the one who preferred to do "his" shower one Saturday and ours the next weekend. In the meantime I and the other SIL's have made plans and now we can't agree on an alternate date.

Why should someone outside the party givers have a hand in which date to pick? I came to her functions when invited and altered my own plans for her kids. I guess she is used to me "rolling with the punches" and she has been known as super-bossy. This one is really ticking me off, though.

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Hi - I feel sorry for the fathers in the family, who seem to be not regarded as all that important. I'd never have scheduled a shower (or other event) on Fathers' Day. How would you react if something like this was scheduled on Mothers' Day? I think it's interesting that you and your other SILs are dissing the bride's father, despite the fact that he and his wife are most likely paying for the wedding.

But - that wasn't your question. I think that, if I were an invitee to the shower, I'd politely decline, indicating that I would be spending the day with my husband and/or father, honoring them on their special day. Either that or I'd go begrudgingly, feeling as though I didn't want to be at the shower and feeling some resentment. Of course I wouldn't show it, but I wouldn't be happy. Don't you want your guests to be happy? So yes, I think your "nosey" SIL should just decide what she wants to do and let you know.

Now don't get me wrong; I do think that lots of these holidays are "Hallmark-created", but heck - it's there, and why shouldn't they have a special day? Again, would you so easily give away Mothers' Day?

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 3:17PM
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I know that sometimes people accidentally pick a day like Fathers Day because they are looking at the calendar and don't see that they have anything else planned. Some people have afternoon BBQs for Fathers Day, or family dinner. The real problem would be people who say they will show up and then at the last minute they realize they have Daddy's BBQ, or whatever to go to. I have been to showers that were sparsely attended with lots of food because it was scheduled on a day like Father's Day. So I think thats the biggest problem you might have.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 3:40PM
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I would just tell the rude sister in law.....sorry....that's the date we find works out best...
And not say another word.
Any day you pick will be some family's special gathering.....
Sorry but I never consider it mandatory that my kids spend all maother's day with me and really don't know anyone who does an all day thing for Father's day.
Linda C

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 4:26PM
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suzie,first of all the brides father was happy to have it scheduled on Father's Day. He is my husbands twin and we know them very, very well.

Father's Day has never been more than a morning event (or Hallmark event) for the people that I know. We had an extremely hard time due to athletic schedules and other wedding doings before we could come up with Father's Day (did I mention 3:00?) I wish she would politely decline, that is what I prefer. Now we feel obligated to pick another date which is going to end up inconveniencing the bride to be. She is studying for finals in college and commuting long distances and doesn't need the extra hassle.

I'm more of a mind with Linda C. But one of the other SIL's who was planning this with me pretty much gave the overbearing Father's Day Celebrating SIL the green light on changing our plans.

I am also doing some kitchen re-modeling and it will stress me if the date is earlier, rather than later. And later is worse for the bride because of trying to keep the schedule clear for last minute emergencies.

Thanks for letting me vent.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 4:49PM
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If you're doing it for the bride and that date works for her being that she has other commitments for other priorities (exams, etc.), then I wouldn't change it.

You can't start changing dates to accommodate every family member! Nosey can either attend or not. It's her choice.

I also agree that Father's Day or Mother's Day is not an all-day event.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 6:40PM
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Ok, then I'm wrong for those that have responded. We go to church, so our family celebrations start sometime around 1:00 or so, after getting home from church, changing, etc. So it's not an all-day event - - - it's an afternoon event because that's when the gatherings occur. I see that I was thinking of what our (extended) family does, and that doesn't apply to your situation.

It seems that you've got the answers you were looking for, and that your SIL can make her choice.

    Bookmark   April 28, 2008 at 7:01PM
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I don't really think the SIL was being rude I think she was trying to convince you that your date was a really bad choice; which I totally agree with. I'm not sure what everyone else does for Father's day.. but in the morning we make my husband breakfast, then we'll do something with my dad in the afternoon... then in the evening we do something with my husband's father. Most of my friends do the same sort of thing. I would think most people at least have their afternoon filled -- you don't really expect an extended family of 20 to change their regular Father's Days plans because one person has a shower? I really think you're going to put your guests in a really tough position and I think you may be disappointed with the turn out or they may be resentful.

I would suggest you pick a different date even if one or two of you can not make (not the worse thing in the world) rather than choose Father's Day. How's that Saturday work; have you considered a weeknight gathering? If your house isn't ready, have it at a restaurant.

I really can't see attending a shower for someone on Father's or Mother's Day unless I was very close to them and in the party... In other words, the bride's father and you may not care, but the guests' father's/husband's probably will. So you may be close enough to her to give up your Father's Day, but I'm not sure most of the others being invited will want to. Why don't you call a couple of friends that would be invited but aren't so very close to the bride for their opinion on the matter?

I would highly suggest that you be sure to note on the invite that it is Father's Day just so you don't have a lot of last minute cancellations.

Good luck with the turnout; but I really think you need to show your guests more respect. Most probably have other obligations on Father's Day.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 12:57AM
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We've never really made a big deal of Father's Day, or Mother's Day, for that matter. Really, every day should be Father's and Mother's Day. To be honest, I don't think I know anyone who makes a big deal of it either. Perhaps your other guests besides overbearing SIL are of a similar mind. I'm sure they will tell you if there's a clash. If you find too many of your invitees are crying off because of Father's Day, THAT'S the time to change the date. Otherwise you could be putting yourselves to a whole lot of stress over something that turns out not to have been an issue- except to overbearing SIL (and frankly it sounds like no great loss anyway).

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 2:24AM
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Is your son marrying his first cousin or step-sister?

About the Father's day, I will echo the others, as we too always celebrate mother's day and father's day, with the in-laws and cousins, and since they live out of town, it is always in the afternoon extending into the evening. I would either decline, or resent that you chose that day for a shower. It seems as though you are putting what is convenient for you and those close to you, above your guests.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 8:29AM
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I wouldn't intentionally schedule an event for mother's day or father's day, because I'm sure it would limit the number of people to attend. I would never attend an event on one of those days, either. Mornings/afternoons spent with my own children/spouse and afternoons/evenings with my own parents. They ARE all-day events for us. Good luck, but I'd change the date if I wanted a successful party...

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 10:45AM
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It's a matter of choice. If that's the only date that works then so be it. Mind you, you better be ready for more people to decline than might normally.

Father's Day is not an all day event in our home but it is a family late afternoon/dinner event. We usually BBQ and the whole extended family joins in. Having a shower invite on Father's Day would put me in an awkward position. I would choose to accept, or not, based on how close I was to the bride but I wouldn't be happy making the choice.

I would never purposely plan a shower on any special event day unless I absolutely had to. Why complicate what is already complicated enough?

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 1:53PM
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I think there are two separate issues here. One is whether the non-hosting SIL has a right to dictate the date or a change in date, and the other is the fact that the shower is planned for Father's Day.

Addressing the Father's Day issue first, I agree that planning a shower on a day like that is going to reduce the number of attendees. You say, "Father's Day has never been more than a morning event (or Hallmark event) for the people that I know. " Are those people the only people you are inviting? Because I would venture to guess that that is not true for the majority of folks. Unless the shower guest list consists of family only, you have to take into consideration that for many people Father's Day is more than just spending a couple of hours with dad in the morning. It's just a fact, planning a shower on a holiday, even if it's a holiday you don't celebrate or take seriously, involves the risk that many will decline.

The second issue of the SIL trying to dictate the date of the shower is pretty unacceptable. Better would be if she'd suggested that maybe FD isn't the best day for a shower for reasons similar to what's been said above, and that it would be a good idea to reconsider. But demanding that you switch, well, I'd almost want to keep it that day just to spite her.

I hope you can find a better day that will accomodate everyone involved, and that the shower is successful!

    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 5:44PM
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I agree with those who have expressed the opinion that Father's Day isn't an optimal choice of times. Father's Day morning is Church & it usually runs a bit late because there's a special coffee/cookies event due to Father's Day. Then, our kids & grands arrive for a BBQ in the afternoon. We would not have even eaten by 3:00 p.m.

Personally, I'd decline the shower invitation because I would choose to spend the entire day with DH & because the responsibility of putting together DH & DS's Father's Day BBQ falls mostly on me so I'd be busy.

If you could push the shower back a week I believe you'll have a better turnout.


    Bookmark   April 29, 2008 at 5:57PM
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Personally, I'd be thrilled if Bossy declined so she could celebrate Father's Day (just don't forget to send neice the gift, tee hee!)

The 5 of us who planned that original date had other considerations: work schedules, 2 of them are coaches, several guests play on sb leagues two of the weeknights, I am having major oral surgery (dental implants) 3 days before Bossies preferred date, and a Neice who is long distance in the Air Force and part of the wedding party can only make the Fathers Day date. So it's not like we just picked that date to PO our guests. After 30 years of being related to them all 5 of us didn't know of any of them EVER making plans other than a morning breakfast.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 1:54PM
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You're still not getting it. It doesn't really matter what is convienent to you, you really need to consider your guests. They will get your invitation and many of them will consider it to be "the height of rudeness". I feel sorry for the bride.

I have been to a party recently where not all the hosts could make it, but they still helped prepared food, bought gifts for the games, etc. If a host has to sit out, so be it. You really need to consider your guests a little more. This isn't about Bossy or one bridesmaid. A good host considers her guests.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 2:33PM
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Carla35, I wonder if it is more important to cater to Aunt Bossy or the Bride to Be? I know you have to consider the guests, but the majority of them were AOK. When it was Bossy's daughters getting married she didn't consult any of us on ANYTHING. We were just expected to be there.

My point is that she could just get the invitation and decline. But if she's not involved in the planning why should she be allowed to re-write our plans? One of the more important factors, besides the brides travel plans is that many of us have not seen our Air Force Neice in a year and that is the only date she can make it, too. Can't please everyone but I'd rather please the ones with sugar than the ones with vinegar.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 5:23PM
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Apparently you, the bride and others giving the shower have agreed that this date works best for you. You probably will have less attendance, but I'm sure you considered that and are okay with it.

So the only issue is whether to change it.

No way would I do that--I recall changing a date for an annual Christmas progressive dinner years ago for a woman who had a conflict.

The lady made such a big deal about wanting to be there that everyone okayed the change--but actually, two ladies kept quiet, knowing they wouldn't be able to attend. As it turned out, the lady that made such a fuss didn't attend, either, she had "something else" she chose to do, so three ladies and their husbands didn't attend the dinner.

I learned a lesson from that--the hostess is the one that dicates the date and circumstances of the event. If a guest cannot attend, they should politely decline. In my opinion, a guest is unbelievable rude to try to get the hostess to change a date just for them.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 5:37PM
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Catering or not to Aunt Bossy has nothing to do with it. I would totally just leave her out of the picture and quit worrying about what she says or thinks. Although I personally would change her name from Aunt Bossy to Aunt Common Sense.

Father's Day is a bad day for a shower, period. Don't let personality conflicts/favorties make you loose sight of that. Obviously, sometimes things can't be helped or dates can't be changed. Although it sounds like invites didn't go out yet. Just don't make a bad decision or decline exploring other options based solely on the fact that you don't like Bossy.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 7:18PM
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Father's Day is only a bad day for a shower if the other guests (besides Bossy) traditionally do something big for Father's Day. Since you seem to indicate that your other invitees have no problem with it, go for it. It is a mistake to assume your family's traditions are a hard and fast rule for everyone else. Not everyone makes a big deal of Father's Day.

    Bookmark   April 30, 2008 at 11:39PM
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I personally wouldn't plan a shower on any date on the calendar that has a holiday attached to it. Just because of what you're going through.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 8:24AM
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If the majority of the guests are AOK with the date, it's in accordance with the bride's travel plans, the only date that the niece that you all haven't seen in a year can attend, etc., then don't worry about it. Maybe just move the time from 3pm to 1pm so that if some people are having a BBQ dinner, then they can leave at 3 or 4 pm. I don't think being away from "Dad" for a couple hours is a bad thing. The majority of Dads here celebrate with a special breakfast, spend the day golfing with other Dads, then come back home around supper time for a few beers and BBQ (around 6pm).

    Bookmark   May 1, 2008 at 2:28PM
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Haven't heard from neesie in a couple of days, but after reading this thread again and the newer posts, I think that neesie simply wants to vent and get agreement that her awful SIL is out of line; she's not asking us to chime in on whether Father's Day is a bad day for a shower (as I did). That's Ok to want that support! Some have given it, others haven't. That's what makes the world go 'round. You simply don't like her, and she probably doesn't like you. Again, that's Ok.

I know that celebrations are different in different families and in different areas. Here, my experience is that many families get together as a group for a cook-out (aka barbeque) and it's an afternoon event. I simply can't imagine saying to my hosts or guests "Sorry, gotta go to a bridal shower in the middle of our party". But again, that's not the quesion. Sorry for going back to that.

neesie, IMO, your SIL should just opt to not attend. I think that's what you want, right (as long as she sends the gift, as you said)? That's probably what she wants, too.

I sincerely hope your shower turns out to be wonderful.

    Bookmark   May 2, 2008 at 11:47AM
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Maybe I didn't make it clear, one of the reasons I needed to vent and what really got me upset.

I was a GUEST at Bossy's home for another neice's shower when she practaclly jumped over her kitchen island when I arrived and yelled at me, all the while sneering about my choice of dates. The date was chosen by 5 of us, b ut I took the bullet for the group.

In the negotiation class I just completed the first rule is always "TIME AND PLACE." I thought it the height of rudeness for her, the hostess, to attack me, the gift bearing guest that just drove 45 minutes to her house. I did not have a good time at the party and now begrudge inviting her to MY place. However, I would not pull that kind of unbecoming behavior in anyone's presence. But it surely does not make me like her at all.

Although, in the meantime, the father of the bride thinks I should have her over but give her a broomstick to ride home on.

And yes, I hear that some of you DO celebrate Father's Day but in my almost 30 years in this family it has not been a big day with us. We prize our summer weekends after being cooped up all winter. And Mother's Day ALWAYS falls on Fishing Opener, go figure.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2008 at 9:33PM
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Oh and carla35, "a good host considers her guests".

My first preference was always for a week night. Bossy's four daughters plus another neice all play softball (and have practices) so the planning committee ruled those out right away.

And a "good host considers her guests" does this follow for the event as well as choosing the date? Because I did not feel very welcome at the shower at Bossy's house afer getting a tongue lashing. Glad my only "sin" was under-estimating Father's Day.

    Bookmark   May 4, 2008 at 9:38PM
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Guess I committed the Ultimate in rudeness -- I got married on Father's Day! It was the most convenient day for my DH and me, and we did not even take into consideration whether it would disrupt other guest's celebrations. We were only concerned with the fact that it was the only weekend day that we could get married and actually have a few days off afterwards for a honeymoon. How selfish of us!!!

    Bookmark   May 7, 2008 at 4:58PM
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I guess I did the same thing -- we got married on July 4th. My Atlanta cousin, who always ran in the Peachtree Road Race on July 4th, teased me about making him miss it. We chose it because we wanted to have an evening wedding, which is hard to do in the summer with a Jewish wedding (can't start Sat. night until more than an hour after sunset), but as July 4th was a Sunday that year, everyone had Monday off, so we could do an evening wedding on a Sunday.

I do think there is a difference between a wedding and a shower. But I don't think it was "the height of rudeness," either, just not the most convenient day for many families.

Anyway, this string is yet another example of there being no one-size-fits all answer. I wouldn't have thought that Father's Day would be so inconvenient; had I been invited to such a shower, we just would have celebrated at dinner time or something -- it's not an all-day celebration for my family, either. But I see here that many posters have traditions of spending most or all of the day. Perhaps it's more common with extended families in the same town, so keeping to the same type and time of party every year keeps it easy for everyone to plan their time?

    Bookmark   May 7, 2008 at 10:46PM
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I personally wouldn't think having a wedding on July 4th was rude at all... same with New Years Eve... those days are Holidays, but generally not considered "Family" Holidays. They are more "Party" Holidays.. so celebrating a wedding with friends on those occasions would be fun! It's not someone else's special day that you are intruding upon. Big Difference...

    Bookmark   May 7, 2008 at 11:47PM
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I don't consider having a wedding shower, regardless of the day, "intruding" on anyone else's special day. You just can't make everyone happy all the time. I learned a long time ago to do the best you can in these situations--the agreeable people understand and either attend an event, or don't, but they don't take umbrage and become offended if the date of an event isn't convenient for them. To do so calls attention to themselves and that in and of itself is poor manners.

I don't know of any host or hostess who doesn't want good attendance at an event, but in the end they have to schedule it for when it's most convenient for the them and the honoree. For anyone to complain about the date is just tacky, in my opinion.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2008 at 2:05PM
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Many weddings occur during the summer months & there are a finite # of weekends leading up to those weddings, which may include Mother's Day, Father's Day, & a whole lot of soccer games. If the date works for you & the guest of honor, it is up to your invited guests whether or not they will come. If it doesn't, they can express their regrets, send a nice note &/or gift, & if it REALLY bothers them, they may host their own shower for the bride or groom to be.

You are doing a thoughtful thing for your niece & don't let anyone convince you otherwise! Go ahead w/ your plans & have a happy day!...

    Bookmark   May 12, 2008 at 5:37PM
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"You are doing a thoughtful thing for your niece & don't let anyone convince you otherwise! Go ahead w/ your plans & have a happy day"

That's what I thought too!

Frankly with 4 kids our weekends/summers/holidays are usually booked well before they begin and if Father's Day was the day for a shower...I would shower my husband with love in the morning, invite the other guys over to our house for the afternoon and go shower the bride to be with love too. If I had plans that were more important to me or my immediate family I would bring the gift and a dish of food over the day before and send my regrets.

    Bookmark   May 13, 2008 at 2:21PM
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I, too, got married on Father's Day! My dad said it was the best present I could have given him. In the Russian church, Sunday's the only day for weddings, so we didn't have too many choices.

Most fathers I know would welcome a little quiet time on their "day". When else can they nap?

    Bookmark   June 8, 2008 at 12:13PM
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What happened to the expectation of gentleness and affection toward the members of a large, complicated family around an event that always involves scheduling? An invitation is just that...and one can either attend or not, and the idea that someone would raise a ruckus over receiving an invitation for a time they don't like, instead of being grateful to be asked, regretful at not being able to attend, and gracious about the complications, is, frankly, appalling.
The only acceptable responses to an invitation to a shower are either, "Thank you so much, I'd love to come - can I help in some way?", or, "Oh, I am so sorry, but I have another commitment then, and I am so disappointed to be missing your lovely party." Period. That's it. Anything the least bit snarky or unpleasant is the "height of rudeness," because good manners are really about consideration and thoughtfulness toward other people, appreciation for the effort that goes into entertaining, and gratitude for any show of generosity or extension of hospitality.
So when you make a nice invitation, particularly when you have gone to a lot of trouble to try to make it convenient, and somebody goes for your throat, you just raise your pretty little eyebrows in mild surprise, smile sweetly, and say, "Oh, dear, that's too bad, we will miss you!", and don't give it another ounce of worry.
Sorry. I got all huffy. But, really!!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2008 at 11:01PM
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