WaterFurnace 5 or 7? ClimateMaster?

pschusterSeptember 4, 2013

Hi everyone,
Thanks so much for all the great posts in this forum.
We have decided to go geothermal. I have 2 quotes, both about the same amount:
1. ClimateMaster Tranquility 30
2. WaterFurnace Series 5.

I know many posts say the contractor is more impt than the equipment, but I think both my contractors have about the same amount of experience/expertise. So was thinking I should go with the better equipment. Have read that WF has some issues with formicary corrosion, but they seem to be industry leaders. I haven't heard as much about Climatemaster.

Also, haven't checked into how much more it would cost, but do you think the 41 EER (!!!) makes it worth it to go to the WaterFurnace Series 7? Has anyone recently decided between the Series 5 & Series 7 & wants to share thoughts?

Thanks, in advance, for any help.
T

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fsq4cw

I would go with the most efficient system, which in this case would be the Waterfurnace Series 7. I would want to know if the flow center will be variable speed as well and if so how will it maintain âÂÂturbulent flowâ at the reduced speeds.

Also note that the published efficiency specs will not be met without a properly designed, installed and commissioned ground loop. EVERY detail is important!

Cost is dependent not only on equipment but size of HDPE pipe, depth of borehole, number of boreholes, parallel or series configuration of boreholes, indoor or buried headers, type of header, on and on and on.

Mistakes in the ground are very expensive to repair.

DonâÂÂt assume anything; become your own expert!

IâÂÂm sure youâÂÂll love your geo system.

SR

Here is a link that might be useful: International Ground Source Heat Pump Association at Oklahoma State University

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 12:15PM
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pschuster

Thanks fsq4cw. Glad to hear that it's the ground installation that matters most. I have an IGSHPA-certified well driller who will install the loops. Not feeling quite as confidant about the contractors selling the equipment, so I'm trying to work a lot of it out myself.

Why don't you think anyone ever mentioned Direct Exchange (no wells, copper piping, etc.) to me? This forum was the 1st place I had even heard of it. Seems like it might be most efficient?
Thanks again!
T

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 1:40PM
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fsq4cw

Very few installers are familiar with proper DX installation. At this point I would not advise installing DX even though I know it can work very well. We have a Nordic DX-45 Direct Exchange geothermal heat pump that is 10 years old, has never needed a service call and has never broken down.

As great as this system has been if I were to do it over again today I would install the Waterfurnace Series 7 all variable speed. This type of conventional ground loop (liquid) will be easier to diagnose and deal with if there is a problem. I would install the headers within the mechanical room for the same reason.

Shana Tova (if thatâÂÂs in order)

SR

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 4:46PM
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pschuster

fsq4cw, just wanted to say thanks once again. You've been super helpful here, and in your many posts on other threads that have taught me much about geothermal. Checking the price difference on the WaterFurnace 7 vs 5 now. Do you think this issue of "formicary corrosion" of the coil, causing refrigerant to leak, is specifically a WaterFurnace problem? or do they all have this potential problem?
Thanks again.
T

    Bookmark   September 4, 2013 at 10:07PM
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fsq4cw

Waterfurnace claims they have rectified the "formicary corrosion" problem. I would recommend discussing a 10-year parts and labor warranty - from Waterfurnace, as this has been a problem and as there are several technologies in 7 Series that while not entirely new are new to Waterfurnace products and relatively new to the residential market.

One of these technologies that is offered in the 7 Series and not in 5 Series is âÂÂElectronic Expansion Valvesâ (EEV). Without getting into the weeds, this is a big step up from Thermostatic Expansion Valves (TXV) and in my opinion IS a BIG deal! ItâÂÂs not commonly found in residential equipment at this point in time but it will become more common in the future.

It is my personal opinion that if youâÂÂre going in - go ALL in! Install the best. IâÂÂm never sorry when I install the best. IâÂÂm only sorry if I didnâÂÂt when I had the chance. I get over the money part very quickly - but I know IâÂÂll NEVER forgive myself for cutting corners if it doesnâÂÂt work out and it usually doesn't. But thatâÂÂs just meâ¦

BECOME YOUR OWN EXPERT - but KNOW what you donâÂÂt know!

IMO

SR

    Bookmark   September 5, 2013 at 1:05AM
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TinaD2014

We are also looking at Waterfurnace series 5 vs series 7 and curious whether you decided to go with the 7. We have a not-quite 10 year old single-stage climate master that has been nothing but trouble (pumps, coil, condenser) so are looking to replace it.

    Bookmark   January 26, 2014 at 12:57PM
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