Choosing the right high-end appliances

aenderDecember 30, 2013

We just bought a condo and are redoing the kitchen and want to put in high-end appliances. The only thing we are keeping is the 30" Sub-zero. We need to be fully electric and we need a wall oven with convection microwave and warmer, induction cooktop and dishwasher. In the running is Wolf, Miele, Thermador and maybe Gaggenau. Thermador has a very good deal to get oven and cooktop with DW thrown in, but many posts here complain about Thermador; it's reliability and service. The two things I'm looking for is which brands are best for each appliance and I have to choose between going with either a 30" oven and 30" cooktop or a 27" oven and 36" cooktop (space limitations). Been doing lots of research and still unsure direction to take.

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For the dishwasher, I would say Miele is the leading brand, particularly if you run lots of crystal and china through, based on the postings on this website. I bought the very lowest featured Miele a few weeks back and it was way better than my older high end GE. Priced from $900 up to about $2700 I think, definitely not low end.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 10:12AM
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Thanks. I've always felt Miele was the best for dishwashers. If I go that route I'm left with the brand to go with for an oven and which induction cooktop is best in show as well as flexibility of cookware sizes.

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 1:48PM
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as u read most of the threads here, mostly everyone is pleased with their induction cooktop no matter the brand...

for most i think it comes down to hob & control placement and features....

i have the miele 36", 2 1/2 years now and love it.. have had no problems,, fingers crossed..
responsive and extremely easy to clean....

i also have miele DW and love that also

only u can decide what works for you as far as oven and cooktop size....depends on what u cook and how often basically...

for reference, i have miele speed oven, no knobs & wolf "e" series 30" oven, both have performed flawlessly, again fingers crossed

good luck!! :)

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 2:28PM
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Just commenting on a few features of my Bosch 500 series induction cooktop that I find most useful (it's been in service less than two weeks). Some of these are probably available on all higher end models, but they are things to look for - 1) individual hob timers - great to be able to set something like rice and have it go off at the designated time, 2) the medium size hob (mine is only 30", 4 burners) is at the front left. That's the size I use most frequently, and it's a very convenient location. I also like the look of the front and back stainless strip, but that's just my preferred aesthetic.

Everyone says Miele is the best dishwasher (I've never heard anyone who has one not rave about it). We decided we didn't want to spend that much and got an 800 series Bosch which so far has been flawless (and the dishes are sparkling clean, which I can't say for any previous dishwasher I've had).

    Bookmark   December 31, 2013 at 2:42PM
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So, one thing I keep hearing is Miele for DW. When it comes to induction cooktops I'm down to Wolf or Thermador. Does anyone have any experience with either and if so how they feel. Looking at either 30" or 36". Thermador has the 36" Freedom induction which allows you to put any size pan anywhere, with a limit of 4 pans. This sounds great but at $5K that's like $1,500 more than the 36" Wolf. On the oven front who makes the best?

    Bookmark   January 1, 2014 at 11:08AM
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I took pastry classes using Thermador wall ovens, I must say..every baked beautifully. It's unfortunate their reliability issues scared me away when I bought my appliances last year. You can't go wrong with Wolf. If rotisserie is important to you, then Gagg, Miele or Capital.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2014 at 11:54AM
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" Posted by jcmjcm
You can't go wrong with Wolf. "

As a owner of a Wolf DF range, I can say you can go very wrong with Wolf. Search blue chipping and in my case it is with the DF range. My oven is chipped to bare metal after a little over four years. A very poor investment. We are looking to replace it because it is dangerous to have glass shards flaking off. Repairs would only be guaranteed for a year and they will not even give me a fixed estimate for repair. Labor starts at $800. The new ovens have a removable bottom so repair will be less costly so if you go this route make sure you have that. Range oven liners are still one piece.

    Bookmark   January 1, 2014 at 3:32PM
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Three days ago, a Wolf appliance salesperson (pre-sale) tells me that those issues with the blue chipping and fragmenting were resolved years ago. The party line is the new models do not have this defect. He seemed to be indicating this was a 4 year old problem. Is that reasonable? And to cover all possibilities he also suggested that a person twho purchased a Wolf oven relatively recently and experienced this defect likely received an oven that had been in some distributor's inventory for quite a while.

Is this BS?

    Bookmark   January 2, 2014 at 6:48AM
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For what it's worth one of my best friends is an appliance repair person and I've picked his brain probably 5 times/week for the past few months about what wall oven we should buy to replace the current broken one.

He said that honestly no one makes appliances like they used to. That way back when, a family would save up and spend quite a bit on a really well crafted piece (whether that be a couch or a fridge) and that it would last a lifetime because it was so well made. He said that over the years everyone just wants products to be cheaper and cheaper. He said the end result is parts/items that are made overseas that aren't going to last as long.

i.e. my parents still have the washer/dryer combo they received as a wedding present 33 years ago and it works great. My friend estimated my LG front load combo might last 8-10 years max.

He told me that quality control issues were about the same across the board and that was why you see so many negative reviews of every single brand out there. He's serviced everything under the sun and told me just to pick what I liked. If I am lucky it won't give me that many problems, but that one brand isn't going to have an overwhelming quality advantage over the other.

It's so frustrating.

    Bookmark   January 2, 2014 at 10:45AM
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I can comment on two items:

1. Dishwasher -- I went will an 800 plus series Bosch dishwasher and have been really pleased -- quiet, cleans great, love the third rack.

2. I'd choose a 36" cook top over 30" and get the 27" oven. I guess it depends on where you do most of your cooking -- I do a lot of cook top cooking and only a little oven cooking (and when I do it is usually in my Miele speed oven).

    Bookmark   January 2, 2014 at 10:15PM
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I have the 36 wolf induction.
It is beautiful and still looks brand new after close to 2 years.
-Did I say beautiful?
-Cooks evenly
-Has lots of settings
-I like the hob arrangement, although my hood only has a fan on the left side and the largest burner is on the back right. (I hope to replace the hood one day as this was one of the mistakes as I learned of her made in my kitchen)
-Large hob size
-Powerful independent burner
-I have used the Wolf to cook just about everything.
-I even used it to slow cook a pot roast! I put a probe into the vessel and monitor the temperature throughout the day, it held a perfect temperature.

-Hard to see hob rings(but one reason I bought it was because you can't see the rings.
-Learning curve I would recommend that you go to a Wolf demonstration center. The power levels on each of the hobs is not the same by design.
-There is some clicking and a bit of buzzing especially when the pants are cold or they multilayer pan is noisier than a single layer pan. There are some people who claim that their brand of induction unit does not buzz. One garden web user posted a YouTube video claiming that there Thermidor did not buzz. It sounded just like mine so maybe my hearing is more sensitive
-There is no bridge unit, although the rep said you could probably bridge it as long as you don't go the controls. I have not tried this.
-There is not an independent timer for each burner, so the burners will not turn off automatically. I believe they miele has this feature if it is something you would like.

I am sure I can think of more things but at least a start for you.

I apologize for any predictive text errors as I did this from my mini iPad at the crack of dawn and my eyes aren't awake yet.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2014 at 6:40AM
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Appreciate all the comments. I'm slowly narrowing my choices down. As I commented before I am going with the Miele DW for sure. Induction cooktop choices are either the 30" Miele; which offers the 11" hob (unlike the 30" Wolf) or go for broke with the 36" Wolf.
Ovens. Two choices. The Thermador 30" combi (oven/MW/warmer) or go complete separates and if I do I'd go with either the 27" or 30" Miele Chef series, Miele warmer and MW is up in the air. Anyone have the Termador combi or experience with Miele ovens?
Now, for MW I'm reading lots about all the various configurations; plain MW, convection MW, Speed Oven (Miele) and then there is the Advantium. Can anyone offer any thoughts when it comes to these options.

    Bookmark   January 3, 2014 at 11:46AM
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Love my advantium.
I matched it with a wolf oven

    Bookmark   January 3, 2014 at 8:21PM
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