We are getting snow and brick-to-shingle flashing isn't up

threeapplesDecember 24, 2012

We are having copper flashing installed on the valleys of our roof and the areas where the gabled part of the roof meet an adjacent brick wall. Is it very problematic that the flashing isn't up with 5 inches of snow on the way? How will we know if there is an issue?

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greendesigns_gw

Flashing should be done before the roofing as it goes underneath it and in conjunction with it, not on top of it. You'll need to go up into the attic to see if moisture is making it's way into the space. But yes, this is a problem that shouldn't have happened. ANY builder, no matter the experience level with whatever material or design goals, should know how to properly flash a roof and windows. This is pure incompetence at a very basic level with zero excuse for it happening.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 10:18AM
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threeapples

In NE Ohio all the homes have flashing on top of the shingles. I have heard there are two ways to do this, but just want to know if snow will cause a problem.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 10:28AM
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Sophie Wheeler

It may look like it's "on top", but it should be woven in with the shingles and HAS to be underneath them to work properly. This is a CRITICAL error that will lead to moisture damage in the home.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 11:10AM
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mcclelland

I am from NE ohio, and our home, along with all the homes around us do not have flashing on top of the shingles.

Do you have shingles on the roof yet?

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 11:20AM
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threeapples

Yes, we have had shingles for months. I will talk to the Gus installing the flashing. I know they are using copper screws or nails to attach the flashing g to the brick. Maybe they will lift the shingles up while they do it?

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 1:25PM
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worthy

It's possible that the builder is using a closed and cut valley, where the valley material is totally covered by shingles.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 2:25PM
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energy_rater_la

impossible to know what is going on.
maybe a picture or two to show us?
flashing never goes over shingles.
just may look that way from a distance.

greendesign, lots of builders don't flash properly.
many threads on this and other forums about lack
of properly flashed roof, window & doors.

OP flashing goes under shingles.
take a few pictures & post them.

best of luck.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 8:14PM
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threeapples

You can sort of see the copper flashing up before they were going to install it. So this plan is wrong?

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 10:49PM
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threeapples

So this is wrong then?

Here is a link that might be useful: Copper flashing

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 10:57PM
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kirkhall

I can't see well enough on yours, or any of the pics in the link, except the second picture in the link (the little one of a valley).

What you CAN see there is that the roofing shingles are cut and the flashing is Under them. that flashing is not on top of those.

I'll admit, in a few of those other pictures, it appears there is copper flashing on top of the asphalt roofing, but it also looks as though those roofs might have been woven valleys (specifically 4th picture down on the linked picture set).

Looking again at the first picture of the linked set, I do that that too is cut shingles that are on top of the flashing.

I can't see well enough in your picture of YOUR home what they look like they are headed towards on your roof.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 11:10PM
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threeapples

The area between our brick and shingles has quite a bit of caulking so there is no way the flashing will be able to go under the shingles. What on earth do we do now, have them rip it up? Will it pose problems this way if it goes on top of the shingles?

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 11:23PM
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Sophie Wheeler

The ONLY way that flashing keeps water out is if it's under the shingles. You have issues. Issues that can cause leaks and create mold and rot.

And would you happen to have any pics of the windows being installed as well? Because if they did the roof wrong, I'd bet they did the windows incorrectly as well.

    Bookmark   December 24, 2012 at 11:49PM
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niteshadepromises

If you check your own link (not of your own home) you will see a picture of them actually on a roof doing the installation. That pic alone pretty much sums it up, you can see (assuming you look through that lovely roofers legs...) the entire extent of the flashing, then below where the shingles are already installed you see less, but clearly can now understand the process, its there before and as the shingles are installed!

Merry Xmas GW!

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 5:40AM
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threeapples

We had flashing installed above all the windows, my husband made sure of it.

So we need our shingles taken off to put the copper beneath?

What about the photos I linked that show flashing on top of the shingles in the valleys? That's not correct?

Merry Christmas!

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 8:12AM
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rollie

I cant tell for sure, but there appears to be 4 copper step flashings at the bottom of the roof to wall connection, and then none above..

Its not uncommon to cut these in at a later date, and they may have just sealed it up for now, with full intentions of completing it later..

They may have just ran out of good weather, as this is quite detail oriented work to get it right.

Check with your contractor and find out what the scoop is..

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 9:44AM
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threeapples

Yes, there are only a few steps of flashing put up so far. They said they need copper screws or something and were going to come back to finish. These people are not very reliable. Rollie, you say it's ok to add these finishing touches later--that means you think it's ok for this to go on on top of the shingles?

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 7:13PM
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kirkhall

I think the problem is, you keep saying they are "on top" of the shingles. That would be wrong.

But, they could be visible, and properly installed, step-wise, under the shingles. So, which is it?

A closer view of the 4 they have installed would really help us out here, to help you know if it is correct or not. The picture you have of your house just isn't close enough for us to see/say. Get up on a ladder, or get a better lens on your camera, and get a closer view for us.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 7:54PM
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energy_rater_la

flashing doesn't to ON TOP of shingles.
why not have a conversation with the
roofer?
ask him to explain why flashing was started
and not finished.
the roof to the left of the picture would
also require flashing.
"The area between our brick and shingles has quite a bit of caulking so there is no way the flashing will be able to go under the shingles. What on earth do we do now, have them rip it up? Will it pose problems this way if it goes on top of the shingles?"

flashing takes place of caulk.
sometimes shingles have to be removed.
a compentent roofer can do this with few
problems.

remember flashing goes under shingles.

hiya Rollie!

best of luck.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 8:21PM
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threeapples

I will take a better photo with my camera tomorrow and post back. I will also call the builder to get details from the roofer.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 8:46PM
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lyfia

In the link you posted the flashing is underneath the shingles. It is an optical illusion that makes it look like it is not due to the nice straight cuts of the shingles. The flashing is exposed in between, but it goes under the shingles on the sides.

    Bookmark   December 25, 2012 at 10:09PM
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live_wire_oak

Better pics will help. But it does look as though that end piece of copper facing the camera is just sitting on top of the shingles. If that's how they plan to do all of it, then it's beyond a waste of time and materials. This is a full STOP, DO NOT PASS GO, type of error that would require an immediate "meeting of the minds" that would involve someone packing up their bags and leaving the site.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 10:37AM
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threeapples

Our architect just called saying all flashing went in under the shingles (or he said he would be surprised if it didn't) and that what they are doing now is counter-flashing. I'll post pics later, but is counter-flashing on top ok?

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 3:34PM
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threeapples

The builder said we are having terminology confusion. What is going in now is counter flashing and it is normal to have it visible. There was a foil flashing put in the valleys, though photos suggest it did not get installed in the areas where shingles met vertical brick walls, so I will have to figure out what happened there. Any comments on counter flashing?

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 4:08PM
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live_wire_oak

Counter flashing is applied on top of the step flashing and is inserted into a niche in the brick. There appears to be no step flashing at all where the roof meets the brick, and it also doesn't appear that the flashing material is being inserted into the brick.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 4:16PM
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energy_rater_la

I wondered when I saw she said flashing
was to be attached with brass screws/nails.
I've never seen that. to attach into mortor
or brick tap con screws...but for flashing??
didn't sound right to me.

the detail posted above shows what I see.
flashing into chimeny, not screwed onto
chimney..where it would leak.

best to get someone on the job to evaluate
what is happening. having someone on site
to actually see what is going on is better
than half descriptions.

best of luck

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 4:28PM
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threeapples

We spoke to our builder and he said there is step flashing there, it's just hard to see. He also said the copper would be inserted into the brick, though I didn't quite get what he said about how that would happen and I wonder what they'll do since the mortar has been cured for months. Any ideas how they tuck it in there? I'm calmer now, but want him to verify all of this for us after the snow melts.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 8:52PM
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rollie

It looked like the step flashings were there, but just a few counterflashings were installed.

I would guess that they will cut the mortar joint and insert the counterflashings..

I do wonder on the roof to brick wall connections if there is a thru wall membrane flashing though..

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 9:04PM
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threeapples

Rollie, what is a thru wall flashing?

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 10:29PM
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threeapples

Rollie, how do I know if we have thru wall flashing? The brick was put in front of tyvek and there was flashing above all doors and windows.

    Bookmark   December 26, 2012 at 10:31PM
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rollie

A thru wall flashing is a metal or membrane flashing that integrates into the weather resistive barrier to bring water that gets behind the brick back to the surface.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 9:28AM
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live_wire_oak

DO NOT take the builder's word for what is happening. Get the tall ladder out and climb up there and take some pics for yourself.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 10:01AM
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threeapples

I don't think we have thru wall flashing. I will ask the builder. Is it a problem if we don't? I assume it cannot be added now.

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 10:23AM
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threeapples

Do either of these photos indicate we have thru wall flashing? I don't have other, more detailed photos of the brick-to-shingle areas prior to the brick's installation:

    Bookmark   December 27, 2012 at 1:34PM
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