Help Choosing a Range

emcsqNovember 20, 2012

This is my first post, but I've been reading and gleaning so much information for these forums. I would love some opinions on gas or dual-fuel ranges.

We have a relatively small L-shaped kitchen that opens to a narrow family room/den. The cabinets, floors, and countertops are about 25 years old, so we are gutting it and starting over with hardwood floors, IKEA cabinets, and granite. The budget is fairly modest for a kitchen. We are doing all the labor ourselves (except granite).

Our plan is to get a Bosch dishwasher and either a Samsung or LG counter-depth refrigerator.

We are stumped on the range/microhood. We don't have enough space for a cooktop/wall oven, but I really love the look of the slide-in ranges. We have an electrician friend who can run electrical to convert to dual-fuel if we go that route.

The slide-in ranges that we've been most strongly considering are the Bosch Integra 700 HdI7282U and the GE Profile P2S975SEPSS. I know that Kitchen Aid also has one, but I haven't had a chance to research it yet. When we finalize the range, we wil probably just get the matching microhood with convection.

We lean toward the stainless cooktop surface of the GE Profile, but I like the overall look of the Bosch much better (I think the Bosch has a glass top). We have concerns about ease of cleaning and whether the quality truly justifies the ~$2500 price tags. Some reviews I've read about the Bosch mention cheap knobs (I called Bosch and they told me they've been replaced), a loud fan to cool the oven electronics, and problems with the door.

I'm getting very concerned and wondering if I should just go get the $1000 Frigidaire Gallery model at Lowe's and be done with it! I'm very much an amateur cook, but I would like to spend more time cooking and baking in my new I'd like a quality range for my money.

Thank you!

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If cost is a concern the NXR is the best choice by far.
$2000 or less shipped to the door and has everything you need in a stove, better than the GE for $500-$700 less.

We originally started looking for a stove in the $900 range, then decided none of those really fit our needs and ALL of them were so cheaply made it was pathetic.
We upped our price to $1600 and had virtually decided on a Kenmore for around that price.
Then one day was looking on here and saw someone talking about a NXR.
I looked around for one and found one in Florida for $1799.00 delivered.
For the extra $200 we got 10X the stove.
WAY better made, WAY better burners, actually had an infrared broiler, was all 100% stainless instead of mostly enamel with a little stainless, WAY better grates on top and racks in the oven. There was absolutely ZERO comparison between the $1600 Kenmore (on sale) VS the $1799 NXR.

So we obviously sprung for the extra $200 since we had already doubled our budget anyway an extra $200 for 10X the stove was a steal.

We have had ours almost 2 years now, no problems.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 12:15PM
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On the rangehoods, what is it that has you stumped? I assume that you've searched here and read the threads on the pros and cons of OTR units. (If not, search on "OTR"). Are you thinking you will need to match the brand of stove you choose? Strikes me that matching would be a concern only with that GE slide-in range's retro-Jetsons cat-eye styling on the oven door glass. Otherwise, I wouldn't worry about "matching" the OTR brand to the stove. You might want to consider the LG model with the "extenda vent" that slides out towards the front stove burners. (Search on "OTR + LG" to find threads discussing this unit.

Can you be more specific about why you like the slide-in stoves? Do you just like the look better than that of free-standing stoves? Maybe you are you thinking that the more-open cooktop means putting using large pans together? Maybe something else?

Will the stove butt tightly up against the backsplash? Will you have tile or granite behind the stove for a backsplash? Some slide-ins are designed so that their tops do not fit flush with a wall in order to allow you to fit a piece of countertop across the back, giving a more built-in look and preventing "stuff" from falling behind the stove. Some GE slide-in stoves (and I do not know if the GE Profile P2S975SEPSS is one of them) have a flat back so that the cooktop goes flat against the wall behind the stove. Except that it is not uncommon for kitchen walls to be a little bowed in older houses, so you may still have a gap in that event. For those kinds of situations, you may want to check on getting a back-guard acessory. These usually are a thin backsplash often about 4" tall and 1" thick and serve to keep things from spilling or rolling off the cooktop into the space behind the stove. Often, they extend the oven venting above the level of the burners so that your oven exhaust/convection is not blowing the flames of the rear burners. If memory serves, the GE profiels ones run around $100. (The GE Cafe ones are something like $300).

The Bosch stove looks like a nice unit except for the ceramic-glass on the cooktop surface. It may look spiffy in the store but, to me, it seems as though cleaning would be as problemmatic as with a glasstop-radiant-electric cooktop. You have to immediately wipe-up any sugary spills (those etch the glass surface) and will have the same razor-blade scraping and cerama-brite work.

Which $1k Frigidaire are you looking at? When I was shopping for a stove a couple of months ago, I looked at the FGGF3056KF which seemed like a lot of stove for the money. As I recall, it had two big burners (17k-btu-hr and 15k-btu-hr), a griddle burner and griddle top, and claimed to have third-element convection in the oven (so-called "true-convection.") Apparently, there is a 120v oven heating element wrapping the convection fan. (Usually, you need an electric oven to get that feature). My experience with third element convection (on my previous stove, a GE dual fuel) was that the third element was handy if you regularly bake multiple sheets of cookies but, judging from my experience with convection in my present gas stove, does not make a noticeable difference over a plain convection fan for other kinds of baking and roasting. (Some personal preferences led me to pass on this stove. While I recognize the advantages of a black cooktop, I just do not care for the look. I wanted my biggest burners in front but this has one right front and one at left rear. I do not care for griddle burners in the middle of my cooktop nor the smaller-sized griddles that come with these stoves.)

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 1:28PM
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I just noticed Nunya's post, and will add a couple of other comments.

Nunya has the LG OTR unit that I mentioned and he has posted on its use.

I also wound up buying an NXR. Got mine from (with the great no-questions absolute refund on return policy). It is basic, pro-style stove with a very high on bang-for-the-buck ratio if you are interested in that kind of stove. It is not for everybody. For example, it does not have a self-cleaning oven function which will be a showstopper for some. Most vendors are currently charging the same price as Coscto, $1999 delivered to your curb. If you do consider an NXR, be careful with the layout of your new base cabinets and countertop. Most slide-in and freestanding stoves are 29 3/4" to 29 7/8" wide but the NXR is one of the few stoves that is a true 30" wide.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 1:42PM
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Thank you both for taking the time to comment! Perhaps your ears were burning this morning because after posting this thread yesterday, I ended up spening about two hours this morning reading about the NXR. We are Costco members, and I'd say the NXR is definitely a strong contender for us.

I started focusing on slide-ins because I think it more closely mimics the look of the high-end, pro-style ranges (I didn't know about NXR when I started). I also think it would help things to stay "cleaner" since the range lip slides over the granite.

I started looking a dual-fuel because I thought it would bake better, and I wanted to eliminate the extra vent/grate that is in the center of the GE Profile gas rangetop. But after reading some more GW threads, I am more comfortable with baking with a convection gas range (like the NXR).

Neither of us love the look of the black glass-top on the Bosch, but when I went searching for dual-fuel slide-in ranges, it always seemed to come back to Profile and Bosch.

I went back to the appliance store today and looked at KA in addition to Profile, Bosch, and GE Cafe. KA is out because it has the porcelain top, which I found difficult to keep clean. The manager at the appliance store was really pushing GE over Bosch, especially Cafe which has a big Black Friday rebate. I was surprised to find that he did not think particularly well of Bosch, so I am assuming they get a big commission with GE packages. I do like the look of the Cafe over the Profile, but oddly enough, it is not available as a slide-in unit.

My head is spinning a bit from too much appliance research, so I apologize if I am rambling here. Maybe I should just close by asking how difficult it is to clean the NXR oven? Do you just use the foaming oven cleaners in the store? How often?

I will also try to post a layout of our kitchen later to see if anyone can help us find another place to put a microwave. If we can't, we will look closely at Nunya's LG microwave. I kind of wanted a convection microwave since we won't have a second oven, but I realize there are trade-offs and sacrificies to be made.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 5:55PM
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I really like our LG Microwave, I think the "Warming" feature more than makes up for any convection.
It is great to keep things piping hot until every thing is ready to serve. It uses Radiant heat, not microwave.

We have had our NXR almost 2 years, I think I have used oven cleaner 3x so far, I use a far amount of aluminum foil so really the only thing I get to clean is just the bubbling/popping grease type stuff.
Oven cleans rather easily.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2012 at 6:48PM
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>>>"how difficult it is to clean the NXR oven?Do you just use the foaming oven cleaners in the store?As I have posted elsewhere about "myself cleaning" of the NXR oven, it has not yet been particularly difficult. YET. We will have to see how it goes after Thanksgiving and some additional roasting kinds of festivities. My oven gets regular weekly steaming when I bake bread, and it seems to work similarly to the steam cleaning features that are appearing in Samsung and GE induction stoves and various models of stoves from Whirlpool and its sub-brands, Maytag and Kitchenaid. See the link at the bottom of this post for some recent discussions, including mine.

I have not yet used any of the store bought products such as Affresh or Fume Free Easy Off.

..." I do like the look of the Cafe over the Profile, but oddly enough, it is not available as a slide-in unit."Ummm, when I looked at the GE Cafe stoves back in August, all of them were just like slide-ins even though GE calls them "free-standing. Like slide-ins, they have no backsplash. (You can buy a backguard, though, to keep stuff from rolling off the top and going behind the stove).

A stove labeled as "slide-in" is aimed at a different look, at least the ones I saw recently including GE Profile models. The cooktops on the official slide-ins have 1/2" lips on the right and left sides so that the cooktop overhangs the adjoining counters. If you have your counters at exactly the correct height (or get filler strips for any gaps), this overlapping lip makes the stove look a bit more built-in.

The Cafe stoves do not have the overhanging cootop lips and just butt up against the counter edges. In that sense, the set-up is similar to the NXR's and would "mimic the look of high-end, pro-style ranges" in that way.

>>>"I wanted to eliminate the extra vent/grate that is in the center of the GE Profile gas rangetop.Are you taking about that middle (fifth) burner for the griddle on the GE Profile and Cafe stoves? Or are you taking about the cooktop-level rear-mounted center oven vent?

>>>"...especially Cafe which has a big Black Friday rebate.When I was stove shopping at the end of August, the asking price of GE Cafe stoves was around $2800, although it was possible to negotiate that down to around $2600. (I was actually shopping for the Profile induction-slide in when a a salesman, whom I've known for decades, pointed me to the Cafe dual fuel as an alternative. As is apparent, I wound up buying the NXR rather than either GE range.) I see that the asking price for Cafe stoves recently went up by about $400 to about $3200. A really big rebtate could make them a more attractive buy. The dual fuel and gas Cafe stoves have something of a following here at GW and there are numbers of threads discussing them in detail.

Here is a link that might be useful: Have you gone from self-cleaning to manual clean oven?

    Bookmark   November 22, 2012 at 11:12AM
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On the Profile gas slide-in, the oven vent is on the cooktop surface. It isn't there on the dual-fuel version. I thought I'd read some reviews about the venting being really loud on the gas model.

I know the Cafe resembles the slide-in look. I just don't like way the rear vent looks. I did see the backguard while looking at the GE website this morning, and I think that makes it a possibility. The appliance sales staff never mentioned the backguard yesterday, even though I explained my aversion to the vent appearance. I'm wondering if they even know about it.

It might turn out that the NXR is very close in price to the Cafe. I'm leaning toward the NXR, but in all fairness, I haven't thoroughly researched the Cafe yet. More work to be done here...

    Bookmark   November 22, 2012 at 12:19PM
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For the GE Cafe backguard:

If the Cafe had been close to the NXR price, I likely would have given it more consideration because I like electric convection ovens and self-cleaning. Also, where the Profile stove has a warming drawer, the Cafe has a "baking drawer" which can heat to 450F. (It runs on a 120v circuit, so it functions more like a countertop oven.) That functionality seemed kind of appealing.

However, with the backguard, the Cafe would have been $800 over my budget even with Labor Day sales prices at places like AJ Madison. I had the same problem with the GE slide-in induction stove that I preferred. For me, with my budget, it wound up being a choice between the features and trade-offs of the pro-style all-gas NXR and the features and trade-offs of a couple of sub-$2k freestanding induction stoves.

For OTRs matching the Cafe and Profile stoves, my recollection was that GE offers a convection OTR mw and an an OTR Advantium in both product lines. They seemed expensive ($750 for one and $950 for the other) and had rather underpowered venting (only 300 CFM) which only covered the rear stove burners.

I know what you mean about the puzzle of fitting a mw into a small kitchen. I also have a small kitchen with an L shaped counter/cabinet arrangement that presented problems with locating a microwave. I considered the LG OTR but decided against it when I figured out that I could keep my 600 CFM range hood and hang a GE Spacesaver II MW from a side cabinet. That GE MW is not large, which means no "second oven" functions, but which leaves enough room to have a stand mixer on the counter beneath it. Also, I was less concerned about the second oven because I've got a gas bbq as well as a smoker-oven right outside my back door. (When used with a layer of quarry tiles, the gas bbq does a decent job of baking, rather like what you get with some of the now-fashionable "antique" gas stoves from the 1950s.) I'm not going to be using those alternatives when it gets to -20 here in the winter but I am using them this Thanksgiving when the temp will be around 40F.
You mentioned you would be using Ikea cabinets. My recollection is that Ikea has options for mixing and matching various sized boxes, so you may be able to add a mw shelf to your mix. That can give you a lot of flexibility in placing a full size MW someplace off the counters.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2012 at 2:15PM
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Oh, and it is not the oven venting that is loud on the GE stoves. At one point, there were some complaints about the little cooling fans used for venting the electronics, particularly (I think) for the front-panel controls on the slide-ins. (Think fans like on computer cases). What I recall from threads here at GW is that those noise problems were fixed last year.

Oven convection fans do make some noise. Some buyers apparently had particularly noisy and possibly defective fans. Beyond that, "noisy" is subjective. What may be okay to me may be annoyingly loud to somebody else. Some people find any convection fan noise to be too much.

On the NXR, the convection fan is noticeable. It does not seem loud or bothersome to me. Comparable to the lowest setting on a good range hood. About the same level as I get from my editing workstation when all the fans in the computer case are running. Enough to be heard but not enough to impinge on conversation. Un-noticeable when I do switch on the range hood.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2012 at 2:28PM
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