Attaching wood joists to steel Ibeam

finestraSeptember 19, 2011

We have a dilemma of using a steel ibeam vs using powerlams and columns in our basement. The span on either side of the beam with be 14 1/2 ft. In addition to the upcharge in materials for the steel beam and the cost of the crane to help install it, are there increased labor costs in using an steel Ibeam?

How do the wooden 2x10s get attached to the ibeam?

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brickeyee

"How do the wooden 2x10s get attached to the ibeam?"

Riding on the top is easiest.

Gravity takes care of the them just fine (and some blocking to hold their spacing).

They can also be cut to rest on the lower flange only (end of just cut to fit) but the beam design and joist sizing must take this into account.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2011 at 11:15AM
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worthy

For greater stability, some engineers on my projects have specified that the joists be toenailed into dimensional lumber that is bolted to the IBeam. I've used I beams up to 50 feet; these, too, required intermediate columns.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2011 at 11:37AM
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sierraeast

Out here it's typical to run the I-beam flush to the top of the stemwall and pressure treated sill plates bolted to the beam/stemwall. Joists/blocking fasten in to the sills.

"Gravity takes care of the them just fine (and some blocking to hold their spacing)".

Not out here in seismic world!

    Bookmark   September 19, 2011 at 11:53AM
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lzerarc

the span is only 14' and they don't want to do it with LVLs, or is the beam span much longer, but the 2x10s are only spanning 14'? If that is the case, I assume 12" oc spacing? 14' is pushing the limits for most wood species in a 2x10 at 14' anything over 12" spacing.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2011 at 4:48PM
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renovator8

Whoever is designing the steel beam should be designing the connections of the joists to the steel beam as well as the end connections of the steel beam, etc.

    Bookmark   September 19, 2011 at 7:29PM
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sierraeast

Out here by a licensed structural engineer who submits it to the building dept and stamped upon approval.

Back in the early eighties on my uncles build in PA, common practice was to attach the sill plate to the I-beam using 16d's partially nailed into the edge grain and bent over the top flange of the beam every 24" or so. Pure funk!

    Bookmark   September 19, 2011 at 10:10PM
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renovator8

The detail depends a lot on the depth of the steel beam and the height of the wood joists. In general, either the joists rest on the lower steel beam flange with modifications as required to stabilize the joists or the joists are supported by steel joist hangers that are secured to the top of the steel beam either on a nailer or welded directly to the steel.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2011 at 12:26PM
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brickeyee

"Not out here in seismic world! "

OP's location is unknown.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2011 at 4:08PM
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finestra

Thanks for the input. The structural engineer designed the load bearing. The architect said that the increase costs are associated only with the materials and the crane. The builder asserts that there are 5 extra days labor for attaching the joists to the steel Ibeam.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2011 at 11:46AM
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sierraeast

"The builder asserts that there are 5 extra days labor for attaching the joists to the steel Ibeam".

Sounds a litlle extreme. How big is the project and can you share any detailing of the joist to beam connects?

On basements, we always layed the beam in beam pockets in the foundation with the top flange flush with the top of the foundation and ran the joisting over the sill plates that ran over the beam/foundation. It leaves you dealing with the beam hanging down in the basement as a negative.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2011 at 12:33PM
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worthy

The builder asserts that there are 5 extra days labor for attaching the joists to the steel Ibeam.

LOL

I 've gotta remember that one!

Posters above have noted the three common methods of interfacing joists to I-Beams. Toenailing, hanging or simply resting joists on a 14' I-beam doesn't take five days!

The most extra man hours it has taken the various carpentry crews I've used to install steel I-Beams is, to be generous, four hours per house. And that's strictly for setting the beams in place as per plans and Code.

That includes the time to brace and support the beams, modify the pockets on the foundation walls and shim as necessary and match holes on the end of the beams to the studs in the piers. There may also be a requirement to weld the beams to the plates.

Check the engineer's specs against what the builder actually does. Or make a point to ask the building inspector to verify.

And a crane for a 14 ft. beam? Must be a two-man framing crew.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2011 at 12:52PM
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galore2112

>And a crane for a 14 ft. beam? Must be a two-man framing crew.

Depends on the beam. I installed a 20ft W18x55 in my basement, which would weigh 770 lbs for 14ft. Good luck lifting a 770 lbs beam without a crane...

5 days extra labor to attach the joists ?!? I second the LOL.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2011 at 7:08PM
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brickeyee

"Good luck lifting a 770 lbs beam without a crane... "

You hire a couple day laborers and use a pair of moving dillies.

My metal lath weighs over 1,200 pounds and I move it on a dolly all by myself, and rent a knock down engine hoist to lift it into place.

The head of my ill is around 900 pounds and needs to be lifted on top of the mill (the little 'seat' in the family room is for the head).

Some scaffolding in the family room and a chain hoist got it into position.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2011 at 7:26PM
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sierraeast

A little Roman ingenuity and then there's always the pyramids!

    Bookmark   September 21, 2011 at 7:50PM
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renovator8

The connections of joists to steel should be designed by the engineer not you or the contractor.

If you want a reasonable price for the work ask the GC to show you the competitive sub bids. If he is doing the work himself you should have fixed hourly rates for his forces and proof of the time taken or you will be buying him a new car.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2011 at 5:42AM
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