Kitchen remodel- appliance choices

joanieboettcherSeptember 23, 2012

Hi all,

We are hoping to start demo on our kitchen in November. I found this forum about a month ago and have been reading/ learning all I can about the different appliances I will need in our remodel. Our kitchen is original to 1967. Our house is located in an area where here are homes valued from $90,000 to multimillion (a block away.) our house is closer to the $300,000 range. Bottom line, I don't want to over do it, but my hubby and I like to cook and I love baking and we would like h best bang for our buck. Hope that is enough of a back story to start.

So, if pushed to select appliances today, because of current rebates/financing options, I would choose:

Refrigerator: Bosch B26FT70S for $2500

Dishwasher: HBL5460UC for $1750

Cooktop: Wolf CT30G/S for $1800

Single oven: Bosch HBL5460UC 30"

Convection Steam Oven: Wolf $3500

My kitchen is small. At first glance, it isn't too small until you take the tape measure out and start placing cabinets and appliances. I mention this because I selected a small cooktop and the two ovens.

I like to can vegetables and my husband is itching to use his wok on a more powerful cooktop that our current Amana. Are there better options that would meet our neds and still hold to $10,000 or less? Would we regret any of these choices? I realize any manufacturer can produce a lemon or an outstanding appliance on any given day.

You all are amazing and I look forward to a reply.

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Under dishwasher you provided a Bosch oven model number.

I don't think you would regret any of those choices if that is what you ended up buying.

But there is one appliance I would definetly replace; the Wolf CT30G/S with BlueStar RBCT304BSS. Not only more powerful but more efficient. It will concentrate more of the heat directly to the bottom of the pan unlike the Wolf where most of the heat goes out,up,and around the pan. This results in much more even heat on the pan surface. And it is a bit cheaper to boot. Moderate overflow spills are easier to clean on Wolf but not major or minor.

Standard convection oven budget $1750 and steam oven budget $3500. Will you be using the steam oven twice as often as the standard oven?

The fridge. It looks like it is almost the model number for the SS freestanding Bosch French Door fridge. Not bad but not my favorite. Don't buy this fridge thinking you are getting German engineering or German manufacturing excellence. This fridge is made by Daewoo in Mexico for Bosch using a standard South Korean design. I would go for Samsung here. In Deutschland hergestellt cost a bit more money.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 4:30AM
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Thank you Deeageaux,
Your feedback is helpful. I have been trying to figure out whether I need the steam convection oven or not. Need is probably a strong word, as who needs any appliance? Still, it would be fun to make crusty rolls and breads, to easily sterilize my canning supplies, and reheat yesterday's meals in a palatable manner. But $3500 worth? Your point is well taken.

The dishwasher is one of my most stressful selections. We have gone through three since moving here 16 years ago. I don't want to replace another after this remodel at least for another 16-20 years. Ha ha!
In your opinion, would the Bosch SHE55M15UC $600 do a good job? I am looking for a quiet machine that cleans well and, of course, is very reliable. Right now I am hand washing more than not...

I found the Bluestar cooktop locally for $1600! Thank you so much! I didn't even look before because I thought it wasn't obtainable.

Refrigerator: the Samsung website was less than helpful in finding counter depth refrigerators. A salesperson told me that the RFG237AARS $2400 was the only one. That is hard to believe. I would rather not have a water/ice dispenser on the door.

Wall ovens: do you think i would be better served by the Electrolux EW30E65GS $3300?

This remodel is already estimated to be double over budget and nothing has been done. :( I want to be fiscally responsible but be very happy with the end result. I have much to consider.

Thank you again!

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 12:12PM
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Need is probably a strong word, as who needs any appliance?

I hear ya. But when your unnecessary luxury appliance budget exceeds your refrigerator and dishwasher budget combined I gotta scratch my head a bit.

In your opinion, would the Bosch SHE55M15UC $600 do a good job?

I think it is a good machine. I would budget for a new machine in 10 years. I think only Miele is a 20+ year machine. It starts at $900 for a black or white Classic.

YMMV. I have read posts from three angry Miele owners on these boards the last three years that think their dishwashers were a POS. But as a percentage that is less than any other dishwasher. As soon as I post this I know there may be a poster who claims to own a Bosch dishwasher for over 25 years without any problems :)


Bosch has ice/water in-door and is full depth not counter-depth.

Samsung has the small FD model, Samsung RF197AC. It has neither water/ice in-door. I believe it is their top selling model worldwide and extremely good reliabilty but kinda small.

If you want "American" size counter-depth fridge without ice water in-door then maybe KitchenAid Architect Series II KFCS22EV.

Wall ovens: do you think i would be better served by the Electrolux EW30E65GS $3300?

Yes, and now Electrolux is made in the USA to boot.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 8:13PM
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Thanks! I am tranisitioning between kitchen of my dreams and kitchen of my budget. I am sure my hubbie is scratching his head, too! Thank you for helping me down from the clouds. I will check out your recommendations in a day or two. I think I smell my brains overheating. Ha ha!

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 9:54PM
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I just retread your entry. Why do you think the refrigerator and dishwasher are so important? I intend to spend more on cooking/baking devices because that is what I love.

The refrigerator preserves, so, that one is obvious. But, shouldn't I want the best cooking and baking machines that I can afford? Also, I know I may have over reached, but isn't it better to look for bargains in the better brands than just taking the going price for run of the mill brands? Again, every brand has weaknesses and strengths... I look forward to your response.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 10:12PM
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Well,. when we did our kitchen in 2006, we did not have a budget----We waited 35 years to redo it, bought the house new in Oct of 1975.

Waiting that long, we figured we would get what we wanted.

We bought the Electrolux oven, due to the fully gliding out racks that were "Smooooother then anything else on the market, (at that time)---only Electrolux offered them.

We also liked the large display and controls (that hide away when not in use) which I could read without my reading glasses---a test that most the other ovens failed.

The oven has been absolutely trouble free, is very quiet, (I can't hear the fan run), and temps have been spot on.
We follow a recipe and things come out perfect.

I can truthfully say, that after 6 years, there is NOT, a single oven in this world, I would rather have---even if said oven was 10 times the price of the Electrolux.

We also bought the Electrolux Speed oven and we are just as happy with that as the regular oven.

I did mess up on the cooktop, bought what was one of the most expensive and "Elaborate" "Conventional electric cooktops ever made, timers, bridging, controls for vent, lighting right in the cooktop etc etc etc---that succer died in less than 2 years and is now in the trash---replaced by Electrolux Induction cooktop---Love IT!!

We did "Splurge" money wise on a Miele Dishwasher as the top cutlery tray was a "Must Have" for us. The Miele has also been trouble free, washes great and is very quiet.

Soooooo, A long winded way of saying, You DON't have to buy the most expensive appliance to have your dream kitchen, We didn't (for the most part) and where we did, we got "Burned".

Good luck with your upcoming choices, with the exception of the cook top, I hope things work out for You as well as they have for us!


    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 10:31PM
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I almost forgot. Samsung does make a counter-depth French door without ice/water in-door. They just sell it exclusively to/through GE CAFE. Saw it, GE CAFE CFCP1NIZSS, at link below for $2145.66

But, shouldn't I want the best cooking and baking machines that I can afford?

In general that is my theology. I preach it almost daily here on GW Appliance forum but I think you may take it to it's Talibanist logical conclusion:) But I asked how often you will use it. I would not use a steam oven all that much but if you are going to give it heavy use then it becomes much more reasonable.

Why do you think the refrigerator and dishwasher are so important?

A good refrigerator is quiet,precise,and durable. But,IMO, it is very important to the overall look of your kitchen especially if you are not getting a range. It is going to be the biggest appliance in your kitchen and tends to dominate the room.

IMO any dishwasher above $450 or so cleans dishes well. Better dishwashers clean day old or two day old dishes better and baked on pots and pans best. And they do it quietly and efficiently.A good dishwasher not only removes the chore of cleaning dishes but also the PITA of handwashing not quite clean dishes after removing them from the dishwasher.

but isn't it better to look for bargains in the better brands than just taking the going price for run of the mill brands?

AMEN, Sister!

If you are willing to do the legwork and spend time on the computer searching for bargains that is the best possible choice.

I got my applainces one at a time over 18 months.

I got....

24" Gaggenau frezzer $1300
24" Gaggenau oven $1200
24" Liebherr fridge $800
24" Sharp MW drawer $499
24" Miele La Perla II $1669
42" Independent Hood w/ 1400 cfm blower $960
36" Captial Culinarian Self-Clean $5,000.

I made an omellete today and I am amazed at how evenly and quickly it cooked. Don't need to sear a porterhouse to appreciate a CC.

I toss in pots with burnt sauce on the sides,dirty dishwes without pre-rinsing,casseroles with burnt cheese and potatoes and am amazed when I open the door. All clean and I hardly could hear the DW working.

And it really makes me smile knowing I paid well below the UMRP,the luxury appliance floor price.

Here is a link that might be useful: GE Cafe FD

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 11:15PM
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I think the Electrolux oven is great bang for the buck. I have had mine 4 years and it heats up quickly, bakes evenly and we use it to dehydrate food and dry art projects.

I have had a Bosch 800 series dw for 4 years and my DIL has a Bosch 500 series dw for about a year and we both like them. It cleans everything burnt on. You do have to use a good detergent though. I like just throwing the silverware in the caddy and it all comes out clean.

I can too, and have used every thing in the way of burners over the years. The BS 22K burner might be an advantage in using a big canner but the simmer on all the burners of the Wolf might be a benefit while cooking things down if you do that kind of canning. It is hard to compare simmers because the BS does not list it in BTUs but people do not seem to complain about it. It is just one simmer burner though. The configuration of each is unique and it is a matter of your personal preference.

As to stirfrying, we can stirfry 1-2 lbs on our 15K btu burners but the more heat the better.
This is an interesting post about woking outside and what is a good amount of heat. Restaurants use anywhere from 125K on up but it takes awhile to learn that.

As far as cleaning I would look them over and see what you think would be easier to clean. I would read the use and care booklets online, and look at the terms of the warranty.

I would also consider what ventilation you plan to have if you plan to do high heat cooking.

I would have these comments about the post above.

But there is one appliance I would definetly replace; the Wolf CT30G/S with BlueStar RBCT304BSS. Not only more powerful but more efficient.

There is no scientific data on to say whether one is more efficient than the other.

It will concentrate more of the heat directly to the bottom of the pan unlike the Wolf where most of the heat goes out,up,and around the pan. This results in much more even heat on the pan surface.

Here is a picture of the two, and even if you account for some flare of the flame on a sealed burner primarily on the highest setting, the BS burners are considerably wider. You will have some flare of the BS as well at the highest settings. I would say that you could use a smaller pan easier on the Wolf burners than the BS. When you get to a larger pan, greater than 7 or 8 inches, the heat loss will be the same. It has been my experience that if you stand and put your hands to the side of pans on a Wolf burner, you will find you lose very little heat around the pan. If you want to capture more heat from a gas burner, conductive cookware with a "corrugated" bottom makes the biggest difference. Turbo Pot is an example of that. I recently bought a doufeu by Cousances. Cousances was bought out by Le Creuset many years ago but they had the idea for that type of interface with the burner back then. It came with ridges on the bottom for gas and flat for electric.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 12:54AM
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For your husband. This forum has quite about about wok cooking. This link has all the threads that Grace Young has posted in. Scroll down to her post in this thread, Home stir-frying with a wok, is it possible? Not enough BTU?

Here is a link that might be useful: Grace Young's posts

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 4:59PM
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KA and JA are high quality products. From fridge to dishwasher they get great reviews. Plus they don't break the bank. If you are interested in some technical info on those products, email me and I can get it for you. Even if you don't buy KA or JA comparing might be interesting.
Good luck!

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 3:35AM
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Buy what you like and can afford without going into debt. I might caution anyone about spending an extremely large amount of money on an entire kitchen full of high-end or TOL appliances in a home that is in the $300k price range.

If one plans to live there for the next 10 - 15 years with no chance of moving or being transferred, then go for it. If there might be a move in less time, the price of the home will not reflect the money spent in the appliances. IOW, the kitchen might be over-built and that investment may never be recouped. JMHO.

The average buyer won't recognize the brands, models, and capital investment. For example, I would not know or recognize half the high-end brands discussed here at GW, nor their relative value.

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 8:32AM
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Wekick: thank you for the link. We will certainly take this information into consideration as we choose our appliances.

Dodge59 and Cavimum: points well taken regarding TOL costs vs investment. This is partly why I started the thread. I want to balance my new toy purchases with reason.

That is where Wekick's info on wok cooking fits into the decision on the cooktop. Will we wok very often? If we do, can we do justice to the high BTUs and do we want to invest in the hood system to make it safe and to code?

I still want the convection steam oven, but will I use it enough to justfy its purchase as Deeageaux wondered? Your "Talabanist logical conclusion" comment was hilarious! I do get intense when I am excited and this remodel is both wearing and exciting.

I feel slightly better about the dishwasher decision. But, I wish I would never have seen the SZ refrigerators! I love the layout! I don't think it would be worth the cost unless I can find a deal.

Once our cabinet layout is set in stone (if that ever happens), then I can finalize the appliances. I agree that going into debt over this remodel is a foolish thing to do. I DO think that it is reasonable to balance the best i can afford with the best price i can find- and i am not ruling out scratch and dent.

I can not foresee the future- how long will we love in this house? No idea, but our second grandchild is to arrive in February. Guessing we are here for the long haul. I can't worry about over investing, because the remodel itself is causing us to over invest. We recognize and accept that, but we just don't want to go way overboard. We are holding to a price that we can live with- enough said. I love the thought that everyone puts into their posts! Thanks, I appreciate each and every thought.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2012 at 8:41PM
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We are in a similar situation as you, but building a new construction home. Our home price is around $365k in a neighborhood where home prices range from $330k - $1mil+. My wife and I both love to cook and these are ultimately the appliances we decided on and the prices we were quoted in our contract (not necessarily the lowest if shopped around online, but they include installation through our builder supplier). I do not see these appliances as being that out of line for the neighborhood and I personally don't care...we enjoy cooking and want to enjoy our kitchen!

CT36GS WOLF 36" NG Cooktop - $1939
EW30EW65GS Electrolux Double Oven - $2699
SHX55RL5UC Bosch Dishwasher - $859
NPH9-242 42" Vent-a-hood - $1425
KB6524PS Sharp Microwave Drawer - $729
EI24BC65GS Electrolux Beverage Center - $1239
LFC21776ST LG Refrigerator - $1849

It should be noted that this particular LG is also counter-depth with no ice or water on the door. Those were some specific requirements for us.

    Bookmark   October 2, 2012 at 5:16PM
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