Java and Windows 8

jerry_njJune 18, 2013

Recalling past concerns about Java and recalling some talking about living without Java (isn't it needed for full features on some websites? e.g., youtube?).

I have had a couple of issues with Java update on my Windows 8 machine and I wonder if there is general acceptance of using Java on Windows 8.

I searched on "java for windows 8" and didn't come up with any answers.

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owbist

I do not use Jave on my Win 8 confuser and have yet to find a need to install it, I use Youtube quite often with seemingly no ill effects.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2013 at 9:25AM
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jerry_nj

Thanks, I will uninstall Java and see if I miss it.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2013 at 11:22AM
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mikie_gw

fwiw, Oracle is supposed to release a updated version of java today with 40 fixed vulnerabilities.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2013 at 11:48AM
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jerry_nj

I just uninstalled Java 6 update 31, bet that was old, I had been ignoring update calls for sometimes, mainly because they never completed.

    Bookmark   June 18, 2013 at 11:54AM
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SnidelyWhiplash

To be sure I have this straight - you've been using a version of Java that's over a year old and you've been ignoring update messages (daily or weekly?).

According to Wikipedia, there have been over 100 security fixes since the version you cite.

You did nothing further with it. And then - you woke up this morning, decided Java was a security problem and you uninstalled it.

Nice.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 1:37AM
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jerry_nj

Nice? Indeed.

This copy of Java is that ended up on my W8 machine when I purchased it and activated it, about 3 months ago, I'd have to look to be sure on the date, as you might already suspect.

I made a post on this forum a few weeks back saying that every time I clicked on the Java update interrupt and told it to install, nothing happened. It was suggested to me back then that I uninstall and reinstall to get the latest. Frankly I don't recall what I did, but if I did uninstall and re-install the installation from Java's web site is no more than a few weeks old. Yesterday I did the uninstall and left it that way.

There is a history, here on this forum, of detractors of Java and I believe many of the faithful have uninstalled it and are getting by fine.

So, is it W8, Java, or Jerry? I'll point the finger at Java, but as I never had the install problems on XP or W7, W8 is strong second bet. But it remains a possibility it is just my incompetence, in which case I'll use my advanced age as an excuse - we all like to blame someone/thing else, look at Washington. There ignorance seems to be the most popular answer, but that is the same as incompetence in my thinking.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 5:05PM
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SnidelyWhiplash

Windows PC= Like a car with a manual transmission and gauges for every imaginable system condition and function.

Apple PC= One with automatic transmission, no gauges or even warning lights, it drives you to the repair shop if something needs attention or it just fixes itself.

Unfortunately, Win PC users can't take a hands-off approach, some engagement is required (You can't keep driving in 1st gear and ignore the Temp gauge that tells you the engine is overheating). Also unfortunately, many novice users develop a Chicken Little paranoia, get spooked by anything different that happens and don't know who or what to believe. They respond by ignoring apparent problems and hope they will go away on their own.

Some understanding and involvement is needed. Take a class, buy a book, or identify a friend or family member to help you.

Start with this - Windows and other program updates are frequently security driven. Don't think about whether to do updates - do them all immediately at your first opportunity.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 7:16PM
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mikie_gw

So now you have got me wondering -
Does the Google car automatically fix itself ?

Here is a link that might be useful: youtube google car test

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 7:38PM
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jerry_nj

Windows updates are set for automatic, and they just happen the most notice I have is when it takes longer to boot-up because of update installations that started automatically. I used to refuse auto update and just checked for Updates every day or two.

As for reading a book or taking a course or asking I "friend" I have chosen the latter, that's why I post questions/problems here.

Most other important programs, such as Anti Virus and Malware are updated automatically under control of the supplier - but I sometimes ask for an update "just in case".. and I usually get one : )

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 7:46PM
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SnidelyWhiplash

mikie -

Yes, the Google car does fix itself. And as an added bonus, your service records are backed up automatically to an offsite location to insure safekeeping. The NSA has generously provided use of its network and systems for this purpose.

jerry, sounds like you have many good practices. Much as I value the advice given by some of the participants here, I wouldn't treat this forum as a substitute resource for more active involvement on your part. A class, a book, or getting help from more experienced people you know will allow you to better identify what you don't know.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 8:00PM
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owbist

Jerry hold down the ALT and CTRL buttons and tap Delete once to bring up the Task manager. Now click on the various tabs at the top and see just how much 'stuff' we have running on Windows 8.

On my Windows 7 confuser I have 52 processes running, on Win 8 they have made it more confusing it seems but there are a lot of processes running.

As an example of what to run or not to run I had hpmon running but my computers are home builds with no HP parts. However my printer and scanner are HP. As both are older I definitely do not want that software being updated because HP has not provided updated drivers for Win 7 and 8 and they are working as they are from the original DVDs.

Too many vendors assume their product should run kin the background, Acrobat Reader is an excellent example, it is set to run but how often does the homeowner/user need it to read a PDF file?

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 8:14PM
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jerry_nj

Task Manager show 44 processes running plus 23 Windows processes. Under the first there are several Malwarebytes processes, and as I have the free version with isn't checking in real time - I think that is a feature of the paid version. So why is it taking up running status resources? Just one example there are others that I do not "feel" need to be running.

So, do you kill or otherwise remove the unwanted running processes - there may be some hidden risk.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 10:23PM
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SnidelyWhiplash

Yikes! (now I'll use the dreaded exclamation point)

Jerry, PLEASE ignore the task manager. There is (in my opinion) no need whatsoever for any casual user to refer to it. Killing running processes is never needed and can cause problems.

Owbist, that wasn't a very good suggestion.

    Bookmark   June 19, 2013 at 10:43PM
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owbist

Snidely I never suggested Jerry leap into the task manager and start changing things with careless abandon! (Exclamation point) No one should make any changes in there unless they are confident about the resulting action.

Jerry decided his machine is not as speedy as it used to was so by suggesting he looks in there to see just what is happening. You know as I do that new computers are speedy but tend to slow quite quickly once we start adding programs. From past posts by Jerry I also think he is a very cautious person who will make no rash move without going over it carefully weighing the implications.

I do think your caution to me is good, it will make impetuous lurkers think twice before they go there and cause havoc.

I also believe in offering as much help as possible to encourage users to better understand the inner workings of their computer and possibly fixing it themselves rather than going to the local techie with what might well be a simple fix

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 6:46AM
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jerry_nj

Thanks, I have been using the "Task Manager" (using alt/cont/del) since Windows 95. I can't recall any longer what I did with Windows 3. whatever, but up until the days of Vista I worked at a company that supplied my computer needs including technical support. Over this period I have used the TM, as owbist, suggests to see what was eating resources, and yes to KILL ! (caps and exclamation). This has to my recall resulted in only the subject running process shutting down, and being quit willing to run the next time I activated it.

I am reasonably cautious, indeed that is one aspect of my coming to this forum for advice. I think I understand enough to not follow bogus advice, has there ever been a problem here with people posting advice that is likely to cause harm?

I have on occasions had difficult problems, only a year ago with an old Gateway running XP, and received detailed instructions on how to obtain running information and then posting that. I forget now who the generous person was, I think it was not you, obwist. This resulted in the old Gateway running better then within a week I cracked the screen. Still worked but not much fun to read... thus I became an owner of a new Gateway with W8 which has been the subject of my question of late.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 9:23AM
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owbist

Jerry wrote:- has there ever been a problem here with people posting advice that is likely to cause harm?

Not to deliberately cause harm. Sometimes we have differing opinions regarding actions to take, neither need be right or wrong just our interpretation of the facts given. Also any poster who has been around for a while giving solid advice could/should be trusted. To me this is the beauty of any forum, any wrong information can be corrected by another poster.

In the last couple of weeks we seem to have a couple of new names offering assistance and giving solid answers, always nice to see new people arrive with different perspectives.

If anyone is unsure of help offered they should simply wait a day before acting so if there is an issue any other poster can pop up and suggest why advice might not be right. This thread is a very good example where Snidely suggested my telling you about task manager was wrong.

With regard to lurkers he was correct but no where did I suggest anyone make changes.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 11:56AM
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SnidelyWhiplash

Jerry,

I agree, I haven't seen any intentional mischief, but I have seen a lot of passing on of well-intentioned but misinformed comments. Just in the last few days, there's been:

-the person having problems (that appeared to be browser related but they didn't know that) who was going to reboot their router to see if that would help

-a person who thought a well known financial services site was down because the stock market was having a bad day

Without intending to be critical, I understand these people are frustrated and don't understand. However, some will read these comments and register what they think to be thoughtful cause and effect. Misunderstandings or common fables pop up here from time to time as advice, and when that happens and someone else interjects a different but more likely to be correct assessment, I wouldn't characterize that as a difference of opinion.

    Bookmark   June 20, 2013 at 4:42PM
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DA_Mccoy

In all the these years I have never seen any intentional negative advice. However, I do see where members have directly cut and paste material word for word from a Google search without site source credit as if it was their own work product. Sometime this posting is material from a questionable source, dated, or not version specific.

I don't think it is demonic effort, but rather one of two instances, legitimately trying to help; or trying to present themselves in a more contributing light than they really can be.

DA

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 8:22AM
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jerry_nj

The subject of misuse/maluse of this site was not the issue of this post, it seemed to be that there was concern about giving advice to some unable to properly use it. This made me wonder what about advice that is intentionally damaging but is too subtle for the average seeking help to realize.

I come here for help, not to give help. Still I find occasions, usually based on help received here, that I can expand on a solution to a problem.

Thanks to all,

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 12:22PM
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DA_Mccoy

Jerry,

Historically a thread here has always been allowed to take on a life of its own as long as the original topic has been addressed or is being addressed. On some occasions the secondary theme will get referred to establishing its own thread. This is most often due to the complexity of the derivation.

Your last post is well shared, and received here.

DA

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 2:54PM
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